Senate fails the country again.

[Kagatob]

What else is new?
CNN link (http://www.cnn.com/2013/04/17/politics/senate-guns-vote/index.html?hpt=hp_c2)

[bubur]

thank god they have not been swayed by the sudden and vicious attack on your liberties

[Harrison Remembers]

http://img.pandawhale.com/36243-slow-clap-citizen-kane-orson-w-jpBA.gif

[Harrison Remembers]

P.S. Fuck the government trying to sneakily find a way to get a gun registration going, all while saying, "Nah, that's totally not what we're doing bro. Think of the children!"

[quido]

Look what happens when Harrison hears that some TMO members gonna be at the Boston Marathon... we should start registering known psychopaths before guns imo.

[Doors]

Love it when politicians use the death of innocent little kids to push their agendas and take away the rights of U.S. citizens.

I heard next week congress is pushing legislation to ban pressure cookers.

[Kraftwerk]

This is good news, did you mistype the thread title?

[Kagatob]

Love it when politicians use the death of innocent little kids to push their agendas and take away the rights of U.S. citizens.

I heard next week congress is pushing legislation to ban pressure cookers.

Care to explain how the background checks take away your rights?

[Doors]

Care to explain how the background checks take away your rights?

In a major defeat for supporters of tougher gun laws, the U.S. Senate on Wednesday defeated a compromise plan to expand background checks on firearms sales as well as a proposal to ban some semi-automatic weapons modeled after military assault weapons.

First paragraph of the article. Also the last time I checked, criminals weren't trying to obtain firearms in a legal manner and most mentally disturbed individuals (Lanza) don't have criminal backgrounds that prevent them from purchasing firearms.

The only people these laws would have even affected would be law abiding citizens. Obama should pull his head out of his ass and stop cutting funding to groups like NAMI (http://www.nami.org/) instead of trying to disarm the country to push his socialist agenda.

[Kagatob]

If you believe you should have military style assault weapons designed to kill armored soldiers then where's my fucking loaded flak truck or M1A1 tank?

[Millburn]

Am I the only one who knows some god damn statistics around here? Rifles account for like 4% for all armed homicides, that's not even ASSAULT rifles. Any policy or posturing centered around regulating these things is just an appeasement, a misdirection, or a gross negligence of fact. If any of these people actually cared about resolving anything it would be directed towards handguns.

[Ephirith]

b-b-but muh gunz

n

liburties

[Heebee]

lolmerica

[Black Jesus]

Thread title should be TODAY IS A GLORIOUS DAY FOR FREEDOM! because they've already dismantled half the Bill of Rights.

thank god they have not been swayed by the sudden and vicious attack on your liberties

[Droxx]

guns blew up boston. take them away.

[Kagatob]

guns blew up boston. take them away.

Boston didn't blow up, it's still there. Nice try though.

[citizen1080]

Am I the only one who knows some god damn statistics around here? Rifles account for like 4% for all armed homicides, that's not even ASSAULT rifles. Any policy or posturing centered around regulating these things is just an appeasement, a misdirection, or a gross negligence of fact. If any of these people actually cared about resolving anything it would be directed towards handguns.

This

More people die to hammers than guns. Seriously..look it up

BAN HAMMERS!

[Doors]

Thread title should be TODAY IS A GLORIOUS DAY FOR FREEDOM! because they've already dismantled half the Bill of Rights.

PATRIOT WRU

[Kagatob]

Am I the only one who knows some god damn statistics around here? Rifles account for like 4% for all armed homicides, that's not even ASSAULT rifles. Any policy or posturing centered around regulating these things is just an appeasement, a misdirection, or a gross negligence of fact. If any of these people actually cared about resolving anything it would be directed towards handguns.

This

More people die to hammers than guns. Seriously..look it up

BAN HAMMERS!

Yes, rather take no action and solve none of the problem than solve a part of it, regardless of how small. How american of you.

If you have a better idea, write to your senator so they can propose something instead of just blocking any attempt to change anything. But you don't, you're just here to shout "that won't work" and do nothing. Maintain the status quo. Good job. /salute.

[Millburn]

This

More people die to hammers than guns. Seriously..look it up

BAN HAMMERS!

I know you're trolling but there's actually a lot of people who think that and honestly it's retarded, people should feel bad for believing a ridiculous claim

http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2011/crime-in-the-u.s.-2011/tables/expanded-homicide-data-table-8

Even if it were true hammers have a wide range of purposes that they're used for... guns do not.

[Millburn]

If you have a better idea, write to your senator so they can propose something instead of just blocking any attempt to change anything. But you don't, you're just here to shout "that won't work" and do nothing. Maintain the status quo. Good job. /salute.

Man I teach sociology and work part time in my local government. I probably do more than anybody else in this silly thread.

[bubur]

Yes, rather take no action and solve none of the problem than solve a part of it, regardless of how small. How american of you.

If you have a better idea, write to your senator so they can propose something instead of just blocking any attempt to change anything. But you don't, you're just here to shout "that won't work" and do nothing. Maintain the status quo. Good job. /salute.

doing something hastily, regardless of how small, without understanding the repercussions is a lot worse than doing nothing

am i implying you dont understand gun violence? not really. i am implying you probably didnt read said defeated gun registration bill, and might have missed some of the fine print

sometimes problems solve themselves and sometimes they arent even real problems. i cant think of anything more american than spending, shooting, bombing and cutting to solve problems that arent real

but what do i know? your president left my country and went to govern yours.

[Kagatob]

sometimes problems solve themselves and sometimes they arent even real problems. i cant think of anything more american than spending, shooting, bombing and cutting to solve problems that arent real.

Neville Chamberlain speaks!

[Black Jesus]

When a crackhead and his buddies break into your house fiending for dope and try to tie your kids up for ransom and rape your wife, would you rather sit in the corner crying/shitting on yourself or shoot them in the fucking face and paint new colors on your drywall?

I'll tell you if you don't have a gun, the people who do keep you safe. Because criminals don't know which house has a gun behind the door. If we didn't need guns, we wouldn't need locks. The door is locked for your protection, not mine.

[Kagatob]

When a crackhead and his buddies break into your house fiending for dope and try to tie your kids up for ransom and rape your wife, would you rather sit in the corner crying/shitting on yourself or shoot them in the fucking face and paint new colors on your drywall?

I'll tell you if you don't have a gun, the people who do keep you safe. Because criminals don't know which house has a gun behind the door. If we didn't need guns, we wouldn't need locks. The door is locked for your protection, not mine.

Fail logic is fail.

A lock will not prevent someone from breaking into your house, if they want to get in they will get in.

A gun's existance will not prevent anyone from breaking into your house for fear that you may have a gun, it will cause them to kill you rather than hold you hostage because you are not simply their victem, you are a potential threat.

[Black Jesus]

Okay, new scenario.

Do you go to the mall in paranoid commie pussy fashion that a crazed gunman will shoot you? If so, why would you make it harder and add more hoops and hassle for people like yourself to own firearms (and even more impossible to conceal carry), when instead of shitting yourself in the corner waiting in line for your turn to die you can pop a slug right back into his fucking cranium and watch the jello that was his brain turn to mist?

[Kagatob]

Repost that in English please. I don't speak wigger. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6loG-Fn2S8Q)

[Black Jesus]

I see you have conceded, albeit not in the most classiest way.

[Kagatob]

No, I honestly have no idea what the hell you're trying to convey with your (and I'm stretching the word here) statement.

[Doors]

A lock will not prevent someone from breaking into your house, if they want to get in they will get in.


Similar to how gun laws won't prevent criminals or individuals who want to harm other people from possessing guns. Imagine that.

http://stream1.gifsoup.com/view/204031/the-more-you-know-o.gif

[Black Jesus]

while we're on the topic, the AR-15 is probably one of the best home-defense weapons on the market. Great stopping power, hollow points won't penetrate the walls, very accurate, easier to handle than a pistol, lower recoil than a shotgun. AK is same thing but with a bigger exit wound. win win all around

The only thing that makes them suck is when liberal pussies make laws that they have to be certain lengths, have bullet buttons, 10 round magazines, and can't have any useful stuff on them. If someone breaks in my house I want to bayonet the fucker.

[Millburn]

Similar to how gun laws won't prevent criminals or individuals who want to harm other people from possessing guns. Imagine that.

Most homicides are committed impulsively and are crimes of passion. Gun regulation abates this by taking away the tool upon impulse, lessening the chance the crime happens because it requires time and investment.

Does gun related crime happen in a pre-meditated fashion? You're damn right it does but it's very small by comparison

[Black Jesus]

if dudes gonna enrage and kill his wife cuz he catches her sleeping around the town he's going to bite her fucking neck, rip her throat out, and strangle her with her own esophagus; or take a claw hammer to her face until he splits her fucking dome; or any of a million ways I can imagine. he doesn't need a gun, if anything just makes the murder less gruesome

[Millburn]

What's your point?

[Black Jesus]

my point is what's yours?

[Doors]

I can confirm PATRIOTs statements about the ar-15 being a fantastic home defense tool.

[Millburn]

my point is what's yours?

...

[Kagatob]

I really don't understand 66.6~ % of what this guy is posting.

[Doors]

What he's trying to say is that gun laws and restrictions are pointless, because people that commit crimes do not follow the law in the first place. It's not hard to understand. The political agenda machine is playing off innocents deaths to push their bullshit. The majority of murders are not committed by assault rifles and semi automatic sub machine guns in the first place.

I'm fine with background checks because I have nothing to hide, but I'm not fine with the government slowly and methodically taking away my right to own firearms. The problem in this country, especially with school shootings, is not firearms but the the people using them.

[Doors]

Have no idea what you are ranting about but I would love to hear you name a country that doesn't have a long history of bloodshed.

[Kagatob]

Have no idea what you are ranting about but I would love to hear you name a country that doesn't have a long history of bloodshed.

Canada.

[Millburn]

Legit question here, does Iceland count? I hear they just got voted in as the friendliest country on the planet. Awww yeah.

[citizen1080]

Canada.

Canada is not a country, it is a hat

[Kagatob]

Canada is an amazing quazi-socialist demi-utopia

:)

[citizen1080]

Don't get me wrong...i have Canadian friends...as I live an hour from the border. And I snowboard up there as often as I can. BC is great...the rest of it....meh

[Doors]

Canada.

How did I know you would blurt out the most common answer to this question.

There were four French and Indian Wars and two additional wars in Acadia and Nova Scotia (see Father Rale's War and Father Le Loutre's War) between the Thirteen American Colonies and New France from 1689 to 1763.

And that's just one example. Do some research on the genocide and forced educational "schools" Canada had running into the late 1970's to "modernize" their native american populations children.

[citizen1080]

Do some research on the genocide and forced educational "schools" Canada had running into the late 1970's to "modernize" their native american populations children.

I am with you on this doors...but america had those as well. As did the british and pretty much every single empire nation.

