Variance Changes

[Rogean]

I'd like to clarify some misinformation that was provided with the latest patch, starting with the lack of a patch note and then an error in confirmation on my part.

Back when we were discussing changes about extending the window of a mob's spawn when it fell within the last 15%, I wrote some code to show as an example. Turns out that code ended up staying in and I had forgotten about it, and it went live with the latest compile.

So...

Patch Note: Respawn timers that fall within the last 15% of a window will now be extended by a random amount up to 24 additional hours, repeating accumlatively until the window is under 85% for total potential spawn time. This currently applies to all mobs who have any variance at all, but will be adjusted next patch to only include mobs that have a minimum base spawn of 2 days or more.

[Lazortag]

Why was this solution favored over this one:



Here is what nilbog and I are currently planning/designing/brainstorming:

We will be cutting the variance in half on the existing raid spawns.

We will be implementing an FTE notice of some sort, whether this is an emote or some type of message.

We will be implementing a simulated patch day respawn. Here is how it will work.

The server will pick one day of each week (Random 1 to 7, Sunday through Saturday). It will then pick a random time. I will not disclose the range of the possible times, but it will only include afternoon and evening hours, so as to give the best chance for the most people to benefit from it.

A serverwide message will go off indicating that the simulated patch day respawn has or will be taking effect shortly. All raid mobs will (either immediately, delayed, or spanned, tbd) respawn.

These respawns will NOT affect the normal respawn times of the mob. For example. If Talendor was killed on Monday, and on death the server determined he would spawn again on Sunday. A simulated patch day occurs on Thursday, his death on Thursday will not reset his scheduled respawn time on Sunday.
Exception: If the mob's spawn time is scheduled to occur within (To be determined, probably either 6 or 12 hours) of the simulated patch day respawn, it will calculate a new spawn time for the mob as it would had he been killed normally, when he dies from the simulated respawn.


..when one is almost the complete opposite of the other, and when the overwhelming majority of players supported reducing the variance?

[Shinko]

Yeah this code is good but it needs the windows cut Down or mobs with 92 hours just is to much when a mobs in window for 5 days (116 or so hours)

[Shinko]

Wait someone do the math what the maximum time a mob could spawn ...

[Rogean]

Yeah this code is good but it needs the windows cut Down or mobs with 92 hours just is to much when a mobs in window for 5 days (116 or so hours)

It's not so much if you aren't sitting around on it's spawn point waiting for it.


Hiyyyoooo

[Frieza_Prexus]

I wonder if someone's going to take a hit out on me now.

:|

[Sirken]

the idea (and i could be wrong, Rogean please correct me if i am) is that if the variance is shortened it will increase the # of players poopsocking.

whereas, with the variance having a chance to reset, players are less likely to poopsock knowing it could be 6 hrs up to 30hrs until pop.

ultimately it's up to the players to decide how they wish to spend their time, you will always have guilds using trackers, but i expect to see a lot less of 100 people on VS or on trak or on any other raid mob spawn spot, because it adds a higher sense of randomness to when the pop will happen

<3

[Ele]

ultimately it's up to the players to decide how they wish to spend their time, you will always have guilds using trackers, but i expect to see a lot less of 100 people on VS or on trak or on any other raid mob spawn spot, because it adds a higher sense of randomness to when the pop will happen

<3

Never underestimate the power of pixels. :o

[Telron]

It's not so much if you aren't sitting around on it's spawn point waiting for it.


Hiyyyoooo

https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQ03MD8-9n0yoPF9RK-CMXjzLmLXC-lYeizw9oklJsO7CPibpCg

[Thulack]

It's not so much if you aren't sitting around on it's spawn point waiting for it.


Hiyyyoooo

I think he is trying to say you guys brought this on yourselves. Enjoy :)

[Apeople]

seems like an effective solution

[Raavak]

I love it. I utterly hate poopsocking, and hate feeling totally compelled to do it in order to compete, because once one group starts doing it you have to get there and do it yourself if you want a shot.

[Jenni D]

brilliant :)

[KotBK]

1: This isn't classic
2: There will always be poopsockers with the current state of the gaming generation
3: This takes more away from the raid scene meaning it breaks it more than helps it

P.S. Nilbog needs to grab the reigns as it appears he is doing with his other thread making the complete revamp more towards classic to eliminate this nonsense that has no place in the game. Making negative changes based on a select few ruins the chances/fun for those who have been playing nice and avoid taking part in any idiocy that leads to high GM involvement.

[Shinko]

It just means longer for us to track (more dkp for trackers) it really only stop to 200 people pooping but guild still will be killin juggs and vs room when they have nothing better to do.

[Shinko]

Are the window changes and weekly respaws and fte shouts still in works?

[Tenlaar]

I have to say, I don't really understand how a longer variance is going to hurt the people who have already shown they have absolutely nothing better to be doing than sitting there accomplishing nothing.

[dragonfists]

So there is a 15% chance of the window extending 24 Hours if spawn was in last 15% of window, plus if it did extend 24 hours and then again fell into the last 15% another 24, and so on and so on until spawn was in the first 85% of window?

Example:

Trak window 3/15 12pm to 3/17 12am
-Script selects 3/16 9pm and adds 24 hours, window extended to 3/18 12am, script re-calculates window from 3/16 9pm to 3/18 12am and picks new spawn. If it selects 3/17 9PM, it adds again 24 hours, new window 3/19 12am and picks new spawn?

Basically what I'm wondering is when the spawn is re-calculated where is it basing the start of the new window on? I'm assuming the new 24hours + whatever 15% portion was in the final window?



Patch Note: Respawn timers that fall within the last 15% of a window will now be extended by a random amount up to 24 additional hours, repeating accumlatively until the window is under 85% for total potential spawn time. This currently applies to all mobs who have any variance at all, but will be adjusted next patch to only include mobs that have a minimum base spawn of 2 days or more.

[Waedawen]

I have to say, I don't really understand how a longer variance is going to hurt the people who have already shown they have absolutely nothing better to be doing than sitting there accomplishing nothing.

Had to read way too far to read this.

Cretins gonna cretin.

[Rogean]

P.S. Nilbog needs to grab the reigns

Nilbog is the founder and co-manager of the project. All major decisions are discussed between him and I, and ultimately he has the final word. He doesn't need to grab anything.

[williestargell]

It does not help. The poopsocking will commence before the last 15%, and once started it will not stop.

Give us more server repops if you want to see people "race" and split the mobs up beyond just 2-3 guilds.

The FTE message...what if the mob is agro'd and doesn't "attack" because the person agro'd it is out of range (i.e. they nuked it and ran to pull it).

Oh....and if you want to improve the raid scene....ADD VELIOUS

[Lostprophets]

I have to say, I don't really understand how a longer variance is going to hurt the people who have already shown they have absolutely nothing better to be doing than sitting there accomplishing nothing.

Only thing it's hurting is every other Raiding guild wanting to establish this content but TMO/FE...

Simulated repops, or patch day has already concluded that TMO/FE aren't the only ones that get targets...why make windows more painful for the underdogs that don't have the time effort or numbers to wait longer?

Maybe we could...take another stab at a GM enforced Rotation? :)

I was around back when it was in play and now with the number of guilds this seems like one of the best options rather than poop sock competitions... that's all that the variance is composing currently, denying the entire server of shots at epic mobs.

[baramur]

I thought the idea was. To improve the raid scene not break it more. All this basically does is add more time to variance. I like the idea of random add of time, but couldn't we have done this, while cutting the variance in half. I think all this does is give an even bigger advantage to Fe and tmo on AOL raid targets.

[baramur]

Just a thought why not make random raid timer variances. For instance when trak dies his varience is rolled like 18 to 36 hours, then a second roll determines what time in this varience. This would make it then impossible to know when exactly window closes.

[KotBK]

then an error in confirmation on my part.

Back when we were discussing changes about extending the window of a mob's spawn when it fell within the last 15%, I wrote some code to show as an example. Turns out that code ended up staying in and I had forgotten about it, and it went live with the latest compile.


Nilbog is the founder and co-manager of the project. All major decisions are discussed between him and I, and ultimately he has the final word. He doesn't need to grab anything.

I am aware of his position, however it seems by this circumstance human nature took its course and an error was made by your own admission in which he necessarily didn't sign off on the change from the context given. It would also seem that from the post that Nilbog made later regarding FTE shouts/raid scene that this error will be corrected as more than just this aspect discussed here will be changed or revamped within the raid scene come next patch update. Given that information i would assume this problem will be short lived as the conversation behind the scenes continues.

[Vandy]

Thanks for even less chance of me ever seeing a raid target. You guys should really add a disclaimer to the front page letting people know before they get hooked that if they want to participate in the raiding scene that they are going to have to quit their jobs.

[YendorLootmonkey]

This only helps guilds willing to park their entire primary, secondary, or tertiary raid force -- made up of characters they have been buying up for months -- at a target (because that's what constitutes mobilization nowadays) while they play 3rd/4th alts.

At least before, if non-poopsock guilds knew the mob was short in window, it wouldn't be unheard of to hang out for a bit and add to the competition that some of these guilds have allegedly been yearning for.

Doesn't exactly level the playing field. All you've done is given the mob to the guild with the most IP Exemptions so they can log in their raid force the quickest. Not sure if that was the intent here.

[Sweetbaby Jesus]

Red doesn't have variance. Happier than ever that I made the switch!

[Servellious]

POOP SOCKING COCKBLOCKING

[kazima441]

This won't stop poop socking. TMO and FE are just going to sock to the 15% hour now and then rinse/repeat.

Stop trying to break already broken content and give us velious -- 14 months now? Another 30 raid targets as opposed to us all pissing on each other for the same 5 we've been beating on for 2 years now might be a better solution.

We're all very grateful for the server, but anything worth doing is worth doing correctly.

Don't call this classic if it isn't... Was removing the compass because it wasn't classic more appropriate than this?

And, stop bitching about other guilds not being able to break the scene. This server has seen more rising and falling of the titans than live servers ever did. It takes the right people at the right time and the right amount of dedication and drive. Whether you tell yourselves you can do it or you cannot do it, you're right.

[Mortiiss]

This only helps guilds willing to park their entire primary, secondary, or tertiary raid force -- made up of characters they have been buying up for months -- at a target (because that's what constitutes mobilization nowadays) while they play 3rd/4th alts.

