Questions for Chest/BDA and others

[Geofizzle]

Why are you guys like the stars of the negotiating table when you folks don't even have an interest in raiding competitively on this server?

You keep demanding more and more mobs under the guise of "fairness", but I'm curious how did you guys earn the right to dictate terms to other guilds, when you've gotten historically like 1% of kills on this server, even with your massive population? An answer besides Rogean said so, please. I'm aware he's fond of you guys.

Why is Chest suddenly the king of the raid scene discussion, talking down other guild leaders, etc. Is it something about having nothing to lose and everything to gain during this process? Hasn't BDA historically been a guild has accomplished nothing raid-wise throughout their long P99 career? Why the focus on BDA?

When will the GM suppression of raid guilds who did nothing wrong (FE for example) end?

Why are you guys raising your level cap on guild boards to 50+ and making outward preparations to clean up once you feel that you are given enough free mobs?

[radditsu]

Largest guild on the server. Voice of dissention. Bda hates TMO. FE split from BDA to compete (hurt feels).


Chest is generally salty as fuck anyway.

Now you are caught up. You can stop now.

[radditsu]

You suck at internet purloin

[arsenalpow]

Why are you guys like the stars of the negotiating table when you folks don't even have an interest in raiding competitively on this server?
You can't tell a star not to shine. We do have an interest in raiding competitively. Unfortunately that option to be "competetive" under the precious ruleset required a guild to sink to the lowest possible levels of human decency. We passed on that.

You keep demanding more and more mobs under the guise of "fairness", but I'm curious how did you guys earn the right to dictate terms to other guilds, when you've gotten historically like 1% of kills on this server, even with your massive population? An answer besides Rogean said so, please. I'm aware he's fond of you guys.
Yes, we operate under a guise of "fairness" and no one will be shocked when we run the new server raid scene as a nouveau TMO clone. Again with the argument that we didn't get kills prior; we refused to sell our souls for pixels. Keep making that argument though because I'm almost convinced.

Why is Chest suddenly the king of the raid scene discussion, talking down other guild leaders, etc. Is it something about having nothing to lose and everything to gain during this process? Hasn't BDA historically been a guild has accomplished nothing raid-wise throughout their long P99 career? Why the focus on BDA?

Oh look this argument, AGAIN.

When will the GM suppression of raid guilds who did nothing wrong (FE for example) end?
The guild that split off from BDA to challenge TMO the TMO way, which requires all the bullshit tactics to be employed. FE was a longtime subscriber to comPETITION which made the staff finally snap. I think they can be held accountable for a portion of this mess just like TMO and every other preceding guild that employeed the same mentality.

Why are you guys raising your level cap on guild boards to 50+ and making outward preparations to clean up once you feel that you are given enough free mobs?
We raised our level limit because we had been in a recruiting spree. Our vent capped the other night for the first time in forever. Our players are excited to play in a world sans the bullshit. I'm sure Taken, Divinity, AG, etc are also seeing a return of burnt out players hoping to experience some new content.

[Bruman]

FUCKING STOP MAKING ME AGREE WITH YOU STEALIN, YOU PIECE OF SHIT

[radditsu]

Chest pl my sk

[arsenalpow]

No, you pl MY sk

Going from a 60 monk to a 51 erudite SK is like parking a fucking race car to hop a fucking big wheel

[arsenalpow]

I can level a necro to 54 blindfolded haha. I actually bought a baby iksar necro at I think 40 (?) leveled him to 54 in a week or something then got bored and sold him. I think some TMK guy ended up with him eventually before account sales got turned off.

[radditsu]

No, you pl MY sk

Going from a 60 monk to a 51 erudite SK is like parking a fucking race car to hop a fucking big wheel

Erudite Sk named Dadsad? Sadad's evil twin?

[arsenalpow]

Silkey Johnson. Playa hater of the year

[quido]

Just because BDA trained themselves 90% of the time they tried to raid competitively and blamed it on other guilds doesn't mean our former raid scene was always a shitshow. Sometimes it was, and these situations always got the most press, but in general things were pretty smooth and enjoyable - cutthroat, but smooth.

Furthermore, Chest, I have seen you repeatedly flop trains on people in the Plane of Hate because you thought you'd been trained first.

People don't dislike BDA because it's full of casuals. People dislike BDA because it's full of whiny retards who are too fucking stupid and mad to actually be able to tell what's going on, save a few decent folks.

[radditsu]

Oh EQ, You really need pimp hats.

[radditsu]

Just because BDA trained themselves 90% of the time they tried to raid competitively and blamed it on other guilds doesn't mean our former raid scene was always a shitshow. Sometimes it was, and these situations always got the most press, but in general things were pretty smooth and enjoyable - cutthroat, but smooth.

