Tumpy Tonic

[Rogean]

You can discuss the quest, but not bans. Bans are being handled via the Petition forum, and so far one person has been banned, for reasons more than just abusing the quest. The reasons are kept between the staff and that person, as any other ban would be, and I'd appreciate the community not coming to conclusions on what they may or may not think someone deserved, without having all the information in front of them.

[Goobles]

Do not do it imo.

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a74/RiddlN/issue.jpg

[Bannedfornoreason]

Its a shame that there are traps like this for some people who are not familiar with Classic content. I think it's a bit surprising and very sketchy that after several weeks of people using this quest only now is it brought to light that the quest is an exploit. In the past there was at least 1 thread where this was brought up and nothing was done about it. I think if the GM staff wants to keep the server going, they should not be so cruel to people who stumble upon misdemeanor bugs and those who don't know better. Did not one single GM see the massive never ending spam for half of the day that the dwarf was up and think to investigate? Very fishy

[Blink]

I brought it up in ooc multiple times and even talked to Aeolwind about it when I was looking for a way to fix my faction and he told me the exp was already nerfed to where they wanted it.

[Blink]

Everyone knew Sol A gnomes were boken xp and still leveled. If Nilbog is so into not deleveling/taking gear from people because of the time they put in doing it I dont see how this is any different.

[Rogean]

We're handling this on a case by case basis. People who only got a level or two out of it won't be penalized much or at all. People who exploited it to gain 10-50 levels will get penalized. This is something I'm handling, not nilbog, and past decisions they have made are not reflected here.

[iwillrapeyourserver]

If you guys banned tantalar over this kiss this bitch goodbye. One of the only GM's without short man complex that did nothing but help people and encourage the community to grow.

This quest was reported, gm's said in ooc at least twice that Tumpy quest worked and had been tuned to give the exp they thought was appropriate. If you are too dumb to check the 20 stack count on a quest item who knows what else you miss?

The thread was quickly squashed but I like Wenai's post about how you should "know what is right and wrong with classic" sorta like when your GM's opened those planes, then when the retards start talking about it in OOC and people ask questions they got closed.

That was communication breakdown though. Totally different right? No.

[Goobles]

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a74/RiddlN/QQ.jpg

[Rogean]

Tantalar's play char isn't banned, his GM Access is removed though.

[Blink]

Goobles get some new lame images, fuck man.

[ferris]

Well what does the quest involve?

[magic]

http://img6.imageshack.us/img6/522/1259044646596.gif

[Bubbles]

http://img6.imageshack.us/img6/522/1259044646596.gif

^^^

I couldn't have said it better myself.

The inmates have officially usurped full control of the asylum.

It's officially no longer worth anyone's time to feedback anymore.

This would have made me angry enough to 12 page rant a week ago, but I basically gave up hope/the ability to care a week ago, so cest la vie.

Bring on the tanks! Bonus points if you can guess which of the 5 objects in the picture is the fellow that has been deemed the "corrupt, exploiting GM who's been a bane to our server since day one and was taken down by necessary force!"

http://www.whatwhatwhat.com/travel/china_to_singapore/images/tiananmen_square_1989.jpg

[Jify]

I noticed in the previous thread that there was going to be a "check" of the logs of people buying Kiola Nuts in mass. I'd just like to remind you that there seems to be "two" uses for the nuts.

One involves the Trueshot Bow quest, which I'm sure a lot of rangers have attempted (thus buying many nuts in mass quantities). I did many turn in's at lvl 16ish and recieved about 1/4 of a blue. :)

The other involves pure exp. Not sure about the details, haven't touched it.

[Glitch]

"which of the 5 objects in the picture is the fellow that has been deemed the "corrupt, exploiting GM who's been a bane to our server since day one and was taken down by necessary force!"

The street light!!!
It's the street light!!

Maybe some people bought 1400 Kiola nuts because they wanted to be prepared for all of the Stein of Moggok runs they'd be doing. EXPloit imo

[Allizia]

I heard about it and turned in 600 (3 - 10 slot bags full) of these to test it out on Touch, and it wasn't all that (which may be attributed to the ogre/SK exp penalty). I did get max faction with merchants/qeynos guards however, which is the real prize for an ogre SK.

I could have spent half the money/time/effort and just paid someone to powerlevel me for more experience then the quest gave in the time it took to get the materials and make/turn in the items =P

I know we shouldn't discuss bans (It's already been brought up), but as far as Tantalar, he is a higher level hybrid and anyone that knows him will understand he is not an all out expert on classic eq (no offense Tantalar). It doesn't mean he hasn't done plenty for the community (He was the one doing rezzes for about 8 hours after the server changed hosts). Seems kind of baseless to ban someone who has dedicated over a year of his time to help the server over a questionable quest that I doubt he knew was over the top.

[Kaleadar]

simple fix,

recall EXP except for the 2 or 3 lvls...

remove quest from game...

I know. Its to much work

[Kaleadar]

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[Pimp1]

Its a shame that there are traps like this for some people who are not familiar with Classic content. I think it's a bit surprising and very sketchy that after several weeks of people using this quest only now is it brought to light that the quest is an exploit. In the past there was at least 1 thread where this was brought up and nothing was done about it. I think if the GM staff wants to keep the server going, they should not be so cruel to people who stumble upon misdemeanor bugs and those who don't know better. Did not one single GM see the massive never ending spam for half of the day that the dwarf was up and think to investigate? Very fishy

cmon!!! Don't play dumb, if someone only had to do this quest to get 1-50 in 1 full day thats just plain stupid. You have to be a retard to think the quest wasn't bugged, and its just a cop out if you say its only for faction. Its just funny that Tantalar was doing it. I saw him level at least 3 times in his 40s hahah.

[magic]

cmon!!! Don't play dumb, if someone only had to do this quest to get 1-50 in 1 full day thats just plain stupid. You have to be a retard to think the quest wasn't bugged, and its just a cop out if you say its only for faction. Its just funny that Tantalar was doing it. I saw him level at least 3 times in his 40s hahah.

46 - 44 = 2

You're fucking sick at math bro. Tutor me?

[Pimp1]

46 - 44 = 2

You're fucking sick at math bro. Tutor me?