At least before, if non-poopsock guilds knew the mob was short in window, it wouldn't be unheard of to hang out for a bit and add to the competition that some of these guilds have allegedly been yearning for.

Doesn't exactly level the playing field. All you've done is given the mob to the guild with the most IP Exemptions so they can log in their raid force the quickest. Not sure if that was the intent here.

Sorry they have more characters? Start leveling more up! Or buy some with plat.

I approve of these changes and I think it will get rid of socking. I feel bad for the guilds without that many characters, though.

[Scowlie]

If the goal was to prevent poopsocking, I don't really see this changing much. The problem isn't that 100+ players are waiting ingame for a boss to spawn, it's that everyone has 2-3+ characters sitting at every target. When VS spawns, there are usually only 5-10 people ingame. Within 5 minutes, there will easily be 80-100+.

Just like Kunark was a temporary solution to the content problems in Classic, Velious will only be a bandaid. I would have to imagine that a lot of players will come back for Velious and there will be more raiding guilds than there are now.

[Lazortag]

Before this thread devolves more than it has, I just want to give my perspective on the new changes. Like all other threads about variance, people will use this to (a) promote whatever agenda they have (rotations, removing variance entirely, tokens, whatever), (b) trashtalk big guilds for having no lives/being unemployed/etc., (c) ridicule smaller guilds for being unskilled/unprepared/socialist, just to give a few examples. Because of this, it's easy to dismiss people on either side as repeating the same tired arguments, and of being biased because of whichever type of guild they belong to. So here's my no-nonsense post about why the new changes are bad. Realistically, this will change very little - there's only a small chance of the windows being increased for a given raid mob, and when they are, the increase isn't by that much. I think the problem is that several months ago there was a very productive discussion about how to go forward with the raid scene, and most people were very supportive of the proposed changes (which you can read here: )


Here is what nilbog and I are currently planning/designing/brainstorming:

We will be cutting the variance in half on the existing raid spawns.

We will be implementing an FTE notice of some sort, whether this is an emote or some type of message.

We will be implementing a simulated patch day respawn. Here is how it will work.

The server will pick one day of each week (Random 1 to 7, Sunday through Saturday). It will then pick a random time. I will not disclose the range of the possible times, but it will only include afternoon and evening hours, so as to give the best chance for the most people to benefit from it.

A serverwide message will go off indicating that the simulated patch day respawn has or will be taking effect shortly. All raid mobs will (either immediately, delayed, or spanned, tbd) respawn.

These respawns will NOT affect the normal respawn times of the mob. For example. If Talendor was killed on Monday, and on death the server determined he would spawn again on Sunday. A simulated patch day occurs on Thursday, his death on Thursday will not reset his scheduled respawn time on Sunday.
Exception: If the mob's spawn time is scheduled to occur within (To be determined, probably either 6 or 12 hours) of the simulated patch day respawn, it will calculate a new spawn time for the mob as it would had he been killed normally, when he dies from the simulated respawn.


The main change to the raid scene would be simulated repops - I think most of us can agree that even if the windows were a billion years long, it wouldn't matter because what casual guilds (and pretty much all guilds) want most is regular repops. But halving the windows was also a big change, and this new change is mutually exclusive with that. It's as if everything that was said about the variance creating barriers to competition and the raid scene being unfair was completely ignored. We were left in the dark about when the new raid changes would happen, and now several months later, we get a change that's the opposite of one of the most desired changes.

It's not like this change is going to ruin the server. It's very low impact (both in that it won't discourage poopsocking, and it won't hurt casuals that much), but it's still a step in the wrong direction and like many others, I'm wondering why the staff changed their minds from months ago when they agreed that the windows were too long.

[Sizzle]

It's not so much if you aren't sitting around on it's spawn point waiting for it.


Hiyyyoooo

Someone will be with a ranger somewhere tho LOL sucks for anyone who wants dragons now.

[Splorf22]

I'd like to clarify some misinformation that was provided with the latest patch, starting with the lack of a patch note and then an error in confirmation on my part.

Back when we were discussing changes about extending the window of a mob's spawn when it fell within the last 15%, I wrote some code to show as an example. Turns out that code ended up staying in and I had forgotten about it, and it went live with the latest compile.

So...

Patch Note: Respawn timers that fall within the last 15% of a window will now be extended by a random amount up to 24 additional hours, repeating accumlatively until the window is under 85% for total potential spawn time. This currently applies to all mobs who have any variance at all, but will be adjusted next patch to only include mobs that have a minimum base spawn of 2 days or more.

So I am with Giegue: after a huge flamethread the community pretty much settled on simultaneous repops + fte shouts (and I even made a poll about a week ago which was in favor of this solution over the current raid scene by votes of about 15:1. Obama would sell his soul to be elected by that margin) and you made a post indicating that was roughly what you and Nilbog were planning, not to mention less variance. And there was much rejoicing. Now the patch comes and instead we have more variance, not less. I went to google 'wtf' and found this insane video. Take that!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ihOvap5YqRU&feature=fvwp&NR=1

[Triangle]

With all due respect, this is a bad decision. In fact not only is it a bad decision, it is coincidentally the exact opposite of what a good decision would be.

[Nlaar]

With all due respect, this is a bad decision. In fact not only is it a bad decision, it is coincidentally the exact opposite of what a good decision would be.

Agreed.

Those "in charge" need to reread Yendor's / Lazortag's / Splorf's posts.

[Crazyeye]

Cant imagine how far were actually off on velious arrival if were just now attempting to fix the end game of kunark after 2 years. You can't fix whats broken, if your gonna attempt fix something do it the right way with focusing on more content to fill the needs of the massive top end player base.

adding 24hours of variance ontop of the 92hour windows on the total of 14 ( 8 excluding VP ) major boss mobs we currently have 150+ players contesting for, or adding 30+ raid mobs to the mix while freeing up the current to other guilds ?

You are even getting major support from us players recently trying to help the progression of velious. Why not take advantage of this and update the crowdscouring or whatever else it is that we can assist with getting that here rather than wasting your time on this crap?

[Sizzle]

Just make all dragon/god loot no drop.

[Shinko]

Just make all dragon/god loot no drop.


im ok with this 100%

[kotton05]

So can the extended windows be endless if the RNG keeps picking a time withing the last hours of window? Sorry if this has been explained

[arsenalpow]

Just make all dragon/god loot no drop.


im ok with this 100%

Thirded. Also remove the ability to MQ epic parts.

[Tecmos Deception]

So I am with Giegue: after a huge flamethread the community pretty much settled on simultaneous repops + fte shouts (and I even made a poll about a week ago which was in favor of this solution over the current raid scene by votes of about 15:1. Obama would sell his soul to be elected by that margin) and you made a post indicating that was roughly what you and Nilbog were planning, not to mention less variance. And there was much rejoicing. Now the patch comes and instead we have more variance, not less.

This.


:confused:

[kazima441]

Bad GM's are bad.

[contemptor]

This only helps guilds willing to park their entire primary, secondary, or tertiary raid force -- made up of characters they have been buying up for months -- at a target (because that's what constitutes mobilization nowadays) while they play 3rd/4th alts.

At least before, if non-poopsock guilds knew the mob was short in window, it wouldn't be unheard of to hang out for a bit and add to the competition that some of these guilds have allegedly been yearning for.

Doesn't exactly level the playing field. All you've done is given the mob to the guild with the most IP Exemptions so they can log in their raid force the quickest. Not sure if that was the intent here.
.

Sorry they have more characters? Start leveling more up! Or buy some with plat.

I approve of these changes and I think it will get rid of socking. I feel bad for the guilds without that many characters, though.
lol?

[Enygma]

Cant imagine how far were actually off on velious arrival if were just now attempting to fix the end game of kunark after 2 years. You can't fix whats broken, if your gonna attempt fix something do it the right way with focusing on more content to fill the needs of the massive top end player base.

adding 24hours of variance ontop of the 92hour windows on the total of 14 ( 8 excluding VP ) major boss mobs we currently have 150+ players contesting for, or adding 30+ raid mobs to the mix while freeing up the current to other guilds ?

You are even getting major support from us players recently trying to help the progression of velious. Why not take advantage of this and update the crowdscouring or whatever else it is that we can assist with getting that here rather than wasting your time on this crap?

^ this.

[Pringles]

So I think what this means is..... the value of accounts just went up (combined with the huge current inflation issues), because TMO / FE etc will need extra high level characters to perma camp at mobs so they can get their shiny pixels even if they dont want to play the character for anything else.

Cool.

[Combobreaker]

does this count for red also

[uygi]

does this count for red also
This currently applies to all mobs who have any variance at all....Confirmed, all variance mobs on red have extended windows.

Respawn timers that fall within the last 15% of a window will now be extended by a random amount up to 24 additional hours
Seems to me that we'll all know when an initial extension occurs, but since the extension is a random duration you'll never know when the new "window" ends. Basically it just changes the window from a purely linear random chance to a new curve that leans slightly towards longer windows being longer still.

[Autotune]

This is pretty horrible, doubly so without repops.

Basically just took the scare resource that people were fighting vehemently over and made it even less available.

I'd rather just see people permabanned for socking spawn points and remove variance all together and add in repops each week or every other week.

Or at least do the above and instead of permabans allow guilds to just train poopsocks.

Both of those would be more classic solutions to the problem than ~150hrs of variance.

[uygi]

Both of those would be more classic solutions to the problem than ~150hrs of variance.

Assuming the added time is linearly random, mobs going into final 15% would gain an average of 12 hours, with a 15% chance of another 12, so on and so on (as I read it). That means the odds are slim that more than a total of 24 hours would be added. +24 would be a 120 hour window. When we're already talking about 4 days, what's another day?

And I agree, sitting on the spawn is a stupid nuclear option and always was. I think I actually preferred the 15-man rule on average to the FTE lottery; at least with the 15-man rule if the poopsockers weren't able to kill it themselves they weren't rewarded. I miss when players by and large didn't have multiple level 60s and they had to high-tail it from their XP camp to a raid target. Oh well, can't go backwards... without a server wipe...

[Motrin]

INC more SEQ users and longer poopsocks.