Furthermore, Chest, I have seen you repeatedly flop trains on people in the Plane of Hate because you thought you'd been trained first.

People don't dislike BDA because it's full of casuals. People dislike BDA because it's full of whiny retards who are too fucking stupid and mad to actually be able to tell what's going on, save a few decent folks.

Whoa whoa whoa, I made this into another waste of time circle jerk thread. Please refrain from putting this back on topic.

[Bruman]

Just because BDA trained themselves 90% of the time they tried to raid competitively and blamed it on other guilds doesn't mean our former raid scene was always a shitshow. Sometimes it was, and these situations always got the most press, but in general things were pretty smooth and enjoyable - cutthroat, but smooth.

Furthermore, Chest, I have seen you repeatedly flop trains on people in the Plane of Hate because you thought you'd been trained first.


THIS JUST IN: Jeremy makes up random shit! RNF is shocked! Full story at 11!


People don't dislike TMO because it's full of neckbeards. People dislike TMO because it's full of whiny retards who are too fucking stupid and mad to actually be able to tell what's going on, save a few decent folks.

FTFY

[Geofizzle]

Just because BDA trained themselves 90% of the time they tried to raid competitively and blamed it on other guilds doesn't mean our former raid scene was always a shitshow. Sometimes it was, and these situations always got the most press, but in general things were pretty smooth and enjoyable - cutthroat, but smooth.

Furthermore, Chest, I have seen you repeatedly flop trains on people in the Plane of Hate because you thought you'd been trained first.

People don't dislike BDA because it's full of casuals. People dislike BDA because it's full of whiny retards who are too fucking stupid and mad to actually be able to tell what's going on, save a few decent folks.

Jeremy makes some good points here. Thanks for the response to most of my questions Chest, even though the answers were self-important and white-knighting in nature. I'm happy your ranks continue to swell with the prospects of more pixels for your 100% noble, albeit starved returning members.

[quido]

o ur rite, i just make stuff up

NAWT!!

[hatelore]

Wtf, Autotune on here all making sense and stuff. World is coming to an end. Bush lives on a tower or something~

[feanan]

Just because BDA trained themselves 90% of the time they tried to raid competitively and blamed it on other guilds doesn't mean our former raid scene was always a shitshow. Sometimes it was, and these situations always got the most press, but in general things were pretty smooth and enjoyable - cutthroat, but smooth.

Furthermore, Chest, I have seen you repeatedly flop trains on people in the Plane of Hate because you thought you'd been trained first.

People don't dislike BDA because it's full of casuals. People dislike BDA because it's full of whiny retards who are too fucking stupid and mad to actually be able to tell what's going on, save a few decent folks.

Lol, like anyone would take the word of anything someone in TMO would say.

People don't disklike TMO because you were on the top of the raid scene. People dislike TMO because its full of greedy selfish loot whores who are too fucking stupid to see what their leaders have done to them.

[Doors]

don't even have an interest in raiding competitively

http://i42.tinypic.com/16i5c76.png

Right there's your competitive raiding experience. Oops I just shit all over every hardcore raiders argument.

[Alarti0001]

THIS JUST IN: Jeremy makes up random shit! RNF is shocked! Full story at 11!



FTFY


This just in Bruman confirmed clueless.
NO one is shocked.

Most of the "claimed" wrongs chest has against TMO are actually BDA fucking themselves over. Lots of fraps to prove it. About the only thing chest has is a Faz fraps at a 2 person group target. (Which we also have many fraps of BDA trains at-Thanks Anthrax!)

[Raavak]

You can't tell a star not to shine.Is this antisocial narcissistic piece of crap for real?

[Jaxon]

You couldn't pay me to play on this fucking server. (http://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=134669)

See? These guys on red put in twice the effort that anyone else does. They deserve every last one of their pixels. You can't say you have a stake in the raid scene if you haven't tried to compete on their level.

[Hitpoint]

Just because BDA trained themselves 90% of the time they tried to raid competitively and blamed it on other guilds doesn't mean our former raid scene was always a shitshow. Sometimes it was, and these situations always got the most press, but in general things were pretty smooth and enjoyable - cutthroat, but smooth.

Furthermore, Chest, I have seen you repeatedly flop trains on people in the Plane of Hate because you thought you'd been trained first.

People don't dislike BDA because it's full of casuals. People dislike BDA because it's full of whiny retards who are too fucking stupid and mad to actually be able to tell what's going on, save a few decent folks.

I was wondering why BDA thinks the raid scene is SO bad when it's really not. Now it all makes sense.