Don't know what that mean, but ok. We should have kept this quest running and have everyone just level in Freeport. Have Tantalar provide people with that GM money

[IAMJOE]

As a player in the days when the Tumpy Tonic quest was on live, I have to say I'm having trouble understanding the idea that Tumpy Tonics quest on the "Classic" EMU server is a cheat.

The quest is in my opinion similar to Manastone and Jboots etc.

The case I am making here is not that the quest didn't give people unfair advantage in the early days of Everquest, anymore than I would argue that any of the overpowered items nerfed by sony over the first months of EQ give players unfair advantage over those who did not get them pre-nerf. In the early days of EQ, lots of people used Tumpy Tonics to level quickly, it was very common and lasted until the quest was nerfed. WHEN the quest was nerfed, there was no punishment for using the quest, any more than there was punishment or removal of Manastones from people's inventory.

There is a bit of confusion here for players who did not, I think, understand the dividing line between what the developers of this EMU server intended to be "Classic" and therefore still included despite Sony's (and the rest of the planet's) decision to nerf on live EQ servers and what the developers of this EMU server have decided is game breaking and should be removed (despite it's inclusion and eventual nerf on live servers).

Project1999 has been recognized for, among other things, being a place where players can engage in content as it existed before it was removed by Sony or Verant. Clearly, as a well remembered quest that was engaged in by thousands of players on every server, Tumpy Tonics is a quest "old schoolers" would look forward to. The fact that it was reverted back to it's former EXP gain indicates that someone along the line agreed.

Also, a point of confusion appears to be that the some developers did not know about Tumpy Tonics. Tumpy Tonics are very fondly remembered by large portions of the EQ community, and the quest is not a 'bug', but clearly a quest that existed on EQ Live (until being nerfed) in an identical form as it existed on this EMU server a few days ago:

"lol the 'bard' class button during creating would be broken, i bet. It would be nice to get a mana stone and a mask of deception though. Also to kill a boat would be fun. Ooo and the tumpy tonic quest would be cool."
Discussion of a EQ server minus nerfs:
http://74.55.118.12/showthread.php?t=1108&page=2

"People did the Tumpy Tonic quest...for xp....alot... "
Post entitled "Can you remember..." Enchanter Forum
http://www.therunes.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=40&t=7006

"Well, I guess I wont be getting my vambraces soon. They took Tumpy out, so getting a tonic is impossible. WOO!"
Discussion about how to obtain Tumpy Tonics from practitioners of the Brewing skill, Helps date the Nerf of Tumpy Tonic Quest experience.
http://eqclerics.org/forums/showthread.php?t=7513

"Btw, Tumpy Tonics wasn't a cheat, nor a bug.
The quest was supposed to give faction and xp, and it did.
However, Verant hadn't forseen the industrial scale that people would do the quest on."
Thread entitled "Old School"
http://ayonae.com/sitemap/old-school-t389.html

"I remember doing the Tumpy Tonic quest over and over again and getting experience like crazy."
http://www.allakhazam.com/forum.html?forum=1;mid=1197559829318049227

As you can see, the quest gave the correct amount of exp to reflect an accurate 1999 EQ environment.

And for this reason, the developers of Project1999 unwittingly set in motion, for lack of a better word, a "trap" for old school players.

They advertised a server where the "Classic" experience could be lived again. They offered a Pre-Nerf experience, and they set the Tumpy Tonic quest exp back to as it existed in classic EQ. True to form, the first things people raced for on this server were Pre-Nerf items and quests. Imagine everyone's surprise when Tumpy Tonics gave 3000+ exp! (The quest was nerfed from 3000+ to 5 exp) Their first thought was "I LOVE THIS SERVER!"

The assumption, because of the advertising, of old school players was that it was included on purpose, and not an exploit. Figuring the quest was set purposefully to pre-nerf status, I think most people assumed the developers would follow the time-line on Live servers, as they plan to do with other "classic" content, and nerf the quest when it was originally nerfed on live (or, after a few months like Manastone etc.)

You can see the confusion here in pointing fingers and throwing accusations about exploits, because I can't seem to find a list that separates and divides what truly broken and overpowered "Classic" content is allowed and what truly broken and overpowered "Classic" content is an exploit.

[yaaaflow]

Perhaps you didn't notice the part where the kiola nuts were incorrectly stackable, making it possible to carry like 3000 of them instead of the 80 possible on live EQ? Making the quest ridiculously broken to an extent it never was on live?

[IAMJOE]

Perhaps you didn't notice the part where the kiola nuts were incorrectly stackable, making it possible to carry like 3000 of them instead of the 80 possible on live EQ? Making the quest ridiculously broken to an extent it never was on live?

I understand that, but is that really the issue? If that is all anyone is complaining about and not the fact that the quest is giving pre-nerf exp then that seems perfectly fine to me.

I was under the impression that people were upset that the quest was giving so much exp.

Why would they nerf the exp of the quest and not just make the nuts non-stakable? That seems like a weird fix.

The rational part of my brain is telling me that the stacking issue isn't the primary issue. The stacking issue only made the quest more rapidly done, not more likely to be done often.

Or are you saying that everyone who has made a big deal about this being an exploit would be fine keeping the quest in and just making the nuts non-stackable? (and by extension anyone who did the quest a 'reasonable' number of times, say 50 trips to OOT or 80 x 50 = 4000 Tumpy Tonics shouldn't get beat by the nerf bat)

No, I think the stacking issue helped non-casting classes no doubt (the translocator is in BB so binding at Tumpy practically solves the stacking issue), but lets face it, who really plays non-casters anyway? (<---joke)

[yaaaflow]

Since it would take (just cribbing from your math) about 30 times as long to get the same experience with the nuts non stackable, yeah I'd say that would slow things down to a rate where people wouldn't see it as such a big deal.

[emubird]

Also, the lack of boats/travel delay in getting the kiola nuts amplified the server impact of this exploit.

Regarding culpability: everybody who did the quest in the classic era knew the nuts were not stackable. They also would have remembered the 30 to 40minute delays from island to dock, each way. Honest players who simply wanted to do the tumpy tonic quest 'as it was available in classic' would have reported the stacking kiola nuts immediately. Without the travel time from boats, this quest has been exploited in ways people couldn't have dreamed of in classic.

