nec or wiz for...

[Mythdar]

Velious, both solo and raiding

[kaos057]

Both are great soloers. As far as raiding it depends if you want to do really good dps or if you want to be a utility. Wizard sole purpose is to nuke while necros feed healers and do some lite dps. Once they make it so dots stack necros are a little better dps but I dont think that happens for a few months after velious.

[Raavak]

Necro might be better if you want to farm loot solo too. Otherwise pretty similar.

[Mythdar]

Mostly just to solo and lightly duo

[Pyrion]

I honestly don't think that for single target fights a wizard will out dps a necro, even if the necro will only use nukes. The necro will have more mana, compensating less efficient nukes. Plus the necro has a zero mana dot in the form of a pet. Of course, in AE groups that all changes. So in a normal group a necro has vastly more utility and does at least comparable dps to a wizard. Only reason to prefer a wizard in a normal group for me would be if i would think evacs/ports as essential.

Wizards need to be buffed. In normal groups they really suck.

[kaos057]

I honestly don't think that for single target fights a wizard will out dps a necro, even if the necro will only use nukes. The necro will have more mana, compensating less efficient nukes. Plus the necro has a zero mana dot in the form of a pet. Of course, in AE groups that all changes. So in a normal group a necro has vastly more utility and does at least comparable dps to a wizard. Only reason to prefer a wizard in a normal group for me would be if i would think evacs/ports as essential.

Wizards need to be buffed. In normal groups they really suck.

You are crazy. Mages dont even out dps wizards and their pets and nukes are way better than necro. Necros dots also dont stack so if there is another necro only one would be doing any dot dps. And necros should be feeding anyway.

[kaos057]

and for the record, having more mana in no way compensates for less efficient nukes. Its all about cast time to damage ratio. You could have unlimited mana and a wizard will still out dps a necro.

[Pyrion]

Sorry, but that is really stupid. A wizard can of course out dps anybody in a burst. But then he will have to med... and med...

What counts for group dps is damage to time ratio. And with better mana regeneration this gets obviously better, i can't even understand how you do not see that. And btw.: ANY mage does more dps than any wizard same level if you count pet damage as well. Necro mana regeneration is soo much better than wizards that even without a pet and the necro only using nukes (not dots at all) he will still do comparable dps. And then he has a pet too. Of course the wizard can do it faster, but what is the point in this?

Cast time to damage ratio is only relevant for burst dps. That's where wizards are kings. But thats mostly irrellevant. Where wizards shine xp/time wise is only ae groups (or quadding), nothing else.

[kaos057]

Ok when velious comes out and guilds are killing the 3 kings or dragons in ntov I will guarantee you that necros will not be a dps class. They will be medding and feeding.

[kaos057]

and mages will be staring at walls dropping rods on the ground.

[Nagash]

Remember that at some points during Velious dots will stack.

[Widan]

And also he asked about soloing and duoing as well. Wizards are only better for raiding, pick a necro unless most of your time is going to be raiding.

[Tuljin]

think about how many nasty casters and gating mobs are in velious - - then think about how many classes get stun/interrupt spells

theres no question necro is a better solo class, and theres no question wiz is a better raid class - both classes are extremely valuable in groups

if you wanna make a buck or two in velious roll a wiz

if you roll a wiz thinking that your primary role in a group is dps, roll another class cause nobody is going to want to play with you

[Zyn]

Both are great soloers. As far as raiding it depends if you want to do really good dps or if you want to be a utility. Wizard sole purpose is to nuke while necros feed healers and do some lite dps. Once they make it so dots stack necros are a little better dps but I dont think that happens for a few months after velious.

From what I've read, Necro dots don't stack til Luclin. Can anyone confirm this?

[kaos057]

if you roll a wiz thinking that your primary role in a group is dps, roll another class cause nobody is going to want to play with you

What other role could there possibly be? All wizards do is port and dps.

[Lojik]

Not sure how long after release wizards get bane spells, but those are great against boss mobs in Velious. A wiz with 3600 mana can take 16k guaranteed damage off a mob. Whats the most HP a raid target in velious has (besides sleeper or AoW.)