[Kagatob]

I think this is the dev team's way of saying that they aren't here to cater to the high end raid guilds and that the squeaky wheel doesn't and won't get the grease.

Enjoy your perpetual poopsocks, I'll enjoy my life that happens to include logging into EQ < 20 hours a week for fun.

[Jokesteve]

Only thing it's hurting is every other Raiding guild wanting to establish this content but TMO/FE...

Simulated repops, or patch day has already concluded that TMO/FE aren't the only ones that get targets...why make windows more painful for the underdogs that don't have the time effort or numbers to wait longer?

Maybe we could...take another stab at a GM enforced Rotation? :)

I was around back when it was in play and now with the number of guilds this seems like one of the best options rather than poop sock competitions... that's all that the variance is composing currently, denying the entire server of shots at epic mobs.

Everytime you post.

I ignore everything you say, and think 'chomo sig'

[Autotune]

I think this is the dev team's way of saying that they aren't here to cater to the high end raid guilds and that the squeaky wheel doesn't and won't get the grease.

Enjoy your perpetual poopsocks, I'll enjoy my life that happens to include logging into EQ < 20 hours a week for fun.

except you're wrong, this change doesn't screw over the top end raiding guilds as much as it does the other more casual guilds.

The top end guilds will still get the loot and the other guilds will even be further away from it.

All this does is make the loot get to those guilds slower.

[falkun]

Enygma & crazyeye and any I may have missed: VELIOUS FIXES NOTHING. Velious just moves the 'socking from a green, forested continent to an icy tundra. The interactions between the players and/or the Server code is how you alter the raiding meta-game on this server.

This and the FTE message are both server code changes to alter the raid scene. This one is mutually exclusive to the ideas from the "raid changes theorycrafting" thread that Giegue quotes Rogean from, while the FTE message is one of the ideas. I hope the devs reverse this decision, but I'm glad I don't have plans to 'sock in the foreseeable future, because this change sucks.

[Stalahoy]

No trolling here. The majority of the player base hates this change. It means less loot for the entire server which will increase demand AND poopsocking. How you guys thought this would decrease poopsocking.... i dont know.

[Autotune]

No trolling here. The majority of the player base hates this change. It means less loot for the entire server which will increase demand AND poopsocking. How you guys thought this would decrease poopsocking.... i dont know.

This game has gone from EQ raiding to P99 raiding.

It's all about massive zerg guild with an insane amount of trackers and calling poopsocks when the chance for a spawn is at its best odds. With these changes, you will never see a normal size guild enter into the raid scene.

[nilbog]

I hope the devs reverse this decision, but I'm glad I don't have plans to 'sock in the foreseeable future, because this change sucks.

No trolling here. The majority of the player base hates this change. It means less loot for the entire server which will increase demand AND poopsocking. How you guys thought this would decrease poopsocking.... i dont know.

To be fair, Rogean didn't say it was intentional, he said it was written to show an example and subsequently left in as a mistake. This thread was an announcement that there were indeed variances change in place.


Back when we were discussing changes about extending the window of a mob's spawn when it fell within the last 15%, I wrote some code to show as an example. Turns out that code ended up staying in and I had forgotten about it, and it went live with the latest compile.

[Kagatob]

except you're wrong, this change doesn't screw over the top end raiding guilds as much as it does the other more casual guilds.

The top end guilds will still get the loot and the other guilds will even be further away from it.

All this does is make the loot get to those guilds slower.

You act like every player on the server gives a shit about being in a raid guild and slaying the dragons for their phat lewts.

I agree it won't fix the problem, but if it's going to make the raid guilds squirm in the meantime I'm all for it 100%. :D

[Autotune]

You act like every player on the server gives a shit about being in a raid guild and slaying the dragons for their phat lewts.

I agree it won't fix the problem, but if it's going to make the raid guilds squirm in the meantime I'm all for it 100%. :D

Every player may not, but they should.

I can tell you already that odds are being worked out to figure out the best chances at grabbing spawns with the new system. End game raiding guilds don't care, one of them proposed the system...

[uygi]

Enygma & crazyeye and any I may have missed: VELIOUS FIXES NOTHING. Velious just moves the 'socking from a green, forested continent to an icy tundra. The interactions between the players and/or the Server code is how you alter the raiding meta-game on this server.

Except that Velious increases the available raid content by a factor of maybe 30-40 when you consider the dramatic increase in targets coupled with much, much faster respawns than we currently have. Add to that that they're a lot harder to kill and can't be zerged down the way 32k targets can, and I think Velious will fix a lot. Any guild, or any 2 guilds, that think they can hold down all the raid targets will probably burn out very quickly. Do you really think 1-2 guilds can manage to hold down Vindi, HoT, Dain/Tormax/Yelinak/NToV/ST/Zland/Kland/HarlaDar/Tunare and whatever else? Maybe 2nd/3rd tier guilds won't get to kill their preferred mob every night, but they'll be able to get a lot more than our current cockblock raid scene allows.

[Kagatob]

Every player may not, but they should.

Stop
posting
please

[Autotune]

Stop
posting
please

No. If you haven't noticed the population that would like to raid is much larger than the populations that don't want to and the one that already is.

You, perhaps, happen to be in the smallest group on P99, the one that doesn't want to raid (congrats). However, the majority of the server would like to see EQ raiding content without jumping through insane non-classic hoops.

You also have brought nothing to the conversation/thread other than "LULZ, I PERCEVE EMAGINERY LULZ"

[Kagatob]

No. If you haven't noticed the population that would like to raid is much larger than the populations that don't want to and the one that already is.

Pull more numbers out of your ass please.

[falkun]

Pull more numbers out of your ass please.

The size of the P99 population that does not want to poopsock is smaller than the P99 population that does not want to raid and are not mutually exclusive. Stop confusing the two.

[uygi]

The size of the P99 population that does not want to poopsock is smaller than the P99 population that does not want to raid and are not mutually exclusive. Stop confusing the two.

A lot of people on P99 wish they could gather up their friends and go kill a raid mob without wading through a sea of shit. The only long-term solution that might make that possible is Velious.

[Autotune]

The size of the P99 population that does not want to poopsock is smaller than the P99 population that does not want to raid and are not mutually exclusive. Stop confusing the two.

I think you have this backwards.

There are tons of people who want to raid, just not in the current set-up (tracking, variance, poopsocking). I don't know of anyone but ka(whatever) that states he just doesn't want to raid.

[Harmonium]

It does not help. The poopsocking will commence before the last 15%, and once started it will not stop.

[Kagatob]

I think you have this backwards.

There are tons of people who want to raid, just not in the current set-up (tracking, variance, poopsocking). I don't know of anyone but ka(whatever) that states he just doesn't want to raid.

Not everyone is some jobless lowlife who wants to spend hundreds of hours a month playing a 13 year old game with no reward other than some stats in a window (AKA you).

It's not about "raiding" it's about what you and the P99 raiding community call "raiding". This debacle is not the dev's fault, it's yours. The only ones to blame are yourselves, I hope some day you'll understand this.

I also hope you realize that it's your bitching and moaning that has caused the devs to make things worse for you. It's blatantly obvious the reason they actually implemented non-classic FTE shouts is so they would potentially have less work to do while they develop more content for the server as a whole. They have stated time and time again that they don't give a shit what you think when it comes to this kind of thing.

The project 1999 "raiding community" has made this bed, at most the devs have supplied the lighting. Continue to sleep in it for a while longer.

[Autotune]

Not everyone is some jobless lowlife who wants to spend hundreds of hours a month playing a 13 year old game with no reward other than some stats in a window (AKA you).

It's not about "raiding" it's about what you and the P99 raiding community call "raiding". This debacle is not the dev's fault, it's yours. The only ones to blame are yourselves, I hope some day you'll understand this.

I also hope you realize that it's your bitching and moaning that has caused the devs to make things worse for you. It's blatantly obvious the reason they actually implemented non-classic FTE shouts is so they would potentially have less work to do while they develop more content for the server as a whole. They have stated time and time again that they don't give a shit what you think when it comes to this kind of thing.

The project 1999 "raiding community" has made this bed, at most the devs have supplied the lighting. Continue to sleep in it for a while longer.

Make things worse for who? The same guilds that were getting the loot still are, it's a minor inconvenience to them. They already poopsock for days, you think another day or two really hurts them in the long run when there are several other targets doing the same overlap? It just shows you how clueless you are to things you're commenting on.

The staff/devs literally changed the wait timer from 8 to 10 for the guilds already rolling around in this shitting p99 raid scene. However, they changed the requirement to join the raid scene from 10 to 100 for smaller guilds. This is what you don't understand. The majority of the people want to raid, they don't want to jump through non-classic hopes (if you'd actually read and comprehend).

If staff wants to keep kicking everyone else in the teeth so they can have the chance to inconvenience a bunch of no-lifers for a few more hours, then so be it. I don't think it's going to go over well with all the people you think of as "doesn't want to raid".

You try to prove some point as if I'm upset, because of what TMO or FE has to keep doing. You're flat wrong. If I were still raiding, it wouldn't bother me in the least, it's just a little more of what we were already doing and it puts an even further gap between casual and hardcore which means more loot for my guild members.

Anyone that has ever seen me suggest changes to these raid variations and repops know that I only want it so that more people can join in.

You on the other hand, want to watch the world burn so you can see some fatty wait an extra 30bseconds for their Twinkie to fall out of the vending machine.

[Kagatob]

You on the other hand, want to watch the world burn so you can see some fatty wait an extra 30bseconds for their Twinkie to fall out of the vending machine.

This is exactly what I was talking about before. No matter how much I vehemently disagree with 99% of the things that you post, it's gems like this that will forever keep you off of my ignore list. :)

[falkun]

I think you have this backwards.

There are tons of people who want to raid, just not in the current set-up (tracking, variance, poopsocking). I don't know of anyone but ka(whatever) that states he just doesn't want to raid.

I don't have it backwards, let me make a chart for you:

Don't want to Raid------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Want to Raid
Trade Federation -- Knights of Ni -- Flawless Victory -- Divinity -- Taken -- Bregan D`Aerth - Forceful Entry/The Mystical Order
.................................................. .....|----------------------------------------- Population of "want to raid" --------------------------------|
.................................................. .....|------ Population of "will not poopsock" -------|

* The guilds listed are meant to be representative and not exact. I apologize for offending any guild.
There's plenty that would like to raid, have raided even, but refuse to participate in the 'sock.

