Cold Case Files: VP in Seb

[kotton05]

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This was 4 hours before the last Trakanon pop and happened up until trak actually popped, sound had to be muted to protect the identity of those harmed in the process. It's all over a prot/tola and the wonderful monks from TMO made it their vendetta to take out all their frustrations on unknowing non FD classes from FE while tracking Trak, you watch, you be the judge, once again sorry for now sound.

now onto the next piece of shocking evidence

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This doesn't catch the original trakanon pop (about a minute is missing) the kite lasted for about 2.5 mins. Wonder if thats how long it takes to position? a dragon and wait for multiple shrooms/aoes to go off... you watch, you be the judge, kept this one raw so you can truely get a grip on the exact scenario.

TMO went on to wipe to trak, then relentlessly tried to CR (multiple mishaps of trak being trained on FE raid from people CR'ing breaking line of sight and a certain somebody who got shroomed flopping with intentions of griefing FE).

I post this for the forum warriors across norrath. VP leaking into seb.

[Strifer]

I was really hoping that Bill Kurtis was going to be narrating these cold case files like on A&E, I am sorely let down.

[kotton05]

I'm sorry I couldn't get him on it, i was gonna go the extra mile but i fell short. Maybe next time strifer!

[OMGWTF420]

fight the power!

[xmonkx]

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This was 4 hours before the last Trakanon pop and happened up until trak actually popped, sound had to be muted to protect the identity of those harmed in the process. It's all over a prot/tola and the wonderful monks from TMO made it their vendetta to take out all their frustrations on unknowing non FD classes from FE while tracking Trak, you watch, you be the judge, once again sorry for now sound.

now onto the next piece of shocking evidence

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This doesn't catch the original trakanon pop (about a minute is missing) the kite lasted for about 2.5 mins. Wonder if thats how long it takes to position? a dragon and wait for multiple shrooms/aoes to go off... you watch, you be the judge, kept this one raw so you can truely get a grip on the exact scenario.

TMO went on to wipe to trak, then relentlessly tried to CR (multiple mishaps of trak being trained on FE raid from people CR'ing breaking line of sight and a certain somebody who got shroomed flopping with intentions of griefing FE).

I post this for the forum warriors across norrath. VP leaking into seb.

Be sure to crop out the fraps where FE trained our Prot - See Luchino's / Kaimandroth's corpse? White night more bro

[kotton05]

Be sure to crop out the fraps where FE trained our Prot - See Luchino's / Kaimandroth's corpse? White night more bro

I didn't crop shit, post it, this video was givin to me. I didn't name names, you sound guilty?

[Drob]

Be sure to crop out the fraps where FE trained our Prot - See Luchino's / Kaimandroth's corpse? White night more bro

If you're gonna train in the first video, at least run past poop mountain and pretend like you didn't realize you had aggro. You are pretty bad.

[Alarti0001]

This doesn't catch the original trakanon pop (about a minute is missing) the kite lasted for about 2.5 mins. Wonder if thats how long it takes to position? a dragon and wait for multiple shrooms/aoes to go off... you watch, you be the judge, kept this one raw so you can truely get a grip on the exact scenario.

TMO went on to wipe to trak, then relentlessly tried to CR (multiple mishaps of trak being trained on FE raid from people CR'ing breaking line of sight and a certain somebody who got shroomed flopping with intentions of griefing FE).

I post this for the forum warriors across norrath. VP leaking into seb.

Is this supposed to be the fraps of trakanon being trained and pingponged from someone who was shroomtouched?

[kotton05]

Is this supposed to be the fraps of trakanon being trained and pingponged from someone who was shroomtouched?

na, this is just the initial pop up until your engage.

[falkun]

Be sure to crop out the fraps where FE trained our Prot - See Luchino's / Kaimandroth's corpse? White night more bro

He's not saying its the full story. In fact he specifically states its a small part of the shit-flinging back and forth between both guilds ("4 hours before Trak", "doesn't catch initial Trak pop"). However, he posted evidence when TMO asked for it. TMO wipes, and it takes them ~1m17s to engage (0:00 until I see TMO surrounding Trak at ~1:17 with the Vent comment "they're going in"). That's a long ass kite for a dragon that shouldn't be leaving its lair. On top of that, both sides were down there for hours. Once you wipe, get the fuck out the way for the next guild to engage. "Messing up the CR" (or more likely interfering with another guild's engage) is a dick move when you KNOW you lost. You jumped the engage and lost. And now your "prove it" stance has gotten your fuck-up publicly plastered on the forums.

[Funkutron5000]

Merkk doing the Lord's Work.

[radditsu]

You guys are not only scumbags, but you are scumbags that can't even win when they cheat.

http://i.imgur.com/B61h2ES.jpg

[MaksimMazor]

Have you accepted Beavis Christ as your lord and savior

[Alarti0001]

He's not saying its the full story. In fact he specifically states its a small part of the shit-flinging back and forth between both guilds ("4 hours before Trak", "doesn't catch initial Trak pop"). However, he posted evidence when TMO asked for it. TMO wipes, and it takes them ~1m17s to engage (0:00 until I see TMO surrounding Trak at ~1:17 with the Vent comment "they're going in"). That's a long ass kite for a dragon that shouldn't be leaving its lair. On top of that, both sides were down there for hours. Once you wipe, get the fuck out the way for the next guild to engage. "Messing up the CR" (or more likely interfering with another guild's engage) is a dick move when you KNOW you lost. You jumped the engage and lost. And now your "prove it" stance has gotten your fuck-up publicly plastered on the forums.


I don't see evidence of training. I see evidence of a delayed engage that failed... this was already known.

Wipe your mouth and come back when you are less frothy lol.

[Alarti0001]

You guys are not only scumbags, but you are scumbags that can't even win when they cheat.



Please tell me where the cheating was in those video?

[getsome]

if your gonna train on a monk, buy an aon.

if you get agro on poop mt., just run across the water, and camp out against the wall on the ledge, near the little spire.

[kotton05]

the after evidence is in others hands, training occurred b4 trak popped + after you wiped, I posted the before because the after is on the down low being reviewed

[Funkutron5000]

Damnit Tanrin, everytime you post I want to watch Hot Rod again.

[falkun]

I don't see evidence of training.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=qQPjM7NWIm8&t=0m25s
Look in the bottom right, that is player "Sericx" of TMO in case you can't read. You'll notice when he FDs at 0:27, the train stops, completely unaggroed on ANYONE. The next aggro check, the train (which I've already shown only had aggro on Sericx) starts attacking Aviendhar at 0:34 and Tanasg at 0:39. Now, we also know the mobs would not have aggroed Tanasg and Aviendhar if they had not been trained by Sericx because Tanasg never moved from his spot since the FRAPs started and the beginning of the FRAPs shows the train unaggroed down at Tola's spawn. If you need additional FRAPs analysis, please let me know.

[radditsu]

Please tell me where the cheating was in those video?

Training people on poop mountain is not cheating? Oh I'm sorry then. It's checking the servers aggro mechanics!

Running around kiting /ping ponging a dragon is not illegal? I thought we were supposed to engage him at a reasonable time frame without shenanigans! 1:17 running around a dragon in his lair is not a kite or a delay at all!

Thank you Alarti, I have seen my errors and have indeed become enlightened.

[radditsu]

Damnit Tanrin, everytime you post I want to watch Hot Rod again.

Spirit of the bottle-nosed dolphin

[xmonkx]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=qQPjM7NWIm8&t=0m25s
Look in the bottom right, that is player "Sericx" of TMO in case you can't read. You'll notice when he FDs at 0:27, the train stops, completely unaggroed on ANYONE. The next aggro check, the train (which I've already shown only had aggro on Sericx) starts attacking Aviendhar at 0:34 and Tanasg at 0:39. Now, we also know the mobs would not have aggroed Tanasg and Aviendhar if they had not been trained by Sericx because Tanasg never moved from his spot since the FRAPs started and the beginning of the FRAPs shows the train unaggroed down at Tola's spawn. If you need additional FRAPs analysis, please let me know.