Doesnt change the fact that canada has blood on their hands just like everyone else.

No where near what America does. But still not clean

[Kagatob]

French Canadia is not Canada. Neither is the land Canada happened to be on when it was under French rule which lasted... :eek: until 1763 :eek: .
But then again you probably blame the United States for England's involvement in that war as well...

Can I borrow your tinfoil hat? I want to bake a potato.

[Doors]

name a country that doesn't have a long history of bloodshed.

history of bloodshed.

history

Saying the French and Indian wars is irrelevant to the history of the formation of Canada is kind of dumb. Either way we're completely off topic.

[Kagatob]

You said name a country that doesn't have a long history of bloodshed. You named a war caused by France that happened to be in Canada that ended after 9 years 250 years ago. Congrats on stretching long?

Where the fuck do you draw the line dude? Next you'll be blaming China for Pearl Harbor because the Japanese originally migrated from there. :rolleyes:

[MrSparkle001]

Gun control is a lie. It's just feel good legislation.

And people are stupid:

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Southern California is stupid as fuck. Oh and before anyone says, he said this was in the span of about 15 minutes so there was no cherry-picking of morons.

http://img13.imageshack.us/img13/7033/24310659.jpg

[Raavak]

Did you see Obama's speech afterwards chewing out the GOP and "special interests"? He said how sad it was this bill failed, and brought up how this bill would help and stated several uncontroversial parts of it. He conveniently left out the controversial parts of the bill that even the Democrats hated.

[Kagatob]

^ scripted.

Also repealing the 2nd amendment will never happen and the bill that they are trying to pass doesn't even come close to beginning to chip away at it.

They give you freedom to have your tinfoil hattery, I just wish they also gave the rest of us freedom from this kind of tinfoil hattery as well.

[Raavak]

After the Boston bombings we need to concentrate more on background checks and a national registry for pressure cookers. All these backroom private pressure cooker sales mean that criminals are getting them.

We also need a size limit. 6 quart pressure cookers? No one needs that much. 3 quarts will do the job. 6 is outrageous and should be outlawed.

Also black pressure cookers need to go. Or ones with finger grip handles. For no particular reason except they look evil.

[Kagatob]

After the Boston bombings we need to concentrate more on background checks and a national registry for pressure cookers. All these backroom private pressure cooker sales mean that criminals are getting them.

We also need a size limit. 6 quart pressure cookers? No one needs that much. 3 quarts will do the job. 6 is outrageous and should be outlawed.

Also black pressure cookers need to go. Or ones with finger grip handles. For no particular reason except they look evil.

I know you think that you sound clever and somewhat edgy for saying such a thing like this but you don't and you aren't. I need not explain why, and if you think I do just realize that while you may "think" you are accomplishing something here, you and those like you simply are part of the problem.

[Doors]

Gun legislation is bullshit dude face it. Lanza and for that matter every other school shooter had severe mental problems. Obama has been slashing federal aid to mental health organizations, programs, and studies left and right for his budget cuts. He's not stupid.

Supportive housing in the city I live in is being shut down due to lack of funding.
the NAMI branch in my city is being shut down due to lack of funding (http://tribune-democrat.com/local/x2056598010/NAMI-office-closing).
Nevada is busing it's mentally ill citizens out of the state for treatment because of budget cuts (http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/04/17/nevada-buses-mentally-ill/2091727/).

If Obama actually gave a shit about making an impact on the problem he would go for the root of it. He just has an agenda to push, nothing more.

[Harrison Remembers]

https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/17324_552665124756002_385013817_n.jpg

I'm having difficulty imagining the level of stupidity necessary to believe that passing more inane laws will stop criminals, those already not following laws, from possessing weapons of any sort.

[Kagatob]

Gun legislation is bullshit dude face it. Lanza and for that matter every other school shooter had severe mental problems. Obama has been slashing federal aid to mental health organizations, programs, and studies left and right for his budget cuts. He's not stupid.

Supportive housing in the city I live in is being shut down due to lack of funding.
the NAMI branch in my city is being shut down due to lack of funding (http://tribune-democrat.com/local/x2056598010/NAMI-office-closing).
Nevada is busing it's mentally ill citizens out of the state for treatment because of budget cuts (http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/04/17/nevada-buses-mentally-ill/2091727/).

If Obama actually gave a shit about making an impact on the problem he would go for the root of it. He just has an agenda to push, nothing more.

Ok you think you're some kind of expert, that you're smart and realistic for the stance that you have. Let me put it this way. Let's assume you are correct (you aren't) about this supposed 'agenda'. Now tell me what he would have to gain from such an agenda. Or are you blind to the fact that there's millions upon millions to be made as a politician sucking the NRA's teat like the GOP has been for the past couple of decades?

[Raavak]

I know you think that you sound clever and somewhat edgy for saying such a thing like this but you don't and you aren't. I need not explain why, and if you think I do just realize that while you may "think" you are accomplishing something here, you and those like you simply are part of the problem.You can complain about it but can't defend it? Blah blah blah. Listen to me rant about you not deserving the right to defend yourself because me and my neo-lib friends are better and smarter than you.

[Alendria]

This is why I believe amendments to bills in Congress should not be allowed. I would personally be ok with better background checks and closing gunshow loopholes, but I'm not ok with restricting magazine capacities. Same deal with the 'protect Monsato' amendment to the sequestor bill--it would never have passed on its own (hopefully) so they tack it on to sequestration which omgomg has to pass. Lots of other government pork would be eliminated by this as well.

The biggest problem imo with gun legislation is you have a bunch of legislators who have no idea what they're talking about pandering to their constituents who have no idea what the crap they're talking about, such as this example (http://coloradopeakpolitics.com/2013/04/03/you-cant-fix-stupid-congresswoman-diana-degette-becomes-the-latest-colorado-democrat-embarrassed-nationally-by-her-own-words/). Therefore, nothing meaningful gets done.

[MrSparkle001]

^ scripted.

Also repealing the 2nd amendment will never happen and the bill that they are trying to pass doesn't even come close to beginning to chip away at it.

They give you freedom to have your tinfoil hattery, I just wish they also gave the rest of us freedom from this kind of tinfoil hattery as well.

Restricting peoples' rights to own firearms is chipping away at it, and it's exactly why this wasn't passed. Background checks while nice would solve nothing, and making certain firearms illegal chips away at the 2nd amendment.

Watch the video of that guy's fake petition and see how dumb people are. Granted it's southern California but the level of stupid is still higher than expected.

This is why I believe amendments to bills in Congress should not be allowed.

Sometimes amendments to bills are done on purpose anticipating the bills will fail. It gives one party ammunition against the other. This bill for instance lets the democrats argue that the GOP is against even such sensible legislation as expanded background checks. Makes them look good and the GOP look bad; and the American people are dumb and naive enough to fall for it because they won't pay attention to the whole bill and what caused it to fail in the first place. They'll just see "omg no expanded background checks, GOP is teh evil."

[Alendria]

Sometimes amendments to bills are done on purpose anticipating the bills will fail. It gives one party ammunition against the other. This bill for instance lets the democrats argue that the GOP is against even such sensible legislation as expanded background checks. Makes them look good and the GOP look bad; and the American people are dumb and naive enough to fall for it because they won't pay attention to the whole bill and what caused it to fail in the first place. They'll just see "omg no expanded background checks, GOP is teh evil."

Yes, sadly amendments are used to manipulate public opinion like this as well, just another reason that they need to be abolished.

I do concede that background checks probably do need to be expanded somewhat, but I'm not delusional into thinking it would've helped all those kids. I've filled out the form so many times that I practically have it memorized and can fill it out with my eyes closed. 90 second phone call later or about 10 clicks of a mouse depending on the dealer, swap some cash, and I'm out the door with a new shiny.

[Black Jesus]

there is no gun show loophole, FFL dealers still have to perform background checks at a show you're talking like .0001% of private transfers which can happen anywhere not just at gun shows its shit like when dad gives his gun to his son god yall are dum and brainwashed by the liberal media

[Millburn]

Restricting peoples' rights to own firearms is chipping away at it, and it's exactly why this wasn't passed."

I love how people think the 2nd amendment was made for personal firearm use. It was established to protect the states right to form and maintain their own militia.

[Swish]

There's a great vice documentary on a well known American militia that moved to Alaska, some smart guys in there. If shit ever hits the fan, they'll be ready...til then, people just think they're nutjobs with guns.

[Hasbinbad]

lol guns are so primitive.

They've shifted the frame to keep you morans stuck there.

If you're absolutely stuck on the idea of putting a hole in someone, you can make better/faster/quieter projectile weapons at home with a minimum of tools, youtube, and a nearby hardware store. Not to mention 3d printers & the darknet.

putting a hole in someone tho .. not the best way to ensure their condition change.

[Millburn]

If they're moving their whole families and livelihoods for the sake of being ready for government oppression then yeah...they are nutjobs with guns.

[Stinkum]

There's a great vice documentary on a well known American militia that moved to Alaska, some smart guys in there. If shit ever hits the fan, they'll be ready...til then, people just think they're nutjobs with guns.

Lol, yes we should be oh so thankful for some random doomsday prepper whackos in Alaska who will surely save us all in the future.

Swish, I sometimes wonder if you're retarded.

[Kagatob]

If they're moving their whole families and livelihoods for the sake of being ready for government oppression then yeah...they are nutjobs with guns.

Lol, yes we should be oh so thankful for some random doomsday prepper whackos in Alaska who will surely save us all in the future.

Swish, I sometimes wonder if you're retarded.

But we need them, in Alaska, with their AR15's protecting us, down here from drone strikes. It's the perfect plan!

[Swish]

You know what? I really can't gauge the American psyche and never have been able to :(

Tons of you are religious and give millions to the church every year, tons of you are gun owners who want to keep hold of the guns you own...

...but those guys up in Alaska, they're whackos, they're idiots. They're staying off the grid. Terrible idea, obviously paedophiles, devil worshippers and Taliban sympathizers.

I keep an open mind, if that makes me retarded then cool - I'm dribbling and screaming while I'm doing my colouring in books :p

[Kagatob]

You know what? I really can't gauge the American psyche and never have been able to :(

Tons of you are religious and give millions to the church every year, tons of you are gun owners who want to keep hold of the guns you own...

...but those guys up in Alaska, they're whackos, they're idiots. They're staying off the grid. Terrible idea, obviously paedophiles, devil worshippers and Taliban sympathizers.

I keep an open mind, if that makes me retarded then cool - I'm dribbling and screaming while I'm doing my colouring in books :p

How about I'm none of those retarded things...

[Stinkum]

...but those guys up in Alaska, they're whackos, they're idiots. They're staying off the grid. Terrible idea, obviously paedophiles, devil worshippers and Taliban sympathizers.

I keep an open mind, if that makes me retarded then cool - I'm dribbling and screaming while I'm doing my colouring in books :p

Lol dude, I don't have to justify my ridiculing of a group of crazy people who think the black helicopter government apocalypse is coming.