[Kagatob]

Your chart is compelling and I suppose I have no choice but to agree. Perhaps I underestimate the bloatedness of TMO/FE's active membership numbers. Assuming you are saying their numbers alone are 1/3 of the active server pop. (Believable but scary) Maybe I was in denial?

[Autotune]

I don't have it backwards, let me make a chart for you:

Don't want to Raid------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Want to Raid
Trade Federation -- Knights of Ni -- Flawless Victory -- Divinity -- Taken -- Bregan D`Aerth - Forceful Entry/The Mystical Order
.................................................. .....|----------------------------------------- Population of "want to raid" --------------------------------|
.................................................. .....|------ Population of "will not poopsock" -------|

* The guilds listed are meant to be representative and not exact. I apologize for offending any guild.
There's plenty that would like to raid, have raided even, but refuse to participate in the 'sock.

This is confusing as fuck, why couldn't you just use fractions or percentages or something lol.

I have this feeling we are saying something very similar.

Edit: I even put it in notepad and tried to make it look like something other than jumbled dashes, lines and guild names but I couldn't.

[mrmop520]

So this just discourages any guild that isn't willing to have trackers setup watching for 4-5 days of a window with mains camped. As someone apart of the largest casual raiding guild on the server, this change makes the time-requirement to even attempt a dragon even larger :( I understand the rush of mobilization, but if any guild besides FE/TMO wants a target, the level of time commitment is insane, especially for a guild that is "casual". As if sitting around clicking track endlessly for days wasn't bad enough--the best solutions to allow guilds such as Taken, BDA, Flawless Victory, Divinity, and Full Circle to attempt a mob such as sev or faydedar (which i am sure they all have the #s and levels for.. the mobs have 32k hp come on) were the lowered variance time (to reduce tracking commitment, and time that mains are parked), and server repops!

[Tecmos Deception]

To be fair, Rogean didn't say it was intentional, he said it was written to show an example and subsequently left in as a mistake. This thread was an announcement that there were indeed variances change in place.

Fungi tunic gets accidentally broken? It is quickly acknowledged as a bug, "fixed pending update," and an update follows quickly.

Some weird code for anti-socking gets accidentally implemented? The fact that it is now live gets announced... and that's it.

You guys have got to understand why this thread is full of what it is instead of a bunch of players saying "np dude, things happen. we <3 p99."

[rahmani]

I say increase variance as much as possible; from one hour to one month.

[Kagatob]

You guys have got to understand why this thread is full of what it is instead of a bunch of players saying "np dude, things happen. we <3 p99."

You are greedy. That's all there is to it.

I say increase variance as much as possible; from one hour to one month.
See? This guy gets it!

[Tecmos Deception]

You are greedy. That's all there is to it.

:rolleyes:

[rahmani]

You are greedy. That's all there is to it.


See? This guy gets it!

It makes no sense mechanically or lore-wise to have a mob respawn every 6 hours or 5 days. It's more "realistic" to have adventurers stumble upon a mob when he is already there.

Heck, I'd even be in favor of anti-camping radius, or make mobs spawn when nobody is tracking them.

In my personal opinion, all of us are here because we want to recapture the feeling EverQuest gave us when we first started. However, now we are reduced to sitting in small areas in cramped dungeons watching a timer.

[Stalahoy]

To be fair, Rogean didn't say it was intentional, he said it was written to show an example and subsequently left in as a mistake. This thread was an announcement that there were indeed variances change in place.

You are absolutely right nilbog. I guess i wrote my previous statement with a sentiment that the gm's thought it would decrease poopsocking after i read sirken's post. It makes me happy that you guys are actively trying to make this server better and i appreciate that. Please continue to do so, ill be here no matter what likely.

[Kagatob]

:rolleyes:

Keep rolling your eyes, you know it's true.

You're one of the worst perpetrators of the 'Everquest isn't a game/fun it's life/work' mentality, you prove it time and time again whenever you talk about grouping with other players.
You're exactly the type that I watch out for hoping NOT to encounter in game. The kind who if you're playing a cleric won't HP buff the casters in the group because you have this 'if they were playing their class right they wouldn't ever get aggro' mentality, or if you were an enchanter you wouldn't buff the manapools of anyone in your group because getting to full mana is some kind of horrendous sin and downtime never happens.

Guess what, that's greed. There's no getting around it and trying to deny it only makes your case that much worse.

[Tecmos Deception]

:rolleyes:

Totally off topic, but what's greedier? Me wanting to use my own time in the way I choose, or someone else wanting me to use my time in the way he would prefer?

[Kagatob]

See you don't even deny it, not one bit, you just try to spin the blame on others for 'not being elite as you are' (Translated from 'wasting your time').

Your case is so much better now because of that :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

[Tecmos Deception]

I really don't even know how you got on this "Tecmos is greedy" kick based on my comment that this thread exists because Rogean said "this is an accident and here is the change that happened" instead of "this is an accident and it will be undone as soon as possible."

[Pend]

Back in my day, Xev was relatively decent at the top/mid guilds coordinating amongst each other to reserve raid spawns in advance (on the "server" forums), so they'd all stand a better chance of rallying their guilds for a reason. It was Nash's equilibrium kind of thing, where the best possible outcome was if everyone worked toward their own goals as well as the goals of others. There'd be outliers that screwed it up, of course, but they'd be snowballed by every other guild that participated until they got with the program. That scheme only works if the spawns are relatively predictable. In my mind, less predictability is more role play, more predictability is more practical.

For Rogean's sake, I think the fire wouldn't have started if he'd been clear that this was not just a mistake, but a temporary one right at the start. ;-) Case in point, it still hasn't been said explicitly that this change is temporary.

Last point is it seems there's a lot of people who assume the server design is a democratic process (community rules). I've seen no such statement, however, and would hope that isn't the case. While nilbog and Rogean are obviously trying to make it the best possible play experience, design by committee produces crap. I'd rather they do what they feel is best. (BTW, keep up the awesome huge work you put into it, guys! I'm impressed, even when I find a few minor "not quite right" things in my adventures.)

My 2c.

[rahmani]

In my mind, less predictability is more role play, more predictability is more practical. :cool:

Question is - "Do we want to play like EQ is our job?"

[Pend]

Question is - "Do we want to play like EQ is our job?"
I can't quite tell which of the two ends of the predictability spectrum that question advocates for. ;-) For the record, I was advocating for more predictability because my feeling is that getting more "role play" here with less predictable spawns leads to more "work/job" feel in actually finding them available.

[Crazyeye]

Enygma & crazyeye and any I may have missed: VELIOUS FIXES NOTHING. Velious just moves the 'socking from a green, forested continent to an icy tundra. The interactions between the players and/or the Server code is how you alter the raiding meta-game on this server.


Your fail to understand. Velious mobs doesn't consist of 32k hp and die in 20 secs like in kunark, noway will there be poopsocking for 16+ hours like there is now. Even if it did, velious opens up 30+ new raid encounters that noway one, nor two top end raiding guilds can monopolize all of the content at once ( Kael, Skyshrine, WW, ToV, PoM, PoG ) not to mention to current kunark raid mobs. So TMO is poopsocking the last 4 hours of vindi, let them waste their time and go kill one maybe 2 of the other 30+ mobs.


EDIT:
DAM this guy nailed it before me ><


Except that Velious increases the available raid content by a factor of maybe 30-40 when you consider the dramatic increase in targets coupled with much, much faster respawns than we currently have. Add to that that they're a lot harder to kill and can't be zerged down the way 32k targets can, and I think Velious will fix a lot. Any guild, or any 2 guilds, that think they can hold down all the raid targets will probably burn out very quickly. Do you really think 1-2 guilds can manage to hold down Vindi, HoT, Dain/Tormax/Yelinak/NToV/ST/Zland/Kland/HarlaDar/Tunare and whatever else? Maybe 2nd/3rd tier guilds won't get to kill their preferred mob every night, but they'll be able to get a lot more than our current cockblock raid scene allows.

[Rogean]

I am aware of his position, however it seems by this circumstance human nature took its course and an error was made by your own admission in which he necessarily didn't sign off on the change from the context given.

He doesn't need to sign off on the changes I make. We both have free reign to do what we feel is necessary / right for the server. We converse regarding large decisions or if a change was made that warrants further discussion.

Stop getting off topic.

[Nlaar]

It makes no sense mechanically or lore-wise to have a mob respawn every 6 hours or 5 days. It's more "realistic" to have adventurers stumble upon a mob when he is already there.

Heck, I'd even be in favor of anti-camping radius, or make mobs spawn when nobody is tracking them.

In my personal opinion, all of us are here because we want to recapture the feeling EverQuest gave us when we first started. However, now we are reduced to sitting in small areas in cramped dungeons watching a timer.

If this is what you want, a more "realistic" approach then how about the hypothetical implementation?

note: all baseline numbers are made up.

VS spawns roughly once a week or so let's say in a given year he will spawn 52 times. We are right now in the first week of march so we have lost 8 weeks/spawns so we're down to 44 weeks/spawns left for the year. 44 * 7 = 308 days left. Randomly distribute his 44 spawns over those 308 days. Some weeks he could not spawn at all and other weeks he may spawn 5x - who knows. That is one solution with the obvious caveat that if there are 20 days left and the year and he still has 5 spawns to go we would have poopsocking again. I'm sure this idea could be tweaked a bit more as well OR maybe it's absolute shit... kind of like the poo about to be overflowing from socks everywhere.

[Handull]

Do these changes apply to VP dragons? Cause I think we can agree this isn't needed in VP.

[rahmani]

If this is what you want, a more "realistic" approach then how about the hypothetical implementation?

note: all baseline numbers are made up.

VS spawns roughly once a week or so let's say in a given year he will spawn 52 times. We are right now in the first week of march so we have lost 8 weeks/spawns so we're down to 44 weeks/spawns left for the year. 44 * 7 = 308 days left. Randomly distribute his 44 spawns over those 308 days. Some weeks he could not spawn at all and other weeks he may spawn 5x - who knows. That is one solution with the obvious caveat that if there are 20 days left and the year and he still has 5 spawns to go we would have poopsocking again. I'm sure this idea could be tweaked a bit more as well OR maybe it's absolute shit... kind of like the poo about to be overflowing from socks everywhere.