Again, watch the video slowly, lets see the fraps 2 mins before this when we got trained from FE - again see Luchino//Kaimandroth's corpse. Its ok, im sure this will not pop up in this threads. Proceed to white night more

[Kieu]

sericx says, "fucking lag is killing me"

good one

[xmonkx]

sericx says, "fucking lag is killing me"

good one

Yep was lagging all night there breh you didnt know?

[Funkutron5000]

Spirit of the bottle-nosed dolphin

My safeword will always be Whiskey

[kotton05]

Again, watch the video slowly, lets see the fraps 2 mins before this when we got trained from FE - again see Luchino//Kaimandroth's corpse. Its ok, im sure this will not pop up in this threads. Proceed to white night more

There was multiple trains I heard (from who I don't know) but this is only fraps I received. But in your eyes 2 wrongs make a right? Keep reaching.

[falkun]

Again, watch the video slowly, lets see the fraps 2 mins before this when we got trained from FE - again see Luchino//Kaimandroth's corpse. Its ok, im sure this will not pop up in this threads. Proceed to white night more

Then post it! Follow the TMO philosophy: FRAPs or GTFO.

[Kieu]

Yep was lagging all night there breh you didnt know?

Why would you be pulling then you fucking retard.

[Alarti0001]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=qQPjM7NWIm8&t=0m25s
Look in the bottom right, that is player "Sericx" of TMO in case you can't read. You'll notice when he FDs at 0:27, the train stops, completely unaggroed on ANYONE. The next aggro check, the train (which I've already shown only had aggro on Sericx) starts attacking Aviendhar at 0:34 and Tanasg at 0:39. Now, we also know the mobs would not have aggroed Tanasg and Aviendhar if they had not been trained by Sericx because Tanasg never moved from his spot since the FRAPs started and the beginning of the FRAPs shows the train unaggroed down at Tola's spawn. If you need additional FRAPs analysis, please let me know.

I'm sorry I was concerned with this "trak train" claim. Not juggs, I just skimmed through looking for trak, since the prior discussion was about intentional training/ping-ponging.

Scope drift much?

[Funkutron5000]

Why would you be pulling then you fucking retard.

To have a good excuse to train people, duh.

[xmonkx]

Then post it! Follow the TMO philosophy: FRAPs or GTFO.

Sorry bro, I dont need video confirmation from RnF to make my self esteem go up. The people who were involved know exactly what happened and how it happened. I dont need approval from no one. thanks!

[Rellapse10]

glad to see after 2 years of Tmo killing the same target one thing has stayed the same since back when they couldn't even break fear. YOU CLOWNS SUCK @ THIS GAME

[kotton05]

I'm sorry I was concerned with this "trak train" claim. Not juggs, I just skimmed through looking for trak, since the prior discussion was about intentional training/ping-ponging.

Scope drift much?

he's talking about the first video.

The issue youre concerned about is in a diff fraps that wont leak or be posted.

[Alarti0001]

glad to see after 2 years of Tmo killing the same target one thing has stayed the same since back when they couldn't even break fear. YOU CLOWNS SUCK @ THIS GAME

Coming from guy who joins IB which then falls/fails then runs to EQmac to kill velious with AA and new combat tables.

Thanks Relapse!

[Kieu]

To have a good excuse to train people, duh.

More or less. THIS LAG, woah I can't even post. This fucking lag it's killing me.

[falkun]

Please find where I stated Trak was trained. If you are talking about something I'm not discussing, quoting me just makes you look stupid.

[Ele]

The issue youre concerned about is in a diff fraps that wont leak or be posted.

3 days of "processing" and now it won't be released. such a tease.

[Rellapse10]

Coming from guy who joins IB which then falls/fails then runs to EQmac to kill velious with AA and new combat tables.

Thanks Relapse!

dunno bout you but IB killed Trak with 19 you clowns just wiped with over 30 you should go play Quake or something b/c Everquest is not for you.

[Alarti0001]

Please find where I stated Trak was trained. If you are talking about something I'm not discussing, quoting me just makes you look stupid.

Im not discussing anything with you... You aren't in FE are you? You also didnt claim to have video proof of TMO pinponging Trak to shrooms and back.

You are third party troll. GTFO lel

[Rellapse10]

^mad

[Alarti0001]

dunno bout you but IB killed Trak with 19 you clowns just wiped with over 30 you should go play Quake or something b/c Everquest is not for you.

TMO has killed trak with 17 and I've seen IB/TR wipe to trak with 60.... anything else?

[falkun]

Im not discussing anything with you... You aren't in FE are you? You also didnt claim to have video proof of TMO pinponging Trak to shrooms and back.

You are third party troll. GTFO lel

You haven't made a single post in this thread without quoting me. Why do you keep quoting me if you are not discussing anything with me?

[kotton05]

3 days of "processing" and now it won't be released. such a tease.

The original processing got put on hold for RL issues, I gotta have a hook to keep ya coming back for more=-)

I do have something special in the merkk fizzles saga tho, just waiting for alarti to prove it can be easily replicated first.

[Rellapse10]

TMO has killed trak with 17 and I've seen IB/TR wipe to trak with 60.... anything else?

prove it

[Alarti0001]

prove it

you first.

[Alarti0001]

You haven't made a single post in this thread without quoting me. Why do you keep quoting me if you are not discussing anything with me?

You responded to my posts.... so its only courteous to give you a response. I will ignore your inane rampblings from now on if you prefer. You really have become nothing more than a more vocal anthrax.

[Rellapse10]

it has been well noted throughout rants n flames of IB's kill and the fraps just showed you clowns wiping with 30+ .... i see no mention of Tmo's kill

[Alarti0001]

The original processing got put on hold for RL issues, I gotta have a hook to keep ya coming back for more=-)

I do have something special in the merkk fizzles saga tho, just waiting for alarti to prove it can be easily replicated first.

There is no amount of "proof" I can link that you won't poke holes in. I'f i did it on a private eqemu server you could just say I modified the server in some way, or I modified the logs. I have no reason to lie to you or to lie to anyone on here ever, so I don't. If you think Zeelot is stupid enough to doctor a log and also add in a monk fizzling...... well I will just have to laugh at your idiocy.

I'll see if I can get a Developer to respond if you would accept that as proof?

[Alarti0001]

it has been well noted throughout rants n flames of IB's kill

it hasn't as I remembered the kill.. you had 19 after deaths. mid 20's on engage. Prove it... link that video :)

[kotton05]

Sorry bro, I dont need video confirmation from RnF to make my self esteem go up. The people who were involved know exactly what happened and how it happened. I dont need approval from no one. thanks!

Approval of what?...

This isn't for self esteem, this is for the forum questers entertainment, i'm sure there are others in your guild that don't approve of your actions (not that youre seeking approval from them since its clear you dgaf) , many TMO are sound quality players with normal lives and want to just be cool with folks while playing EQ, while you on the other hand are just an idiot shit show.

[Rellapse10]

TMO has killed trak with 17

never happened

[Alarti0001]

Approval of what?...

This isn't for self esteem, this is for the forum questers entertainment, i'm sure there are others in your guild that don't approve of your actions (not that youre seeking approval from them since its clear you dgaf) , many TMO are sound quality players with normal lives and want to just be cool with folks while playing EQ, while you on the other hand are just an idiot shit show.

Lag/Desync/Server problems = Idiot monk?

Derp.

[Alarti0001]

it hasn't as I remembered the kill.. you had 19 after deaths. mid 20's on engage. Prove it... link that video :)

never happened

[kotton05]

Lag/Desync/Server problems = Idiot monk?

Derp.

convenient excuse, there was no lag, late hours the server runs fine, at the times this took place, between 5-8am east, the server is low pop, there for max bandwidth for everyone. Derp.

ps if it was a desync... then fraps would of lagged out too since everyone would of experienced it. this isn't plane of fear with 100+ logging in and out at same time.

[Alarti0001]

convenient excuse, there was no lag, late hours the server runs fine, at the times this took place, between 5-8am east, the server is low pop, there for max bandwidth for everyone. Derp.

ps if it was a desync... then fraps would of lagged out too since everyone would of experienced it. this isn't plane of fear with 100+ logging in and out at same time.