[Myrkskog]

The instant translocators combined with being bound at the dwarf in Freeport would make an 80 tonic run take like 10 minutes. 480 tonics an hour is still ridiculous experience, so this is definately about the amount of exp the tonics were giving, not the amount of tonics that could be done in a single run. Making the nuts unstackable wouldn't deter anyone from doing the quest from 1-50 as long as they had the money.

I understand that the Project 1999 crew has worked extremely hard to make this server awesome, and that Tumpy Tonics trivializes a lot of their efforts(lets face it, if any of us worked as hard as they did, we would see this quest as a slap in the face as well). But punishing people for running a quest that was a staple of Classic EQ seems more like a reaction to protect "their baby" than a objective look at the situation.

Should the quest experience be nerfed to nothing/removed? Yes, but it's hard to justify punishing the people who did it when it was legitimately available.

[Myrkskog]

Without the travel time from boats, this quest has been exploited in ways people couldn't have dreamed of in classic.

Were people doing the tonics supposed to sit and wait for an hour before each turn in to mimic how it was on live when the majority of the server supports instant transportation?

You can't have it both ways. Either everyone waits, or nobody waits. A person using the translocator to run nuts isn't exploiting any more than a person using the translocator to meet up with their group.

[Dabamf]

The nuts were stackable making you able to carry TWENTY times the amount. Of course that's an absolutely major bug.

[Bannedfornoreason]

So the people like me who were told the quest was amazing exp and perfect for leveling in a lame way but a legit way by those who played in classic should be punished because since we didn't play back then, we didn't know that Kiola nut was not stackable? That sounds insane to me...People are getting banned because they didn't know that kiola nut was not stackable. Are there some who knew it was not supposed to be stackable and did it anyway? Yeah obviously but it looks like it was assumed that every knew that. Its laughable to think that they did.

[cassaruby]

fair enough

but from this day forward let it be known if it's fishy, take responsibility and check first. gaining a whole level of nuts will now be the new standard of kinda fishy.

[Hasbinbad]

..but from this day forward let it be known if it's fishy, take responsibility and check first..

From this day forward?
Seems like we should all have had the same common sense 3 days ago that we have now..
Especially a supposed leader of the community.

Although it is never really excused, this behavior might be tolerated - even expected - in the player base, however it should not be tolerated in the GM population.

IMHO: Let Tantalar keep playing if he complies with the information mandate; may Bristlebane rest in peace.

[Wrei]

Look the people who are bashing the quest as exploit... have you ever done the quest? First of all it's the most annoying thing to do, handing in 1 water, 1 nut to npc, stacking up the tonics then handing in 1 tonic x 4 to npc etc..

Sounds easy right? Well try doing it for 99238923892 times clicking and clicking some more and clicking some more etc... It's almost as bad as EE or Jboots camping. It's not a SMART way to level at all, there's a bizillion more efficient way to get better xp for the amount of time spent.

Now i did the tonic hand in in my mid 20's for 3~4 lvl gains. Consider this, I did not start with the server opening (i.e i was part of the 2nd generation of players, and did not benefit from whatever you deem to call legit buggy exploit XP that allowed 5% of the population to hit 50 in a manner of weeks). The point is when you start from fresh, and your broke as a homeless guy trying to buy your spells (do marginal gear upgrade), you cannot afford to tonic grind. In fact it would be the most retarded way lvl up. The main reason i did it was it still gives really good faction on 4 different faction (which i'm now allied with).

Now from a practical point, I don't see how someone can level from 1 to 50. Never mind the fact they would go insane from all the clicking, I don't think it's feasible to do tonics beyond 29 or 30. The awesome XP you guys keep preaching about dries up really quick post 20, and slows to a crawl after 29~30.

I haven't calculated the cost but unless the person was filthy rich and dumb enough to grind that way the cost would be obscene here. For that kind of money it would be better to hire a bunch of 50's to PL you from 1 to 50 (and you'd still gain xp just as fast if not faster because of the 9293289428932 clicking you'd need to do).


So for the GM's, yes in hindsight I should have reported the oddity (the nut stacking), but considering i never intended to do any more then a few levels, i didn't even think twice about it. For the non twink toons, it's really not an exploit when we gotta pay our dues money wise, time wise. Not like the npc gives back the tonic where we can keep doing it for free... and yes faction DOES matter..

To the self righteous haters of anyone that has even looked at a kiola nut. Chill out, seriously, not like you guys never did anything even remotely sketchy (and i maintain tonic is totally legit), if you ever actually did the quest you'd soon realize unless you are suffering from OCD, you'd never stick it out to do more then a few lvls.

To the retards that abused the quest beyond lvl 30 even to 50. Seriously, jump off a window please... Talk about wasting plat and time like a scrub big time. It's because of the retarded few that this whole thing is being blown WAY out of proportion.

I hope we all can learn from this and just move on, it'd be a shame to categorize everyone who touched a kiola nut as a filthy cheater (in the same league as 3rd party add on users, and dupers. Should focus more on fixing game bugs and policing douchebags then trying to go on a witch hunt for tonic abusers :confused:

PS: Those were my 2 cents, can flame me all you want now.

[Bones]

Lucky for you the quest is still there and gives faction.

[Goobles]

Using quests to level = idiotic...

Way to gain your skill points!

[Harazzer]

At this point its just IB posturing against all common sense that this was a terrible atrocity to in some way legitimize themselves. Don't waste your time.

[emubird]

Unfortunately it seems, as time goes by, that this this true.

[Dabamf]

.

Waste money? Wait...plat has value at 50? Coulda fooled me, since I got 3k sitting in the bank with nothing to spend it on.

Shit I spent 1k easilly training up research skill.

[Torrinn]

Its a shame that there are traps like this for some people who are not familiar with Classic content. I think it's a bit surprising and very sketchy that after several weeks of people using this quest only now is it brought to light that the quest is an exploit. In the past there was at least 1 thread where this was brought up and nothing was done about it. I think if the GM staff wants to keep the server going, they should not be so cruel to people who stumble upon misdemeanor bugs and those who don't know better. Did not one single GM see the massive never ending spam for half of the day that the dwarf was up and think to investigate? Very fishy

It should be obvious to anyone from the smartest Erudite to the stupidest Ogre that this was an exploit. Using turn ins to level that quickly cannot be working as intended and anyone with half a brain should know this whether they are new to EQ or not. They should say to themselves "Hmmm I just gained 10 levels in 10 minutes, I wonder if this is legit?" and if they don't they deserve to be whacked hard with the banstick.

