lvl 60 barb+barbarian Spiritist Hammer+Epic vs just plain epic

[spoils]

So a buddy of mine and I were in debate about ogre shammies vs barb shammies...

we know the obvious pros of an ogre shammy,

But I was wondering about a barb with epic click, torpor, BSH...

Now going one mob at a time with the BSH could potentially be a pretty cool combo no? Even against casters?

Or is ogre shammy just so damn OP that stun immunity and just epic rotting 4+ mobs at a time while rooting just that much more efficient? Seems kinda boring to me...

Methinks it'd be more fun and nearly as efficient to tank/spank as a barb opening with root, slow, epic click, then tank/spank with BSH

or should i stfu and just concede to ogre dominance?


lastly fuck iksar/troll cause they ugly. :p

[Tecmos Deception]

This is kinda an apples vs. oranges (and silly) thread, imo.

Why would a level 60 shaman be root-rotting 4+ mobs at once? What does stun immunity have to do with whether root-rotting is more efficient than swinging a BSH? If you think meleeing would be fun, then just go melee something.

The hammer is nice I'm sure for times when you can use it. Like, say you're soloing some tough named mob so it is hard to keep him rooted/he casts/he summons. Sure, it's nice to be able to swing your hammer inbetween epic clicks/jbb clicks/spellcasts for some extra free damage. But I really doubt that it is nice enough in and of itself that you would be opting to melee stuff that you don't have to be in melee with, or that it will make or break you compared to being one of the other shaman races.

[spoils]

good point...perhaps it's cause i'm coming from a farming perspective and perhaps my bud is talking from a lvling perspective.

Let's say for argumentsake for farming...which would be faster to kill? I'm assuming that as the shammy i'm not trying to slaughter many mobs, but just keep a camp clear.

[Ele]

Why would you be epic rotting 4+ mobs at once when you're already 60 though?

dat seafury

http://i.imgur.com/W4sRvHa.png

[spoils]

dat seafury

http://i.imgur.com/W4sRvHa.png

dat krupz farmin yo!

[pasi]

If you're talking about absolute topend, Smoldering Cudgel (VP) should outdps BSH in melee combat while also giving better stats and allowing for a shield.

[spoils]

mmm that would be sweet to have but i guess i'm talking about the average shaman that can gear themselves without poopsocking for thousands of hours...

[koros]

If you're talking about absolute topend, Smoldering Cudgel (VP) should outdps BSH in melee combat while also giving better stats and allowing for a shield.

Not quite, but that's because the Barb hammer procs at 164% of the SC.

[pasi]

I don't think that's been the case since the 2011 patch that gutted BoneThunder Staff.

AFAIK, Items like BSH and BT Staff gained their procmods after our era.

Anyhow, I think BSH would proc more than Cudgel due to the fact that you're weaving swings inbetween casts. So, higher delay with equal PPM will have slightly more procs, but Blaze is more damage than Winter's Roar and should offset that.

[pasi]

Yeah, just so we're clear:

Posted by Kakhisha in the Shadowknight´s forum

The thread:

http://www.shadowknight.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=19192

The post:

http://www.shadowknight.org/forums/showthread.php?threadid=19192&perpage=15&pagenumber=3


Hi. I have been trying to find a way to determine relative proc rates of weapons using the data collected by item collectors. Lucy doesn't show most of the information that it doesn't know the purpose of, but eqemu's database has everything. I have downloaded it, and by looking at cleric weapons and other things, I have found a field that seems to be related to proc rate.