[JackFlash]

This just in Bruman confirmed clueless.
NO one is shocked.

Most of the "claimed" wrongs chest has against TMO are actually BDA fucking themselves over. Lots of fraps to prove it. About the only thing chest has is a Faz fraps at a 2 person group target. (Which we also have many fraps of BDA trains at-Thanks Anthrax!)

This is the type of "raiding" TMO excels at. Frapsing, rules lawyering, poopsocking, camping out mains. Raiding on this server used to be so fun tho!

[arsenalpow]

Is this antisocial narcissistic piece of crap for real?

Just admit you laughed.

[Hitpoint]

This is the type of "raiding" TMO excels at. Frapsing, rules lawyering, poopsocking, camping out mains. Raiding on this server used to be so fun tho!

Not sure why camping out mains is so terrible.

[Purdee]

Not sure why camping out mains is so terrible.

How is that considered "racing"?

[Hitpoint]

How is that considered "racing"?

It is, trust me.

And since when does BDA care about racing anyway? You realize that 4 guilds clearing down to Trakanon is going to involve more training and petitioning than two guilds logging in right at the ledge? Frankly all these rules to stop camping at targets are completely worthless and shouldn't be entertained.

[Nirgon]

Oh EQ, You really need pimp hats.

I will accept this if you mean custom Velious helms

[Daldolma]

It is, trust me.

And since when does BDA care about racing anyway? You realize that 4 guilds clearing down to Trakanon is going to involve more training and petitioning than two guilds logging in right at the ledge? Frankly all these rules to stop camping at targets are completely worthless and shouldn't be entertained.

this guy clearly didn't like classic eq

[Raavak]

Just admit you laughed.I refuse. To admit.

[Nirgon]

Frapsing



rules lawyering



The tape doesn't lie

[baalzy]

Long story short.

TMO/FE used to fighting over the all of the pie. Even if the pie gets doubled they still want to fight over all of the pie. They're not happy getting to fight over a bigger pie if that means anyone else gets pie. So when BDA says they're not going to accept the burnt crust and they want some pie too, they get vilified.

Remember, Pie only tastes good if you're the only one eating it. Doesn't matter how much total pie is available, it matters weather or not you can deny pie to someone else.

[baalzy]

And this point is increasingly evident every time FE flat out says they will not accept a proposal that leaves them with more pie than they had prior but doesn't also then give them an even bigger slice of the VT/Inny/Trak/CS flavored pie.

Really thats the pie no one else is allowed to touch with their filthy casual hands.

[Nirgon]

How is FE/TMO not being allowed to touch the T2 mobs during most periods giving them burnt crust again?

[HeallunRumblebelly]

Long story short.

TMO/FE used to fighting over the all of the pie. Even if the pie gets doubled they still want to fight over all of the pie. They're not happy getting to fight over a bigger pie if that means anyone else gets pie. So when BDA says they're not going to accept the burnt crust and they want some pie too, they get vilified.

Remember, Pie only tastes good if you're the only one eating it. Doesn't matter how much total pie is available, it matters weather or not you can deny pie to someone else.

http://weknowmemes.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/its-not-enough-that-i-should-succeed-others-should-fail-kevin-chang.jpg

[Nirgon]

I'm beginning to think each guild selected 2 completely fucking retarded people to debate in the raid discussion forum to hinder all progress for the other side.

You'll notice I haven't even posted there. I can tell you also that I haven't read a single thing except following one of the links posted elsewhere to Nilbog's proposal.

Which only reminded me resists need to be capped at 255 heh.

[Nirgon]

Nvm doesn't even allow it, like that makes a diff ;P

[quido]

A race to VS from the zone-in as opposed to the pit just means the idiots in each guild are going to train everyone. At least with a camp-out this is minimized, as is leapfrogging since it basically puts people on even footing. It's merely a reduction of your ideal raiding race. A race from Seb zone-in to Trakanon lair isn't fun - it's just going to be a bunch of bullshit trains, or it's going to be FIVE MINUTES OF INTENSE COTHING.

Don't get me wrong - I'm all for de-escalating the camp-out situation (except for Trakanon), but most people don't even really understand the series of events that led up to such a habit.

[hatelore]

Long story short.

TMO/FE used to fighting over the all of the pie. Even if the pie gets doubled they still want to fight over all of the pie. They're not happy getting to fight over a bigger pie if that means anyone else gets pie. So when BDA says they're not going to accept the burnt crust and they want some pie too, they get vilified.

Remember, Pie only tastes good if you're the only one eating it. Doesn't matter how much total pie is available, it matters weather or not you can deny pie to someone else.