Raids have desynced in Trak's lair many times. You can't deny this.

Lag/Desync(what a non IT pro player might call it) is not even close to completely dependent on the server.

But I guess it depends on your outlook. I prefer to say someone is innocent until proven guilty, where as you seem to know someones intentions.

ESP?

[Rellapse10]

Tmo found out how to desync zones to their advantage long ago they would do it to us on every CT encounter got so bad my best fran Perun had to take matters into his own hands.

[kotton05]

Raids have desynced in Trak's lair many times. You can't deny this.

Lag/Desync(what a non IT pro player might call it) is not even close to completely dependent on the server.

But I guess it depends on your outlook. I prefer to say someone is innocent until proven guilty, where as you seem to know someones intentions.

ESP?

Zones will desync, but I have never had it happen at 6am east when there is no one on the server. There has been desync during a raid encounters time and time again... just not when 1 group of FE and 2 tmo are sitting there.

He can cry lag, but why is he pulling if his crew is dead, was he lagged out for half an hour? Makes no sense, the claim holds no grounds. "Sorry officer I didn't know I couldn't do that" yup.

[radditsu]

never happened

Sure it did, Ivandyr has a great hoop.

[Alarti0001]

Zones will desync, but I have never had it happen at 6am east when there is no one on the server. There has been desync during a raid encounters time and time again... just not when 1 group of FE and 2 tmo are sitting there.

He can cry lag, but why is he pulling if his crew is dead, was he lagged out for half an hour? Makes no sense, the claim holds no grounds. "Sorry officer I didn't know I couldn't do that" yup.

Was he pulling it looks like he might have had aggro he didnt know he had(since the juggs were reset) he stoodup and couldnt/didnt see over a hill.

Also, because something doesnt make sense to you, it doesn't mean the claim doesnt hold ground.

Why was he pulling... maybe he was pulling... corpses?

Your claim holds no grounds. You see one option and assume that is the only once because it fits your bias.

[Raavak]

Why was he pulling... maybe he was pulling... corpses?Pulling corpses after a wipe? Whatever! Spew some more tin foil hat theories.

[kotton05]

Was he pulling it looks like he might have had aggro he didnt know he had(since the juggs were reset) he stoodup and couldnt/didnt see over a hill.

Also, because something doesnt make sense to you, it doesn't mean the claim doesnt hold ground.

Why was he pulling... maybe he was pulling... corpses?

Your claim holds no grounds. You see one option and assume that is the only once because it fits your bias.

I never claimed one way or another, just saying his "lag" claim is bull because of the other 2 hours of training that happened=-) this is just a snippet of the fiasco, am I biased? yes, does it mean I'm wrong nope. Can you prove otherwise, nope.

So he was doing a CR.. lets see, tola+jugs non agro, while he is standing there, they come up and he fd's, wipes out a small group of FE, then stands again and jugs insta agro again. What am I missing?

[AenarieFenninRo]

What I found interesting in the second video is the following:
Visceral says in your guild chat "I have social agro"
then you see someone flash out of lich form on far side of lair
Person who was in lich is wearing dark blue robe white helm or face (known gear of Visceral)
Same person is seen running around the far side of the lair from camera with trak running after him... goes off camera, comes back, goes off again, and comes back again... and even lives right up until the 1:17 mark, after that its harder to keep track of them because camera keeps panning in and out of gnome vision.

I would say that i'm 90% sure thats Visceral... first the person comes out of lich form, and Visceral wears that dark blue robe. Cant be 100% on that because too far to see name... that is also the same person that runs around quite a bit with trak following, and the whole time that its happening Visceral has gone silent in guild chat

Now I grant you that is all anecdotal evidence, but without seeing the name you cant say that it WASNT or WAS.

[cs616]

Just for future reference, are you implying that TMO wouldn't have a problem with FE training them as long as we did it while pulling corpses, claimed we were lagging, and said it was an accident?

[Alarti0001]

I never claimed one way or another, this is just a snippet of the fiasco, am I biased? yes, does it mean I'm wrong nope.

What 2 hrs of training?

I'll just remove all but your point.

yes bias doesn't mean you are wrong. But you can't seem to prove that you are right. My claim is that no one in TMO was ping ponging Trakanon to shroom lair.

Your point seems to be... bad stuff happened ... it was TMO's fault....althought I am not really claiming it was TMO's fault......

[Alarti0001]

Just for future reference, are you implying that TMO wouldn't have a problem with FE training them as long as we did it while pulling corpses, claimed we were lagging, and said it was an accident?

Nope but we dont petition obvious accidents unlike our competition. When we have had petition of multiple trains we are clear with GM's of what we think were accidents, like the Corova jugg train awhile back.

[maverixdamighty]

Nope but we dont petition obvious accidents unlike our competition. When we have had petition of multiple trains we are clear with GM's of what we think were accidents, like the Corova jugg train awhile back.

TROLL

[Rellapse10]

Alarti just give it a rest bro that last Trak you fucked up.

Fact: you made the call to engage.

Fact: it was 2 early.

Fact: you are a poor raid leader even poorer RnF spokesman.

Fact: your 20 monks kept Trak "busy" while you tried to rez to get another attempt.

Fact: FE owned you.

[kotton05]

What I found interesting in the second video is the following:
Visceral says in your guild chat "I have social agro"
then you see someone flash out of lich form on far side of lair
Person who was in lich is wearing dark blue robe white helm or face (known gear of Visceral)
Same person is seen running around the far side of the lair from camera with trak running after him... goes off camera, comes back, goes off again, and comes back again... and even lives right up until the 1:17 mark, after that its harder to keep track of them because camera keeps panning in and out of gnome vision.

I would say that i'm 90% sure thats Visceral... first the person comes out of lich form, and Visceral wears that dark blue robe. Cant be 100% on that because too far to see name... that is also the same person that runs around quite a bit with trak following, and the whole time that its happening Visceral has gone silent in guild chat

Now I grant you that is all anecdotal evidence, but without seeing the name you cant say that it WASNT or WAS.

yea this video is posted cause names can't be made out, inconclusive on who is doing what since I don't wanna dam anyone who doesn't deserve it, they was doing what was planned (I don't think the majority had malicious intent) , but im sure after this some will think twice about kiting trak or doing a giant FTE chain, this isn't VS, which a tactic like that is expected.

I know that I was in lair (monk is red) and I think visc was also at one point. Getting hit by AoE isn't a social agro, which is I think what visc thought his social agro was from. I'd have to hear visc's story, but as far as I know this isn't a case of who dun it, more like actions of a whole.

[Ele]

I like how Szeth was dead in lair with gear before the fraps even started.

[Alarti0001]

Alarti just give it a rest bro that last Trak you fucked up.

Fact: you made the call to engage.

Fact: it was 2 early.

Fact: you are a poor raid leader even poorer RnF spokesman.

Fact: your 20 monks kept Trak "busy" while you tried to rez to get another attempt.

Fact: FE owned you.

LOL....

I didn't make a call to engage. I never do.

I agree it was too early

I am not a raid leader at all haha

more BS

Sure

[Funkutron5000]

Nope but we dont petition obvious accidents unlike our competition. When we have had petition of multiple trains we are clear with GM's of what we think were accidents, like the Corova jugg train awhile back.

That derp of a pull is going to be my eternal shame on this server

[kotton05]

Nope but we dont petition obvious accidents unlike our competition. When we have had petition of multiple trains we are clear with GM's of what we think were accidents, like the Corova jugg train awhile back.

I proved it, you have no proof, while I agree with points as accidents/desyncs can happen, my own judgement leans towards malicious intent between the ikky and human TMO monks present in the evidence

....if it was accident I would of expected a sincere apology to be seen or talked about. Nothing happened, ohh and about accidents, I've talked to a few of the people who we're CR'ing and aggro'd trak from TMO, I didn't call them out cause it was clearly an accident and didn't post damning evidence about them.

I kept this to a minimal call out not using names to single out any one person. As I do have respect for many TMO members. For we all share the a passion for the most hardcore MMO game out there.