The field is called unknown070 by the eqemu database. It does not appear to be collected by Lucy/Alla. There are only 38 items in the game that have a non-zero value for this field. Here is what I found...



code:--------------------------------------------------------------------------------select id, Name, unknown070, nodrop from items where unknown070 != 0 order by unknown070;

+-------+---------------------------------+------------+--------+
| id | Name | unknown070 | nodrop |
+-------+---------------------------------+------------+--------+
| 28849 | Cudgel of Cowardly Death | -50 | 0 |
| 28908 | Dark Mace of Thought | -20 | 0 |
| 28917 | Dagger of Thought | -20 | 0 |
| 22998 | Ethereal Destroyer | -15 | 0 |
| 8899 | Snowchipper | -10 | 255 |
| 8903 | Spiked Velium Mallet | -10 | 255 |
| 7906 | Pebble Crusher | 1 | 0 |
| 8430 | Bloody Stone Dagger | 2 | 255 |
| 52071 | Tarantella | 2 | 0 |
| 8495 | Claw of the Savage Spirit | 3 | 0 |
| 26566 | Ishinaear Xiall | 3 | 0 |
| 26585 | Acrylia Handled Broadsword | 3 | 0 |
| 7399 | Soulbane | 4 | 255 |
| 8095 | Partisan of Stampede | 4 | 0 |
| 8102 | Mithril Knuckles | 4 | 255 |
| 19810 | Fireclaw Talons | 5 | 255 |
| 26587 | The Sword of Ssraeshza | 5 | 0 |
| 8916 | Silver Blade of Thunder | 10 | 255 |
| 9264 | Fiercewind | 10 | 255 |
| 24587 | Ivory Hilted Cleaver | 10 | 0 |
| 22879 | Obsidian Scimitar of War | 25 | 0 |
| 26599 | Caen's Bo Staff of Fury | 25 | 0 |
| 22999 | Darkblade of the Warlord | 30 | 0 |
| 24780 | Greatstaff of the Four Winds | 30 | 0 |
| 24790 | Corpsegrinder | 30 | 255 |
| 26738 | Fiery Staff of Zha | 50 | 0 |
| 28855 | Bloodfrenzy | 55 | 0 |
| 7822 | Blasphemous Blade of the Exiled | 65 | 0 |
| 22946 | Kelp Hilted Mace | 70 | 0 |
| 3820 | Barbed Fishing Net | 100 | 0 |
| 21878 | Pile Driver | 100 | 255 |
| 24793 | Greatstaff of Power | 180 | 0 |
| 5800 | Hammer of Judgment | 250 | 0 |
| 15996 | Hammer of Divinity | 325 | 0 |
| 5798 | Hammer of Souls | 450 | 0 |
| 22898 | Withering Staff of Agony | 530 | 0 |
| 22907 | Furious Hammer of Zek | 530 | 0 |
| 29365 | Hammer of Damnation | 530 | 0 |
+-------+---------------------------------+------------+--------+
38 rows in set (0.36 sec)--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

In other words, in 2004 - those 38 items were the only weapons that had any sort of procmods. BSH should not have a procmod of 164% until 2006 or so.

[Danth]

Barbarian Shamans are for people who want to invest less time in their characters (lower experience penalty) or highly value the arguably better default factions, or who simply prefer the way they look. At level 60 they're the worst of the four Shaman races in terms of combat effectiveness. Spiritist's Hammer doesn't change this. It's awfully nice during the leveling phase but I wouldn't make a Barbarian solely for that reason. Consider it more of a perk if you were going to pick Barbarian anyway.

Ogres are not stun immune; this is a common misconception. They're immune to bashes from the frontal arc. Non-frontal bashes and magical stuns hit them the same as anyone else. It's still a strong racial ability but does have limits a player should be aware of.

Danth

[fishingme]

I'd reroll troll or ogre, ogre because they look kind of cool at 60 with full gear, troll for the regen. Can't say I ever would like to a shaman iksar, they just arent "beefy" looking enough to me. However Iksar necro is fanfrakkingtastic.

[koros]

Interesting Pasi, now I'm curious why they added the proc mod to BSH at all. The claim about the bonethunder staff I heard was that the damage got reduced 4x so they raised proc rates to compensate. That is not the case with winter's roar however.

[papercolor]

The barb hammer is great from 30 to 40 and thats about it. Once your 40+ you can start hunting mobs that hurt. Once fighting these mobs would you rather.....

