Evasive vs. Defensive

[RahlaeRuffian]

Hi everyone. I just wanted some clarification about when to use evasive and defensive. From what I've been told, you should use evasive for any mob that hits for under 700 points of damage and you should use defensive for any mob that hits for over that number. However, I still see most warriors or just people in general suggesting the tank use defensive. So if anyone knows for sure please post here. Most of my google searches aren't finding anything related to this for our timeline here. Then again I really haven't delved too deep into it yet. Thanks in advance.

[Splorf22]

What is relevant is the min and max hits. Defensive reduces the damage interval; evasive prevents you from getting hit at all. For example:

Min hit 1, Max hit 2000, with defensive you'll be getting hit for like 1000
Min hit 1000, Max hit 2000, with defensive you'll be getting hit for like 1500

[RahlaeRuffian]

That kind of answers my question, I guess. But I'm still not sure I follow 100%. Evasive lasts 3 mins just like defensive. So are you suggesting that a certain number of attacks will be evaded, but there is still a chance for the harder shots to land at their max hit while you are using your evasive discipline? I'm curious to know like which mobs you should use each discipline for. Do you go Evasive for all of the bosses or hard hitting mobs that aren't in Veeshan's Peak or on the last two isles of Sky? Or is there more to it than that?

[Hugmukk]

Defensive is just the upgrade to evasive, if your 55 or higher you should use defensive every time.

From 52 to 54 you should use evasive, once 55 though... Always defensive.

Edit: http://wiki.project1999.org/Disciplines#Warrior

[Hugmukk]

All of the other disciplines for warriors are extremely situational, the long reuse timer is a pain and if you need defensive but you just blew an offense ability you will kick yourself.

Also defensive is the strongest discipline in the game, without it hybrids would main tank for there aggro abilities.

15 minute cool down, 3 minute active = 12 minutes of down time. That's an excellent ratio.

[RahlaeRuffian]

I appreciate the replies but this doesn't seem like its right. Don't get me wrong, I could be totally wrong being all mixed up but I just feel like evasive works better than defensive sometimes on big mobs. It might be different when Velious drops but right now, it seems like most of the mobs that are bosses are best tanked using evasive (or a sk or pal if you got em).

[Fazlazen]

I appreciate the replies but this doesn't seem like its right. Don't get me wrong, I could be totally wrong being all mixed up but I just feel like evasive works better than defensive sometimes on big mobs. It might be different when Velious drops but right now, it seems like most of the mobs that are bosses are best tanked using evasive (or a sk or pal if you got em).

You take less damage usually while using evasive. The problem with evasive is if the mob doesn't miss you for a few rounds, you can go splat.

If you have a CH chain going on you, you can take alot of damage, so defensive is perfect because you will take alot of hits, but it will be consistent damage.

Splorff is also pretty spot on with his comment about the mob's min dmg. The higher the min dmg, the more effective evasive is compared to defensive.

Evasive has its use, even on raid mobs. Defensive is not the upgrade to it, but defensive is usually better.

[Splorf22]

I couldn't get the collumns right, but hopefully you can figure them out. The first number after the name is the DB(Damage Base, the base damage for the monster), the second number is the DI(Damage Interval, the time between strikes, this does not include and rampage, flurry, multiple attacks, etc), the third number is the Interger between 1 and 20 used to calculate the damage done by the monster. This is denoted as "x" in the formulas below. The last item is the best warrior discipline to use against that monster based on this data.

The formulas are:
Standard hit = DB+ x *DI (DB plus Integer times DI)
Minimum hit = DB+DI
Maximum hit= DB+20*DI