I'm just saying there has to be a threshold, at which people just stop poop socking. If Venril Sathir only were guaranteed to spawn one time per month, but could spawn more frequently I suspect people wouldn't sit there the entire time.

[Nlaar]

I'm just saying there has to be a threshold, at which people just stop poop socking. If Venril Sathir only were guaranteed to spawn one time per month, but could spawn more frequently I suspect people wouldn't sit there the entire time.

yeah after thinking about it a little more I realize that my idea isn't all that different than what is currently going on and wouldn't help the situation.

[Splorf22]

Crazyeyes: Velious will help a ton, but lets also not forget that a lot of players will come back. I forecast server population hitting 2000 every night for the first month of Velious. It's going to be an amazing clusterfuck. Now after 6 months and things calm down you might be right. But I still think variance is horrible and needs to go, and the only way to get rid of variance without encouraging poopsocking is simultaneous repops.

Deajay: I think your graph is off, doesn't chest call mandatory trakanon poopsocks with 8 hours left in window? :D

Kagatob: Speaking for myself and my guild, we have kind of the same attitude. We'd like to try to progress through the mobs with low numbers and a lot of charm abuse. I bet we could kill Trakanon with our current force of 15-20 players of average level 58 and like 2 pieces of VP gear. For us, this is way more fun than fighting with 40+ because everyone's contribution is important and you have to actually use strategy. This kind of playstyle is totally impossible on this server as currently set up.

The reason the guilds are so big is that they have to be able to batphone 40 players 24/7 in order to kill these bosses without any sort of strategy because there simply isn't time when the other force is logging in.

[Kagatob]

The reason the guilds are so big is that they have to be able to batphone 40 players 24/7 in order to kill these bosses without any sort of strategy because there simply isn't time when the other force is logging in.

FTE in any form is still the root cause of all of this bullshit.

Stop strying to treat the symptoms, heal the actual ailment.

[arsenalpow]

Deajay: I think your graph is off, doesn't chest call mandatory trakanon poopsocks with 8 hours left in window? :D

The reason the guilds are so big is that they have to be able to batphone 40 players 24/7 in order to kill these bosses without any sort of strategy because there simply isn't time when the other force is logging in.

Meh, we used to call them. Trak has really turned into a shit show though. BDA has only killed Trak when he's spawned during our juggs raids but even that has caused the competition to get upset. If we are raiding juggs then TMO/FE will have pullers FD under Trak to DA stall long enough to get a raid force logged in, or they'll just have their folks logged in at poop mountain waiting.

Hell, we were raiding juggs while Trak was lowish in window and Zeelott moved his force from the mountain to Trak's spawn point and claimed "15 on spawn" back when that was legal even though we were in the lair.

Point being is that my guild would like to actively play the game and pick off targets along the way instead of logging their best character fully buffed at VS room, or north wall in fear, or poop mountain, ogre island in TD, EJ at the TT zoneline, etc etc in order to instantly mobilize and fight off trains and shitty FTE snipes and shady pulling. This change only benefits guilds with playstyles like TMO and FE that were constructed to mobilize 40+ at any time of the day. Not to mention its awful for anyone grouping if a dragon spawns, OMG SPAWN /q and leave other people hanging.

[Nlaar]

Hell, we were raiding juggs while Trak was lowish in window and Zeelott moved his force from the mountain to Trak's spawn point and claimed "15 on spawn" back when that was legal even though we were in the lair.


I forgot about that gem. What a great display of wanting competition and how skewed the definition of competition has become on this server.

[arsenalpow]

I forgot about that gem. What a great display of wanting competition and how skewed the definition of competition has become on this server.

I want competition too. Racing for targets is pretty fun. I don't think it's fun to do mandatory camp outs fully buffed at targets, but that's what the server has come to. There are times when BDA does it too, but I don't feel that it makes the game enjoyable.

The bottom line is pixels. You can be a zerg or an insufferable collection of people but as long as the pixels are still rolling in you'll be able to find support for the cause. Loot solves all.

[OMGWTF420]

I forgot about that gem. What a great display of wanting competition and how skewed the definition of competition has become on this server.

i remember this too lol, nothing more "competitive" than 150 ppl sitting on trak's spawn waiting for him to pop, the funny part was when 75 of them went LD when he finally did pop lol

on topic tho, arent these changes pretty much the exact opposite of what you guys said you were going to do? which was lessen variance? why add more variance??

[Kexon]

I'd like to clarify some misinformation that was provided with the latest patch, starting with the lack of a patch note and then an error in confirmation on my part.

Back when we were discussing changes about extending the window of a mob's spawn when it fell within the last 15%, I wrote some code to show as an example. Turns out that code ended up staying in and I had forgotten about it, and it went live with the latest compile.

So...

Patch Note: Respawn timers that fall within the last 15% of a window will now be extended by a random amount up to 24 additional hours, repeating accumlatively until the window is under 85% for total potential spawn time. This currently applies to all mobs who have any variance at all, but will be adjusted next patch to only include mobs that have a minimum base spawn of 2 days or more.

Gotcha , we'll deal with it thanks

[Combobreaker]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Combobreaker
does this count for red also

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogean
This currently applies to all mobs who have any variance at all....
Confirmed, all variance mobs on red have extended windows.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogean
Respawn timers that fall within the last 15% of a window will now be extended by a random amount up to 24 additional hours
Seems to me that we'll all know when an initial extension occurs, but since the extension is a random duration you'll never know when the new "window" ends. Basically it just changes the window from a purely linear random chance to a new curve that leans slightly towards longer windows being longer still.

Heard that this was not in effect for red :(

[Malevz]

Heard that this was not in effect for red :(

If you want to camp mobs forever you should probably be on blue Ezpk, come fight for them.

[Kagatob]

FTE in any form is still the root cause of all of this bullshit.

Stop strying to treat the symptoms, heal the actual ailment.

[Combobreaker]

If you want to camp mobs forever you should probably be on blue Ezpk, come fight for them.

The only problem we on Red are having

is that 40 zergling fucks all log in on sunday - for 5 hours

and clear every named spawn available to server - because we have no variance.

40 vs 12-16 every week for every named mob to spawn on sunday is retarded

[heartbrand]

You guys got sev to 97% with 20+ you have bigger issues :p

[Jenni D]

id say it would help open up the raid scene on red if this were put into effect. more pixels to go round, bigger pop, not sure whats to lose.

note; i arent interested in raiding. just observing

[Twain]

One time, on red. Nihilum didn't raid everything on Sunday. Mobs were spread out across the week. End Result? Nihilum still killed every mob uncontested. I think Azrael did kill draco and clear Fear for us to kill CT a few times though.

You can't honestly think we have 40 people on any raid right? You zoned into KS while we were clearing for VS and saw 34 of us. I think we did have 37 at one point, which is the highest number I have seen in a long time. But I always forget how bad your math skill are. 34=40 2=27 Trak Tooth=20k Lifetap

If you want to contest mobs, think about calling a raid sometime. Maybe schedule something to contest? You can't tell me all of your guild goes to church on Sunday and stays there all day.

[heartbrand]

Free inside info. Trak will be up tonight and we're not killing it tonight. Enjoy. Gorenaire up vox up as well. I expect big kill shots from you guys.

[Supreme]

Variance was to counter the poop socking.

Red has no poop socking and thus no variance.

No competition either but whatever.

[Kagatob]

FTE in any form is still the root cause of all of this bullshit.

Stop strying to treat the symptoms, heal the actual ailment.

[Jenni D]

sounds like trak died on red

[Clark]

the idea (and i could be wrong, Rogean please correct me if i am) is that if the variance is shortened it will increase the # of players poopsocking.

whereas, with the variance having a chance to reset, players are less likely to poopsock knowing it could be 6 hrs up to 30hrs until pop.

ultimately it's up to the players to decide how they wish to spend their time, you will always have guilds using trackers, but i expect to see a lot less of 100 people on VS or on trak or on any other raid mob spawn spot, because it adds a higher sense of randomness to when the pop will happen

<3

+1

[Clark]

I don't have it backwards, let me make a chart for you:

Don't want to Raid------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Want to Raid
Trade Federation -- Knights of Ni -- Flawless Victory -- Divinity -- Taken -- Bregan D`Aerth - Forceful Entry/The Mystical Order
.................................................. .....|----------------------------------------- Population of "want to raid" --------------------------------|
.................................................. .....|------ Population of "will not poopsock" -------|

* The guilds listed are meant to be representative and not exact. I apologize for offending any guild.
There's plenty that would like to raid, have raided even, but refuse to participate in the 'sock.

Deejay! This makes no sense to me :eek:

[Kagatob]

Deejay! This makes no sense to me :eek:

Raise your screen's resolution above 640x480.

[Autotune]

Raise your screen's resolution above 640x480.

my laptop doesn't go any higher than 1366x768 :(

It made no sense to me either

[Kagatob]

Made perfect sense to me.

1920x1200 FTW

[pharmakos]

one of the tactics smaller guilds with less resources were using to compete was to head to a spawn point when a mob is close to the end of its window

this hurts that tactic

[Frieza_Prexus]

All these people agree with me:

When these, literally some of the greatest scholars of Classic EverQuest that the world has ever known, yet all interpersonally cantankerous to some degree or another, all agree on what should probably be done with Variance and the raid scene, and have been in accord for approximately an entire year, the developers should probably at least PRETEND to BEGIN pay attention.

Interestingly enough, not a single sock has occurred since these changes went live. Correlation? Mere happenstance? I don't know. Merely interesting. (Though perhaps I'm overly invested in the idea, but if it really is working I'll try not to have any "I told you so's" :p)

[arsenalpow]

Because grouping in venril's room doesn't count? Because camping a raid force at the north wall in fear doesn't count?

[oldschooltrader]

Because grouping in venril's room doesn't count? Because camping a raid force at the north wall in fear doesn't count?

This. You are lieing to yourselves if you think poopsocking doesnt "exist" anymore bc of this variance change. Only thing that changed is the characters that would b sitting at spawn in game are now more than likely camped at the spot instead. Does that fix any problem? The raid force is still basically still there socking it up.