[Torrinn]

The instant translocators combined with being bound at the dwarf in Freeport would make an 80 tonic run take like 10 minutes. 480 tonics an hour is still ridiculous experience, so this is definately about the amount of exp the tonics were giving, not the amount of tonics that could be done in a single run. Making the nuts unstackable wouldn't deter anyone from doing the quest from 1-50 as long as they had the money.

I understand that the Project 1999 crew has worked extremely hard to make this server awesome, and that Tumpy Tonics trivializes a lot of their efforts(lets face it, if any of us worked as hard as they did, we would see this quest as a slap in the face as well). But punishing people for running a quest that was a staple of Classic EQ seems more like a reaction to protect "their baby" than a objective look at the situation.

Should the quest experience be nerfed to nothing/removed? Yes, but it's hard to justify punishing the people who did it when it was legitimately available.

That excuse is tantamount to telling the judge it was ok to steal the car because the owner left the doors unlocked and the keys in the ignition.

[magic]

It should be obvious to anyone from the smartest Erudite to the stupidest Ogre that this was an exploit. Using turn ins to level that quickly cannot be working as intended and anyone with half a brain should know this whether they are new to EQ or not. They should say to themselves "Hmmm I just gained 10 levels in 10 minutes, I wonder if this is legit?" and if they don't they deserve to be whacked hard with the banstick.

You're the worst kind of troll for the simple fact that you have no clue what you are talking about. Yes, Kiola Nuts should not of been stackable. That does not change the fact that a wizard or druid would be able to bind there, buy bags full of nuts, port near a town, make the tonics, bank, repeat. It was possible in classic to make 20 stacks of tonics to fill up 8 10-slot bags in a few hours. Those people would then sit on the docks in EFP or in the EC tunnel and auction WTS Stacks of Tumpy Tonics.

Sorry you didn't play classic. Use more big words in an attempt to make my post seem irrelevant.

[Torrinn]

You're the worst kind of troll for the simple fact that you have no clue what you are talking about. Yes, Kiola Nuts should not of been stackable. That does not change the fact that a wizard or druid would be able to bind there, buy bags full of nuts, port near a town, make the tonics, bank, repeat. It was possible in classic to make 20 stacks of tonics to fill up 8 10-slot bags in a few hours. Those people would then sit on the docks in EFP or in the EC tunnel and auction WTS Stacks of Tumpy Tonics.

Sorry you didn't play classic. Use more big words in an attempt to make my post seem irrelevant.

That may be so, but being able to carry 1600 of them at a time makes your point irrelevant as there is no need to buy the tonics from anybody so less money is required to do the quest. If you WERE around during Classic, you yourself should know that this was not working as intended due to the stacking issue and the translocators reducing travel time, so how can you possibly say it was OK?

And, ONLY a troll would try to defend this EXPLOIT as being legit. How many levels did YOU gain from it, BTW?

[magic]

Do you not realize the point? It was still possible to level off of in classic. I don't know how to be more straight-forward than that. I know a shaman that leveled a human monk from 1-50 in about a day, and a human SK from 1-40 immediately after. This was pre-kunark, vanilla everquest. We were both members of Eternal Wrath.

Obvious exploit is obvious.

Edit:

You just admitted to not playing classic. Your posts are now rendered inert.

[Dartagnan]

This argument would stand so long as the ability to obtain kiola nuts as non-stackable was working.

The point is that under the titanium client (from my understanding) you were able to stack these. So instead of having a max of 80 possible nuts, you could have 1600. So that's a ratio of 80:1600 or basically 1 trip back then is equivalent now to 20 trips.

Doing this quest 20 times faster is the exploit and should have been reported by people. There is no way that EQ back then would allow such a quest to be accelerated such as this and anyone coming up with the excuse that they did not know about the stackable issue should have at least reported this to the GMs to make sure that this was legit.

I mean seriously, items that we all are camping now (manastone, guise of the deceiver, etc.) were either nerfed or removed. What makes anyone honestly think that the ability to transport 1600 nuts to gain massive xp was legit. We need a little more honesty around this server and more people willing to help out in reporting bugs and correcting any errors in quests such as this one.

[Wrei]

This argument would stand so long as the ability to obtain kiola nuts as non-stackable was working.

The point is that under the titanium client (from my understanding) you were able to stack these. So instead of having a max of 80 possible nuts, you could have 1600. So that's a ratio of 80:1600 or basically 1 trip back then is equivalent now to 20 trips.

Doing this quest 20 times faster is the exploit and should have been reported by people. There is no way that EQ back then would allow such a quest to be accelerated such as this and anyone coming up with the excuse that they did not know about the stackable issue should have at least reported this to the GMs to make sure that this was legit.

I mean seriously, items that we all are camping now (manastone, guise of the deceiver, etc.) were either nerfed or removed. What makes anyone honestly think that the ability to transport 1600 nuts to gain massive xp was legit. We need a little more honesty around this server and more people willing to help out in reporting bugs and correcting any errors in quests such as this one.

I agree with everything your saying. I was in the wrong not to report the stacking issue. My only defense was that the quest imo trivializes in the high 20's, even with the stackable nuts the XP gain is so minimal at that point that I just cannot fathom someone crazy enough to try doing it post 30. So that's why I kinda just ignored it and moved on from it, but if people have infinite plat and the retarded patience to click 9 million times to somehow hit 50 doing ONLY tonics then yea i can see why it's being a big fuss.

Whirl was stupid, everyone benefited from it xp'ing, it got nerfed life goes on. Should be the same here nerf it and move on.

[magic]

I get what you're saying. The post I made before though outlined exactly how this quest was done in classic. Classes capable of porting would spend like 5-6 hours a day making 8 bags of tonics and then sell them for an insane amount of money. I know because I used to sell them. The quest was nerfed around the Kunark era in terms of the amount of exp it rewarded. It was still very, very, very possible to go from 1-50 in classic in a few days if you had enough money or items to trade people that wasted their time making Tonics.