This guy here is on mark~

[baalzy]

How is FE/TMO not being allowed to touch the T2 mobs during most periods giving them burnt crust again?

The burnt crust is agreeing to leave gore/vox/naggy/tal/fay alone as long as the filthy filthy tier2s never get more than 2 CT/VS/Trak/Inny per month (and preferably they'd only get 1). The tier2s also aren't allowed to even THINK about entering VP. Doesn't matter if the spawns for every mob are doubled, tier2 only gets 2 tops of each good non-vp mob.

There was the Sirken mandate, which basically doubled the spawns and reduced variance, giving 2 of those mobs to the tier2s. The tier1s sang its praises, they got to double their loot and the tier2s didn't get to go over their quota.

The tier2s realized that they were basically be dictated the tier1 terms while the tier1s were also getting heavily rewarded (yes, the fact that all their years of bad behavior was just rewarded I'm sure is part of the reason some people objected to it) and dissented.

Rogean then proposes a plan where the total mobs are also increased, variance is greatly reduced, the Tier1s end up with more than they had before and the Tier2s get 2-3 of the good mobs. The tier1s whip up into a frenzy and refuse to go with this plan. Not because they're losing mobs, since they're actually gaining mobs, but because the tier2s are now getting 1 too many good mobs.

I almost guarantee they'd go with the Rogean plan if it only included repops on mobs that weren't CT/VS/Trak/Inny. A plan where Tier1 ends up with the same number but the Tier2s don't get any extras.

In both cases each side ends up with more than they had before. It's just the tier1s refuse to accept that Tier2s will get CT/VS/Trak/Inny.

Then when you throw in the fact that the Tier1s are outnumbered more than 2:1 by Tier2s and it just gets even sillier. Tier1s are basically the fat kid at a friends birthday party who ate all the cake and then whines when he doesn't get more ice cream then everyone else.

[Raavak]

Rogean then proposes a plan where the total mobs are also increased, variance is greatly reduced, the Tier1s end up with more than they had before and the Tier2s get 2-3 of the good mobs. The tier1s whip up into a frenzy and refuse to go with this plan.Are you just making this shit up or do you really believe it?

[Daldolma]

A race to VS from the zone-in as opposed to the pit just means the idiots in each guild are going to train everyone. At least with a camp-out this is minimized, as is leapfrogging since it basically puts people on even footing. It's merely a reduction of your ideal raiding race. A race from Seb zone-in to Trakanon lair isn't fun - it's just going to be a bunch of bullshit trains, or it's going to be FIVE MINUTES OF INTENSE COTHING.

Don't get me wrong - I'm all for de-escalating the camp-out situation (except for Trakanon), but most people don't even really understand the series of events that led up to such a habit.

See, this is the problem. You say "well everyone is going to break the rules unless we make it impossible for the rules to be broken". That's what got us into this ridiculous variance-fest in the first place.

Training is against server rules. If you train, you will be suspended. If your guild trains, your guild will be raid suspended. It's not an inevitability that unending trains occur. Make the penalty for training harsh enough, and guilds won't train. They'll find a way to clear in safely or they'll CoH. I understand that GMs don't want to have to play police force on every single engage. That's why it's important that the penalty for training be severe enough. With a two-week raid suspension for any train that affects another guild's ability to engage, GMs aren't going to have to be ultra-vigilant. Guilds are going to be incentivized to take their own precautions against idiot members training and ruining the guild's ability to raid for half a month. If server staff really wants to get proactive, they can even create a system of penalties for false accusations and inconclusive fraps. That way they're only sifting through legitimate accusations, and if they do find an actual train, the hammer comes down hard enough to actually make guilds care.

As for leapfrogging, who cares? That's not a problem. Leapfrogging is classic EQ. If your guild is stupid enough to sit still and kill 3 mobs at a time while a full raid force follows behind you and grabs the last couple Juggs + Trak, then you don't deserve the first engage. The implications of this are obvious. Guilds will be incentivized to bite off the very maximum that they can chew. As soon as you think you can handle the adds plus the raid mob, you're going for it. This will lead to non-trivial encounters where 35 best-in-slot, fully raid buffed, extremely experienced raiders actually wipe on occasion.

And five minutes of intense CoHing is classic, too. If that's the route you want to go, you better be organized and you better engage as soon as you think you're able, because you're not going to have a huge time advantage when you're CoHing in your raid force.

[baalzy]

Are you just making this shit up or do you really believe it?

http://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=134706

Say what?

[quido]

the low-number bid suggestion is getting lost in a sea of jibjab =P put your support behind this proposition!

[mgellan]

It is, trust me.