If you say that the camped character thing is a strat n not poopsocking then i have some magic beans to sell you.


No more 100 people on VS spawn point correct, but the virus is far from cured.

[Frieza_Prexus]

No more 100 people on VS spawn point correct, but the virus is far from cured.

Personally, I consider it an improvement to not have people just sitting there socking. A huge one? No, but it was either have chars camped everywhere AND sock, or have chars camped and not have to sit there logged in to sock.

This is clearly no panacea. Do better, far more efficacious solutions exist? Extremely likely. However, to not have 100 people on VS's spawn anymore, well that's at least slightly better right?

Any improvement is better than none. Let's stop acting like any change other than the best one automatically excludes all other solutions. Nothing here is preclusive of additional problem-solving.

[pharmakos]

This. You are lieing to yourselves if you think poopsocking doesnt "exist" anymore bc of this variance change. Only thing that changed is the characters that would b sitting at spawn in game are now more than likely camped at the spot instead. Does that fix any problem? The raid force is still basically still there socking it up.

If you say that the camped character thing is a strat n not poopsocking then i have some magic beans to sell you.


No more 100 people on VS spawn point correct, but the virus is far from cured.

this ^^

players asking for a change have been accused of repeatedly trying the same thing without getting any results

well, the server admins also seem to be trying the same thing without getting results either

the theory was that variance would allow smaller guilds to compete. it simply hasn't done that, though.

was a noble experiment but i think its time for something new

the next idea may work or it may not, but something new would be at least worth TRYING imo

[OMGWTF420]

arent these changes pretty much the exact opposite of what you guys said you were going to do? which was lessen variance? why add more variance??

[Ruenaros]

I'm sure there's a "yo dawg" to be had here since we're now varying our variance. I come back after a year to see not much has changed...

where's the maintenance day pops!?

[Skope]

http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instances/400x/37208074.jpg

[Nirgon]

I think certain mobs come Velious can be considered group content and not raid content.

Will any mobs if shown to be regularly soloable/groupable become 7 day static spawns that are not Velious NPCs? AKA removed from variance?

[mtb tripper]

I forgot about anti aliasing

[Ruenaros]

Anyone remember when they started doing those "rolling restarts" on maintenance day instead of the normal downtime window? I was trying to remember the specifics of how that worked... I think it still disconnected everyone from the server, but only for like 10-15 minutes instead of the usual 4-5 hour downtime.

[Feniggles]

red needs this

[nall]

Just make all dragon/god loot no drop.


im ok with this 100%

Agreed, Make it all No drop and Non-multiquestable... no more "SELLING" of Epics, Kunark BPs/Legs... make it not worth it if they already HAVE the god damned gear...and MAYBE just MAYBE some of them will get a damned life and give up trying to collect plat.

Part of the reason I stopped playing was TMOs bullshit that causes 20+ hours of Poopsocking for anything interesting... and this is why Warcraft Created "instances"

Its a 14+ year old game.. and people are still Fighting like little children over digital nothingness for HOURS on end ... thanks i'll go play RIFT / Guildwars 2 or for that matter ANY game that doesnt require 20+ hours of sitting there waiting for Glimmer of hope that a Raid mob MIGHT spawn and MIGHT have something you want...

its utter garbage... the fact is that you can go download and play Everquest on your own server.. modify it the way you want to and play with just your buddies...its sad that TMO and whomever else waste days and months and weeks looking at a wall in hopes of a mob spawning.. and we have 14 plus pages of arguements about it... Stop trying to
"re-live your Glory days" by being UBER on a game that no one gives a shit about any more besides a small group of die hard fans who refuse to play another game...

Everquest was great..I enjoyed playing the game with others again (TY p1999) but all of your player base have ruined the game .. GG

[Shinko]

so

[RevengeofGio]

Agreed, Make it all No drop and Non-multiquestable... no more "SELLING" of Epics, Kunark BPs/Legs... make it not worth it if they already HAVE the god damned gear...and MAYBE just MAYBE some of them will get a damned life and give up trying to collect plat.

Part of the reason I stopped playing was TMOs bullshit that causes 20+ hours of Poopsocking for anything interesting... and this is why Warcraft Created "instances"

Its a 14+ year old game.. and people are still Fighting like little children over digital nothingness for HOURS on end ... thanks i'll go play RIFT / Guildwars 2 or for that matter ANY game that doesnt require 20+ hours of sitting there waiting for Glimmer of hope that a Raid mob MIGHT spawn and MIGHT have something you want...

its utter garbage... the fact is that you can go download and play Everquest on your own server.. modify it the way you want to and play with just your buddies...its sad that TMO and whomever else waste days and months and weeks looking at a wall in hopes of a mob spawning.. and we have 14 plus pages of arguements about it... Stop trying to
"re-live your Glory days" by being UBER on a game that no one gives a shit about any more besides a small group of die hard fans who refuse to play another game...

Everquest was great..I enjoyed playing the game with others again (TY p1999) but all of your player base have ruined the game .. GG

You'd think that given the fairly small playerbase of die hards that the race to get pixels and gain game money would slow down....


Noooope (in a Lana voice).

[Shinko]

can we have a example of a max window?

IE VS would it be 81.6 hours on top of his 96 hours?

[Shinko]

or So VS has a normal variance of 96 hours.
Extended window is 96 x .85 = 81.6 additional hours. At any point during the extended window it can do a check, and extend it further.
The last moment it can do a check is at the 177.6 hour mark, and it can add an additonal 24 hours at the time. Which means the latest it can spawn is 201.6 hours from window open.

[pharmakos]

don't think your numbers are right there. not sure why you did 96 x 0.85. if the random time falls within the last 15% then the window gets extended by up to an additional 24 hours, not an additional 80 some.

[Funkutron5000]

It can be extended multiple times, Pharmakos. The last VS was ~72 hours after his original variance window "closed".

[Shinko]

Patch Note: Respawn timers that fall within the last 15% of a window will now be extended by a random amount up to 24 additional hours, repeating accumlatively until the window is under 85% for total potential spawn time.


need to be explained a little better?

[Kender]

Patch Note: Respawn timers that fall within the last 15% of a window will now be extended by a random amount up to 24 additional hours, repeating accumlatively until the window is under 85% for total potential spawn time.


need to be explained a little better?

how does this benefit anyone but TMO who already have most of what they want and are now only farming for plat (and in all likelyhood RMT)

Less loot in game = higher prices for the stuff that's farmed for coin and less likely that a smaller guild can get the mobs cause they can't camp 30 alts on the spawn

[Skope]

how does this benefit anyone but TMO who already have most of what they want and are now only farming for plat (and in all likelyhood RMT)

Less loot in game = higher prices for the stuff that's farmed for coin and less likely that a smaller guild can get the mobs cause they can't camp 30 alts on the spawn

Rogean and Nilbog have already admitted that the changes benefit the people poopsocking and the huge zergforces, but if you're looking for a fair and reasonable approach then I'd suggest you find another server.

[Scoresby]

I've thought a neat way to drive variance would be to randomly pull ahead another raid targets timer by (lets say 12 hrs) each time a raid target dies. This way you will have targets spawning artificially early and more difficult to time. There's still a chance a target doesn't get pulled ahead at all. But also possible you could see a 3 day target up mere hours after it dies.

Gives large guilds with presence their advantage of numbers, but also creates a dynamic element to encourage mobility. Of course, artificial patch days kind of do the same thing.

All no drop raid loot wasn't a terrible idea either.

It definitely hurts my head to read these threads and I don't even have a horse in the race. Is pretty crazy there is such a drive in the raid scene though. Just wish it didn't sound so unhealthy.

[Frieza_Prexus]

I've thought a neat way to drive variance would be to randomly pull ahead another raid targets timer by (lets say 12 hrs) each time a raid target dies. This way you will have targets spawning artificially early and more difficult to time. There's still a chance a target doesn't get pulled ahead at all. But also possible you could see a 3 day target up mere hours after it dies.

You're suggesting what some have started calling "linked respawns."

It's a reasonably popular idea, and a lot are intrigued by it because of the dynamic factor your mentioned. However, most have put that aside in favor of semi-random repops which is generally the most popular solution.

[RevengeofGio]

Rogean and Nilbog have already admitted that the changes benefit the people poopsocking and the huge zergforces, but if you're looking for a fair and reasonable approach then I'd suggest you find another server.

I can't believe that anyone really wants this unless its just for RMT.
Eventually raiders get tired and existing players start to leave. Then all the effort and accumulation of plat doesn't matter.

"Yeah we won the raiding scene on p99" <--- doesn't count for much outside of the people who play on this server...

I'll go back to a previous point though - this is the nature of EQ :( if anything a forced rotation needs to be in place. I know evil evil favoring casual players, but it may help the long term health of the game. Velious might solve some of this also (unless TMO or IB or FE just become so big that they are everywhere at once....)

[Skope]

I can't believe that anyone really wants this unless its just for RMT.

It is bordering on the point of tinfoil-hattery.

Eventually raiders get tired and existing players start to leave. Then all the effort and accumulation of plat doesn't matter.

The burnout rate has always been enormous, and this has only expanded that. People play P99 while it's all bright and shiny, but as soon as they realize just how much of a shithole Rogean and Nilbog have made the raid scene, the vast majority quit.

I'll go back to a previous point though - this is the nature of EQ :(

It isn't. It's the nature of P99.

Velious might solve some of this also (unless TMO or IB or FE just become so big that they are everywhere at once....)

No, not while they're (admittedly...) favoring the zergforce+poopsock. And given that they're pushing patch notes for them, I reckon your hope is unwarranted and unjustified.

The "Classic Everquest" slogan should read: "Where we take the most accurate Everquest code and fuck it up relentlessly"

[Shinko]

can i get this explained then?

[pallius]

Well... it is pretty difficult to raid 2 or 3 mobs at the same time. Maybe you can group raid targets into tiers and make it so multiple targets within the same tier spawn simultaneously.

For example, maybe have Cazic, Inny, and say, Faydedar all spawn at the same time. Make Gorenaire, Sev, and Trak spawn at the same time.