I personally don't give a shit. Why do any of you care about people leveling? Why don't you care about people getting items from fear that are ALREADY GETTING REMOVED? Why don't you care about people having items that aren't EVER going to be obtainable for you? Honestly this all Tumpy Tonic crying seems like a diversion for the real problems on the server...

[Reiker]

Why would you even care about people obtaining items that are eventually being removed? If you didn't get the "limited time" items before they're gone, you didn't try hard enough, and hence you don't deserve them. Sounds harsh but, that's EverQuest.

Also, the "items" removed from Fear is the Cryosilk Robe. That's it. You're a magician. You know the Apothic Robe will drop in droves in Hate. You know that robe is better than Cryosilk. It's a status item. If you were a decent player (not) and put in countless hours to be on every single IB raid then you too may have had a chance at one. But now you don't, because you chose a different avenue.

You really think that one person having one robe that'll eventually be replaced in Hate is a bigger issue than leveling 1-50 in a day?

[jawtoe]

ah, it makes sense now. Everyone's mad at people who used this quest to level because people were able to get a lot of exp AND still have a life outside the game. They figure, I gave up my social existence to get level 50 and go on raids to get rare items before they're removed from the game, and if someone else isnt willing to give the same, they shouldnt be allowed to get these items.

am i right?

[Reiker]

Giving up your social life for phat lewtz is part of Teh Game (TM), mang.

[karsten]

I personally don't give a shit.

-->cuz i already got my druid to level 50 on tonics LOL<--

hehehehehehehe

[jawtoe]

I appreciate the attemt to make this all EQ classic style, and have everything be exactly the same. But guess what, it can't be. It isn't 1999, and many of the things in this game can't be reverted back to the original state. That being the case, I can still understand and appreciate the desire to make it like EQ classic as much as possible. My feelings on the game are that it was an entirely different game when it was first released than it was once Luclin came out. EQ was still EQ all the way through Velious.

The point I'm getting at is that, if the game can't be everything we remember it being, why do this tattered version of it? There are things about Classic that were improved upon, and didn't change the game into the disgusting thing that it became after Luclin. Why not make this game true to classic content, but with upgrades? Some patches didn't make characters stronger, but just took out some of the monotony. Not everything about Classic was good, even though it is a good game. Why bring back the problems? Why not do it better than the original?

I know I've just opened the door to a bunch of pea-brains to yell at me and totally miss my point. Bring it on, it's entertaining. Just try to make some good points in the process, or you're just farting out your mouth... or I guess out of your fingers in this case.

[Dartagnan]

I think the issue is the time involved rather than the quest itself. It's 20 times faster. Just as an example of what was said, if it took 2 days (48 hours), then it would only take 2.4 hours here. That's just an example, but I think the point is established. It's just way too fast.

As to the item issue, it is complicated in my opinion. I don't think the classic everquest experience can be fully implemented due to the fact that people know what they are doing. You just cannot mimic ignorance like many of us faced when we first logged into EQ.

Lots of people have manastones and guises. It has become a standard for anyone who is level 50 to have these items. Yes, certain items such as the cryosilk robe will not drop anymore since it dropped once. How else is the dev team suppose to mimic this?

I think we need to come to the fact that while this server exhibits aspects of classic EverQuest, it is not going to be perfectly aligned with every aspect that happened.

I think we need to understand that this server is still tweaking many things. We need to except this or wait until the devs are finished making it as perfect as possible. I don't know about you, but I would rather play now and accept the fact that there are going to be some deviations from the classic experience as a result.

I started Dartagnan I believe 5 days after the server opened. I was able to level him strictly from 1-50 grouping with people. It was possible for anyone to do so (especially for those classes that could lvl a lot faster than a cleric could). I have been able to take part in a lot of the first server kills and have witnessed some of the bugs that could happen, such as the Mayong Mistmoore script problem.

To my knowledge, only the cryosilk robe will not drop anymore and am not aware of other items not dropping anymore as of this time, but I could be wrong. I don't know, but it is a hard decision to make as to how you make this timeline go. I think the devs are doing the best job they can. To me, it has always been about the experience rather than what I could obtain first.

It is possible to have the classic everquest experience right now and I hope people look to that as their main means of satisfaction.

[jawtoe]

Here's an example of something that could be improved and be made to reflect Classic:
Keep pets through zone lines, but consume the regeants used to summon the pet each time one zones.
There's absolutely nothing fun about trying to summon a strong pet and then getting trained and having to summon it again. I've spent literally 20 tries getting my strongest pet summoned some times. It's things like this that I don't care for, even on a classic server.

[Dartagnan]

I think you're missing the point about the reason why EQ had pets of various levels. To be able to summon a strong pet and keep it as you move across the zone would negate the fact that a pet caster would need to spend the time to get their best pet possible.

I can understand that some things should just be fixed because they were headaches, but I believe the pet issue was an integral part of how they visioned pet classes would function.

Otherwise there would be no need for fluctuation in pet levels.

[jawtoe]

I think you're missing the point about the reason why EQ had pets of various levels. To be able to summon a strong pet and keep it as you move across the zone would negate the fact that a pet caster would need to spend the time to get their best pet possible.

I can understand that some things should just be fixed because they were headaches, but I believe the pet issue was an integral part of how they visioned pet classes would function.

Otherwise there would be no need for fluctuation in pet levels.

Sure there would be. You'd still have to get that first good pet. And it would die when you died. It would die like any other temporary item after you camp for more than 20 minutes or whatever it is.
To keep the pets through zones would just save time in some cases.
I'd even be willing to have pets consume regeants over time, like 1 malachite for a mage pet for every couple hours or something.

It's just the summoning, reclaiming, summoning, reclaiming, medding, repeat indefinately depending on how the server throws luck at you that day, is kinda lame. It's one of those things that doesn't contribute to EQ Classic's greatness. IMO. You can disagree with me of course, and it doesn't offend me.