Avenging Gazer (PoA) 75 14.3 .19 Defensive
Azaracks (PoA) 55 6 .11 Evasive
Cazic Thule 200 20 .1 Evasive
Fierce Jungle/Tiger Raptor 100 6 .06 Evasive
Frenziend Jungle/Tiger Raptor 110 8 .07 Evasive
Gorgalask (PoA) 50 11 .22 Defensive
Heart Harpie (PoA) 75 15 .2 Defensive
Innoruuk 1 20 20 Defensive
Nagafen 75 7.5 .1 Evasive
Noble Dojorn (PoA) 37 13 .35 Defensive
Overseer of Air (PoA) 82 33 .4 Defensive
Priest of Discord 254 5.1 .02 Evasive
Shimmering Meteors (PoA) 113 10.5 .09 Evasive
Sirran the Lunatic 256 90 .35 Defensive
Spirited Harpy (PoA) 60 9.5 .16 Defensive
Tae Ew Bloodcaller 60 5 .08 Evasive
Tae Ew Defender 70 8 .11 Evasive
Tae Ew Protector 65 9 .14 Defensive
Thul Tae Ew Adept 100 11 .11 Evasive
Thul Tae Ew Defender 90 9 .1 Evasive
Thunder Spirits (PoA) 50 5 .1 Evasive
Watchful Guard (PoA) 50 12.5 .25 Defensive

KUNARK
Ancient Guardian wurm 90 12 .13 Evasive
elder shard wurm 90 9 .1 Evasive
Faydedar 76 7.5 .1 Evasive
Froglok Reet x 45 5 .11 Evasive
Myconid 45 5 .11 Evasive
Sebilite Juggernaut 55 6.1 .11 Evasive
Talendor 120 19 .16 Defensive
Trakanon 120 25 .21 Defensive
Vessel Drozlin 75 12 .16 Defensive
Vorash 60 6 .1 Evasive
Xenovorash 70 7.5 .11 Evasive

VELIOUS
a temple guardian 80 10 .13 Evasive
An Arcane Wyvern 100 12 .12 Evasive
Avatar of War 254 45 .18 Defensive
Dagarn the Destroyer 254 25 .1 Evasive
Derakor the Vindicator 200 25 .13 Evasive
Dlammaz (Kael) 80 21 .26 Defensive
Dozekar the Cursed 200 30 .15 Defensive
elder racnar 156 6 .04 Evasive
Flurry Drake 200 25 .13 Evasive
Frost Giant Sentinels (Kael) 80 21 .26 Defensive
glimmering emerald drake 90 12 .13 Evasive
Gozzrem 180 15 .08 Evasive
Kromzek Captain 60 10 .17 Defensive
Lord Feshlak 200 38 .19 Defensive
Lord Kreizenn 169 39 .23 Defensive
Seneschal Aldikar (Thurg) 90 12 .13 Evasive
Sontalak 125 15 .12 Evasive
Staff Sargeant Drioc (Kael) 45 4.5 .1 Evasive
Statue (Kael) 248 47.3 .19 Defensive
Vehement Wyvern 90 12 .13 Evasive
Velketor 185 35 .19 Defensive
Yelinak 100 25 .25 Defensive
Yetarr (Kael) 110 16 .15 Defensive

So basically he measured the min damage (first number) and the second number (damage interval) for each boss and then computed their ratio (third number). Defensive discipline affects the DI but not the DB, so the larger the DI is the more effective it is. It seems his threshold for crossing is about .14. Here is a fantastic example:

Cazic Thule 200 20 .1 Evasive
Innoruuk 1 20 20 Defensive

So, defensive will decrease CT's max hit to ~300 but Innoruuk's to ~200, even though they would both be hitting those inferior Paladins and SKs for 400 max. Note that I don't quite agree with this table; the other factor here is the mob's ATK relative to your AC. If you had infinite AC defensive would be worthless since the mob's damage interval would not really matter.

TL;DR: More AC, lower mob level/ATK, and higher DI relative to DB make evasive better relative to defensive.

[RahlaeRuffian]

Fucking awesome post dude! That's what I was looking for!

[arsenalpow]

From my experience the only encounter that's 100% defensive is queen bee in sky. Almost every other encounter evasive will suffice.

[Peekae]

Yeah evasive is nice most of the time IMO unless something hits extremely hard defensive can protect against the random spikes where they land.

So if something is going to Rock you with like 600 quads and you just need to be able to survive defensive will probably let you survive better over evasive.

[Noselacri]

Some mobs can't proc various things on miss. They're worth tanking with evasive.

[Reddi]

nice post