This will force guilds to choose which target to pursue. If Uberguild_001 chooses to go after Trak, so be it. That means Sev and Gore are up for others to kill.

Would need some kind of logic that balances the spawn time windows so that overall the spawns are the same frequency in the long run.



Some other dynamics (obviously not classic, but pragmatic) may be to have raid engagements in one zone have the chance to trigger a spawn in another. For example, maybe with each dragon killed in VP, there is a 5-10% chance of Trak spawning. Or when Velious comes out, while key mobs in ST are killed or engaged (below 50% or something) there is a small chance that a boss that drops an ST key piece will trigger.

Since 2boxing is not allowed, simultaneous targets creates a true opportunity cost dilemma for raiding parties.

[Kelven]

Tracking for days on end sucks. Reduce the variance so people that can't be on for 3 days straight get a freakin chance at killing something

Server is so in favor of the people who never log off

[enr4ged]

Tracking for days on end sucks. Reduce the variance so people that can't be on for 3 days straight get a freakin chance at killing something

Server is so in favor of the people who never log off

This...

Four day spawn windows per mob is absolutely stupid.
Not classic.

[Sarius]

Why is there an extended variance if FTE shouts were implemented?

[happyhappy]

Good question.

[Dentalplan]

Why is variance needed at all with fte shouts in?

[fullmetalcoxman]

Apparently 20 people sitting on a spawn is bad, but 2 people sitting on a spawn is good.

[Shinko]

Respawn timers that fall within the last 15% of a window will now be extended by a random amount up to 24 additional hours, repeating accumlatively until the window is under 85% for total potential spawn time


yo, explain this please...
Trakanon
Respawn Time: 3 Days (+/- 18 hours)

so that means....

[Alarti0001]

Respawn timers that fall within the last 15% of a window will now be extended by a random amount up to 24 additional hours, repeating accumlatively until the window is under 85% for total potential spawn time


yo, explain this please...
Trakanon
Respawn Time: 3 Days (+/- 18 hours)

so that means....

must know exact poopsock values

[Shinko]

sure expain

[NizmerThafen]

I think these changes on variance will do *some* to mitigate the ridiculous poop-socking on the part of the have-no-life obsessive guilds, however it will *hurt even more* the I-have-a-life-but-also-enjoy-EQ-on-the-weekends guilds.

If there was no variance and all the mobs spawned at known times, that would actually allow for better competition among a lot more guilds and dare I say they might be forced to cooperate and be more civil if variance was nixed? With the raid targets now calling out the name of the first person to agro, which is an awesome idea to implement, that would kill any controversy over "who got the mob first".

[NizmerThafen]

Why is variance needed at all with fte shouts in?

...Exactly.

[pharmakos]

If there was no variance and all the mobs spawned at known times, that would actually allow for better competition among a lot more guilds and dare I say they might be forced to cooperate and be more civil if variance was nixed?

one of the problems with static spawn timers is guilds locking the timer down on off-peak times, and trying to keep the exact spawn times a secret.

i wonder (if there were no variance) if it would be possible for the P99 staff to set up a script for a website that shows the exact time that raid mobs will spawn?

[Vega]

one of the problems with static spawn timers is guilds locking the timer down on off-peak times, and trying to keep the exact spawn times a secret.

i wonder (if there were no variance) if it would be possible for the P99 staff to set up a script for a website that shows the exact time that raid mobs will spawn?

Simulated patch days with re-pops and reset timers would help this. Plus locking a timer down to when you want requires the raid mob stays up long enough for you to shift the repop time. This won't happen on blue.

[Kelven]

The GM's ( only really going off Sirken's statements ) apparently have the mindset that if the rest of the server's guilds want to get bosses, then they need to do something about it.

This has become more and more out of reach for anyone that doesn't have anything better to do but play P99.

The raid scene now ( and please don't deny this ) is as follows:

Is log out your lvl 60 char at whatever boss you would like to kill, albeit Trak, Sev, VS, whatever. Leave a monk, or something FD near the spawn, and alternate poopsocking the living shit out of it with whoever has the time in guild.

Whenever XXbossmobX spawns, batphone and omfgbbq log in / kill monstar.

Now, the longer the variance, the longer someone has to sit there, completely braindead... waiting for the stupid boss to spawn. Everyone else has one of their characters locked for up to a week, sitting at some stupid ass dragon.

Overall I think the GM's views on what the server's average population is capable of committing to this game is very warped. I don't know why someone assumes that if we're not playing P99, we're simply twiddling our thumbs in another room , waiting for the batphone to ring. Ever heard of a Job/Family/Life ?

--
Rotation:
--

A rotation will NEVER happen under our current rule set and variance. There is simply no direct competition for anything.

You might get 2, possibly 3 guilds competing directly for a boss/dragon if even that. If you had 4-5 guilds all ready to go, and there was a good chance ANY of those 5 could grab FTE -- guilds might be more apt to working out some sort of rotation.

Of course we've all seen how shitty people can act towards one another when there's direct competition. Trains, bs rule lawyering, why did the GM rule this way one time and differently the next, and so on...

Nobody wants to police the guilds on this server, so variance is the best band aid for the job.

It's been two years, and a large majority of bosses on this server are killed by 1 guild.

--
Suggestion:
--

A great part of EQ , was the endgame. It's obvious there's a high population of people on the server who would like to, or are trying to experience the endgame. However, due to the huge time requirement, it's just not viable.

Referring to the pole ( when was your first EQ experience ) - a large majority of the server played EQ back in classic / Kunark. That puts most of us in our late 20's 30's, and older. I for example, do not have the time I did back when I was 17, skipping homework to play this game.

Kunark has been out for the better part of 2 years, and the majority of the server is still contesting ( or wishing they could contest ) Trak, Sev, Inny, CT, VS, ... hell, even Naggy/Vox are still being killed immediately by alt armies.

There's literally only TWO guilds that even attempt to kill dragons in VP, after 2 years.

My point behind all of this, is Kunark has been out forever. People are still clamoring to kill every boss in the game. Maybe there isn't enough to go around ?

Why, other then the "it's not classic" argument, would it be a bad idea to have MORE spawns? More chances for the rest of the server to kill what they want, and maybe the people who have been killing the bosses continually for the last 2 years will gear out their 7th alt and leave something for the rest of us.

It's not classic, no, but neither is a week long variance.

--
DDOS, Rare items, RMT:
--

We've been getting ddos'd for the last week, and rumor has it someone is trying to dupe items through the server lag. If that's true or not, it's obvious someone is seriously fucking unhappy. If they are trying to dupe 'rare' items, putting these items in more hands, would decrease their value, and possibly make them less valuable to dupe.

If RMT is a bad thing, and you'd actually like to see it fade away. Decrease the value of these things people are duping/selling. The economy is obviously not flooded if AoN's can still be sold for upwards of 500k, an item that literally does nothing but turn you into a fucking skeleton.

Who would buy platinum if they could actually play the game and acquire items ?? Crazy, I know.

--
tl:dr
--
raid scene is crap, it's been 2 years and everything is still monopolized
spawn more overlords so that people can enjoy the server, may even help with our rmt/ddos situation.

[pharmakos]

Who would buy platinum if they could actually play the game and acquire items ?? Crazy, I know.

damn good point

[anotherone]

--
tl:dr
--

spawn more overlords

i also support aons for the people. lol.

[raff01]

The GM's ( only really going off Sirken's statements ) apparently have the mindset that if the rest of the server's guilds want to get bosses, then they need to do something about it.

This has become more and more out of reach for anyone that doesn't have anything better to do but play P99.

The raid scene now ( and please don't deny this ) is as follows:

Is log out your lvl 60 char at whatever boss you would like to kill, albeit Trak, Sev, VS, whatever. Leave a monk, or something FD near the spawn, and alternate poopsocking the living shit out of it with whoever has the time in guild.

Whenever XXbossmobX spawns, batphone and omfgbbq log in / kill monstar.

Now, the longer the variance, the longer someone has to sit there, completely braindead... waiting for the stupid boss to spawn. Everyone else has one of their characters locked for up to a week, sitting at some stupid ass dragon.

Overall I think the GM's views on what the server's average population is capable of committing to this game is very warped. I don't know why someone assumes that if we're not playing P99, we're simply twiddling our thumbs in another room , waiting for the batphone to ring. Ever heard of a Job/Family/Life ?

--
Rotation:
--

A rotation will NEVER happen under our current rule set and variance. There is simply no direct competition for anything.

You might get 2, possibly 3 guilds competing directly for a boss/dragon if even that. If you had 4-5 guilds all ready to go, and there was a good chance ANY of those 5 could grab FTE -- guilds might be more apt to working out some sort of rotation.

Of course we've all seen how shitty people can act towards one another when there's direct competition. Trains, bs rule lawyering, why did the GM rule this way one time and differently the next, and so on...

Nobody wants to police the guilds on this server, so variance is the best band aid for the job.

It's been two years, and a large majority of bosses on this server are killed by 1 guild.

--
Suggestion:
--

A great part of EQ , was the endgame. It's obvious there's a high population of people on the server who would like to, or are trying to experience the endgame. However, due to the huge time requirement, it's just not viable.

Referring to the pole ( when was your first EQ experience ) - a large majority of the server played EQ back in classic / Kunark. That puts most of us in our late 20's 30's, and older. I for example, do not have the time I did back when I was 17, skipping homework to play this game.

Kunark has been out for the better part of 2 years, and the majority of the server is still contesting ( or wishing they could contest ) Trak, Sev, Inny, CT, VS, ... hell, even Naggy/Vox are still being killed immediately by alt armies.

There's literally only TWO guilds that even attempt to kill dragons in VP, after 2 years.

My point behind all of this, is Kunark has been out forever. People are still clamoring to kill every boss in the game. Maybe there isn't enough to go around ?

Why, other then the "it's not classic" argument, would it be a bad idea to have MORE spawns? More chances for the rest of the server to kill what they want, and maybe the people who have been killing the bosses continually for the last 2 years will gear out their 7th alt and leave something for the rest of us.

It's not classic, no, but neither is a week long variance.

--
DDOS, Rare items, RMT:
--

We've been getting ddos'd for the last week, and rumor has it someone is trying to dupe items through the server lag. If that's true or not, it's obvious someone is seriously fucking unhappy. If they are trying to dupe 'rare' items, putting these items in more hands, would decrease their value, and possibly make them less valuable to dupe.