Here's an example of why this pet system sucks:
I got a good pet, luckily, on like my 2nd try. While waiting for my friend to join me I decided to kill a few things. Something ran and I got a couple adds - had to zone. I made it just fine, and then my friend showed up and we grouped. Now I went to go and summon another pet. I tried 17 times (not exaggerating) and jokingly said: watch someone train vox to the zone and kill us both right after i finally get a good fricken pet. On the 18th pet, more than 20 minutes later, I got a good pet. I was happy, for a moment. Next thing I know, someone (not naming names) pulled ice giants passed me and my friend (we were in the first big clearing in permafrost, where you can either go to the alchemist area or to the preacher). My friend was standing up before they passed, lying down after they had passed. They didn't even seem to stop to attack. Anyway, a few moments later (I stuck around because I had just gotten a good pet and didn't want to go through all the summoning again) the giants returned (I guess whoever pulled them to the zone zoned) and finished me off before I could even react and beging casting gate. I couldn't believe that something so close to what I had jokingly predicted actually happened, and it sucked.

Anyway, that whole long story just to give you an example of why this pet system is BS. You shouldn't have to do all that summoning more than once if you don't die in between.

Games are all about balance, and there are many factors to balance if you want to make a good game. EQ is good even with this shitty aspects, but it could be better. That's all I'm saying I guess. If you want to encourage people to live unhealthly, antisocial, heart-attack prone lifestyles, then continue to reward the players that spend countless hours logged in at a time. If you want to make EQ a potentially healthy piece of a balanced human being's life, then make it possible for them to play the game effectively without investing entire days to it. Leveling with this tonic quest (which I hadn't even heard about before coming upon this thread) might not be so bad if you consider this balance of real life and the game in each person's life.

[Bannedfornoreason]

Allright now that most of the flame throwing is actually done and there seems to be some logical discussion i'm going to really settle things here...

So after all this bitching we have finally agreed that the only thing wrong about this quest was that Kiola nuts were stacking? What if you started around SOL era and had absolutely no clue that it was not supposed to be stackable? Well then, I guess you're screwed! har har har :mad:

Here's the real conversation stopper though... Just be prepared to read

Whats to stop 10 people (or more) from helping out 1 single dude get level 50 extremely fast? IIRC hand made backpack is a 10 slot. 10x8=80... that means each person could make about 80 tonics. Do you know how long it takes to make 80 tonics? If you did the quest you'd know that it would take a long time to make 80 tonics. Here's what I would do if nuts were NOT stackable and the guild was trying to level someone fast.

*Note* this would easier and faster exp because the guy who is getting leveled wouldn't have to make any tonics and instead would just be given them

Step 1 - 10 people go get 76 nuts + 4 stacks of water flask (80 slots filled).

Step 2 - They make Tumpy Tonics 10x faster than 1 person could

Step 3 - They give all of their tonics to the guy who they are trying to level up. (who stands in the bar waiting for the dwarf)

Step 4 - repeat as many times as you want


At a trivial combine rate, I heard it took about an hour to make 8 backpacks full of tumpy tonics (normal 8 slot backpacks that is). I dont know if this is accurate but it certainly takes a long time to make them. You can only hit combine so fast. It actually doesn't let you hit combine again after a certain time has elapsed.

This would mean that if 10 people each made 76 tonics and tonics that were stackable. then that would mean that you could make 76 tonics in about 3 minutes give or take. This means that you could be making approximately 760 tonics in 3 minutes and have them all in the guys hands in under 5 minutes. Turning them in 4 at a time unstacked takes time too... meanwhile people can be making you more tonics and just feeding them into your inventory...this is a total no brainer...

If a guild decided that 10 people would be making tumpy tonics they WOULD be able to make tonics just as fast if not MUCH faster than 1 guy doing it the way people did on this server. And lets say that 10 wasn't enough to equalize 1 person doing it. Well then, make 20 people take 30 minutes out of their day and in a few days you have any class to level 50 for the guild effortlessly...

Was exp incorrect? That's not even a debatable topic because you can't blame someone for getting the incorrect amount of exp. It certainly was not mind blowing good. Not like you are getting a blue per hand in...

So knowing what I know now about nuts NOT being stackable in classic I can say that the quest was overpowered if you are one person trying to just level up fast using this quest. I didn't know nuts were not stackable. I didn't start till around SoL...Jify handed in Greater lightstones and went from like level 12-20 unknowingly leveling up very fast and what did they do to him? They took away some of his exp. Fair enough. No need to perma ban him from all things EQ or even yell at him on the forum. He didn't know better so the problem was solved the right way.

So after reading what I just typed up, please remind me, why exactly are they banning selective people over this quest? Because people didn't know that kiola nuts were not stackable? That's insane... and I just explained how you could still easily get 1-50 in a day with assistance. If you still don't think people could get 1-50 very quickly with guild assistance you are just wrong

If people say that it was too OP in classic to come onto this server then ok... thats an argument that I have been making for a long time but the Dev staff absolutely insisted that things that were in the game stay in the game...
So meanwhile, enchanters are charming FGs and planar mobs for minutes at a time. Enchanters were whirling 12 seconds all the time every time that it landed, mages were soloing content that full groups of melee couldnt dream of touching, and melee were absolutely wothless... unable to take damage, deal damage, get aggro, or hold aggro... but that's how they wanted it to be, so thats how it is. So personally, if you are going to have classic charm in the game, then you should have classic Tumpy Tonic int he game - its only fair.

[Dartagnan]

I think the point is that in a position of trust and power, why didn't you at least look into this. Getting xp this fast should have raised a flag regardless of what era you came into EQ and should have been looked into.

[Zarniwooop]

They posted and said, you have until friday to come forward.

Did you come forward before then?

[Bannedfornoreason]

It seemed legit, everyone told me it was legit. Nobody suggested otherwise...That's why I didn't think anything of it. Shouldn't enchanters have asked if Whirl was legit (It wasnt) why aren't enchanters punished for that?

Punishments on this server are always hand picked...some banned for doing a quest, others allowed to MQ... its like...I don't like this guy! BURN! I don't think that's how issues should be resolved at all

[Dartagnan]

When you say "everyone" does that include the other GMs? I'm sorry but if I was in your position and I saw how fast people were leveling...that would make me want to at least discuss it with my team.