Mele - hoping for a proc and losing health cuz the mob is doubling you for 100...
Root - 30mana and gain health due to regen, cana, dot, JBB

Also if your 40+ with a Barbarian Spirit Hammer I would sell it and buy a JBB.

[spoils]

The barb hammer is great from 30 to 40 and thats about it. Once your 40+ you can start hunting mobs that hurt. Once fighting these mobs would you rather.....

Mele - hoping for a proc and losing health cuz the mob is doubling you for 100...
Root - 30mana and gain health due to regen, cana, dot, JBB

Also if your 40+ with a Barbarian Spirit Hammer I would sell it and buy a JBB.

No offense but very few 55+ shammies use jbb...

I'm talking about a lvl 60 shaman with torpor trying to farm dungeons...

Methinks a barb shaman can really shine with bsh

If we're talking just grinding then any race with epic and root can just rot stuff down...
I'm just saying that barb shammies might be better than the consensus that ogre>all

[nilbog]

To be clear:

There should be no weapon with a procmod correct? There are very few that currently exist in game. Will change the mod if this should be the case.

select count(*) from items where procrate > '0' and itemtype <> '19'

95Frostwrath,Reforged Sword of Truth,Blade of Frozen Steel,Barbed Fishing Net,Gleaming Shai`din Naginata,Hammer of Souls,Hammer of Judgment,Staff of Writhing,Wakizashi of the Frozen Skies,Claw of the Grimling Slayer,Short Sword of the Grimling Slayer,Great Sword of the Grimling Slayer,Hammer of the Grimling Slayer,Staff of the Grimling Slayer,Dirk of the Grimling Slayer,Spear of Eternal Bondage,Soulbane,Trident of the Seven Seas,Blasphemous Blade of the Exiled,Pebble Crusher,Skull Shaped Wand,Vile Rib of War,Partisan of Stampede,Mithril Knuckles,Short Bone Blade of the Grimling,Spider Silk Whip,Spider Silk Handwraps,Long Sword of the Defender,Bloody Stone Dagger,Claw of the Savage Spirit,Snowchipper,Silver Blade of Thunder,Fiercewind,Large Meat Tenderizer,Barbarian Spiritist`s Hammer,DawnFire, Morning Star of Light,Staff of Undead Legions,Sarnak Liberator,Hammer of Divinity,Fireclaw Talons,Revtu's Platnium Ulak,Hammer of Holy Vengeance,Pile Driver,Obsidian Scimitar of War,Withering Staff of Agony,Coral Headed Mace,Furious Hammer of Zek,Kelp Hilted Mace,Darkblade of the Warlord,Ivory Hilted Cleaver,Gleaming Obsidian Shard,Greatstaff of the Four Winds,Corpsegrinder,Greatstaff of Power,Bow of the Huntsman,Rune Etched Icewurm Fang,Ishinaear Xiall,Acrylia Handled Broadsword,The Sword of Ssraeshza,Caen's Bo Staff of Fury,Fiery Staff of Zha,Bloodfrenzy,Great Sword of Pestilence,Hammer of Damnation,Clawed Griffin Sword,Spear of Winter,Club of the Ice Ocean,Sledge of Smashing,An Insanity Crawler Fang,The Golden Pick,Brightflame, Pride of the Lifebringer,Tarantella,Summoned: Windwoven Dreamcatcher,Summoned: Searing Torch,Summoned: Icefall Icicle,Summoned: Jagged Ragesword,Hugs,Dainsleif,Durandal,Kisses,TriXim, Dagger of the King,Ensorcelled Great Sword of the Night,Summoned: Burning Shank,Aged Frozen Zweihander,Aged Smoldering Cudgel,Coldforged War Hammer,Summoned: Staff of the North Wind,Summoned: Fireblade,Summoned: Dagger of the Deep,Hammer of Reproach,Sporali Battle Hammer of Spirits,Daybreak, Bringer of Light,Greater Spiked Staff,Mace of Silent Shadow,Maul of Silent ShadowProposed fix would be to set procrate to 0 for these items.