[Alarti0001]

I proved it, you have no proof, while I agree with points as accidents/desyncs can happen, my own judgement leans towards malicious intent between the ikky and human TMO monks present in the evidence

....if it was accident I would of expected a sincere apology to be seen or talked about. Nothing happened, ohh and about accidents, I've talked to a few of the people who we're CR'ing and aggro'd trak from TMO, I didn't call them out cause it was clearly an accident and didn't post damning evidence about them.

I kept this to a minimal call out not using names to single out any one person. As I do have respect for many TMO members. For we all share the a passion for the most hardcore MMO game out there.

What did ya prove? Anything related to your original statements or just red herrings?

[47shadesofgay]

LOL....

I didn't make a call to engage. I never do.

I agree it was too early

I am not a raid leader at all haha

more BS

Sure

So you don't lead raids, you don't sell things (eccezan) and you don't call engages..

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[cs616]

Nope but we dont petition obvious accidents unlike our competition.

Yea, you guys petitioned me for training when I had just logged back in less than 2 minutes prior, was hidden and AFK getting food. I would have had to eat a week long suspension if I wasn't paranoid and running logs all the time. Also nothing about that first video is obviously accidental. It very well could have been accidental, but certainly not obviously so. Given my past experience getting petitioned by you guys I find it hard to believe you would give one of our players the benefit of the doubt you would like us to give your players.

[47shadesofgay]

DKP bitch/secretary?

[Kieu]

sericx says, "fucking lag is killing me"

[kotton05]

What did ya prove? Anything related to your original statements or just red herrings?

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[47shadesofgay]

Has the Sericx train been reported? I need to know, as I will be submitting a petition with Falkun's analysis when I get home tonight if not.

[AenarieFenninRo]

yea this video is posted cause names can't be made out, inconclusive on who is doing what since I don't wanna dam anyone who doesn't deserve it, they was doing what was planned (I don't think the majority had malicious intent) , but im sure after this some will think twice about kiting trak or doing a giant FTE chain, this isn't VS, which a tactic like that is expected.

This is compounded by the statement:
This doesn't catch the original trakanon pop (about a minute is missing) the kite lasted for about 2.5 mins. Wonder if thats how long it takes to position? a dragon and wait for multiple shrooms/aoes to go off

While I'm a nice guy and will take your statement at face value that you're not saying "who did what" Merkk, posting the second video with the first implies that you're stating the second was also the same people who did the first. To add to that the quote about positioning, which FE has blasted TMO for in the past, this is consistent with a fallacy called poisoning the well (http://www.logicallyfallacious.com/index.php/logical-fallacies/141-poisoning-the-well).

Because I am taking your statement at face value that you're not trying to be biased, my suggestion for the future would be that next time post the videos into separate threads, and ask people to then watch, and ask who in the video did what. They may not be able to say names, but they can say "the guy in the blue robe with the white helm / mask"

At that point, people are drawing their own conclusions, not the conclusions you're pointing them toward.

[Servellious]

TMO has killed trak with 17 and I've seen IB/TR wipe to trak with 60.... anything else?

I've seen Tmo wipe to trak 5 times with 30+ in the past 2 months please go crawl back under your rock and cuddle with Alawen

[quido]

I soloed Trak and I saw FE wipe to Trak with a raidforce of over a thousand players

[maverixdamighty]

I soloed Trak and I saw FE wipe to Trak with a raidforce of over a thousand players

confirmed.

[kotton05]

This is compounded by the statement:


While I'm a nice guy and will take your statement at face value that you're not saying "who did what" Merkk, posting the second video with the first implies that you're stating the second was also the same people who did the first. To add to that the quote about positioning, which FE has blasted TMO for in the past, this is consistent with a fallacy called poisoning the well (http://www.logicallyfallacious.com/index.php/logical-fallacies/141-poisoning-the-well).

Because I am taking your statement at face value that you're not trying to be biased, my suggestion for the future would be that next time post the videos into separate threads, and ask people to then watch, and ask who in the video did what. They may not be able to say names, but they can say "the guy in the blue robe with the white helm / mask"

At that point, people are drawing their own conclusions, not the conclusions you're pointing them toward.

I see, I should of posted 2 thread as to not draw stuff towards the 2 TMO in the first video?

Its hard to separate own personal bias. I do agree maybe I could of done the post differently as to not direct attention towards them, wasn't my intention to correlate that the people in first vid are responsible for the 2nd video, guess I didn't make that clear enough.

Thanks for elaborating on that point. I am not perfect and do accept your points 100%. I was just trying to paint how I felt + let other draw evidence from what I gathered, I do not have much of a story from the TMO side as there is 2 sides to every story. So I understand how the onlooker could draw that the first video's culprits are directly correlated to what happens in the second.

[Godefroi]

What I found interesting in the second video is the following:
Visceral says in your guild chat "I have social agro"
then you see someone flash out of lich form on far side of lair
Person who was in lich is wearing dark blue robe white helm or face (known gear of Visceral)
Same person is seen running around the far side of the lair from camera with trak running after him... goes off camera, comes back, goes off again, and comes back again... and even lives right up until the 1:17 mark, after that its harder to keep track of them because camera keeps panning in and out of gnome vision.

I would say that i'm 90% sure thats Visceral... first the person comes out of lich form, and Visceral wears that dark blue robe. Cant be 100% on that because too far to see name... that is also the same person that runs around quite a bit with trak following, and the whole time that its happening Visceral has gone silent in guild chat

Now I grant you that is all anecdotal evidence, but without seeing the name you cant say that it WASNT or WAS.

I wear a black and green robe from VP even at trak since I don't care about resists and just DA. So nope, wasnt me. I stalled With 3DAs but I didnt have FTE, trakanon pinged on me 30 seconds then I got shroomed and died. It's not on the video.

[maverixdamighty]

I see, I should of posted 2 thread as to not draw stuff towards the 2 TMO in the first video?

Its hard to separate own personal bias. I do agree maybe I could of done the post differently as to not direct attention towards them, wasn't my intention to correlate that the people in first vid are responsible for the 2nd video, guess I didn't make that clear enough.

Thanks for elaborating on that point. I am not perfect and do accept your points 100%. I was just trying to paint how I felt + let other draw evidence from what I gathered, I do not have much of a story from the TMO side as there is 2 sides to every story. So I understand how the onlooker could draw that the first video's culprits are directly correlated to what happens in the second.

you could have put it in 1000 different posts the conclusion would still be the same.

[Godefroi]

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This was 4 hours before the last Trakanon pop and happened up until trak actually popped, sound had to be muted to protect the identity of those harmed in the process. It's all over a prot/tola and the wonderful monks from TMO made it their vendetta to take out all their frustrations on unknowing non FD classes from FE while tracking Trak, you watch, you be the judge, once again sorry for now sound.

now onto the next piece of shocking evidence

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This doesn't catch the original trakanon pop (about a minute is missing) the kite lasted for about 2.5 mins. Wonder if thats how long it takes to position? a dragon and wait for multiple shrooms/aoes to go off... you watch, you be the judge, kept this one raw so you can truely get a grip on the exact scenario.

TMO went on to wipe to trak, then relentlessly tried to CR (multiple mishaps of trak being trained on FE raid from people CR'ing breaking line of sight and a certain somebody who got shroomed flopping with intentions of griefing FE).

I post this for the forum warriors across norrath. VP leaking into seb.

Safe to assume xButthurtx will get a suspension outta those rage trains lol

[Chloroform]

OH GOD AALPHA'S IN THE BACK OF THE LAYER. WHAT A SNIPER, OMG OMG OMG

[AenarieFenninRo]

I wear a black and green robe from VP even at trak since I don't care about resists and just DA. So nope, wasnt me. I stalled With 3DAs but I didnt have FTE, trakanon pinged on me 30 seconds then I got shroomed and died. It's not on the video.

Again, to take at face value from a statement, it wasn't you

Can anyone identify who is the person in the second video in the dark blue robe that is a necro, and appears to not have his epic but some dark colored stick of sorts?