It stands on it's own to any person with a room temperature IQ or above.

If you, in any remote way, think that doomsday preppers are "admirable" and that anyone should "keep an open mind" about them.. then you are either #1) medically retarded or #2) have just trolled the shit out of me and I tip my hat to you.

[Harrison Remembers]

Bigot confirmed.

[Swish]

Well I don't want to get personal, I'm just saying that there's some crazy shit in America... but among it all I don't put militias down as being a terrible thing.

Not trolling/not retarded...and there's a difference between militias and people who spend $50,000+ on an underground nuclear shelter for their family.

[Kagatob]

Lol dude, I don't have to justify my ridiculing of a group of crazy people who think the black helicopter government apocalypse is coming.

It stands on it's own to any person with a room temperature IQ or above.

If you, in any remote way, think that doomsday preppers are "admirable" and that anyone should "keep an open mind" about them.. then you are either #1) medically retarded or #2) have just trolled the shit out of me and I tip my hat to you.

Bigot confirmed.

I lol'd.

[Black Jesus]

I love how people think the 2nd amendment was made for personal firearm use. It was established to protect the states right to form and maintain their own militia.

Wrong, common argument from revisionist liberal history. Jefferson specifically removed extra commas (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution #Text) from the 2nd amendment when it was ratified to avoid this confusion about the militia, and any writings of the founders will confirm that the people, not the state, are the militia. In fact, a good faction of the founders were against standing armies at all.

http://constitution.org/mil/cs_milit.htm

Liberals also like to falsely claim the National Guard is the militia. Yes, the 2nd amendment ratified in 1791 was totally referring to an organization formed in 1903.

Furthermore, the supreme court has ruled since the Bill of Rights' inception that the 2nd amendment gives you the personal right to own a firearm, so there is both historical and legal precedence.

Liberalism = mental disorder

[SamwiseRed]

liberalism = mental disorder?

last time i checked liberalism was for equality and liberty, kinda what america is all about. someone been watching too much fox news.

im pro 2nd amendment btw, not because the liberal media told me to be, but because i think its a right. i do however think there are some flaws in the current system of obtaining a weapon. mostly because people are retarded and dont give a fuck about who they sell too as long as they make dat dollar.

btw if liberals are mental, what in gods name are conservatives lol

[Swish]

people are retarded

A lot of things are justified because of this. They're still trying to bring in ID cards in the UK but people don't want it...if you need my ID you can look at my driver's license.

Matter of time before some "illegal immigrant" blows up a train/bus/building here and there will be fresh calls for ID cards, and again a portion of people will go along with it because they read a shocking story in the Daily Mail about how such a terrible event was allowed to happen.

[EchoedTruth]

thank god they have not been swayed by the sudden and vicious attack on your liberties

I'm waiting for someone to explain how requiring people to have a background check before owning a gun = attack on civil liberties. Seems like sanity to me.

[Lojik]

You know what? I really can't gauge the American psyche and never have been able to :(

Tons of you are religious and give millions to the church every year, tons of you are gun owners who want to keep hold of the guns you own...

...but those guys up in Alaska, they're whackos, they're idiots. They're staying off the grid. Terrible idea, obviously paedophiles, devil worshippers and Taliban sympathizers.

I keep an open mind, if that makes me retarded then cool - I'm dribbling and screaming while I'm doing my colouring in books :p

I don't think anyone can gauge the American psyche. Interesting though to examine what ideas we think are normal and what are whacko, and what ideas will be abandoned in twenty years.

Good that you got an open mind, in my opinion at least.

[Humerox]

Nobody has brought up the fact that the bill wasn't "defeated" at all.

The vote on a bipartisan bill backed by the majority of Americans was blocked by a special-interest minority.

Revel in the fact that Fascism has trumped Freedom.

[Gadwen]

Fail logic is fail.

A lock will not prevent someone from breaking into your house, if they want to get in they will get in.

A gun's existance will not prevent anyone from breaking into your house for fear that you may have a gun, it will cause them to kill you rather than hold you hostage because you are not simply their victem, you are a potential threat.

I wonder if we can apply this logic to criminals getting guns? Hmmmmmmmmm?

And I can assure you, I am a hell of a lot more than a "potential threat" to anyone breaking into my house.

[Gadwen]

The vote on a bipartisan bill backed by the majority of Americans was blocked by a special-interest minority.

Please cite sources that prove that the majority of Americans supported the bill.

[Samoht]

I love how people think the 2nd amendment was made for personal firearm use. It was established to protect the states right to form and maintain their own militia.

right on the first account, since the first amendment wasn't made for personal firearm use

100% incorrect on the second. it was made for the people to defend themselves from tyrannical government.

also, background checks will do nothing to keep guns out of the hands of criminals. the background checks will only help to create a government sponsored database of gun-owners for future disarmament.

and that's what makes it unconstitutional.

[Millburn]

You guys are still on this kick that most armed homicides are done by career criminals and shit. Gun regulation is effective by taking out the tool upon impulse, which is what most crimes are committed on. There's a reason why pre-meditated murder holds a steeper penatly.

You're right that if someone wants to get their hands on a gun than they most likely will if they put in enough effort to get one. The people who go through that effort is a super small percentage of the crimes committed though and is not the target of gun regulation.

Honestly though... gun regulation is like icing on a cake the real body of the issue lays in the socio-economic field. Poverty and lack of social mobility are some of the biggest factors that contribute to gun violence or violence in general. It just so happens we have the 2nd lowest rate of social mobility in all the OECD countries. Perhaps fixing things like minimum wage, health care, and other factors might be a better fix in the end. That's a dream though, because we'll still have idiots like Rush Limbaugh and the people who listen to him following suit to scream bloody murder and justify the legislation special interests push through our politicians.

[Samoht]

You guys are still on this kick that most armed homicides are done by career criminals and shit.

Please quote your source that has any influence to the contrary.

Gun regulation is effective by taking out the tool upon impulse, which is what most crimes are committed on.

Pipe dream.

[Millburn]

Please quote your source.

I've got 8 years of education and a masters in sociology to back up what I say. I'm not going to sort through FBI documentation to find you sources. Go look them up yourself and take the initiative to challenge your own assumption.

[Samoht]

sociology != criminology

amirite?

i'm guessing you're not going to oblige because the statistics will not back your position.

now lets get into the actual meaning behind the gun change laws. in the recent events of sandy hook and aurora, a couple of outliers committed crimes against civilians. they are outliers in two ways: a large majority of people will never commit these kinds of crimes, and the weapons they used are not the weapons normally used in these kinds of crimes.

the reality is that these people needed help, and our health care system failed them.

gun control isn't going to stop the next sandy hook or aurora. if you look at the UK as an example, they had a rise in crime for a few years before any positive change after they had complete civilian disarmament, but the UK is different from the US because it has virtually always been illegal for civilians to own weapons dating back to the 1100's.

the UK just wasn't as saturated as the US is with guns, so initiating gun control in the US will A) increase crime and B) maintain a high level of crime for a much longer period of time than the UK did.

these background checks are just for a database for the national government to monitor gun owners.

and that's not very free.

[Swish]

these background checks are just for a database for the national government to monitor gun owners.

[Kagatob]

these background checks are just for a database for the national government to monitor gun owners.


Yep, fox news addicts. Here's the proof. Enjoy your tinfoil hat.

[Black Jesus]

You saying they don't store that information?

[Stinkum]

It's destroyed within 24 hours by law.

Que kooky Alex Jones rant about how they secretly keep track of it in 3... 2... 1...

[Black Jesus]

Yall are dum gun deaths per year is like what 10k? Out of 300 million people?

Thats a 0.00003% chance of gun violence happening to you. And if it should happen to you, wouldn't you rather shoot back at the magget or shit your pants like a little bitch?

I should also mention guns are used lawfully more times than unlawfully. They save (innocent) people's lives everyday.

Ban cars you liberal nanny state communist PUSSIES

It's destroyed within 24 hours by law.

Que kooky Alex Jones rant about how they secretly keep track of it in 3... 2... 1...

oh man you're totally fucking right I forgot we live in an era of open transparancy with honest government that has never been in any scandals or lied about ANYTHING and where everything we do isn't fucking tracked

[Kagatob]

^
Speak english you wigga. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dmuIY4IZaNE)

[OforOppression]

it's sad when i agree with naez

[SamwiseRed]

that tupac quote uses a double negative. so he did commit crimes that werent honorable, that piece of shit.

[Kagatob]

that tupac quote uses a double negative. so he did commit crimes that werent honorable, that piece of shit.

[MrSparkle001]

Perhaps fixing things like minimum wage, health care, and other factors might be a better fix in the end.

None of that will do jack squat. Live in Camden NJ for a while then tell me what the problem is. Minimum wage and health care mean dick to people who just want to live a drug dealing, murdering thug life. That's the cause of most gun violence. It is not lawful citizens, but thugs killing each other in the streets, all the time. Gun violence is a daily occurrence in our cities and it has nothing to do with the legality of the guns. Background checks will do NOTHING WHATSOEVER to curb the violence, and neither will increased minimum wage or health care for them paid by the rest of us. The police can't even stop them, you think gun control will?

[Millburn]

So you're telling me that poverty is the issue but fixing poverty won't help? You're a confusing individual.

[Lojik]

Perhaps fixing things like minimum wage, health care, and other factors might be a better fix in the end.

When you say "fixing" minimum wage, does that imply raising it? If that's the case, I would think this would be more detrimental, as wages are generally determined by marginal product of labor, and all minimum wage laws do is eliminate job opportunities for low skilled workers. It's also quite possible that it's most detrimental to poorer demographics.

[SamwiseRed]

people make more leeching off the govt than they do working a full time job making minimum wage. i think there is a problem.

[Nihilist_santa]

So you're telling me that poverty is the issue but fixing poverty won't help? You're a confusing individual.

I understand you studied sociology but did you happen to take an economics class? You do know what inflation is correct? Raising minimum wage is a poverty pimps solution. If you want to end social inequality through raising the standard of living then bring back jobs, create real currency not debt based ponzi schemes and get out of all of the international trade agreements that are strangling the country like NAFTA,GATT, etc , promote real education, de-privatize the prison system and create a reform system and repudiate the debt that has been incurred through currency manipulations. End lobbying, set term limits, create more representatives and end the consolidation of power. TIDY UP THE 14TH AMENDMENT AND END CORPORATE PERSON HOOD

Raising minimum wage :rolleyes: - as if people should be forced in to minimum wage jobs to earn a living.

[Millburn]

Could you explain to me how raising minimum wage eliminates low skill labor opportunities? I'm not an economist and don't understand how those correlate. What I do know is that with the affordable health care act, all part time workers in low skill jobs will not be getting more than 25 hours a week. There needs to be some change in wages or this will be another nail in the coffin of our work force.