And since when does BDA care about racing anyway? You realize that 4 guilds clearing down to Trakanon is going to involve more training and petitioning than two guilds logging in right at the ledge? Frankly all these rules to stop camping at targets are completely worthless and shouldn't be entertained.

Not if guilds respect the fact that they've been beaten by the guild that got there in force before them (and is ahead of them clearing down) instead of not conceeding the mob til someone gets FTE...

Regards,
Mg

[baalzy]

http://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=134706

Say what?
Or are you talking about the population thing? Cause then I can also say 'Say what?'

http://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1267081#post1267081

[Raavak]

If you train, you will be suspended. If your guild trains, your guild will be raid suspended.You have to admit there is a difference between an accidental train and a train meant to wreck havoc on another guild's raid. Assuming everyone plays nice the second type won't exist (good luck). But, you are going to have a lot more accidental trains in KC when VS spawns, and they may not even be caused by a raiding guild. This is a statistical probability and has nothing to do with people being jerks.

[arsenalpow]

I'm beginning to think each guild selected 2 completely fucking retarded people to debate in the raid discussion forum to hinder all progress for the other side.

I feel like you just insulted me but I'm not sure.

[Raavak]

http://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=134706

Say what?Where is TMO's response? Or are we no longer in Tier 1.

[quido]

They don't make medicine for what Chest has.

[baalzy]

the low-number bid suggestion is getting lost in a sea of jibjab =P put your support behind this proposition!

I think it's an awesome idea. Post it in the raid forum (since you can).

[Raavak]

Just noting that as far as I know TMO hasn't responded to the 1/1/1 plan, other than Jeremy's 1/1/1/1 thing, which I don't know what to make of.

[Raavak]

I think it's an awesome idea. Post it in the raid forum (since you can).He did! :P Its in Rogean's 1/1/1 thread.

[baalzy]

Where is TMO's response? Or are we no longer in Tier 1.

I just figured since Chest gets to speak for all of the tier2s, then why can't Tanthallas speak for all the tier1s?

I mean, that's how everyone else is acting.

[baalzy]

He did! :P Its in Rogean's 1/1/1 thread.

Ah, I see that. Was a lil behind on the progression of that thread. Kinda thing he should throw it in as it's own thread as something that could be inserted into whatever discussions from there forward.

[Daldolma]

You have to admit there is a difference between an accidental train and a train meant to wreck havoc on another guild's raid. Assuming everyone plays nice the second type won't exist (good luck). But, you are going to have a lot more accidental trains in KC when VS spawns, and they may not even be caused by a raiding guild. This is a statistical probability and has nothing to do with people being jerks.

Who said anything about people being jerks? Penalizing trains has nothing to do with punishing jerks.

Trains should be handled with a regime of strict liability. If you want to raid, you assume the risks inherent in mobilizing to a raid mob that is desired by hundreds of other players. You're liable for any harm you cause, whether or not it was intentional or even negligent.

This would put the onus on the guild to ensure its members are not training. Police your own guild. If you have members too stupid to get to an encounter without training, then you're inadequately screening and/or instructing your guild members to the detriment of every other raiding guild on the server. You must be held liable, lest we allow your guild's harmful action to be subsidized by another guild's acceptance of the resulting burden.

As a guild, you should not expect to be welcomed into the raiding scene until you are capable of controlling your raid force such that you do not negatively impact any other raid force. You are welcome to compete, to race, to kill mobs. You are not welcome to incompetently thrash around and ruin the encounter for everyone else in a mad dash to get FTE.

[Splorf22]

The real problem, Daldoma, is that two raid forces in the same zone just doesn't work.

[Hitpoint]

Who said anything about people being jerks? Penalizing trains has nothing to do with punishing jerks.

Trains should be handled with a regime of strict liability. If you want to raid, you assume the risks inherent in mobilizing to a raid mob that is desired by hundreds of other players. You're liable for any harm you cause, whether or not it was intentional or even negligent.

This would put the onus on the guild to ensure its members are not training. Police your own guild. If you have members too stupid to get to an encounter without training, then you're inadequately screening and/or instructing your guild members to the detriment of every other raiding guild on the server. You must be held liable, lest we allow your guild's harmful action to be subsidized by another guild's acceptance of the resulting burden.

As a guild, you should not expect to be welcomed into the raiding scene until you are capable of controlling your raid force such that you do not negatively impact any other raid force. You are welcome to compete, to race, to kill mobs. You are not welcome to incompetently thrash around and ruin the encounter for everyone else in a mad dash to get FTE.

That's easy to say. I don't know what guild you're in, but I'd put money on every single guild on this server training VS pit if they were given the opportunity. There's always 1 idiot.