If RMT is a bad thing, and you'd actually like to see it fade away. Decrease the value of these things people are duping/selling. The economy is obviously not flooded if AoN's can still be sold for upwards of 500k, an item that literally does nothing but turn you into a fucking skeleton.

Who would buy platinum if they could actually play the game and acquire items ?? Crazy, I know.

--
tl:dr
--
raid scene is crap, it's been 2 years and everything is still monopolized
spawn more overlords so that people can enjoy the server, may even help with our rmt/ddos situation.

Stop making so much sense and let GM's believe their server is classic and they do not need to reset it...Oh and TMO is a great guild /sarcasm

[mtb tripper]

yap

[Ruenaros]

I'm still hoping for the maintenance day repop patch. Sure it's a cluster-F when a repop happens right now, cause it's so incredibly rare that most guilds are extremely unorganized about it. If it were happening on a weekly basis, that would change pretty damn fast.

I would prefer see it in materialize in true classic form where even the time is known (or a small window of time for when the servers came back up). It would be completely impossible to monopolize spawns on a repop if the whole sever knows when it's going to happen ahead of time. Suddenly everyone in your guild having eight level 60 accounts pre-buffed and logged at various spawn points isn't such a huge advantage.

[smooman]

I'm only new, not in a big guild (heck I mostly solo and haven't even gotten out of level 20 diapers yet!) and while I did play back in 1999 (on firiona vie and sullon zek) I never got in with the major theorycrafters so I guess my opinion might not hold much weight here....

But I always thought of it this way.


Why not make the appearance of heavy hitting raid mobs be a challenge rather than a timed surety?

Now this is from someone who has mostly played on RP servers, so perhaps I'm a bit biased; but I've always thought it would be amazing if raid fights were the result of a series of co-operative events.

For example: To cause venril sathir to appear you would have to 'gather the shards of his phylactery' which could gained by extremely difficult quests in which you have to 1) kill regularly spawning 'uber mobs' that might take something like two groups of level 60 folks to kill 2) gather fragments through foraging (requires something like 20) then have them put together by a special forging process which requires a particular item that only blacksmiths can create and combine 3) cook 20 of a special recipe that had varied ingredients and which would only be sold (and cookable) by a master chef, then given to a quest NPC who would trade you the food items for the phylactery shard (which he had been using as an earring or something)..etc etc... Finally all the shards having to be brought together by a master jewelcrafter with a combine that they would have a 1% chance of actually failing. then giving the finished phylactery to a summoner NPC or something

You get where I'm going here. Something that would involve everyone, allow everyone an opportunity to fight the fella, make it DIFFICULT but not IMPOSSIBLE for small and casual guilds to fight someone like VS while still allowing HUGE guilds to fight the guy without FARMING him. Eliminates poopsocking because all of the parts dont have major respawn timers, and even the megamobs needed for individual parts wouldn't drop ANYTHING but a few copper and the piece. (which is lore etc)

Mind you: the guild could FAIL to defeat the enemy, in which case the rules of courtesy would apply about other guilds not sniping their summon, plus he'd be on a 24 hour despawn timer.

Other than having to code a few npcs and come up with a bit of lore, I don't see why this would be a bad thing? I know it's not 'pure classic' but 'pure classic' had huge problems, why not fix with verant/soe couldn't be arsed to fix in the first place?

[Knuckle]

It's not so much if you aren't sitting around on it's spawn point waiting for it.


Hiyyyoooo

but but but what if someone doesn't get pixels on one raid?

[Dragonmist]

They actually have a macro that when a mob spawns or an emote goes off it sends out a message in guild chat then connects online to send peoples cell phone a text about a mob. Kinda insane but it happened on Vulak Aerr for months and months and im sure Fippy had even more of it going on , basically any EQ server without instanced zones will be that way so eh just better to get used to it or move on and flame elsewhere.

[DarkwingDuck]

It's not so much if you aren't sitting around on it's spawn point waiting for it.


Hiyyyoooo

Ayooo

[pharmakos]

its like telling a stoner "yeah i'll sell you a bag sometime in the next like 4 days"

they're still gonna sit around waiting for it

[Vandy]

So my question is, Is this roll determined at the spawn of the NPC?

NPC A is killed so NPC A's spawn timer is rolled. The roll puts the respawn in the last 15% of it's window. Is the roll for the time added to the spawn immediately calculated or does it wait until the spawn timer has expired and then reroll the spawn.

If it is calculated at the beginning and there is no chance of us removing variance. Could the roll be as follows.
If NPC A will spawn in the last 15% of its window
then Spawn time is rerolled to to be within the first 85% of the spawn time or to add random hours up to 24 hours.

This would essentially give the NPC 7.5% chance to spawn in "Overtime" instead of the current 15% chance. This may help to reduce the variance times and also keep the extended windows in to prevent poopsocking as it was intended but would just be at a lesser % chance to extend these timers so long.

[pharmakos]

pixel addicts will figure out how to get their fix as quickly as possible, no matter what hurdles you put in front of 'em.

no variance, 2 day variance, 4 day+ variance.... the shit is still gonna get burnt up as soon as its available.

[CharlesBarkley]

I'm only new, not in a big guild (heck I mostly solo and haven't even gotten out of level 20 diapers yet!) and while I did play back in 1999 (on firiona vie and sullon zek) I never got in with the major theorycrafters so I guess my opinion might not hold much weight here....

But I always thought of it this way.


Why not make the appearance of heavy hitting raid mobs be a challenge rather than a timed surety?

Now this is from someone who has mostly played on RP servers, so perhaps I'm a bit biased; but I've always thought it would be amazing if raid fights were the result of a series of co-operative events.

For example: To cause venril sathir to appear you would have to 'gather the shards of his phylactery' which could gained by extremely difficult quests in which you have to 1) kill regularly spawning 'uber mobs' that might take something like two groups of level 60 folks to kill 2) gather fragments through foraging (requires something like 20) then have them put together by a special forging process which requires a particular item that only blacksmiths can create and combine 3) cook 20 of a special recipe that had varied ingredients and which would only be sold (and cookable) by a master chef, then given to a quest NPC who would trade you the food items for the phylactery shard (which he had been using as an earring or something)..etc etc... Finally all the shards having to be brought together by a master jewelcrafter with a combine that they would have a 1% chance of actually failing. then giving the finished phylactery to a summoner NPC or something

You get where I'm going here. Something that would involve everyone, allow everyone an opportunity to fight the fella, make it DIFFICULT but not IMPOSSIBLE for small and casual guilds to fight someone like VS while still allowing HUGE guilds to fight the guy without FARMING him. Eliminates poopsocking because all of the parts dont have major respawn timers, and even the megamobs needed for individual parts wouldn't drop ANYTHING but a few copper and the piece. (which is lore etc)

Mind you: the guild could FAIL to defeat the enemy, in which case the rules of courtesy would apply about other guilds not sniping their summon, plus he'd be on a 24 hour despawn timer.

Other than having to code a few npcs and come up with a bit of lore, I don't see why this would be a bad thing? I know it's not 'pure classic' but 'pure classic' had huge problems, why not fix with verant/soe couldn't be arsed to fix in the first place?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HiSNkIaJi_U&t=3s

[Motec]

the idea (and i could be wrong, Rogean please correct me if i am) is that if the variance is shortened it will increase the # of players poopsocking.

whereas, with the variance having a chance to reset, players are less likely to poopsock knowing it could be 6 hrs up to 30hrs until pop.

ultimately it's up to the players to decide how they wish to spend their time, you will always have guilds using trackers, but i expect to see a lot less of 100 people on VS or on trak or on any other raid mob spawn spot, because it adds a higher sense of randomness to when the pop will happen

<3


you were wrong.

change it. this is retarded.

[Fael]

Explain how he was wrong. Whether you agree with his stated purpose, what was done (increased variance) achieved a greater degree of the stated purposes (less sock).

Proposition #1: If the variance is shortened it will increase the # of players poopsocking.

Here you argue that a smaller window would decrease or not change the amount of players on a given spawn point at a given time. Such a position is not logical, because in fact the pay out chances for standing on spawn point increases over time when the window is set. At a certain point it becomes economical to sit 100 people on a spawn point. This is logical and this is what happened in the last 24 hours regularly.

Proposition #2: With the variance having a chance to reset, players are less likely to poopsock knowing it could be 6 hrs up to 30hrs until pop.

Irrefutable fact, there is dramatically less poopsocking now than before the change. Has there even been a trackanon poop (outside of FE jugg farming) since? For a span there, it seemed there was a trak poop sock with 100+ on spawn once a week for several months.

Proposition #3: i expect to see a lot less of 100 people on VS or on trak or on any other raid mob spawn spot, because it adds a higher sense of randomness to when the pop will happen.

Irrefutable fact. You can't argue otherwise unless you're capable of blocking out reality to stay strong in your position--the kind of person who watches sean hannity or bill mayer (other than for his humor).


Dolic

[Fael]

As i said: "whether you agree with his (Sirken's) stated purpose" he "is not wrong." /facepalm

I'll try to be more clear: What Motec and your argument is about is not whether he is right or wrong factually, but whether he is right or wrong on a substantive level. (i.e. the stated purpose is bad, not good).

My post did not miss the point: quoting someone and saying "your wrong so change it" is sort of stupid when he is actually correct in what he said. Fight the substantive fight if you want to, but state that you are doing so and not fighting the facts.

Here, you give your substantive argument: If there is ANY poopsocking, then we should just embrace it full tilt. Substantively, you believe it is more fair to have
set spawn timers, so every mob is contested like Noble.

That is a fine argument to have--i disagree because I don't think that is fun--but its a legit argument. I also don't believe it will get people more pixels--but they apparently don't think they get enough now, so any change is good, right? I think it will inevitably lead to more waking up at 3 am than I already do. No thanks.

Dolic

[Alarti0001]

you were wrong.

change it. this is retarded.

No you are.

[Champion_Standing]

Most effective fix for raid scene would be to remove all raid mobs from the game.

[Splorf22]

I think it depends a lot on what you call poop socking. People are still at their computers waiting for the mob to spawn, they just aren't actually logged in.