[SamwiseRed]

private E-1s in the military make more money than minimum wage

[Millburn]

I understand you studied sociology but did you happen to take an economics class? You do know what inflation is correct? Raising minimum wage is a poverty pimps solution. If you want to end social inequality through raising the standard of living then bring back jobs, create real currency not debt based ponzi schemes and get out of all of the international trade agreements that are strangling the country like NAFTA,GATT, etc , promote real education, de-privatize the prison system and create a reform system and repudiate the debt that has been incurred through currency manipulations. End lobbying, set term limits, create more representatives and end the consolidation of power.

Raising minimum wage :rolleyes: - as if people should be forced in to minimum wage jobs to earn a living.

Hey man I agree with pretty much everything you just said, thank you for posting this.

[Nihilist_santa]

If you increase the minimum wage then you increase the bottom line which affects price. What happens then is your prices go up. Your solution just causes you to keep raising minimum wage and producers to keep raising prices. The reason people will be dropped to 25 hours is because the "affordable" healthcare act is affecting the bottom line.

**sorry if this came across as snide or condescending not meant to be that way.

[Lojik]

Could you explain to me how raising minimum wage eliminates low skill labor opportunities? I'm not an economist and don't understand how those correlate. What I do know is that with the affordable health care act, all part time workers in low skill jobs will not be getting more than 25 hours a week. There needs to be some change in wages or this will be another nail in the coffin of our work force.

Best to give an example. Guy owns a restaurant. He finds if he hires one person, he can improve business, makes $20 more dollars/hour with the first hire. With the next hire, he makes $10 more dollars an hour. He's going to keep hiring people until the net benefit from hiring a new person = cost to employ said person. Someones productivity and their pay are directly correlated. So, essentially someone who is worth $10/hour will get $10/hour. If you raise minimum wage to $15/hour, the manager/owner isn't gonna just bite the bullet and lose money on an employee, that person is going to get fired. Also, the owner will make less money, and fewer people will be able to enjoy his goods, and likely the cost of these services will increase.

[Millburn]

Thank you for explaining that.

So with that in mind, how does the fact that productivity has been going up and up but wages haven't. Shouldn't wages keep in alignment with productivity, does that not translate to what you were talking about?

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/01/13/sunday-review/americas-productivity-climbs-but-wages-stagnate.html?_r=0

I mean obviously there's a difference between corporations and small businesses, but the majority of minimum wage jobs at least in my area of the world come from these large retailers where a raise in minimum wage seems justified due to the disparity between productivity and their paycheck.

[Ahldagor]

http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2011/crime-in-the-u.s.-2011/tables/expanded-homicide-data-table-8

why has no one commented on the murder stat going down every listed year?

also, the whole idea of freedom for humanity is a new thing that came up in the 1700's with that whole enlightenment period of western civilization. so has it been universal if it's just a relatively recent thought by western thinkers? this is something I think about and am curious of other's responses.

as for guns, they've gone from a necessity for living in terms of providing food and protection from threats to something that's under gone massive commodification. this nation is the best at commodification and people keep buying it up bit by bit. having a gun or not doesn't prevent anything from happening to an individual. gun's sold as a protective device that's bought and sold, and now the protection of the protective device must be bought (NRA donations). we all keep getting suckered hard. sucks, and a .45 is just damn fun to shoot.

[Lojik]

Thank you for explaining that.

So with that in mind, how does the fact that productivity has been going up and up but wages haven't. Shouldn't wages keep in alignment with productivity, does that not translate to what you were talking about?

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/01/13/sunday-review/americas-productivity-climbs-but-wages-stagnate.html?_r=0

I mean obviously there's a difference between corporations and small businesses, but the majority of minimum wage jobs at least in my area of the world come from these large retailers where a raise in minimum wage seems justified due to the disparity between productivity and their paycheck.

Hmm, I don't think I can sufficiently answer this question, as there are a lot of variables to examine. However, note the article mentioned increased outsourcing of jobs as a problem, and I doubt they are including wages paid to outsourced jobs, even though the outsourced jobs would contribute to the productivity increases. If minimum wage is raised even higher, this would be an even bigger problem.

To your example of the retailer, is it the menial employee who is greatly contributing to the increased productivity? Most likely not, as I'd wager that they are getting paid close to what they're worth. If minimum wage were raised, you might only have 50 employees at the stores as opposed to 55 or 60.

A welfare state doesn't help the situation either, as the opportunity cost of not working to someone who is receiving welfare (assuming they'll even make more working than just being on welfare) is considerably reduced, so they are essentially working for pennies an hour as opposed to the $10/hour or whatever minimum wage is.

[liveitup1216]

If anything it should be made easier to buy guns. Give them out to everybody. Let the crazies thin out the herd a bit, its not like there's a shortage of humans.

Imagine the world with 1 billion less people, there's your miracle world economy fix.

[Famous]

Gun control, this reaction is another symptom of the real problem we face in this world today. As if taking away or putting restrictions on a handful of material objects will solve our problems.

How about we consider the fact that we shove mind altering drugs down kids throats during the most important developmental stages of their lives? How about the fact that the family unit has been devalued and many kids grow up in broken homes? How about the fact that we have turned a spiritual life into the subject of ridicule? And you wonder why the world seems so fucked up?

The only way to prevent these tragedies from occurring is with a fundamental shift in the way we live our lives, the way we treat each other, and the way we think about ourselves. But we would rather just pass a law and take a few inanimate objects away from people. =)

[Humerox]

Please cite sources that prove that the majority of Americans supported the bill.

If you need that you're uninformed. Or you restrict your viewing to Fox News and the Rush Limbaugh show. Either way, it's a fact.

You're missing the point, however. A MINORITY in the Senate blocked a bipartisan VOTE with a filibuster. Grats to the "winnerz" who think they live in a democracy instead of a Fascist state.

If the bill had been VOTED down I wouldn't need to say a damn thing.

[Kagatob]

Gun control, this reaction is another symptom of the real problem we face in this world today. As if taking away or putting restrictions on a handful of material objects will solve our problems.

How about we consider the fact that we shove mind altering drugs down kids throats during the most important developmental stages of their lives? How about the fact that the family unit has been devalued and many kids grow up in broken homes? How about the fact that we have turned a spiritual life into the subject of ridicule? And you wonder why the world seems so fucked up?

Stopped reading there. Go back to faux.

[Black Jesus]

We live in a fascist state becuase senators used a common procedure to block a bill that violates your liberties.

And you wonder why we say liberalism = mental disorder

[Stormhowl]

So about those countries where people are restricted on gun ownership, or can't even own them in the first place, like Canada or Japan. Pretty interesting that both countries have lower crime rates despite everyone's claims that gun control won't help, huh?

Not reading through 12 pages to see if someone else mentioned it. That's a headache and a half trying to read through a bunch childish of bipartisan bickering and feces-throwing.

[Black Jesus]

So about those countries where people are restricted on gun ownership, or can't even own them in the first place, like Canada or Japan. Pretty interesting that both countries have lower crime rates despite everyone's claims that gun control won't help, huh?

Not reading through 12 pages to see if someone else mentioned it. That's a headache and a half trying to read through a bunch childish of bipartisan bickering and feces-throwing.

Canada also has 1/10th the population dispersed in the same amount of area. They are also a politer society.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-Kp-aentdQX0/USUBoaQRHTI/AAAAAAAAJmg/IMVZNZXqhOs/s1600/2012+KIC+study+analysis.jpg

Crime rate is almost identical per 100,000 though.

[Humerox]

We live in a fascist state becuase senators used a common procedure to block a bill that violates your liberties.

And you wonder why we say liberalism = mental disorder


Well...the filibuster itself is another issue. It needs to be fixed. The problem is that legislation that should be debated and voted on isn't hitting the floor, and that the filibuster today is a far cry from what it was and what it was intended to do.

http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j248/jaynecounty/art-gop-fascism-poster.jpg

[Nihilist_santa]

So about those countries where people are restricted on gun ownership, or can't even own them in the first place, like Canada or Japan. Pretty interesting that both countries have lower crime rates despite everyone's claims that gun control won't help, huh?

Not reading through 12 pages to see if someone else mentioned it. That's a headache and a half trying to read through a bunch childish of bipartisan bickering and feces-throwing.

Nice job stacking the deck why didn't you mention Switzerland? They have highest gun ownership although arguable because handgun ownership is so restricted and they have almost no violent crime from guns. This is a nation where they give 20 year old males an M57 assault rifle to keep at home for about 3 months while training and people in Switzerland can buy all kinds of military weapons. They also received their independence through a revolution and have militias at the ready for their defense (these gun owners/citizens).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_politics_in_Switzerland

For those who dont click links -

"Government statistics for the year 2010[15] records 40 homicides involving firearms, out of the 53 cases of homicide in 2010.

The annual rate of homicide by any means per 100,000 population was 0.70, which is one of the lowest in the world.[16] The annual rate of homicide by guns per 100,000 population was 0.52.[17]

[Humerox]

Yeah...the Swiss have a nice health care system and the world's nicest ghettos, too.

Apples:Oranges

[Kagatob]

^ Think Switzerland is interesting in that area, try Norway, they have even more guns and THE WORLD's lowest gun related crime %. Citizens there are actually required to own a gun and learn how to use it properly, also they are required to go to firearm retraining every so many years (forget 3 or 5).

With that said, both nations also have extensive firearm regulations/laws and very swift/serious punishments for disobeying them.

[Gadwen]

If you need that you're uninformed. Or you restrict your viewing to Fox News and the Rush Limbaugh show. Either way, it's a fact.


I don't listen to Rush Limbaugh and I don't watch any cable news. But It's nice to see that when someone questions your facts, you would rather throw around insults instead of trying to back them up.

I have heard that it was "widely supported" and "Very popular" from all sorts of media outlets, what do they have to back up this "fact"?

[Samoht]

So about those countries where people are restricted on gun ownership, or can't even own them in the first place, like Canada or Japan. Pretty interesting that both countries have lower crime rates despite everyone's claims that gun control won't help, huh?

if you look at the UK as an example, they had a rise in crime for a few years before any positive change after they had complete civilian disarmament, but the UK is different from the US because it has virtually always been illegal for civilians to own weapons dating back to the 1100's.

the UK just wasn't as saturated as the US is with guns, so initiating gun control in the US will A) increase crime and B) maintain a high level of crime for a much longer period of time than the UK did.

If you need that you're uninformed. Or you restrict your viewing to Fox News and the Rush Limbaugh show. Either way, it's a fact.

You're the actual uninformed one, here. You're being spoon-fed falsities by the liberal media. Nobody wants more gun control but a few nut jobs.

I love the title of this article: How Democrats Got Gun Control Polling Wrong (http://www.nationaljournal.com/domesticpolicy/how-democrats-got-gun-control-polling-wrong-20130321)

[Humerox]

You're the actual uninformed one, here. You're being spoon-fed falsities by the liberal media. Nobody wants more gun control but a few nut jobs.