[kotton05]

They don't make medicine for what Chest has.

Aripiprazole

[Hitpoint]

And getting to VS pit without agro is ridiculously easy for most classes.

[quido]

Merkk did you know the chemical name of that drug off the top of your head or did you google it?

Reading wikipedia I see it's used to treat "irritability associated with autism" among other things, so maybe they actually do make a medicine for what Chest has!

[arsenalpow]

That's easy to say. I don't know what guild you're in, but I'd put money on every single guild on this server training VS pit if they were given the opportunity. There's always 1 idiot.

I'd agree that intent isn't always malicious, and maybe stupidity shouldn't be punished as harshly as a crime of malice, but how do you separate the two? Before judgement day trains were just the cost of doing business in the raid scene, going forward I'd like that to change. Super harsh penalties for a train because someone is stupid doesn't seem right, and neither do soft penalties for trains with malicious intent. Then it turns into proving intent, or who's fault it was anyways, fraps are required, etc etc.

trains are the worst

[Raavak]

Ah, I see that. Was a lil behind on the progression of that thread. Kinda thing he should throw it in as it's own thread as something that could be inserted into whatever discussions from there forward.You're probably right. Like he even said, his idea is lost in all the discussion. It's not a bad idea, but at this point in time I don't see Tier 2-types going for it.

In TMO's own VP farming there have been a couple drives to have tiny raid attempts at Silverwing, and we have attempted a few others on the skinny (20 man Gore or so a month ago?) Its extra fun when you win those. Because of how the guild is organized its hard to get these going. Jeremy's plan helps create that pathway. I also could see more pick-up type raids if his plan were to happen... i.e. trying to kill Sev with 1 warrior, 2 clerics, and 10 rogues, or something.

[Daldolma]

The real problem, Daldoma, is that two raid forces in the same zone just doesn't work.

I don't agree. It worked on Live and it has worked on P99, depending mostly on the raid forces involved.

Unfortunately, the server rules have created an atmosphere where two guilds can't reasonably "compete" for a mob. Variances are so enormous that only 2-3 guilds are even willing to try, and those guilds have entire, fully buffed raid forces logged at the encounter site so that there is no actual encounter. There is a pull, an engage, and then a mindlessly trivial downing of a mob that has been weighed, measured, and dissected 1000 times over because this game is 15 years old. The only "encounter" is FTE. The only competition occurs at character select. Wipes require mind-boggling incompetence.

If guilds are held strictly liable for their trains and precluded from camping raid forces at raid sites, you can have legitimate competition again.

[Raavak]

And getting to VS pit without agro is ridiculously easy for most classes.Yes, but so many people fail. IVU potions are so cheap...

[Hitpoint]

Yes, but so many people fail. IVU potions are so cheap...

Yea man. I truly don't understand how this happens so often. Even if you get agro, just don't bring it to the raid. Root and camp at box room or something, shit. Or just die.

[quido]

It's generally the little dogs that fuck people.

[Daldolma]

That's easy to say. I don't know what guild you're in, but I'd put money on every single guild on this server training VS pit if they were given the opportunity. There's always 1 idiot.

As of now, you're absolutely correct. And that's the foundation of Splorf's point about two distinct raid forces not being able to co-exist.

That's because guilds aren't being held liable for their guilds' idiots. I'll use TMO as an example, because they are an easy punching bag. I apologize TMO -- it's not your fault. You reacted to server rules.

But TMO has mass recruited for years now. If you have a pulse, a level 60, and a willingness to log in at unusual hours to kill dragons, they will accept you. Not only will they accept you, but you will be a valuable member. Whether or not you know the mechanics of the game or how to play your character is really a secondary concern. Even an idiot can be CoH'd or follow 20 guildies to a raid site, get buffed, log out, log in, and hit auto attack.

In the very rare event that legitimate "races" to mobs occur (mostly on server repops), these idiots cause problems for other raid forces. They train, they get lost, they thrash around mindlessly. So yes, if we increase the number of actual races to mobs, it can and should be expected that these people would cause problems with regularity. That is why a regime of strict liability is necessary. If a guild is held liable for its own idiots, it doesn't become the server's problem or the CSR's problem. It becomes the guild's problem. If TMO has a few idiots that can't figure out how to get to a spot without training, then TMO either needs to teach them how or boot them out. Otherwise, they're going to be eating raid suspensions.

You can pretend that this would result in unending trains, but it wouldn't. TMO isn't stupid. They're not going to keep eating raid suspensions. If this server has shown anything, it's that guilds will adapt to changing raid rules.