Darkdeath appears on screen with him at the same time, so we know its not him (again, assumption that the light blue / duckstaff was darkdeath)

Inquiring minds WANT TO KNOW!

We will find you!

[AenarieFenninRo]

Can anyone identify who is the person in the second video in the dark blue robe that is a necro, and appears to not have his epic but some dark colored stick of sorts?


Maybe thats white hair not a helm... Dark Elf model? I doubt we're talking of guise here since it goes directly from Lich to normal model while running so cast time on guise would be out.

[kotton05]

Maybe thats white hair not a helm... Dark Elf model? I doubt we're talking of guise here since it goes directly from Lich to normal model while running so cast time on guise would be out.

since I was there I could check logs from that encounter to find the white haired mystery necro lol since I think I see him/her casting a spell.

[Godefroi]

Darkdeath appears in the video yeah.

but that was like 1min30 to 2mins after he had spawned.

I was already dead in @ shrooms lol

the 1 hour ping pong done by TMO to stall FE doesn't appear in the videos, doesn't matter much, we all know what happened there.

More training for VP I guess :D

[AenarieFenninRo]

since I was there I could check logs from that encounter to find the white haired mystery necro lol since I think I see him/her casting a spell.

The only person I see casting in the video at the aprox time based on the casting animation is Orgen, but later in /gu he asked for DMF, so I am going to go out on a limb and say that the video's casting is of people up on ledge, not the guy inside.

Merkk, your logs may not show it either, since he appears to cast before you're in game.

[AenarieFenninRo]

The only person I see casting in the video at the aprox time based on the casting animation is Orgen, but later in /gu he asked for DMF, so I am going to go out on a limb and say that the video's casting is of people up on ledge, not the guy inside.

Merkk, your logs may not show it either, since he appears to cast before you're in game.

Person with best chance to have it in their logs is probably Darkdeath based on his proximity to the person and Trak when the casting animation goes off.

[kotton05]

Well Since I was in the lair, would I see "trak tries to hit soandso but is invuln"? otherwise yea I don't think I could find it as its a mix in the fraps that is of TMO/fe buff spam.

[kotton05]

yea don't see nada of that except baxter was first to damage him on your engage.

[AenarieFenninRo]

You might Merkk, didn't think about that part...

Imba tells the guild "Back edhe of ledge"
Nomelas tells the guild "LFG"

And you have two casts very shortly after that

See if you have any invlunerable messages in that section of your log as the person ran right over the top of you.

In trying to synch up something that DD can reference in his logs as well and I see "Trakanon beams a smile at Toleez", followed by "Trakanon begins to cast a spell" while being dragged to back of lair and the blue robe casting...

Obviously the easiest would be to synch with something in FE's guild chat since thats what displays in video, but that wont be in DD's logs ;)

I just dont know if DD was close enough when Trak lifetapped Toleez to have that in his logs along with being close enough to "Mr. Blue Robe"

[Funkutron5000]

yea don't see nada of that except baxter was first to damage him on your engage.

Did he also eat the entire wheel of cheese?

[AenarieFenninRo]

You might Merkk, didn't think about that part...

Imba tells the guild "Back edhe of ledge"


I am going to assume Imba doesn't misspell that often, should be easy enough to search for.

[kenzar]

Does anyone else read these threads backwards when trying to catch up? Lol I'm so lost. Is tmo cheating or is it FE? Someone TL;DR it for me.

[Skope]

Does anyone else read these threads backwards when trying to catch up? Lol I'm so lost. Is tmo cheating or is it FE? Someone TL;DR it for me.

I'll sum it up in a picture.

http://thechive.files.wordpress.com/2013/04/tuesday-dar-46.jpg?w=500&h=500

[Ele]

I'll sum it up in a picture.

http://thechive.files.wordpress.com/2013/04/tuesday-dar-46.jpg?w=500&h=500

This is funny and applicable to the majority of RNF threads.

[kotton05]

hahaha that pic is priceless

[ivosik]

hmmm which top guild do i want to join, the taddle tale guild(FE) or the bullys (TMO).

[kotton05]

Hmm well they always ask for proof! I didn't petition anyone just posted evidence. Not sure what others did with this footage.

[chief]

hey merkk, great job in vp

[kotton05]

hey merkk, great job in vp

Thanks. Wasn't enough to hold you back long enough for another attempt on SW (crappyfeet lurking was a good move on your part), grats

[Chloroform]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HFxxIHKT1mk

I like this fraps! AALPHA loots the big bad sniper!

SKIP to 00:48 LOL love it. That pally is to Confused to even Speak, why send in someone to FTE when they have no idea whats happening. i love marijuana can this pally share his stash?

[Godefroi]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HFxxIHKT1mk

I like this fraps! AALPHA loots the big bad sniper!

SKIP to 00:48 LOL love it. That pally is to Confused to even Speak, why send in someone to FTE when they have no idea whats happening. i love marijuana can this pally share his stash?

still less confused than TMO wondering if they had FTE :D

[Chloroform]

still less confused than TMO wondering if they had FTE :D

i wont argue about that one. but nonetheless your boi is very funny. i want his stash its probably the bombdiggity. if ur from NY lets party like its 1999!

[Stalahoy]

It's official folks. Sericx is the biggest idiot on the server forums! Harrison is gonna be pissed

[Funkutron5000]

Sorry, Aalpha. No reefers were involved. It was more the getting out of bed/ being exhausted thing going on there. I'm not good at words sometimes.

[kotton05]

i wont argue about that one. but nonetheless your boi is very funny. i want his stash its probably the bombdiggity. if ur from NY lets party like its 1999!

Corova is amazing palaman, don't even think he smokes aalpha. But like you I wanna party with him.

[Chloroform]

sounded like me tripping on acid trying to explain what is reality.

His description of me sniping fte was along those lines.

[Chloroform]

Aalpha, is uh, took, uh, umm.

Life is uh, took, uh, umm.

[Captivate]

sound had to be muted to protect the identity of those harmed in the process.

i knew i should of said anything about how stupid and angry you nerds sound in vent when you get trained.

damnit

[Funkutron5000]

Aalpha, is uh, took, uh, umm.

Life is uh, took, uh, umm.

Seemed like as good a time as any to contemplate the bigger questions in the universe.

[Godefroi]

Aalpha, is uh, took, uh, umm.

Life is uh, took, uh, umm.

Oh well the guy who said those words likes weed too :D

[kotton05]

i knew i should of said anything about how stupid and angry you nerds sound in vent when you get trained.

damnit

I wasn't there. I wouldn't say nerd rage , sounded more like Sericx bashing.

[kotton05]

Because weed is so bad.

p.s your ugly hunchback french nerd

Don't forget to bring a towel!

[xmonkx]

I wasn't there. I wouldn't say nerd rage , sounded more like Sericx bashing.

Nah I bet vent sounded something like , Yep thats what we get for training him 1st

[kotton05]

Nope. You trained got caught end of story. 2 wrongs don't make a right.

[Alarti0001]

Nope. You trained got caught end of story. 2 wrongs don't make a right.

FE is allowed to train as long as its the first wrong.

[Mortiiss]

FE is allowed to train as long as its the first wrong.

Sounds like TMO pulling Sev a few months ago. New puller, right?

[Doors]

I can confirm that sev pull was legitly a mistake. I was in vent when the bard was talking about it.

Thank you known busted MQ user for verifying that for us. We will take your word for it.

[Hasbinbad]

^mad as fuq lol

[Hasbinbad]

Don't forget to bring a towel!
You seem like the kind of frood who really knows where his towel is on this matter.

[AenarieFenninRo]

Don't forget to bring a towel!

Are we talking Towlie here, or Ford Prefect?

Nope. You trained got caught end of story. 2 wrongs don't make a right.

but 3 Lefts do!

[kotton05]

haha touché, totally towlie!!

[raff01]

Wow...Can't wait for Velious to release...NtoV sure is going to be fun with TMO...

[Godefroi]

Aenarie trying hard, just shows how dumb TMO can get.

Provide fraps of them pinging trak over FE, but it's some random dude in sebilis that decided to play with Trak with social aggro from rooms.