You guys lift your head out of the sand long enough to squawk before putting it back in, lol.

We're talking background checks, btw. And it's not over.

Senate freezes gun bill in hopes of new compromise (http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2013/04/18/senate-gun-bill-what-next/2093419/)

Republicans won't oppose coming back to the gun issue. The No. 2 Republican in the Senate said Thursday that he hoped Democrats "would not choose to quit." Sen. John Cornyn, R-Texas, said the Senate could still do more to improve the federal background check system — especially in adding mental health and drug abuse records.

[Humerox]

I don't listen to Rush Limbaugh and I don't watch any cable news. But It's nice to see that when someone questions your facts, you would rather throw around insults instead of trying to back them up.

I have heard that it was "widely supported" and "Very popular" from all sorts of media outlets, what do they have to back up this "fact"?

I wasn't insulting you...although it's curious you took it that way. To be clearer...the bill we're talking about concerns background checks not gun control. In all fairness, I've tried to find polls that say a majority of Americans do not want expanded background checks.

I can't find any. :eek:

Polls that say they do:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/page/2010-2019/WashingtonPost/2013/03/12/National-Politics/Polling/question_10030.xml

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-34222_162-57564386-10391739/9-in-10-back-universal-gun-background-checks/

http://www.politico.com/story/2013/04/veterans-gun-background-checks-poll-89930.html

http://www.people-press.org/2013/01/14/in-gun-control-debate-several-options-draw-majority-support/

http://www.quinnipiac.edu/institutes--centers/polling-institute/national/release-detail?ReleaseID=1871

[Lojik]

I wasn't insulting you...although it's curious you took it that way. To be clearer...the bill we're talking about concerns background checks not gun control. In all fairness, I've tried to find polls that say a majority of Americans do not want expanded background checks.

I can't find any. :eek:

Polls that say they do:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/page/2010-2019/WashingtonPost/2013/03/12/National-Politics/Polling/question_10030.xml

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-34222_162-57564386-10391739/9-in-10-back-universal-gun-background-checks/

http://www.politico.com/story/2013/04/veterans-gun-background-checks-poll-89930.html

http://www.people-press.org/2013/01/14/in-gun-control-debate-several-options-draw-majority-support/

http://www.quinnipiac.edu/institutes--centers/polling-institute/national/release-detail?ReleaseID=1871

I'm curious to know how "background checks" are not considered "gun control." Even if they are not considered "gun control," this bill also included a ban on certain types of firearms, so yes it does concern gun control.

I'm also curious as to how respondents would change their vote if specifics were asked on how background checks would be expanded such as:

Would you support a background check for borrowing a friends hunting rifle?

Support charging up to $125 to run background checks for gun sales?

Support weakened mental health privacy laws?

All of these would be in the proposed STM bill. I am not saying i am opposed or for, but I am sure that if these questions were asked the support would drop significantly from 90%.

[Black Jesus]

Who gives a fuck what polls say? You can get people on the street to sign petitions repealing the 1st amendment, in fact there's a bajillion videos of similar things on youtube. That's why we're a republic and not a democracy because as the founders knew, the people aren't smart enough to make rational decisions.

There's no reason for more gun laws when they can't even enforce the ones we have. Criminals will obtain guns, and do bad things with them. That's why we need a greater number of good guys armed. You fucking liberals are only adding more hassle to people going the legit way and following the law to obtain their weapons. And don't give me that crime of passion bullshit, every household has a knife and baseball bat which both work great for killing your tramp wife.

[Raavak]

You're the actual uninformed one, here. You're being spoon-fed falsities by the liberal media. Nobody wants more gun control but a few nut jobs.Yet they claim they don't know why the legislation fails. The truth is your last sentence.

[Samoht]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/page/2010-2019/WashingtonPost/2013/03/12/National-Politics/Polling/question_10030.xml

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-34222_162-57564386-10391739/9-in-10-back-universal-gun-background-checks/

http://www.politico.com/story/2013/04/veterans-gun-background-checks-poll-89930.html

http://www.people-press.org/2013/01/14/in-gun-control-debate-several-options-draw-majority-support/

http://www.quinnipiac.edu/institutes--centers/polling-institute/national/release-detail?ReleaseID=1871

I'm pretty sure that none of these poles were performed by unbiased companies and that the results are not legally admissible in any way, shape, or form.

WTB Pew Research pole on increased gun control

Update: Found one (http://www.people-press.org/2013/03/12/gun-rights-vs-gun-control/#total). Note the sharp decrease in support (now below 50%) over the last 5 years.

This chart (http://www.pewresearch.org/2013/03/13/gun-control-key-data-points-from-pew-research/) shows 60% support back in 2007, down to 45% in April 2012, but back up to 50% now. Last I checked, 50% is not a majority. I'm willing to bet sensationalized media headlines have something to do with the latest spike.

[Stinkum]

Every poll ever has shown Americans support background checks in the 90% margins.

Even gun owners support background checks in the 90% margin.

If you are against them, you belong to a highly fringe minority.

These are the facts, whether you like them or not.

[Black Jesus]

We already have background checks who gives a shit. A background check doesnt tell you SHIT about a person anyway. The best criminals never get caught cause they don't get their hands dirty (see: our entire banking system)

Also yea I'd feel so safe being disarmed with boston bomber on the loose and the cops all gettin fat at dunkin donuts

[Humerox]

I'm pretty sure that none of these poles were performed by unbiased companies and that the results are not legally admissible in any way, shape, or form.

WTB Pew Research pole on increased gun control

Update: Found one (http://www.people-press.org/2013/03/12/gun-rights-vs-gun-control/#total). Note the sharp decrease in support (now below 50%) over the last 5 years.

This chart (http://www.pewresearch.org/2013/03/13/gun-control-key-data-points-from-pew-research/) shows 60% support back in 2007, down to 45% in April 2012, but back up to 50% now. Last I checked, 50% is not a majority. I'm willing to bet sensationalized media headlines have something to do with the latest spike.

I'm not confusing gun control with background checks. It's interesting that you've made a case that at least HALF of Americans DO want more gun control.

The Manchin-Toomey Background Check Amendment included no language or intent to ban any kind of weapon. People are just tossing that shit around. It was a bipartisan bill that was even endorsed by the Citizens Committee for the Right to Keep and Bear Arms (http://pjmedia.com/tatler/2013/04/17/what-is-the-manchin-toomey-background-check-amendment/). CCRKBA pulled their endorsement over a provision that didn't allow for rights restoration...but I'm guessing that the next version of the bill will address that, now that the GOP has pulled their heads out of their behinds and are backpedaling.

At least the GOP has realized it stepped on its dick this time around...and you guys need to get off the "omg dey are afta my gunz" hysteria.

[Samoht]

and you guys need to get off the "omg dey are afta my gunz" hysteria.

Which part about the list of 69 proposed bans or the registration/confiscation pathway is confusing to you?

[Kagatob]

Also yea I'd feel so safe being disarmed with boston bomber on the loose and the cops all gettin fat at dunkin donuts

Nobody is trying to disarm anyone. Stop being a retarded wigger. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rjhj5VVNeOw)

[Nune]

Nobody is trying to disarm anyone. Stop being a retarded wigger. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rjhj5VVNeOw)

Making semi-automatic weapons illegal to own or purchase is NOT disarming people, says the person calling someone else retarded.

Scurry back to your Huffingtonpost blog comments where ignorant liberal remarks go to be :cool:

[Lazortag]

^ Think Switzerland is interesting in that area, try Norway, they have even more guns and THE WORLD's lowest gun related crime %. Citizens there are actually required to own a gun and learn how to use it properly, also they are required to go to firearm retraining every so many years (forget 3 or 5).

With that said, both nations also have extensive firearm regulations/laws and very swift/serious punishments for disobeying them.

No one is required to own a gun in Norway. I know Norway has pretty strict requirements for owning a gun, but I don't know what the requirements are in the US, so it's kind of hard to compare them (I could probably wikipedia it, but that would take too many clicks). Another thing though is that you can't bring a weapon to a public place unless you're transporting it for a good reason, and unless it's empty and concealed at all times. So Norway isn't some utopia where no one shoots each other for fear of their own mutually assured destruction, and the reason everyone has guns is more related to their hunting culture than anything else.

[EchoedTruth]

If you believe you should have military style assault weapons designed to kill armored soldiers then where's my fucking loaded flak truck or M1A1 tank?

yes pls

[Black Jesus]

we need background checks for the 1st amendment, because you know, people misuse it, so we have to punish everybody for the actions of other people

if we outlaw backyard swimming pools kids wont be able to drown

please liberals keep it up we need more nanny state controlling our lives

[Samoht]

hell, i want back ground checks for the 14th, 15th, 19th, and 26th amendments now, too

[Stinkum]

You can pin it on "liberals" and "Huffington post commenters" if it helps you feel better. The thing is, over 90% of Americans and 90% of gun owners support background checks. I don't know if you realize how hard it is to get 90% of Americans to agree on something. Your opinion is way out there in batshit crazy-ville.

Fringe of the fringe.

[Samoht]

over 90% of Americans and 90% of gun owners support background checks.

made-up statistic is made-up.

[Black Jesus]

Who gives a fuck what the people think? This isn't a democracy, it's a republic. If minority view is gun rights, guess what, we're still protected.

Watch people willingly sign away their 1st amendment: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SpHOaW99ST4

[Stinkum]

made-up statistic is made-up.

I'm sorry you're upset when presented with the fact that you belong in a fringe whacko of minority opinion.

Polls show that Americans "overwhelmingly" support "expanding background checks." True (http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2013/apr/18/gabrielle-giffords/gabby-giffords-says-americans-overwhelmingly-suppo/)

• Washington Post-ABC News poll, April 11-14, 2013: "Would you support or oppose a law requiring background checks on people buying guns at gun shows or online?" Support: 86 percent. Oppose: 13 percent.

• CNN/Opinion Research Corp. poll, April 5-7, 2013: "Some proposals would require a background check on anyone attempting to purchase a gun in order to determine whether the prospective buyer has been convicted of a felony or has a mental health problem. Please tell me whether you would favor or oppose a background check for a prospective gun buyer under each of the following circumstances. ... If the buyer is trying to purchase a gun at a gun show." Favor: 83 percent. Oppose: 17 percent.

• Quinnipiac University poll, March 26-April 1, 2013. "Do you support or oppose requiring background checks for all gun buyers?" Support: 91 percent. Oppose: 8 percent.

• CBS News poll, March 20-24, 2013. "Would you favor or oppose background checks on all potential gun buyers?" Favor: 90 percent. Oppose: 8 percent.

In four polls over the prior month, between 83 percent and 91 percent of respondents said they would favor an expansion of the current background check regime. We think any reasonable person would conclude that those percentages qualify as "overwhelming."