Your argument is flawed concerning enchanters whirl til you hurl because it was a known issue. Nobody apparantely even reported about this quest this at all. Again, I don't care how long one has played EQ for. Being able to lvl that fast due to a quest should have gotten people thinking and posting a possible bug.

Anyone who did this quest on live and knew about it would absolutely KNOW that it was being done faster on this server. They should have reported it and in my opinion exploited it.

[Zarniwooop]

It seemed legit, everyone told me it was legit. Nobody suggested otherwise...That's why I didn't think anything of it. Shouldn't enchanters have asked if Whirl was legit (It wasnt) why aren't enchanters punished for that?

Punishments on this server are always hand picked...some banned for doing a quest, others allowed to MQ... its like...I don't like this guy! BURN! I don't think that's how issues should be resolved at all

Give me a break. If you have to ask if something is an exploit, you already know the answer.

[Penoy]

It seemed legit, everyone told me it was legit. Nobody suggested otherwise...That's why I didn't think anything of it. Shouldn't enchanters have asked if Whirl was legit (It wasnt) why aren't enchanters punished for that?

Punishments on this server are always hand picked...some banned for doing a quest, others allowed to MQ... its like...I don't like this guy! BURN! I don't think that's how issues should be resolved at all

It seemed legit??? As a GM you honestly think if someone gets a char to 50 and another to 30+ within 2-3 days im not sure how long exactly,thats legit? Now i have no problems with anyone associated to this quest, nor is this a flame, as i am guilty of trying this quest and it was obviously retardedly easy to level.(i tried it for 3 yellows -=\)Do you realize if this was allowed it would fuck up the natural order of the game, why would anyone want to grind out level 20+ if they could just do this quest? I could see at least 1/2 the server sitting in East Freeport doing this to 50 and everyone having at least 4 level 50s in every class.

[Bannedfornoreason]

Since my post all I have seen is whining and complaining and zero fact to back up any argument. All you guys are saying is what you think I should have done. If that's how it was in classic minus the kiola nut stacking, are you saying you wouldn't want the quest in the server? Well that's your opinion isn't it?

[Allizia]

I PLed a rogue to 22 in under 2 hours using a druid, for free.

[Penoy]

I PLed a rogue to 22 in under 2 hours using a druid, for free.

really?... exageration!!!!!, but when it comes down to the hell levels and 29+ it gets really rough to PL

[Bannedfornoreason]

It seemed legit??? As a GM you honestly think if someone gets a char to 50 and another to 30+ within 2-3 days im not sure how long exactly,thats legit? Now i have no problems with anyone associated to this quest, nor is this a flame, as i am guilty of trying this quest and it was obviously retardedly easy to level.(i tried it for 3 yellows -=\)Do you realize if this was allowed it would fuck up the natural order of the game, why would anyone want to grind out level 20+ if they could just do this quest? I could see at least 1/2 the server sitting in East Freeport doing this to 50 and everyone having at least 4 level 50s in every class.

So if Xzerion (as a GM) reports Whirl Till You Hurl, but continues to use it for 2 months after reporting it how is it any different than what I did? If I had reported it and continued to use it then nothing would be done to me? That's like saying its OK to report murdering someone and then go on a killing spree

[Penoy]

So if Xzerion (as a GM) reports Whirl Till You Hurl, but continues to use it for 2 months after reporting it how is it any different than what I did? If I had reported it and continued to use it then nothing would be done to me? That's like saying its OK to report murdering someone and then go on a killing spree

Theres a reason you were banned

[Hasbinbad]

Theres a reason you were banned

Quit spreading lies Pen OY, we all know that Tantalar is a totally pristine player that consistently thinks of others to the exclusion of himself. This is all a conspiracy brought on by the evil GM-Controlled empire of Inglourious Basterds infantry, engineered to set in motion the events that will lead to the destruction of the server they spent the last year creating! The martyrdom of Tantalar is but the first of the seven foretold signs of The Prophecy Of Kiola. Next, Inglourious Basterds will break into fear within a couple days of it's re-opening, which will be proof that they are blessed by the favoritism of the GM's and obviously can do stuff that nobody else can do, ever. It's all so logical, I don't know how you people don't see it..

[Bannedfornoreason]

Well then in that case im going to use the neriak portals

And I'm going to tell all the jewelers I know to start making the ring that you can resell to a merchant for more than it costs to make it. Among other thing... since they have after all, been reported

[Hasbinbad]

Well then in that case im going to use the neriak portals

And I'm going to tell all the jewelers I know to start making the ring that you can resell to a merchant for more than it costs to make it. Among other thing... since they have after all, been reported

http://www.myteespot.com/images/Images_d/d_7208.jpg

[Bigcountry23]

Well then in that case im going to use the neriak portals

And I'm going to tell all the jewelers I know to start making the ring that you can resell to a merchant for more than it costs to make it. Among other thing... since they have after all, been reported

How is that an exploit. Ever been to Jarred? You think the gold and jewels in the rings cost as much as they charge? :P

[Harazzer]

Quit spreading lies Pen OY, we all know that Tantalar is a totally pristine player that consistently thinks of others to the exclusion of himself. This is all a conspiracy brought on by the evil GM-Controlled empire of Inglourious Basterds infantry, engineered to set in motion the events that will lead to the destruction of the server they spent the last year creating! The martyrdom of Tantalar is but the first of the seven foretold signs of The Prophecy Of Kiola. Next, Inglourious Basterds will break into fear within a couple days of it's re-opening, which will be proof that they are blessed by the favoritism of the GM's and obviously can do stuff that nobody else can do, ever. It's all so logical, I don't know how you people don't see it..

If anything is funny in this thread its how IB is just piling the entire bulk of this bullshit onto Tantalar. Like he wrote the quest then abused to to level 10 characters from 1 to 50 in 3 minutes.

Some facts:

-Tantalar used it for 2 levels? i think? wow.
-It was reported (i dont know since I was taking a break) that literally dozens of people were standing at the NPC to turn them in over the weeks prior to the incident coming to light.

For some reason those 2 things equate to TANTALAR: TUMPY TONIC MASTERMIND! What this really is, sadly, is IB's opportunity to discredit a rival GM, aka not one of their pet guild GM's meanwhile exonerating themselves since this is the one exploit out of 200 or so that they aren't actually guilty of abusing.