:rolleyes:

Go suck a back of dicks Aenarie ;)

[AenarieFenninRo]

Aenarie trying hard, just shows how dumb TMO can get.

Provide fraps of them pinging trak over FE, but it's some random dude in sebilis that decided to play with Trak with social aggro from rooms.

:rolleyes:

Go suck a back of dicks Aenarie ;)

did you assist Trak and find out who it was? No
Could it have been TMO? yes, I have already said that it COULD possibly be
Could it have been FE? yes, I again said it COULD be anyone.
is there proof? no, the video shows Trak agro'ing, thats it... we cant tell who

Which part of that logic did you not understand? I stated facts that are viewable from the video, there is nobody we can see in the video responsible, therefore its personal bias to say that it was TMO, it would also be personal bias for me to claim it was FE. This is why I stated that it is UNKNOWN who caused it.

For you to come and now make a statement that I am "trying hard"... it was the simplest of situations to make statements of fact.... insinuation that it is someone when you have no way to prove it... thats hard ;)

[Alarti0001]

did you assist Trak and find out who it was? No
Could it have been TMO? yes, I have already said that it COULD possibly be
Could it have been FE? yes, I again said it COULD be anyone.
is there proof? no, the video shows Trak agro'ing, thats it... we cant tell who

Which part of that logic did you not understand? I stated facts that are viewable from the video, there is nobody we can see in the video responsible, therefore its personal bias to say that it was TMO, it would also be personal bias for me to claim it was FE. This is why I stated that it is UNKNOWN who caused it.

For you to come and now make a statement that I am "trying hard"... it was the simplest of situations to make statements of fact.... insinuation that it is someone when you have no way to prove it... thats hard ;)

And this is called rational thinking.

[Mortiiss]

did you assist Trak and find out who it was? No
Could it have been TMO? yes, I have already said that it COULD possibly be
Could it have been FE? yes, I again said it COULD be anyone.
is there proof? no, the video shows Trak agro'ing, thats it... we cant tell who

Which part of that logic did you not understand? I stated facts that are viewable from the video, there is nobody we can see in the video responsible, therefore its personal bias to say that it was TMO, it would also be personal bias for me to claim it was FE. This is why I stated that it is UNKNOWN who caused it.

For you to come and now make a statement that I am "trying hard"... it was the simplest of situations to make statements of fact.... insinuation that it is someone when you have no way to prove it... thats hard ;)

And this is called rational thinking.

So the fact that he doesn't move at all until FE logs in doesn't matter at all, thanks for not including that massive stipulation, very rational. Sure, the evidence isn't conclusive, but it doesn't look good at all for TMO. A little too timely it seems, and since this isn't the first time, it looks massive shady. This is why no one likes you, coupled with the fact of how you go about defending it on the forums and want evidence that would take multiple people running multiple fraps videos to 100% prove. Even then, they still might not find the character FDing and standing up over and over.

The timing is what is key in the video - Trak doesn't move until the SECOND FE start logging in. All it takes is one TMO on their setup spot telling the FD guy what to do, which is kinda what it looked like in the video. Can we 100% prove this? No, you're right we can't, but it's kind of obvious to anyone with a shred of intelligence who is watching the video that it's very likely some foul play is involved.

[radditsu]

The point is, WHY

WHY would we aggro trak in the lair when we had a free engage? no reason
WHY would we have anybody that could possibly aggro trak do so at that juncture? no reason
WHY would we do any of this without being 100% ready to attack? no reason

WHY would TMO aggro Trak?
1. To recover corpses
2. Failed to Clear FD aggro from previous engage. Idiot monk trains other guild
3. To Grief a guild who is getting keyed to be their primary antagonist in another zone.
4. To Harass a raid enough to give them a shot to recover and try again.

THE ONLY reason a FE would be in there is to take a shroom/kite juggs out for an engage. The fraps show that FE was not ready to engage the dragon, as most of them have either just camped in/ or at other points in the fraps, camping out to save the raid.

Either way its not sportsmanlike and sad. Should have let us have an engage. At the very least it exposes, yet again, the flippancy and idiocy of your "prove it" attitude. When, sans fraps from a no clipping character, can never conclusively "prove" anything. Especially when you are not allowed to use logic to extrapolate any conclusions from what evidence is provided.

[Mortiiss]

The point is, WHY

WHY would we aggro trak in the lair when we had a free engage? no reason
WHY would we have anybody that could possibly aggro trak do so at that juncture? no reason
WHY would we do any of this without being 100% ready to attack? no reason

WHY would TMO aggro Trak?
1. To recover corpses
2. Failed to Clear FD aggro from previous engage. Idiot monk trains other guild
3. To Grief a guild who is getting keyed to be their primary antagonist in another zone.
4. To Harass a raid enough to give them a shot to recover and try again.

THE ONLY reason a FE would be in there is to take a shroom/kite juggs out for an engage. The fraps show that FE was not ready to engage the dragon, as most of them have either just camped in/ or at other points in the fraps, camping out to save the raid.

Either way its not sportsmanlike and sad. Should have let us have an engage. At the very least it exposes, yet again, the flippancy and idiocy of your "prove it" attitude. When, sans fraps from a no clipping character, can never conclusively "prove" anything. Especially when you are not allowed to use logic to extrapolate any conclusions from what evidence is provided.

Nah bro all that matters is what is 100% shown in video. Trakanon going to aggro ONLY when FE logs in, not once, but TWICE IN A ROW doesn't matter at all apparently.

I think TMO needs to learn what the word rational means. Dunno, maybe it's just me who thinks that.

[Alarti0001]

So the fact that he doesn't move at all until FE logs in doesn't matter at all, thanks for not including that massive stipulation, very rational. Sure, the evidence isn't conclusive, but it doesn't look good at all for TMO. A little too timely it seems, and since this isn't the first time, it looks massive shady. This is why no one likes you, coupled with the fact of how you go about defending it on the forums and want evidence that would take multiple people running multiple fraps videos to 100% prove. Even then, they still might not find the character FDing and standing up over and over.

The timing is what is key in the video - Trak doesn't move until the SECOND FE start logging in. All it takes is one TMO on their setup spot telling the FD guy what to do, which is kinda what it looked like in the video. Can we 100% prove this? No, you're right we can't, but it's kind of obvious to anyone with a shred of intelligence who is watching the video that it's very likely some foul play is involved.

Or some bad play is involved.

You only except your biased judgement.... terrible.

[Mortiiss]

Or some bad play is involved.

You only except your biased judgement.... terrible.

I "except" all variables actually, you don't. Terrible.

[Alarti0001]

The point is, WHY

WHY would we aggro trak in the lair when we had a free engage? no reason
WHY would we have anybody that could possibly aggro trak do so at that juncture? no reason
WHY would we do any of this without being 100% ready to attack? no reason

WHY would TMO aggro Trak?
1. To recover corpses
2. Failed to Clear FD aggro from previous engage. Idiot monk trains other guild
3. To Grief a guild who is getting keyed to be their primary antagonist in another zone.
4. To Harass a raid enough to give them a shot to recover and try again.

THE ONLY reason a FE would be in there is to take a shroom/kite juggs out for an engage. The fraps show that FE was not ready to engage the dragon, as most of them have either just camped in/ or at other points in the fraps, camping out to save the raid.

Either way its not sportsmanlike and sad. Should have let us have an engage. At the very least it exposes, yet again, the flippancy and idiocy of your "prove it" attitude. When, sans fraps from a no clipping character, can never conclusively "prove" anything. Especially when you are not allowed to use logic to extrapolate any conclusions from what evidence is provided.

The answer to all of your first questions is... Because DUMB/BAD

[Mortiiss]

The answer to all of your first questions is... Because DUMB/BAD

Rational.

[Hackscendence]

So the fact that he doesn't move at all until FE logs in doesn't matter at all, thanks for not including that massive stipulation, very rational. Sure, the evidence isn't conclusive, but it doesn't look good at all for TMO. A little too timely it seems, and since this isn't the first time, it looks massive shady. This is why no one likes you, coupled with the fact of how you go about defending it on the forums and want evidence that would take multiple people running multiple fraps videos to 100% prove. Even then, they still might not find the character FDing and standing up over and over.