It must suck being in the Fred Phelps of marginalized opinions.

[Black Jesus]

What exactly is "expanding" background checks? All FFL dealers already require Form 4473 and perform NICS background checks for every transaction, even at gun shows.'

This is liberal media hype.

[Stinkum]

Four independent polls taken in the previous month clearly showing support for expansion of background checks among 83-91% percent of respondents = "Liberal media hype"

You heard it here, folks.

[Black Jesus]

You didn't answer the question. The poll taker was clearly misinformed, as well as the people questioned. This is why we are not a democracy controlled by mob rule where 51% can dictate policy to the sane, rational people.

[Hitchens]

Naez how did you manage to get people to take you seriously?

[Stinkum]

So, first you deny 90% of Americans support background checks.

Then when presented with irrefutable proof that they do, you change your opinion to "Clearly, these 90% of people are misinformed."

You heard it here, folks.

[Black Jesus]

I never denied anything. You have me confused for someone else. I saw those polls a week ago and rolled my eyes at the ignorance, and will continue to point out why they are wrong at every opportunity.

Now answer my question.

What exactly is "expanding" background checks? All FFL dealers already require Form 4473 and perform NICS background checks for every transaction, even at gun shows.

[Stinkum]

A little reading comprehension? The questions are pretty fucking clear.

"Would you support or oppose a law requiring background checks on people buying guns at gun shows or online?"

Support: 86 percent. Oppose: 13 percent.

"Some proposals would require a background check on anyone attempting to purchase a gun in order to determine whether the prospective buyer has been convicted of a felony or has a mental health problem. Please tell me whether you would favor or oppose a background check for a prospective gun buyer under each of the following circumstances. ... If the buyer is trying to purchase a gun at a gun show."

Favor: 83 percent. Oppose: 17 percent.

"Do you support or oppose requiring background checks for all gun buyers?"

Support: 91 percent. Oppose: 8 percent.

"Would you favor or oppose background checks on all potential gun buyers?"

Favor: 90 percent. Oppose: 8 percent.

Sorry, you're not weaseling your way out of this one, bub.

[Black Jesus]

I already told you why these polls are retarded as fuck.

It's the same deal when you buy a gun online, it isn't just next-day shipped straight to your door. You have to send it to a FFL dealer, fill out a Form 4473, and pass a NICS background check before they will release it to you. Some states even have waiting periods.

Let me re-iterate: We've already had these laws on the books since 1968. It seems to me you are the one problems with reading comprehension problems.

[Stinkum]

So once again, I irrefutably prove you wrong. Once again, you ignore that fact and then change the goal post.

You're a weasel. That's your entire modus operandi.

I'll take your constant evasions as a concession of defeat.

[Kagatob]

Making semi-automatic weapons illegal to own or purchase is NOT disarming people, says the person calling someone else retarded.

Scurry back to your Huffingtonpost blog comments where ignorant liberal remarks go to be :cool:

The part in bold isn't even close to being attempted so stop getting your panties in a bunch over crap you are making up. Background checks do not make anything illegal.

Even if they did 'ban' military style assault weapons that would not make semi-automatic weapons illegal, only certain envisioned/designed/tested to kill humans during every step of their creation assault weapons.

For someone who is presenting themselves as pro-gun you really know little about weaponry.

[Black Jesus]

So once again, I irrefutably prove you wrong. Once again, you ignore that fact and then change the goal post.

You're a weasel. That's your entire modus operandi.

I'll take your constant evasions as a concession of defeat.

Yea the people agree with background checks. GOOD THING WE ALREADY HAVE THEM HUH. I'd like to keep guns out of your hands, you are too stupid to not make a mess.


It's like asking, "Should we invade Afghanistan?" and 91% of people saying yes. It's besides the point-- because we're already in fuckign Afghanistan anyway

The part in bold isn't even close to being attempted so stop getting your panties in a bunch over crap you are making up. Background checks do not make anything illegal.

Even if they did 'ban' military style assault weapons that would not make semi-automatic weapons illegal, only certain envisioned/designed/tested to kill humans during every step of their creation assault weapons.

For someone who is presenting themselves as pro-gun you really know little about weaponry.

The "military style assault" is a misnomer of liberal media proportions. Most hunting rifles have the same characteristics and are even chambered in larger rounds, yet because they don't look scary get a pass. Also I'm pretty sure all guns are designed to kill, it's kind of the point.

[Hitchens]

BEEP BOOP HOW DO I HUMAN

[Stinkum]

Yea the people agree with background checks. GOOD THING WE ALREADY HAVE THEM HUH.

Background checks are currently required in sales made by federally licensed gun dealers, but not for gun sales by private sellers.

The questions are asking if people would support requiring criminal background checks for ALL gun sales.

Around 90% of people in every poll said yes.

[Black Jesus]

You can only do like 2 sales in your life before needing an FFL. It's literally like .00001% of gun sales, and has background checks via required escrow of FFL in like every state but Utah. 10th amendment issue really.

The "gun show loophole" is one of the biggest myths the liberal media has dreamt up. In 99% of the undercover news video cases, state and/or federal laws are actually being broken: proving that laws DONT WORK

[Black Jesus]

How effective are background checks anyway?

More than 100 million such checks have been made in the last decade, leading to more than 700,000 denials.

They stopped 0.007% of people from buying a gun. Goog job.

[Kagatob]

The "gun show loophole" is one of the biggest myths the liberal media has dreamt up. In 99% of the undercover news video cases, state and/or federal laws are actually being broken: proving that laws DONT WORK

Even faux news disagrees with you on this point. Please stop posting.

How effective are background checks anyway?



They stopped 0.007% of people from buying a gun. Goog job.
At least learn to math before posting... .7% thank you.

[Naked]

lol @ angry liberals

[Black Jesus]

oh my excuse, trust me I have done farther math than you will ever. I can take the 3rd integral of a non-square linear dependent matrix and tell you the basis from the null space of eigenvectors corresponding to the eigenvalues even though the determinant is not 0. I can also show you the differential for circular area is rdϕdr, which by taking the double integral of 0 to R and 0 to 2π (radian rotation) is πr^2 which you learned in middle school but didn't know where it came from

The point is its still less than 1%. I'm sure the violent crime rate is that low in this country or any other.

[Samoht]

So, first you deny 90% of Americans support background checks.

Then when presented with irrefutable proof that they do, you change your opinion to "Clearly, these 90% of people are misinformed."

You heard it here, folks.

These aren't even scientific polls. I'm willing to deny it.

If I make a poll on my P99 website asking how many people like video games, then I'm sure it would be over 90%.

[Black Jesus]

they probably asked anti-american garbage leaving an obama rally

[Barkingturtle]

The majority of Americans are anti-American.

[Stinkum]

These aren't even scientific polls. I'm willing to deny it.

If I make a poll on my P99 website asking how many people like video games, then I'm sure it would be over 90%.

Willful ignorance is the state and practice of ignoring any sensory input that appears to contradict one's inner model of reality. At heart, it is almost certainly driven by confirmation bias.

Willful ignorance can involve outright refusal to read, hear or study, in any way, anything that does not conform to the person’s worldview. With regard to oneself, this can even extend to fake locked-in syndrome with complete unresponsiveness.
http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Willful_ignorance

[Black Jesus]

get a brain moran GO USA

[Kagatob]

This message is hidden because Black Jesus is on your ignore list.

Why did it take me that long? Not worth arguing with brainwashed sheep who ignore what is presented right before them.

[Nihilist_santa]

I am starting think that its more about an incremental approach where we focus on an overt confiscation gun grab while the groundwork is being laid to where they will license and permit gun ownership out of existence. Make ammo scarce and raise the price on everything. Tack on some fees and taxes for background checks, licenses etc. and eventually owning a gun becomes a bureaucratic nightmare. At the same time the 2nd amendment is preserved even if its made impotent. This seems more realistic to me than any kind of confrontation people might imagine. Just some thoughts I had on the issue today.

[Black Jesus]

^ yup. you give an inch, they'll take a mile

[Nihilist_santa]

Well it just makes sense because you already have half the country doing the work for you and you avoid open hostilities. Meanwhile we run around gawking at the circus created in a perpetual state of anxiety and division. Reminds me of Alvin Tofflers book Future Shock where as technology creates more information people become inundated and are unable to make a decision due to a sort of information overload. I mean this week its terrorist, last week it was North Korea, next week it will be something else all while the noose is tightening.

[Naked]

amen

[Ahldagor]

http://bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/htus8008.pdf

Interesting trends.

[smokemon]

9/11 was an inside job, has it been said yet ? hahah

[Nihilist_santa]

9/11 was an inside job, has it been said yet ? hahah

IMO they are all inside jobs. The terrorist never seem to manage to take out ANY of the people screwing everyone on a global scale. Im not endorsing that anyone take those actions but you would think besides conveniently scarring people at politically opportune moments they might actually accomplish something in line with their ideological goals. The media acts like the world is a comic book and all we get is the Joker pulling "random" acts of violence and terror with no real motivation outside of being a psychopath :rolleyes:

[Clark]

http://img13.imageshack.us/img13/7033/24310659.jpg

:D enjoyed that haha

[Doors]

Kagotob is getting so dominated in this argument he's putting people on ignore.

Just another angry liberal that can't handle the opposing argument making valid arguments.

Thread done, nothing more to see here.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-DAotFENYXZ4/UQGYubkCPuI/AAAAAAAAC8A/E8JYyJEpbw0/s1600/storm-troopers+move+along.jpg

[Kagatob]

Kagotob is getting so dominated in this argument he's putting people on ignore.

I apologize that I got sick of seeing posts from a wigger who continually made statements that had 0 references to back them up and disregarded 6, count them 6, different people attempted to explain to him that he was misinformed and provided him with multiple references each. But you're blind as well. If you want to consider my giving up on trying to convince an ignorant person to stop being ignorant as my giving up on the debate that's your prerogative.

I'd also like to note that throughout the thread the only side that has resorted to labeling time and time again is the blind pro-gun wiggers/southerners. I haven't seen the word 'liberal' tossed around so much since the last time I was unfortunate enough to see more than a minute of faux news.

Guess what, I'm not a liberal, you are still ignorant and mistaken.

Nothing else to see from you here, it's the same ol' shitty tune each time.

[Naked]

yeah? Well that's just like your opinion man

[Nihilist_santa]

Why do people say "faux news" as if other mainstream media outlets are not propaganda mouth pieces?

^this is not endorsing Fox news btw.

[Kagatob]

Why do people say "faux news" as if other mainstream media outlets are not propaganda mouth pieces?

^this is not endorsing Fox news btw.

I don't know any funny names for MSNBC, I do call CNN the Cirno News Network. Cirno is a character who is famous for being stupid.

[Tasslehofp99]

Thread title should read: Americans fail, elect politicians who are rich and don't care about protecting it's citizens or their freedom.