Also an FYI: you might not want to have Reiker try to talk shit on your behalf in the name of equity and fairness when he was already banned for using macroquest, admitted later that he used it, and theres about a 97.9% chance he has it running right now.

FYI #2: Don't have Penoy argue for or against anything at any time with anyone since he is missing numerous chromosomes.

[Goobles]

FYI #2: Don't have Penoy argue for or against anything at any time with anyone since he is missing numerous chromosomes.

Cuz they died on your mom's face last night?

[EliteJackson]

Funny, I wondered why some NPC kept saying "Here's your tumpy tonic, don't drink it too fast" or some such thing the other day when I was running around the dwarf city.

All the rest of the drama is amusing and all, but to me the real mystery has been solved. For what it's worth this quest is obviously still being done in mass quantities (as of Saturday night, at least). I must have seen that chat message twenty times just running past to the bank.

[messiah_b]

So meanwhile, enchanters are charming FGs and planar mobs for minutes at a time. Enchanters were whirling 12 seconds all the time every time that it landed, mages were soloing content that full groups of melee couldnt dream of touching, and melee were absolutely wothless... unable to take damage, deal damage, get aggro, or hold aggro... but that's how they wanted it to be, so thats how it is. So personally, if you are going to have classic charm in the game, then you should have classic Tumpy Tonic int he game - its only fair.

This owns so hard.

[Torrinn]

Since my post all I have seen is whining and complaining and zero fact to back up any argument. All you guys are saying is what you think I should have done. If that's how it was in classic minus the kiola nut stacking, are you saying you wouldn't want the quest in the server? Well that's your opinion isn't it?

I don't think anyone wants it removed completely, just the exploitable bit. The quest did serve a purpose back then it just wasn't meant to max your level so quickly. If you want to keep doing it without stackable kiola nuts, then go for it, if you think it's worth the extra time it's going to take.

At then end of the day, though, this is Rogeans sandbox and he has the right to decide who plays in it and who does not and to make the rules that make that determination. I don't care anything about corrupt GMs. We had corrupt GMs on the Zek servers on live. We dealt with it. If the devs on this server want to have their family and friends on and give them special favors, that is their right. They pay the bills, they write the code, they make the server available for us to play on for free. Nobody has the right to attack them for not getting their way here. The jerk who is doing the DDOS attacks needs to learn that, too, assuming you and he are not one and the same. Neither he nor you speak for the rest of us. A lot of us would rather see the server go down for good than for spoiled little babies like you to get whatever you want because you threaten them. If you don't like how things are here then play somewhere else or put up your own server. Then you'll see just how much time and money you have to put into it to keep it running. Leave the rest of us out of your personal war against the devs. We had nothing to do with it.

[nilbog]

At then end of the day, though, this is Rogeans sandbox and he has the right to decide who plays in it and who does not and to make the rules that make that determination.

Actually, it's my sandbox. Rogean, as server admin, does a great job at making sure the server is up and running its best. He is also a GM and can decide if you play here or not, with full authority.

Before and/or if he gets any flak because of false information, he had no part in writing the rules or the Tumpy Tonic quest. He is trying to help clean up the mess associated with it, though.

Expect to hear more about the Tumpy Tonics soon and remember that particular bans or punishments will not be publicly discussed. If you have a grievance, take it to the petitions forum.

[stormlord]

cmon!!! Don't play dumb, if someone only had to do this quest to get 1-50 in 1 full day thats just plain stupid. You have to be a retard to think the quest wasn't bugged, and its just a cop out if you say its only for faction. Its just funny that Tantalar was doing it. I saw him level at least 3 times in his 40s hahah.

A riddle:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bby8FFN8C_Y

[Clayton]

Personally I'd like to see all the characters who abused the Trumpy Tonic quest revert back to their original level before they started exploiting it. They can keep all their equipment and skills they have earned at level 50 but everyone should have to go through the process of leveling up a true level 50.

[Ronas]

You guy are so fucken boring i would need to bring old skool shit back up

This quest i guess still pausiable for soloing, but with all the plvling services out there. This would point towards more of a exp + faction gaining. Here a thought. If you are a caster, make a corpse in city where you hand in the quest, then goto OOT and bound yourself. Once thats done, would need a cleric/pally friend to rez up corpse once you have bought your coco nutz.

Wondering tho, did they only nerf the stackable nuts or xp gain from the quest as well. I recall in live people still did this to hell even with non stackable nuts.

[Icecometus]

Both

[RKromwell]

Hummmm...isn't there a quest or two related to this? Are the nuts used for anything else? If not, just make them lore.

[RKromwell]

Whats the hurry?

[Ronas]

Well there is a very sweet way where you spawn the NPC over and over to get xp off. But wont go into details or they nerf it as well. Pump 50 in 1/5 the time.

In regards to the tonics, theres afew quest that work off this. But not a way to lvl up. But would be sweet if it was back to normal again, i mean not the stackable part but the quest giving another xp to be worth doing kind of. Since now that the boats are half fixed, can the GM please switch it back. I wanna see those WTS 1000 Tumpy Tonics in EC for faction

[RKromwell]

Too tired now, will work on that in the morning.

[RKromwell]

Ummmm...no. My wife might not like that too much.

[RKromwell]

Naaa, I've gone 39 years without being anyone's 'gf'. Not gonna start now.

[Bubbles]

man RnFs used to be so much better back in the day. A+ bump.

[Sigmastorm]

Phew, my dupe bug still works.

Good times.

[Braveguard]

Why do I never find out about these things until they are nerfed?!

Bring back the zone-in bug for NK... I'm sick of running that zone!

[Seaweedpimp]

OH GOD LET FOURTHMEAL KNOW THE SECRETS OF EVERQUET

what do you mean >!>!?!?!

[hedbonker]

http://www.freewebs.com/cortlesteeze/pix/ThreadNecro.jpg

[Tazu]

http://www.freewebs.com/cortlesteeze/pix/ThreadNecro.jpg

Funny, when I first started playing this again the immediate thing I thought of was good ole tumpy tonic. But it appears they nerfed it like in the old days. It was pretty comical though, watching people level up with a fishing pole in hand waiting for the boat and Tumpy to come along.

[quido]

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