[Raavak]

Yea man. I truly don't understand how this happens so often. Even if you get agro, just don't bring it to the raid. Root and camp at box room or something, shit. Or just die.Sometimes I swear people go brain dead during stressful raids. I've seen good players do some really bone headed things in these situations.

[Raavak]

Yeah and the little dogs. I root and camp, but I don't know what a warrior should do, besides die. Not enough people just taking that death.

[baalzy]

I'd agree that intent isn't always malicious, and maybe stupidity shouldn't be punished as harshly as a crime of malice, but how do you separate the two? Before judgement day trains were just the cost of doing business in the raid scene, going forward I'd like that to change. Super harsh penalties for a train because someone is stupid doesn't seem right, and neither do soft penalties for trains with malicious intent. Then it turns into proving intent, or who's fault it was anyways, fraps are required, etc etc.

trains are the worst

Accidental train that interrupts another mobilized forces ability to engage = that persons guild forfeits engage rights on that mob for 1 hour.

Not a full on raid suspension, they just need to port out, clear their way back in and hope nobody kills it within an hour.

[Hitpoint]

Yeah and the little dogs. I root and camp, but I don't know what a warrior should do, besides die. Not enough people just taking that death.

You should get invis vs undead somehow and take the basement route under rcy. One small dog right at the front is usually dead but can be pacified or rooted if it's up. From there you have absolutely no living mobs until you pop out next to VS pit. So you basically have one mob that you have to deal with between basement and VS pit. Can usually invis past it. Everyone should just take this path, it's actually the best.

[Hitpoint]

Accidental train that interrupts another mobilized forces ability to engage = that persons guild forfeits engage rights on that mob for 1 hour.

Not a full on raid suspension, they just need to port out, clear their way back in and hope nobody kills it within an hour.

This is far more reasonable. Ridiculously harsh punishments will just have guilds trying to get another guild suspended for a month. And this WILL happen. Because trains will happen, no matter how careful people are.

[Funkutron5000]

Yes, but so many people fail. IVU potions are so cheap...

Just be a non-worthless class and cast it on yourself. No need for a potion, just a little bit of mana.

[quido]

says the paladin!

[Raavak]

If TMO has a few idiots that can't figure out how to get to a spot without training, then TMO either needs to teach them how or boot them out.Not to throw my guildies under the bus, but I am often amazed by the number of people who don't know how to get around some of these dungeons unassisted after all these years. I'd be afraid to know how many don't know the way from Seb zone in to Trak lair.

And I know its not just TMO because I've been in exp groups sitting in a camp and tell a lfg to come join you and they are like "I don't know my way to hand". Doh.

[Daldolma]

Accidental train that interrupts another mobilized forces ability to engage = that persons guild forfeits engage rights on that mob for 1 hour.

Not a full on raid suspension, they just need to port out, clear their way back in and hope nobody kills it within an hour.

This is impossible to enforce. It would require an instant GM ruling.

And anyway, it's really no impediment at all. If your guild is going to miss out on FTE anyway unless you recklessly blow past mobs and burst into the engage site, you might as well train your way there and deal with the consequences if you get caught. Very few trains are actually caught on fraps. If the only penalty is "oh well, you don't get this mob", then nobody is going to stop training.

The penalty has to be extremely harsh. The idea that accidental trains are somehow less bad than intentional trains is mistaken. The guild being trained doesn't care. Intentional or not, your train is causing harm to other guilds and you should be held liable for that harm. If you're not prepared to raid without unintentionally ruining the encounter for 30+ other people, then you shouldn't be raiding.

The problem right now is that the 30+ people you're ruining it for are powerless. If an idiot in TMO unintentionally trains BDA, BDA doesn't really have any recourse. The rules need to shift the burden. When a dumb guild member is ruining it for his own guild by putting them on raid suspension, then you'll start to see the trains stop.

[Purdee]

It is, trust me.

And since when does BDA care about racing anyway? You realize that 4 guilds clearing down to Trakanon is going to involve more training and petitioning than two guilds logging in right at the ledge? Frankly all these rules to stop camping at targets are completely worthless and shouldn't be entertained.

nah sorry, don't trust you. also, I don't speak for the guild, just myself, so stop trying to lump my question in with the guild.

that's not how we did it back in 99-2000. Racing was actually just that, racing, not seeing how fast we could swap between alts. And I don't just mean from the zone in either.

[Nirgon]

2 CT


I really want to see BDA or other T2 guilds charge into fear on a full repop then charge CT and win.



VS

Want to see BDA take this fool down after next patch. I'm basically 100% sure, but its just something I want to see... not for the same reason as above.