The timing is what is key in the video - Trak doesn't move until the SECOND FE start logging in. All it takes is one TMO on their setup spot telling the FD guy what to do, which is kinda what it looked like in the video. Can we 100% prove this? No, you're right we can't, but it's kind of obvious to anyone with a shred of intelligence who is watching the video that it's very likely some foul play is involved.

And that's the difference, which hasbinbad originally pointed out, between Logic and Empiricism.

We know that FE had no reason to do this to themselves, and little opportunity to. We know the facts of the encounter (shroom room, etc) and we know that TMO wiped first. We know that TMO had little chance to compete with a full wipe and we know that FE had no reason to rush the encounter with TMO looking at a 15-20 minute recovery.

THIS is called rational thinking.

Yours is an Arguement from Ignorance.
Is that one on the list of fallacies you keep alt-tabbing over to, alarti?

You'd make a great preacher but a real shitty murder investigator.

[Alarti0001]

I "except" all variables actually, you don't. Terrible.

no u

[radditsu]

Alright im going to find a way to strip the sebilis zone file of all assests, making it completely white except for the spawns. I will then key a level 1 halfing rogue, zone him into seb, user a burner IP to load him up with MQ2 and all the warping/no clipping plugins available. I will then set him up in-between where trak shrooms people/and where he spawns.

THEN, OH GOD ONLY THEN, will we have enough evidence of this to satisfy your increasingly expansive proof needs.

But then I would be a dirty MQer.

[Godefroi]

QFT

But TMO will keep spining.

ToV will be funny yeah, but no keys this time ;)

[Godefroi]

QFT

But TMO will keep spining.

ToV will be funny yeah, but no keys this time ;)

[Alarti0001]

And that's the difference, which hasbinbad originally pointed out, between Logic and Empiricism.

We know that FE had no reason to do this to themselves, and little opportunity to. We know the facts of the encounter (shroom room, etc) and we know that TMO wiped first. We know that TMO had little chance to compete with a full wipe and we know that FE had no reason to rush the encounter with TMO looking at a 15-20 minute recovery.

THIS is called rational thinking.

Yours is an Arguement from Ignorance.
Is that one on the list of fallacies you keep alt-tabbing over to, alarti?

You'd make a great preacher but a real shitty murder investigator.

You don't know the facts actually. You assume the facts. That is the issue. Who said Trak was going to Shroom room.... you did. I see no evidence that he did that. he could have gone to the Jugg tunnels, and the second time he definitely ran straight to ledge.

You assume facts based on opinion without evidence. I know opinion based journalism is popular, fun and exciting, but its not proof/evidence/ or proper use of logic.

Thanks for looking up a logical fallacy and incorrectly trying to apply it however, I like when you try!

Here is some proper use. Merrk/Mortiiss entire case is an appeal to probability it is fallacious and illogical.

What I have said from the beginning is there is simply not enough evidence to prove any case here...there are too many possibilities/variables to draw any rational conclusion.

[Drob]

no u

Alarti is having a major relapse in the past few days.

Where is 47shades with the stats? Alarti needs you now more than ever.

[Godefroi]

Gah posting from the TGV, damn double posts!

[radditsu]

The answer to all of your first questions is... Because DUMB/BAD

A) Proven more and more times that FE is neither "BAD" or "Dumb" as of late.
B) Argument of someone who does not have any EVIDENCE to back his words up.


It's ok to lose this one buddy. Doubt you would get banned anyway if it was 100% proven to your satisfaction.

[Alarti0001]

A) Proven more and more times that FE is neither "BAD" or "Dumb" as of late.
B) Argument of someone who does not have any EVIDENCE to back his words up.


It's ok to lose this one buddy. Doubt you would get banned anyway if it was 100% proven to your satisfaction.

I am not making a claim... I am providing possibilities. It is possible FE pulled it and fucked up. This is not an asinine claim as it has happened before and knowing human error will likely happen again.

There is no way for me to lose this one mano, because I am not backing a case, I am pointing out that a truth claim is innacurate due to lack of evidence.

[Godefroi]

We slapped Eccezan off the forum, yet Alarti makes TMO look equally as bad, I wonder why they still let him post lol

[radditsu]

You don't know the facts actually. You assume the facts. That is the issue. Who said Trak was going to Shroom room.... you did. I see no evidence that he did that. he could have gone to the Jugg tunnels, and the second time he definitely ran straight to ledge.



Running in a straight line to the back wall that is in direct trajectory to the shroom room is not evidence? I am sorry we can't see in that great detail through walls..

Allow me to update my picture

http://i.imgur.com/CisMs1Y.jpg

[Alarti0001]

Running in a straight line to the back wall that is in direct trajectory to the shroom room is not evidence? I am sorry we can't see in that great detail through walls..

Allow me to update my picture

http://i.imgur.com/CisMs1Y.jpg

Was it direct though? You can tell me the exact angle he ran through the wall? You can also tell me he wasn't going to a tunnel prior to shroom room? With the way path nodes work you can tell me he wasnt heading to a similar node otw that is also a node otw to shroom room?

No.... you can't

[radditsu]

Was it direct though? You can tell me the exact angle he ran through the wall? You can also tell me he wasn't going to a tunnel prior to shroom room? With the way path nodes work you can tell me he wasnt heading to a similar node otw that is also a node otw to shroom room?

No.... you can't

Nobody can without my magic halfling from the above post! You know just as well as I do mobs Fly over/under the world in direct paths all the time! Sometimes they hit a node and adjust, sometimes not. Its the BIGGEST problem I have seen in any project based on PEQ code. It was also a big issue in "classic eq". Randomly aggroing floors above/below you happened ALL THE TIME. In P99 you largely do not see this issue due to a great deal of work by the devs, but on larger monsters it can be very apparent.

Whats Trak's size rating on P99? PEQ has him listed as a Size 20, and his pathing can be wonky too.

[Alarti0001]

Nobody can without my magic halfling from the above post! You know just as well as I do mobs Fly over/under the world in direct paths all the time! Sometimes they hit a node and adjust, sometimes not. Its the BIGGEST problem I have seen in any project based on PEQ code. It was also a big issue in "classic eq". Randomly aggroing floors above/below you happened ALL THE TIME. In P99 you largely do not see this issue due to a great deal of work by the devs, but on larger monsters it can be very apparent.

Whats Trak's size rating on P99? PEQ has him listed as a Size 20, and his pathing can be wonky too.

Case Closed. The answer is unknowable.

[radditsu]

Case Closed. The answer is unknowable.
A) Unknowable to your unassailable need of "proof"
B) See my map combined with available fraps and the logical reasoning in my "WHY" post to have more than circumstantial evidence of a crime commited. I charge TMO with first degree TRAK RAPE!

I really am seriously thinking about this magic halfling.

Also I want that trakanon size. He seems bigger here. I may load up my groups tonight and just manually check it vs PEQ size. It just sucks dragging toons around Seb.


Sigh i'm getting myself into a mechanics hole. Much like Dean Venture's Floyd hole!

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[maverixdamighty]

A) Unknowable to your unassailable need of "proof"
B) See my map combined with available fraps and the logical reasoning in my "WHY" post to have more than circumstantial evidence of a crime commited. I charge TMO with first degree TRAK RAPE!

I really am seriously thinking about this magic halfling.

Also I want that trakanon size. He seems bigger here. I may load up my groups tonight and just manually check it vs PEQ size. It just sucks dragging toons around Seb.


Sigh i'm getting myself into a mechanics hole. Much like Dean Venture's Floyd hole!

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if alarti is arguing that tmo didn't do it then it is confirmed tmo did it. case closed.

[radditsu]

if alarti is arguing that tmo didn't do it then it is confirmed tmo did it. case closed.

I guess we could go that way.

Alarti just wants an argument, I gave him an argument.

[Alarti0001]

A) Unknowable to your unassailable need of "proof"
B) See my map combined with available fraps and the logical reasoning in my "WHY" post to have more than circumstantial evidence of a crime commited. I charge TMO with first degree TRAK RAPE!