[Tuljin]

best dd stun spells in the game and the only interrupt nukes

-stop healing shaman and cleric mobs, stop nuking wizard mobs, stop gating mobs
-stop running mobs when the druid/ranger in your group forgets to snare after you delegated the responsibility to them (happens to me all the time)
-stun when charmed pet breaks and starts raping the enc/nec/druid that charmed it, saving your priest mana by not healing and often saving the other casters life
-pull mobs with flux staff
-hold caster agro and chainstun while rest of group beats on them and doesn't get nuked/slowed/poisoned/etc, wiz has best stuns and best resist gear
-evac your group and save their lives cause all statistics considered half of them are idiots
-fetter - on melee mobs its just as good as mez
-cancel magic on mobs, free the other casters to do other things (like manage pets)

we've done the math - wiz has very low sustained dps in an lcy situation- bfd - you should be quadding the drolvargs outside

stun is a very powerful tool that not many classes get, and geared correctly wiz is a crazy magic tank

if you think wiz is "just dps" all you will end up doing is sit on your ass

[Nirgon]

Keep looking at classes and their usefulness from the WoW standpoint of "who solo best" and "who do most damage"... lawl

[freez]

Not sure how long after release wizards get bane spells, but those are great against boss mobs in Velious. A wiz with 3600 mana can take 16k guaranteed damage off a mob. Whats the most HP a raid target in velious has (besides sleeper or AoW.)

in velious? pretty sure 1 million or 1.2 million.


get that wizard out of the way... hes taking up space needed for real dpsers under that dragon.

[freez]

best dd stun spells in the game and the only interrupt nukes



false??



druids get like 4 of these..

http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/spell.html?spell=520

[freez]

good lord tujin you have no clue what you are talking about and it doesnt seem like you have a clue how to play a wiz.

crazy magic tank



yeah right dude...


my god

[Tuljin]

you're an idiot

[Zyn]

O0 I wanna know more about crazy magic tank ^_^

[freez]

bro im not even going to break down your post showing whats wrong with everything


i just hope nobody whos serious about it reads that shit and runs with it.



crazy magic tank


till your 600 point 20pp rune wears and u croak?

[freez]

think about how many nasty casters and gating mobs are in velious - - then think about how many classes get stun/interrupt spells

theres no question necro is a better solo class, and theres no question wiz is a better raid class - both classes are extremely valuable in groups

if you wanna make a buck or two in velious roll a wiz

if you roll a wiz thinking that your primary role in a group is dps, roll another class cause nobody is going to want to play with you

necro can stun too.


gg

[freez]

if you roll a wiz thinking that your primary role in a group is dps, roll another class cause nobody is going to want to play with you


ya just wait till u tell them youre the crazy magic tank.


laughing irl atm. l. o. l.

[Tuljin]

you win im gonna go cry now and quit

[freez]

im glad to know you arent down to argue about why what you said is basicly 100% the opposite of how youre supposed to play a wizard and expect a half decent rep.

but really dude. hold off on giving eq advice. i cant even imagine your advice on other classes.

[Tuljin]

ok mr eq master please enlighten us plebeians

[freez]

well ill enlighten you on this tad bit.

wizards arent meant to be touched. half of ur class "skill?" as a player is to manage your aggro.

thats all im going to say. gg brah

[Tuljin]

well when you engage a caster you can stun him and keep him locked out of melee range - - you are stunning all his spells out and keeping a distance so that he starts casting them again while your melee classes beat on him and they aren't getting casted on - - if you're doing it right he wont even get spells off, and if he gets one off its likely to be partial or resist

if you stun out a shaman's first spell, which is likely going to be a slow (that would be directed at your melee instead of you if you didn't pull it) you can get off a concussion before he even comes out of the stun, at which point the agro from the caster mob will be directed at the melee attacking him. at that point you can continue to stun and draught of jiva while peppering in concussions and draught of ices during stun duration

the flux staff is an excellent pulling tool - it has a long range and it generates less social agro radius than a facepull. a lot of times you can single pull mobs and all it takes is one hit from a melee to redirect the agro. many times in seb camps a melee will go in to facepull several caster mobs and get raped by nukes by the time he gets back to camp leaving the useless cleric (who should also be stunning and doing some agro mitigation if he's good instead of just sitting on his ass) to have to waste mana on a CH. wiz can root pull melees and take the spells cast at him by casters better than a tank can, considering extremely high saves and the 250point spell-only rune manasink. with flux staff you can single pull pathing mobs and often catch them at the end of their path where they would agro other mobs if it was a facepull - this happens all the time in many different zones

with generating agro with nukes and stuns and reducing agro with concussion you can manipulate mobs in a very unique way, helping keep chainpulls going as well as stunning and rooting adds that beat on different party members as well as stunning broken pets etc.

a main job of the wizard is to stop spells from being cast and making sure that the rogue with low FR doesn't catch conflagration or make sure nobody takes an ice comet, slow, stun, poison, etcetc - the nature of the wizard spells, however, you are dealing damage the entire time and not roasting your mana bar

[p-niner]

B

[Motec]

Wizard for raid.
Also lol @ a necro even being close to them on single target dps on any velious, or kunark mob, ever. Necros feed mana and pull.