Discuss.

[zrugg]

You seem pretty adamant about making a barb for bsh, so just do it, play what you want, if u wanna min/max go ogre ( frontal stun immunity is nice but like they said spell stun/push can interrupt you as well) , I went Troll for regen and because i think they look awesome, iksar cant use jbb but its not really a big deal later on because you are already clicking 100 buttons already, Barbs are kindof the easy road easier to exp over all / faction which really isnt a hugh deal but its hard to sell in certain areas, and regen is kindof w/e once you get torpor, its a bonus

it has been discussed like 3 million times so play what you want, lvling is a pretty big time investment, maybe role one of each to 20 or something idk bsh isnt game breaking so i wouldn't base my decision solely on that

also new model barb females have the best juggs in game pretty good reason to role that

[pasi]

To be clear:

There should be no weapon with a procmod correct? There are very few that currently exist in game. Will change the mod if this should be the case.

Proposed fix would be to set procrate to 0 for these items.

Discuss.

Correct.

I remember it being a Luclin mechanic which that post on SK.org (which has been reposted pretty much everywhere) agrees with.

There is a small possibility that there were items that had a proc mod in Luclin, but was nerfed prior to that post's date. Unfortunately, there's really no way of knowing any weapons that belong to that group since that post was when the identifier was discovered.

One thing I've noticed is that all the classic/Kunark items that have procmods now (EQlive), are procs of nukes that had their spell level reduced on the spell revamp.

[skorge]

Barbarian Shamans are for people who want to invest less time in their characters (lower experience penalty) or highly value the arguably better default factions, or who simply prefer the way they look. At level 60 they're the worst of the four Shaman races in terms of combat effectiveness. Spiritist's Hammer doesn't change this. It's awfully nice during the leveling phase but I wouldn't make a Barbarian solely for that reason. Consider it more of a perk if you were going to pick Barbarian anyway.

Ogres are not stun immune; this is a common misconception. They're immune to bashes from the frontal arc. Non-frontal bashes and magical stuns hit them the same as anyone else. It's still a strong racial ability but does have limits a player should be aware of.

Danth

Actually Iksars are the worst overall due to the inability to wear and use the JBB, which will be an item that you will be using even in the 60's (free damage to kill mobs with while you farm).

Ogre's frontal immunity is nice but is rarely put to use. The most useful racial trait for shaman is regen, which the troll and Iksar have. Since trolls can wear the JBB they are ranked #1.

#2 would be ogre, then barb at #3. The barb gets ranked 3 because they basically have no racial trait at all, so might as well put the ogre at #2.

This is coming from someone who has played an ogre shaman 1-60 on Red server, own a 60 barb shaman on blue and have leveled a troll shaman 1-53. Troll shamans can also get the snare necklace, an added perk.

I will also go on to say that the winner of the shaman BotB was a troll.

[SamwiseRed]

vah shir has fur, best shammy imo

[gortimer]

Yeah, just so we're clear:



In other words, in 2004 - those 38 items were the only weapons that had any sort of procmods. BSH should not have a procmod of 164% until 2006 or so.

People talking about hammer pricing high back in 2001 on the allakhazam site. This weapon has always had a high process mod.

[gortimer]

http://lucy.fnord.net/itemhistory.html?id=11647

Since initial entry there is no proc rate mod change.

[loramin]

I really want to see the hammer keep it's proc rate, but that site you linked has:

2006-12-13 10:34 Added procratemod: '64'

which would seem to suggest that it didn't have a procratemod prior to 2006-12-13.

Please tell me I'm wrong!

[gortimer]

Ah hell you're right. But that can't be right. I didn't even play past planes of power and it had a known higher process rate even during that time period. On allakhazam one Guy noted saying it procs one to five times a fight(in 2001), which is what it does currently on p99.. so to have it unjustly nerfed is probably what's going to happen.