I really am seriously thinking about this magic halfling.

Also I want that trakanon size. He seems bigger here. I may load up my groups tonight and just manually check it vs PEQ size. It just sucks dragging toons around Seb.


Sigh i'm getting myself into a mechanics hole. Much like Dean Venture's Floyd hole!



There is still plenty of room for reasonable doubt. You even said yourself you can't prove your situation with the evidence provided. Without a magic halfing of course. Be reasonable.

[radditsu]

There is still plenty of room for reasonable doubt. You even said yourself you can't prove your situation with the evidence provided. Without a magic halfing of course. Be reasonable.

From the "evidence!" provided, i see a guild logging in after another guild wiped. They should have been given a clear shot(sportsmanship). Unless someone was ordered into the lair to train juggs away, there was zero evidence to support the fact that FE trained themselves. Due to the fact that the guild was just logging in and making groups, they would not have given an order to train juggs.

Clearly they received aggro from some source, at least twice. From non confirmed reports this happened for at least an hour after the video provided. I have stated previously 4 reasons for why another guild would want this to happen. I also doubt the fact that aggro was passed to someone doing King/Shrooms and they were blissfully unaware of what was going on. It is just not a very high percentage of probability based on the fact that the two guilds that farm King the most were farming Trakanon and PVP points at the time, and nobody exp's on shrooms/juggs. That logically leaves two scenarios

1. Intentional Training by a Rival Guild in the area.
2. Non-Intentional Training by a Rival Guild in the area.

Considering the above non confirmed, but certainly undisputed fact that this happened for an extended time frame as noted above. It points to Intentional.

I have used my monkey brain, developed by thousands of years of pattern recognition, hunting, and ability to fill in incomplete data segments to find a resolution to object movement/permanence. These are things my 1 year old son can do, with blocks and toys. You should be able to do this with a video game while you are in your late 60s, George Clooney/Peter Dinklage guy.

On another note:
Do you think If i gave sirken an IP I plan to use, the username/password and the explicit reason why I want to load some MQ2 up he wouldn't ban me for my magical halfling cameraman project? :)

[Alarti0001]

From the "evidence!" provided, i see a guild logging in after another guild wiped. They should have been given a clear shot(sportsmanship). Unless someone was ordered into the lair to train juggs away, there was zero evidence to support the fact that FE trained themselves. Due to the fact that the guild was just logging in and making groups, they would not have given an order to train juggs.

Clearly they received aggro from some source, at least twice. From non confirmed reports this happened for at least an hour after the video provided. I have stated previously 4 reasons for why another guild would want this to happen. I also doubt the fact that aggro was passed to someone doing King/Shrooms and they were blissfully unaware of what was going on. It is just not a very high percentage of probability based on the fact that the two guilds that farm King the most were farming Trakanon and PVP points at the time, and nobody exp's on shrooms/juggs. That logically leaves two scenarios

1. Intentional Training by a Rival Guild in the area.
2. Non-Intentional Training by a Rival Guild in the area.

Considering the above non confirmed, but certainly undisputed fact that this happened for an extended time frame as noted above. It points to Intentional.

I have used my monkey brain, developed by thousands of years of pattern recognition, hunting, and ability to fill in incomplete data segments to find a resolution to object movement/permanence. These are things my 1 year old son can do, with blocks and toys. You should be able to do this with a video game while you are in your late 60s, George Clooney/Peter Dinklage guy.

On another note:
Do you think If i gave sirken an IP I plan to use, the username/password and the explicit reason why I want to load some MQ2 up he wouldn't ban me for my magical halfling cameraman project? :)

Provided with evidence there are additional possibilies to the 2 biased choices you picked.

[Nirgon]

If I was a GM and saw that happen, quite frankly, I would say its not intentionallytraining someone... whoever it was.

Further, whoever did it picked the stupidest time to do it with only 3 people I could see on the ledge.

Sounds like raid zones (or areas) in this case are dangerous (as designed). If another guild wipes to Trak? Lesson learned today (maybe?), get clear of that shit until you're ready to engage.

That's all there is to it.

[getsome]

On another note: Do you think If i gave sirken an IP I plan to use, the username/password and the explicit reason why I want to load some MQ2 up he wouldn't ban me for my magical halfling cameraman project? :)

In 2010 a member of IB was given permission by a GM to run 3rd party programs regarding a similar circumstance.

[radditsu]

In 2010 a member of IB was given permission by a GM to run 3rd party programs regarding a similar circumstance.

I could park it on a PC, load it up streaming for everyone to enjoy !

[kotton05]

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This was 4 hours before the last Trakanon pop and happened up until trak actually popped, sound had to be muted to protect the identity of those harmed in the process. It's all over a prot/tola and the wonderful monks from TMO made it their vendetta to take out all their frustrations on unknowing non FD classes from FE while tracking Trak, you watch, you be the judge, once again sorry for now sound.

now onto the next piece of shocking evidence

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This doesn't catch the original trakanon pop (about a minute is missing) the kite lasted for about 2.5 mins. Wonder if thats how long it takes to position? a dragon and wait for multiple shrooms/aoes to go off... you watch, you be the judge, kept this one raw so you can truely get a grip on the exact scenario.

TMO went on to wipe to trak, then relentlessly tried to CR (multiple mishaps of trak being trained on FE raid from people CR'ing breaking line of sight and a certain somebody who got shroomed flopping with intentions of griefing FE).

I post this for the forum warriors across norrath. VP leaking into seb.

[kotton05]

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[Funkutron5000]

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I do still love Visc spamming "LOG IN" in guild chat. Hah!

[maverixdamighty]

merkk grass is always green it's a fact. please stop with these non facts.

[Ele]

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3:45 Lol @ Visercal shouting in guild chat for people to log in.

3:47 Gnomercy is requested to DMF

3:52 "can't"

4:00 "oh have aggro?"

4:56 Gnomercy fails FD -> Trak pays a visit to poop mountain

[maverixdamighty]

3:45 Lol @ Visercal shouting in guild chat for people to log in.

3:47 Gnomercy is requested to DMF

3:52 "can't"

4:00 "oh have aggro?"

4:56 Gnomercy fails FD -> Trak pays a visit to poop mountain

he was already fd when trak got agro clearly as he clicks on fd and it still says he can't cast a spell because he's not standing...nice try though.

[kotton05]

he was already fd when trak got agro clearly as he clicks on fd and it still says he can't cast a spell because he's not standing...nice try though.

[Ele]

he was already fd when trak got agro clearly as he clicks on fd and it still says he can't cast a spell because he's not standing...nice try though.

so you guys trained yourselves, nice.

[kotton05]

how would we have agro if we never engaged after you wiped=-(

[Ele]

how would we have agro if we never engaged after you wiped=-(

Running into Trakanon lair and training juggs on yourself doesn't help. :( That all happens after Gnomercy died.

[kotton05]

? talking about erevan?

[maverixdamighty]

so you guys trained yourselves, nice.

alarti logged on your account? derping it up.

[Enygma]

Alarti just give it a rest bro that last Trak you fucked up.

Fact: you made the call to engage.

Fact: it was 2 early.

Fact: you are a poor raid leader even poorer RnF spokesman.

Fact: your 20 monks kept Trak "busy" while you tried to rez to get another attempt.

Fact: FE owned you.

Fact: Rellapsee is lovin FE balls in hopes that atleast maybe they can tolerate him in Velious since, P99, Red99 and EQmac have already voted him off every island once.

[Mortiiss]

Fact: Rellapsee is lovin FE balls in hopes that atleast maybe they can tolerate him in Velious since, P99, Red99 and EQmac have already voted him off every island once.

No he just dislikes some of TMO's members. You're probably one of them so you feel butt hurt.

What kinda donuts did you get today?

[maverixdamighty]

Fact: Rellapsee is lovin FE balls in hopes that atleast maybe they can tolerate him in Velious since, P99, Red99 and EQmac have already voted him off every island once.

that's an opinion. Grass is green is a fact (well at least alarti tried to say something factual)...even when he tries he fails though :(