If they arent capable of pulling as good or better than most of your monks, you have fucking shit necros who should be shot. Because most monks suck very much. Like 95%. Those guys become 100% mana batteries and nothing more, because necro mana turned to cleric mana is win. Mage mana turned into wizard mana/barrier of force is win.

[kaos057]

a main job of the wizard is to stop spells from being cast and making sure that the rogue with low FR doesn't catch conflagration or make sure nobody takes an ice comet, slow, stun, poison, etcetc - the nature of the wizard spells, however, you are dealing damage the entire time and not roasting your mana bar

What game are we talking about?

[Motec]

Wizards stopping any spell from casting except gate is a lolwaste. Blow shit up son. And do it terribly because theyre super average in group before deep luclin or even PoP.

[coachblea]

Wow, lots of Hatred at the wizard class. So, as a Necro on live long ago and a Wizard on p99, I can hopefully cast some light on this. Necro is a very advanced class. They are very involved and require almost constant "playing". With their many utility spells and their mana regen they are constantly doing something, particularly solo. You can't leave your computer with a high level mana regen spell on, you'll come back naked and at your bind point. There is also a ton of necro's and competition for raid gear. That said, they are very fun and rewarding, have a definite use in raids, even if it is being a cleric sidekick, and can solo with the best of them especially in outdoor zones or against undead. Wizards are much more fun than I expected and while I am only 53, compared to getting 70 on necro, I am quite surprised with how much fun a wizard is. Ports are wonderful and cannot be discounted. You will make many friends and the feeling from helping a newb on a corpse run, or giving some level 12 char a free port and then finding out it was a TMO member who hooks you up for being a good person, it is an underrated aspect. Also, after getting flux staff and jboots, quadding is incredibly effective and very easy, especially after 51. It is also fun to just burn mobs down. In Velious there is a stark drop off in the amount of undead mobs, and many outdoor/open zones to quad in. CScar is a great zone for wizards and a ton of money can be made quadding quest gems and doing AoE groups. I remember watching wizards crushing wyverns 4 at a time in CScar while I was pulling them singly to a spot I could fear kite. In the end, necro are much more involved and are a constant playing class, while wizard allows you to play for 5 min then sit for 6-8 min(great for wife faction). It really depends on personal choice. If you want to be a necro be a necro and love it, if you want to be a wizard, be a wizard and love it. You can't go wrong with either and both are great classes, not like mages, yuck!

[Lojik]

in velious? pretty sure 1 million or 1.2 million.


get that wizard out of the way... hes taking up space needed for real dpsers under that dragon.

Most I saw was aow with 900k and vulak with 800k. Those fights will last awhile and require big numbers. Wiz should be able to med and do triple the previous number at least, which comes out to 1/16th of total hp which is pretty good. The true value in this though is being able to burn down that mob quickly once it gets down to 20 or 30%. Most targets have between 100 and 350k that I saw.
There's a reason guilds are looking for wizards.

[Malone88]

necro can stun too.

They can? What spell is that?

[Nirgon]

Screaming terror, but its more like a mez. You can also call your pet off until a mob casts, then send it in to try and interrupt because its bash will be up.

Hatred at wiz class is largely because all the parsers don't show spell damage that are posted at raids.

Wizard is a great class, people can suck it.

[Tuljin]

classic p99 forums - - morons keeping threads alive, intelligent posts killing them

false??



druids get like 4 of these..

http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/spell.html?spell=520

outdoor only? i gave you a chance to redeem yourself earlier, but you just kept on going....(which was the plan all along)


Wizards stopping any spell from casting except gate is a lolwaste. Blow shit up son. And do it terribly because theyre super average in group before deep luclin or even PoP.

please explain to me how a tishan's clash which only costs 65 mana stopping a slow spell which costs the melee player literally thousands of damage over the duration of the slow is an "lolwaste" - - i hear in velious wizards get a 5000dmg nuke that only costs 100 mana (it also saves the constant bitching of said melee player during the duration of the slow)

some of my best eq buddies are nec and druid, and in fact we've gone nec/wiz/dru as the anchor of groups w/o an enc or cleric in top dungeons tons of times and we've done way better than the classic "oh fucking shit the warrior pulled and is coming back to camp with 20% hp and the useless cleric has to CH omgzomgzomgz and the enc has to cast an aoemez by the skin of his teeth omgomg we're all gonna fucking die"

so please, keep the intelligent caster comments coming!!! (or go to RnF and continue to embarass yourselves there)

[kaos057]

So a single group in a dungeon is the same as a raid killing a raid mob? Interesting.