Thought people would have learned after what clinton did to our intelligence agencies and military spending to stop electing sissies as president. This country has gotten so weak in the last 20 years, wtb a hard ass motherfucking president who will protect his citizens and their rights.

[Kagatob]

Thread title should read: Americans fail, elect politicians who are rich and don't care about protecting it's citizens or their freedom.




Thought people would have learned after what clinton did to our intelligence agencies and military spending to stop electing sissies as president. This country has gotten so weak in the last 20 years, wtb a hard ass motherfucking president who will protect his citizens and their rights.

Are you really knocking the greatest 8 years this country has had since Kennedy?

[Autotune]

If you believe you should have military style assault weapons designed to kill armored soldiers then where's my fucking loaded flak truck or M1A1 tank?

LMFAO

It's not the gun that is used to kill armored soldiers fuck stick.

[Kagatob]

LMFAO

It's not the gun that is used to kill armored soldiers fuck stick.

Incorrect. Go away now toolboy.

[Autotune]

Incorrect. Go away now toolboy.

Oh? Please enlighten me on how the M16 or an AR15, without any bullets, is designed to take out an armored soldier.

[Kagatob]

Oh? Please enlighten me on how the M16 or an AR15, without any bullets, is designed to take out an armored soldier.

The same way a car without gas is manufactured to get you from point A to point B. Semantics.

[Autotune]

The same way a car without gas is manufactured to get you from point A to point B. Semantics.

No.


Rounds (bullet, shell, powder, etc) are designed for specific targets (armored, etc).

Guns are a delivery system. However, guns are designed less for the lethal part and more for accuracy, reliability, ease of use, weight, attachments, etc. It doesn't matter what type of delivery system you have on an armored target if your bullet doesn't meet the requirements.

An AP round in a hunting rifle will function just as well as in a "military styled (key fucking word there moron) assault rifle".

Caliber and the type of bullet is the lethal aspect of a gun's weapon system (on semi-automatics).

I'm guessing you think all black people with saggy pants and "do-rags" are gangsters and thugs because of how they are styled. Your view on guns is literally the same thing as this.

[Humerox]

id like to throw a poll up here for all the "conservatives" about legalizing pot, keeping church and state separate while tossing in a pro choice/life question and about 99% of all the "conservatives" here would land on the liberal side of the fence.

just sayin

[Humerox]

I'm guessing you think all black people with saggy pants and "do-rags" are gangsters and thugs because of how they are styled.

my family thinks so:

http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r254/Humerox/164766_490785891715_1210145_n_zpsd04e31a6.jpg

[Gwence]

this was a lazy bill to be honest, can't say I care one way or the other that it didnt pass.

with that said, I'll remind you all that in any other developed democratic country around the world the bill would have passed with a 56% majority vote

for some reason we have a filibuster in this country that lets the losing side basically
"call shenanigans" and veto the bill.

The bigger issue here imo is the representation in the Senate, when the constitution was being written and the bill of rights and everything else the founding fathers put together none of them could have predicted that this country would evolve into 50 states and that some of those states (Montana, Alaska, Wyoming, etc etc) from a population standpoint would be much much less than our bigger states.

Why then do those states get an equal amount of representation in the Senate? They don't in the House... it doesn't make much sense for the Senate either.

[Tasslehofp99]

I think the main issue is that the republican and democrat parties are too big and powerfull but fail to properly represent a majority of this nations people. The elections are practically rigged in terms kf how much money it requires to win one. There needs to be strict regulations on contributions to political parties and a limit on campaign spending. There is no chance for a legitimate 3rd party to.emerge and win an election, even if they better represented the american people. Donald trump and friends could single handedly choose the next american president if he wanted to.




People should have to take voting literacy tests as well, that way we can use the popular vote to elect presidents instead of the electoral college. If voters were required to show basic intelligence in regards to politics and american history the voter turnout would be a lot lower, but atleast we wouldn't have retards who are uneducated voting whichever way mtv or their parents tell them to

[Barkingturtle]

Thread illustrates nicely how guns attract the worst our society has to offer.

Good thing we're takin' 'em all away.

[Humerox]

and in other news Adolphus A. Busch IV (the beer king) resigns from the NRA over their stance on background checks.

No beer for you! (http://tv.msnbc.com/2013/04/18/the-nra-loses-its-beer-money-anheiser-busch-heir-resigns/)

[Vadd]

When a crackhead and his buddies break into your house fiending for dope and try to tie your kids up for ransom and rape your wife, would you rather sit in the corner crying/shitting on yourself or shoot them in the fucking face and paint new colors on your drywall?

I'll tell you if you don't have a gun, the people who do keep you safe. Because criminals don't know which house has a gun behind the door. If we didn't need guns, we wouldn't need locks. The door is locked for your protection, not mine.

[Barkingturtle]

Oh come on. Nobody wants to rape your nasty-ass wife. You're delusional.

[Langrisser]

yea, if we're talking statistics lets use our heads...

the hero scenario and endofdays you freaks are waiting for will never come except as it comes to all men. your gun wont save you from the reaper :)

guns will also not give you medical care. would you rather have guns or doctors... just sayin. fuck off with the guns and get a real hobby please, this is 2013 thanks.

todays modern society in urban cities has little use for rifles to be open carried. the wide array of handguns, tasers, pepperspray, camera systems, cellphones, armor options, and police services should be the combination of personal protection and government service to handle your needs. you are not rambo, bros.

you of course should be allowed to have whatever weapons if you are out a certain distance from certain services and/or among wilderness threats, or just for fun... being near other people probably isnt your thing anyway so leave it to people who are adapted to living in a community without being totally paranoid and hoarding RPG's to fight ... who again??

[Nihilist_santa]

yea, if we're talking statistics lets use our heads...

the hero scenario and endofdays you freaks are waiting for will never come except as it comes to all men. your gun wont save you from the reaper :)

guns will also not give you medical care. would you rather have guns or doctors... just sayin. fuck off with the guns and get a real hobby please, this is 2013 thanks.

todays modern society in urban cities has little use for rifles to be open carried. the wide array of handguns, tasers, pepperspray, camera systems, cellphones, armor options, and police services should be the combination of personal protection and government service to handle your needs. you are not rambo, bros.

you of course should be allowed to have whatever weapons if you are out a certain distance from certain services and/or among wilderness threats, or just for fun... being near other people probably isnt your thing anyway so leave it to people who are adapted to living in a community without being totally paranoid and hoarding RPG's to fight ... who again??

You should try to understand Platos 5 regimes and where we fall in that list. Here I will help you. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plato%27s_five_regimes

The society you are putting so much faith in is prone to cycles where power becomes distributed amongst a few over a certain period of time. This centralization of powers becomes a Tyranny and has to be overthrown through the combined efforts of the people. This isn't about sport or even protection from criminals. An armed citizenry is the only defense against tyranny period. Non violent means are preferred but come on how many instances do you end up with something like a Gandhi where non violence wins out over a powerful force? Do you think anything even remotely like that is possible today with the vapid nature of our media obsessed culture?

Don't confuse the issues here the 2nd amendment is not about sport or crime. Its about protecting your god given rights from anyone else enforcing their will on you. This is why our system has checks and balances and even then the founders knew that would only work for so long (they probably understood Plato) so they put in another check that being an armed citizenry. Remove that last check and there is nothing to stop the rulers from doing what they want and backing it up with force, its been proven all throughout history.

[Black Jesus]

morans

[Black Jesus]

I want a new page

[Black Jesus]

I apologize that I got sick of seeing posts from a wigger who continually made statements that had 0 references to back them up and disregarded 6, count them 6, different people attempted to explain to him that he was misinformed and provided him with multiple references each. But you're blind as well. If you want to consider my giving up on trying to convince an ignorant person to stop being ignorant as my giving up on the debate that's your prerogative.

I'd also like to note that throughout the thread the only side that has resorted to labeling time and time again is the blind pro-gun wiggers/southerners. I haven't seen the word 'liberal' tossed around so much since the last time I was unfortunate enough to see more than a minute of faux news.

Guess what, I'm not a liberal, you are still ignorant and mistaken.

Nothing else to see from you here, it's the same ol' shitty tune each time.

They linked me polls I never asked for nor denied (as I had already seen them). I explained that FFL dealers need Form 4473 and NICS background checks for every sale, even on the internet/gun shows, so polling people about it is as retarded as asking if we should invade Iraq-- the damage is already done.

I don't know any funny names for MSNBC, I do call CNN the Cirno News Network. Cirno is a character who is famous for being stupid.

Communist News Network, just as (in)famously stupid too ;)

Thread title should read: Americans fail, elect politicians who are rich and don't care about protecting it's citizens or their freedom.




Thought people would have learned after what clinton did to our intelligence agencies and military spending to stop electing sissies as president. This country has gotten so weak in the last 20 years, wtb a hard ass motherfucking president who will protect his citizens and their rights.

I fail to understand how making guns harder to obtain is protecting my freedom. But I agree with you on the second part, we need a Putin in charge of this country.

Are you really knocking the greatest 8 years this country has had since Kennedy?

Clinton murdered like 50+ innocent children by firebombing them with tanks the first year of office at Waco. Then he staged okc and tried to pass something similar to the Patriot Act.

http://www.sstibbs.com/scott/images/waco3.jpg

id like to throw a poll up here for all the "conservatives" about legalizing pot, keeping church and state separate while tossing in a pro choice/life question and about 99% of all the "conservatives" here would land on the liberal side of the fence.

just sayin

The first amendment does not have a separation of church and state clause. Morans try suing the local courthouse for displaying the 10 commandments... but congress did not respect establishment of religion so they fail. Also abortion is murder, you don't want me to link a pic of that though (in fact, I've been banned for doing so before)

Thread illustrates nicely how guns attract the worst our society has to offer.

Good thing we're takin' 'em all away.

That might spark a 20+ year civil war more bloodier than the first one. I doubt it though, as a majority of the military is pro-gun.

todays modern society in urban cities has little use for rifles to be open carried. the wide array of handguns, tasers, pepperspray, camera systems, cellphones, armor options, and police services should be the combination of personal protection and government service to handle your needs. you are not rambo, bros.

LEAVE IT TO THE GOVERNMENT TO PROTECT YOU!!! owait, 9/11. Man 1 armed pilot might have made all the difference whoda thunk guns could save lives........

[Barkingturtle]

Don't confuse the issues here the 2nd amendment is not about sport or crime. Its about protecting your god given rights from anyone else enforcing their will on you. This is why our system has checks and balances and even then the founders knew that would only work for so long (they probably understood Plato) so they put in another check that being an armed citizenry. Remove that last check and there is nothing to stop the rulers from doing what they want and backing it up with force, its been proven all throughout history.

I'm surprised a dude who evidently once purchased an Intro to Philosophy textbook at his local community college could be so dumb.