[kaos057]

please explain to me how a tishan's clash which only costs 65 mana stopping a slow spell which costs the melee player literally thousands of damage over the duration of the slow is an "lolwaste"

There are classes with better ways of interrupting spells that dont cost mana, dont have a cast time, and dont take away from mass damage output.

[kaos057]

Aslo what would delaying a slow for 5 seconds do? Or do you suggest all the wizards set up a stun rotation to prevent the tank from getting slowed instead of killing the target?

[Tuljin]

So a single group in a dungeon is the same as a raid killing a raid mob? Interesting.

wtf are you talking about? those are two completely different things and i never suggested they are the same....but guess what you need for both of those instances - - - high magic resists

you can have 3 interrupt spells in your bar at all times - tishan's clash, tishan's discord, and draught of jiva - - because the rest of your group is already plowing on the mob (one or two melees and a charmed pet) there is already plenty of damage being dealt.

if you use all 3 you will be able to cast them all without waiting for the long cooldowns of the dd stuns

i've never had any complaints about saving my priests mana - - ever - - nor have i ever had any complaints about stunning out the hasted dual-wielding pets whose charm breaks and starts raping the nec/enc/dru who charmed it. clerics should also do this, but god forbid a cleric ever does anything besides sit on their ass (ffs they wear plate and have DA and complain whenever they're hit, then gate out leaving everyone else behind the instant shit hits the fan)

never have i had any complaints about stunning and holding agro on a cleric mob (i.e. elemental harvester in hole) to keep him from casting ch on the mobs we're dealing with

the issue with draught of jiva is that its a 0 second stun - - the enemy mob will start casting right after the interrupt so you have to have a dd stun ready to knock out the next cast. the dd stuns you have some time to throw in a concussion, annul magic, or fast nuke during the stun duration (sunstrike is way too slow of a cast and too mana-intensive and needs to be used for special circumstances)

draught of ice and draught of jiva both cost 215mana and both have the same cast time - - draught of ice does 731 at lvl 60 and draught of jiva does 688 at lvl 60. for a 45dmg sacrifice you can stop a spell which will heavily damage a group member, or cause the aforementioned 10 minute slow - - - please explain to me how this isn't mana efficient

the way shaman mobs work (it seems none of you have ever even been in a dungeon with casters in it) is that they quit trying to cast slow after a while - they might attempt it once or twice. you are not delaying the slow for 5 seconds, you are stopping it from being cast altogether. when they get to about 30% hp they start to cast a heal - at which point you use draught of jiva to interrupt it, knock them down to 20% at which point they start to run because you have the mob snared already and your group deals the remaining damage with impunity (or are you going to waste mana DPSing an incapacitated mob when you already in a roundabout way dealt 20% of the damage to the mob)

AND AS WE HAVE DISCUSSED - - - wizards don't deal mass damage - - you run out of mana quickly if you really turn up the heat. you save mass dps for certain mobs, it is impossible to deal massive damage for sustained periods of time. this is why every scrub wizard posted up LFG at kc and seb never gets asked to group, and when you do get asked you just get harassed the whole time you're in the group about how little sustained dps you do.

as mentioned before, to play necro well you end up doing a bunch of small tasks constantly to support the group. its the same idea with a well played wiz. it is similar to an APM count in starcraft - - a higher quantity of spells being cast to assist your group is immeasurably more helpful than "just dps"

funny thing is - - - it costs 195 mana to cast a tishan's discord and a tishan's clash (130 and 65 mana, respectively), both of those deal 310 dmg and stop the spells of the caster mobs (and it also keeps the enemy from attacking, which over a couple hours of playing in a dungeon is thousands of saved damage against your party, which is a lot of saved mana for your priests). one draught of ice costs 215 mana and does 731dmg at lvl 60 (and doesn't stop a damn thing.) by doing tishan's clash, tishan's discord, draught of jiva, AND peppering in draught of ices during stun duration when necessary you are being far more helpful than the number that shows up (or doesn't show up) on the parse.

[Potus]

Necros are absolutely broken in Velious, don't play one if you want to raid. You will literally do nothing but mana feed because Verant was still in the mindset that Necros were overpowered and decided to punish them for a second consecutive expansion.

[kaos057]

wtf are you talking about? those are two completely different things and i never suggested they are the same.....

Ahhh.. So you are just suggesting that you don't read what the thread is actually about before posting. OP never asked about grouping.

[Tuljin]

i read what the thread is actually about and my first post was right to the point - then some friendly forumquesters had to come in and run their mouths when it seems as if they havent dinged past 50 . if people werent snarky assholes this thread would have been a little more succinct

anyone saying that their class isnt supposed to ever get hit is an idiot - - if you go out and do difficult stuff youre gonna get roughed up a little. if adds come into your camp and start beating on someone, you agro them and park them somewhere safe - - its eq 101. if your class has the ability to do something extremely useful and you're not doing it, youre not playing your class well.

the next time i see one of my nec or druid buddies in fear or hate getting plowed by their weaponized, hasted pet when the charm breaks im just gonna sit and watch them die instead of stunning and agroing, allowing them to recharm........smh

if you are doing hate or fear most of those regular caster mobs will be affected by stuns - - on zerg raids theres so much push and so many ppl plowing on mobs that theres no point in stunning, and if you cast sunstrike you have to cast it at 90% health for it to even land by the time the mob is dead because of long cast time.

if you are at 12 and under for your raid it becomes more essential to stop spells, especially the gating shamans and mages in hate (i also most of the time end up being the one snaring and stunning runners, again cause the dru/nec is busy with pet)

both zones have good pets for necromancers if you want to raid, though sky is way less fun for necs

[kaos057]

Ok well all of my posts were directed at the question asked by the OP. Raiding in velious. Velious raids are much different than planes raiding. You will see that the primary role of a wizard in a velious raid is to nuke... med.. nuke... med. Some dragons gate so of course anyone with an interrupt spell or ability will try to stop them but other than that there is really no need to interrupt spells.

[Breeziyo]

Damage over Time spells do not stack until Luclin.

http://everquest.allakhazam.com/hist...es-2002-2.html Source.

July 24, 2002
** Spell Stacking Changes **

We've made two changes to the way spells stack.

Damage Over Time (DoT) spells are spells that linger on the target
doing damage. Until today two different characters could not have the
same DoT spell on the same target. As long as one copy of the spell was
active any new version of the spell would not take hold. After today
the same DoT spell cast by different casters can affect the same target
at the same time. Also, if you cast a DoT spell on a target and you
already have that spell active on it, the spell will refresh. (Note: It
will not be possible to stack Lifeburn).

[Kender]

classic p99 forums - - morons keeping threads alive, intelligent posts killing them



outdoor only? i gave you a chance to redeem yourself earlier, but you just kept on going....(which was the plan all along)




please explain to me how a tishan's clash which only costs 65 mana stopping a slow spell which costs the melee player literally thousands of damage over the duration of the slow is an "lolwaste" - - i hear in velious wizards get a 5000dmg nuke that only costs 100 mana (it also saves the constant bitching of said melee player during the duration of the slow)

some of my best eq buddies are nec and druid, and in fact we've gone nec/wiz/dru as the anchor of groups w/o an enc or cleric in top dungeons tons of times and we've done way better than the classic "oh fucking shit the warrior pulled and is coming back to camp with 20% hp and the useless cleric has to CH omgzomgzomgz and the enc has to cast an aoemez by the skin of his teeth omgomg we're all gonna fucking die"

so please, keep the intelligent caster comments coming!!! (or go to RnF and continue to embarass yourselves there)

what are you smoking? the highest damage wiz nukes in velious are the banes. (giant and dragon) they each do 2000 for 450 mana, are unresistable, and cost 20pp to cast

their best general nuke does 1615 damage (resistable) for 450 mana

[Tuljin]

was a joke - - talking about how a 65 mana stun can stop a slow which costs thousands of damage over 10 minutes or w/e - might as well be a 5000dmg nuke for 100mana

not an "lolwaste"

[freez]

best dd stun spells in the game and the only interrupt nukes


classic p99 forums - - morons keeping threads alive, intelligent posts killing them



outdoor only? i gave you a chance to redeem yourself earlier, but you just kept on going....(which was the plan all along)




i hear in velious wizards get a 5000dmg nuke that only costs 100 mana (it also saves the constant bitching of said melee player during the duration of the slow)



Exactly. Other classes get stuns. You look stupid.


5k nukes... what is this kid smoking?

[freez]

best dd stun spells in the game and the only interrupt nukes



Lol... facepalm

[freez]

was a joke - - talking about how a 65 mana stun can stop a slow which costs thousands of damage over 10 minutes or w/e - might as well be a 5000dmg nuke for 100mana

not an "lolwaste"

PS anything that does thousands of damage in a fight that takes ten minutes is not a mob you will ever be able to touch with a stun. Good luck landing lures, those get resisted enough.

[freez]

http://ts2.mm.bing.net/th?id=H.4875188415368225&pid=1.7