I mean really, just really. Until the second amendment guarantees our right to possess and utilize in our self-defense jets, missiles, helicopters, killer robots and AIDS the government is going to find the citizenry a minor annoyance should they decide they want to "enforce their will upon you". Even armed to the best of your ability, the government is gonna fuck you up, son.

Just admit you're afraid of being raped by a black dude. And by "afraid" I mean "afraid you'll get caught loving it". That's what it usually boils down to within the consumer segment of the gun culture.

[Nihilist_santa]

I'm surprised a dude who evidently once purchased an Intro to Philosophy textbook at his local community college could be so dumb.

I mean really, just really. Until the second amendment guarantees our right to possess and utilize in our self-defense jets, missiles, helicopters, killer robots and AIDS the government is going to find the citizenry a minor annoyance should they decide they want to "enforce their will upon you". Even armed to the best of your ability, the government is gonna fuck you up, son.

Just admit you're afraid of being raped by a black dude. And by "afraid" I mean "afraid you'll get caught loving it". That's what it usually boils down to within the consumer segment of the gun culture.

So in other words you have no real rebuttal except for ad hominem attacks among the other employed logical fallacies in your post? The Government cant even handle Afghanistan you think they can handle 100+ million armed citizens? Not just enemies but friends and family. Try not to be so myopic.

[Humerox]

The first amendment does not have a separation of church and state clause

naw...one of the writers just used the term in "expressing an understanding of the intent and function of the Establishment Clause and Free Exercise Clause"...

but hey...he just helped draft it and all

[Humerox]

The Government cant even handle Afghanistan you think they can handle 100+ million armed citizens?

90 million of whom will be sucking dicks for french fries after less than a week of cave living...don't knock the Afghanis...

this is actually a good time to bring up the fact that framer's intent probably meant the right to bear arms in order to have a militia so there could be organized resistance to government...but there is no militia and no organization so it's just a bunch of tools. 100 million rednecks spattering their driveways with assault weapons fire while Apache gunships, heavy artillery and drones blow them all to smithereens.

Fuck yeah! Merica!

[Black Jesus]

naw...one of the writers just used the term in "expressing an understanding of the intent and function of the Establishment Clause and Free Exercise Clause"...

but hey...he just helped draft it and all

the Court has not always interpreted the constitutional principle as absolute, and the proper extent of separation between government and religion in the U.S. remains an ongoing subject of impassioned debate.[3][4][5][6]

GOD BLESS COURTHOUSES WITH THE 10 COMMANDMENTS AND POLICE STATIONS WITH CHRISTMAS TREES

90 million of whom will be sucking dicks for french fries after less than a week of cave living...don't knock the Afghanis...

this is actually a good time to bring up the fact that framer's intent probably meant the right to bear arms in order to have a militia so there could be organized resistance to government...but there is no militia and no organization so it's just a bunch of tools. 100 million rednecks spattering their driveways with assault weapons fire while Apache gunships, heavy artillery and drones blow them all to smithereens.

Fuck yeah! Merica!

There are literally thousands of citizen militias. You like to quote Jefferson, maybe understand why he removed commas when ratifying the second amendment to give people the personal right to bear arms, regardless of militia involvement.

[feanan]

I'd assume during any civil war, the military would probably be split. So, hopefully both sides will have tanks and helos.

I doubt a lot of military people would have the stomach to start killing their fellow americans.

[Hitchens]

You guys really shouldn't spend so much time arguing with someone who lives with their grandma.

[Ahldagor]

crime is going down across the country, so how is it that paranoia is becoming seen as more rational?

[Black Jesus]

my pursuit of happiness includes the right to bear bazookas

[Humerox]

the Court has not always interpreted the constitutional principle as absolute, and the proper extent of separation between government and religion in the U.S. remains an ongoing subject of impassioned debate.

GOD BLESS COURTHOUSES WITH THE 10 COMMANDMENTS AND POLICE STATIONS WITH CHRISTMAS TREES

So the Quran would be OK next to it? Or is it just your religion that's allowed?



There are literally thousands of citizen militias. You like to quote Jefferson, maybe understand why he removed commas when ratifying the second amendment to give people the personal right to bear arms, regardless of militia involvement.

Eight different forms of the 2nd Amendment were ratified by the states. No one had a clue what they were ratifying and everyone is still arguing about it today.

Some states prohibit militias. Like California. And I hope you aren't suggesting that the various citizen militias are in any way organized, coordinated, or able to effectively ban together to defeat an attack from a tyrannical government.

Besides. We don't need no organimization. Merica!

[Humerox]

I'd assume during any civil war, the military would probably be split. So, hopefully both sides will have tanks and helos.

I doubt a lot of military people would have the stomach to start killing their fellow americans.

but some civilians seem to be OK with shooting US Army troops I guess. cuz that's who'd be representing the govment.

[Barkingturtle]

So in other words you have no real rebuttal except for ad hominem attacks among the other employed logical fallacies in your post? The Government cant even handle Afghanistan you think they can handle 100+ million armed citizens? Not just enemies but friends and family. Try not to be so myopic.

Bitch please. I don't rebut the cognitively dissonant--I ridicule.


Seriously though, maybe we should drop armed civilians into Afghanistan and let them have a shot at it. You know, since the military you so fear and despise has been so utterly inept.

[Black Jesus]

So the Quran would be OK next to it? Or is it just your religion that's allowed?

The 10 commandments are Islamic. Also let's not make assumptions pertaining to my religion.

Eight different forms of the 2nd Amendment were ratified by the states. No one had a clue what they were ratifying and everyone is still arguing about it today.

Some states prohibit militias. Like California. And I hope you aren't suggesting that the various citizen militias are in any way organized, coordinated, or able to effectively ban together to defeat an attack from a tyrannical government.

Besides. We don't need no organimization. Merica!

It doesn't matter what the states ratified, what matters is what Jefferson put into the constitution, with his pen strokes guided by the power of Jesus.

CA does have militias, they just disguise themselves as bowling clubs. Actually some don't even go that far. I'm surprised it hasn't been challenged more in the courts actually.

[Humerox]

The 10 commandments are Islamic. Also let's not make assumptions pertaining to my religion.

I didn't. You inferred Christianity, did u not? Christmas trees (new testament) and 10 commandments? If you'd been talking Hanukkah I'd have figured Jadaism. But the pen strokes of Jesus...



It doesn't matter what the states ratified, what matters is what Jefferson put into the constitution, with his pen strokes guided by the power of Jesus.

which brings us back to what he meant about separation of church and state. he's the one that explained it...then you brought courts and stuffz up. ;)

CA does have militias, they just disguise themselves as bowling clubs. Actually some don't even go that far. I'm surprised it hasn't been challenged more in the courts actually.

Me too tbh. But the point stands about none of them being what the framers had in mind about militias.

Let me here call your attention to that part which gives the Congress power "to provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining the militia, and for governing such a part of them as may be employed in the service of the United States -- reserving to the states, respectively, the appointment of the officers, and the authority of training the militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress." By this, sir, you see that their control over our last and best defense is unlimited. If they neglect or refuse to discipline or arm our militia, they will be useless: the states can do neither -- this power being exclusively given to Congress. The power of appointing officers over men not disciplines or armed is ridiculous; so that this pretended little remains of power left to the states may, at the pleasure of Congress, be rendered nugatory. . . . Will the oppressor let go of the oppressed? Can the annal of mankind exhibit one single example where rulers overcharged with power willingly let go of the oppressed, though solicited and requested most earnestly? The application for amendments will therefore be fruitless. Sometimes the oppressed have got loose by one of those bloody struggles that desolate a country; but a willing relinquishment of power is one of those things which human nature never was, nor ever will be, capable of.

[Humerox]

Seriously though, maybe we should drop armed civilians into Afghanistan and let them have a shot at it. You know, since the military you so fear and despise has been so utterly inept.

ooooh let's...maybe then we wouldn't hear so much bullshit

[Black Jesus]

I didn't. You inferred Christianity, did u not? Christmas trees (new testament) and 10 commandments? If you'd been talking Hanukkah I'd have figured Jadaism. But the pen strokes of Jesus...

Messianic Judaism

Me too tbh. But the point stands about none of them being what the framers had in mind about militias.

Let me here call your attention to that part which gives the Congress power "to provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining the militia, and for governing such a part of them as may be employed in the service of the United States -- reserving to the states, respectively, the appointment of the officers, and the authority of training the militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress." By this, sir, you see that their control over our last and best defense is unlimited. If they neglect or refuse to discipline or arm our militia, they will be useless: the states can do neither -- this power being exclusively given to Congress. The power of appointing officers over men not disciplines or armed is ridiculous; so that this pretended little remains of power left to the states may, at the pleasure of Congress, be rendered nugatory. . . . Will the oppressor let go of the oppressed? Can the annal of mankind exhibit one single example where rulers overcharged with power willingly let go of the oppressed, though solicited and requested most earnestly? The application for amendments will therefore be fruitless. Sometimes the oppressed have got loose by one of those bloody struggles that desolate a country; but a willing relinquishment of power is one of those things which human nature never was, nor ever will be, capable of.


One interesting note about the Bill of Rights is they weren't included at first because they were just kind of de facto. Common knowledge at the time. Their addition was seen as superfluous. Gun ownership by citizens, freedom of religion, etc. were just a given and no big deal in the era.

[Nihilist_santa]

Bitch please. I don't rebut the cognitively dissonant--I ridicule.


Seriously though, maybe we should drop armed civilians into Afghanistan and let them have a shot at it. You know, since the military you so fear and despise has been so utterly inept.

Your lack of rebuttal has already been noted, no need to reinforce the notion. Stop living in a world of generalizations and sterotypes. "rednecks" are not the only people who own guns. What do you think happens to soldiers when they are done serving? They just forget everything they knew? Btw those armed civilians have already been dropped into Afghanistan through mercenary groups and organizations like Blackwater or whatever they are called now.

[Ahldagor]

my pursuit of happiness includes the right to bear bazookas

easy to get as is, but not very practical. they're tough to lug around and way outta date in technology terms. you could own a Gatling gun from civil war era or later, and the gov. wouldn't really care because they've much better fire arms than the public will ever get in terms of current technology. finding enough bears to keep your ammunition supplied could be more hazardous than the actual weapon.

[Barkingturtle]

Your lack of rebuttal has already been noted, no need to reinforce the notion. Stop living in a world of generalizations and sterotypes. "rednecks" are not the only people who own guns. What do you think happens to soldiers when they are done serving? They just forget everything they knew?

I never said any such thing--you're projecting your own self-loathing and attaching it to my very witty deconstruction of everything you believe in.


Btw those armed civilians have already been dropped into Afghanistan through mercenary groups and organizations like Blackwater or whatever they are called now.


Oh shit. This does not bode well for our nation, then, if the Afghans have managed to conquer not only our military but also our privately contracted civilian mercenaries. What makes them so much better than us? Is it Allah? I bet it's Allah.