Trak
2 isn't enough? He's kind of a top tier Kunark mob ya know :P.


Inny

Here's a great mob for the "mains without epics" debate. But yeah give this guy and Faydedar a fucking rest, seriously.

the fat kid at a friends birthday party who ate all the cake and then whines when he doesn't get more ice cream then everyone else.

Except you can't eat all the cake... the mobs respawn every month. There will be more "cake" coming every month and you get a real shot at them. I agree I would never except BDA/Taken to TRUELY contest TMO/FE in the mobs per month club... so I think its healthy for the server to make these changes especially with repop days being factored into the equation.

But I also find it BORING and WASTEFUL for some rule to be made that no one at all can touch something unless they are a specific guild, and it can be killed whenever they finally get people on to kill it / without tracking it.... it will turn into the more dedicated players tracking for you and trying to get you to kill it as soon as possible so it doesn't start shaving hours going into the # of mobs that can effectively spawn in a year. Worse, this is dangerously close to "instancing" content except your instanced dragon is free to roam the dreadlands and grief newbies while you figure out what night of the week you guys actually feel like killing it:

"Friday night work for you?"
"Naw I got karate class... how about Saturday?"
"Naw you know I can't raid Saturdays..."
"Well how about Monday?"
"Well this Monday I have to play cards with my grandparents"

I'm generalizing the above but this isn't the kind of shit you pulled in EQ and got raid loot. It shouldn't be here either. Lots of guilds will have trouble killing certain mobs (big time in Velious and I'm looking ahead) if certain members can't make it like their "casual" main tank that farmed enough fungis to buy a cobalt bp etc. Mobs getting left up until a certain guild can finally get enough certain people on is just absolutely stupid.

Truth of the matter I think that the previously agreed upon raid rules were a solution and a compromise. Btw a compromise means you will also probably really not like parts of it. A compromise doesn't mean you like everything about it so you will agree to it. A compromise means things are better than they were before for you even though you aren't getting exactly what you want. Look up the definition of compromise.

As far as "now there's gonna be more trains and petitions with having to clear down" etc? If you are a guild that habitually has trouble clearing down, wipes/trains/makes a mess? Maybe you shouldn't be part of the rotation on that mob? Maybe you can't handle your shit and shouldn't try to race as fast as the better guild? I already know what people on both sides will do if the other team is looking like they will get to the mob first. They will recklessly charge through and try to aoe things down or just mez them and try to FTE the boss (look how CT is done now... and actually with surprising success). I would hope when Trak does spawn the players in the zone are warned that raid guilds will be charging down there like wild Indians and they are intelligent enough to yield until the chaos clears.

[radditsu]

There is a post scarcity star trek argument here somewhere. I dont feel like hashing it out. Pretend I madea 100 line response on the subject.

[hatelore]

Accidental train that interrupts another mobilized forces ability to engage = that persons guild forfeits engage rights on that mob for 1 hour.

Not a full on raid suspension, they just need to port out, clear their way back in and hope nobody kills it within an hour.


That's actually a very good. Only 1 problem though... With that rule, TMO would never get kills ;( Which makes it very unfair.

[Raavak]

Everyone should just take this path, it's actually the best.If Hand is camped you can go all the way west and then hang a right to find the pit and not see a mob. Its the people who turn north down the first hallway on top that always seem to catch aggro.

Or people could just stop and solo/duo/trio the mobs... they aren't that hard if there's not a big train of them.

[Raavak]

That's actually a very good. Only 1 problem though... With that rule, TMO would never get kills ;( Which makes it very unfair.I know you think you're being funny, but TMO hardly has a monopoly on players accidentally causing trains. I'd say its spread pretty evenly. I just hope that after all this that people make better attempts to not train so we can have fun raids and not "omfg more mobs" raids.

[Hailto]

Autotune very obviously trying to set himself up for BDA membership once he gets his necro to 60. How the mighty have fallen.

[radditsu]

says the paladin!

What's a paladin?

[Bruman]

I plan to make my own guild actually.

Laters BDA!

[hatelore]

I really want to see BDA or other T2 guilds charge into fear on a full repop then charge CT and win.



Want to see BDA take this fool down after next patch. I'm basically 100% sure, but its just something I want to see... not for the same reason as above.




2 isn't enough? He's kind of a top tier Kunark mob ya know :P.



Here's a great mob for the "mains without epics" debate. But yeah give this guy and Faydedar a fucking rest, seriously.



Except you can't eat all the cake... the mobs respawn every month. There will be more "cake" coming every month and you get a real shot at them. I agree I would never except BDA/Taken to TRUELY contest TMO/FE in the mobs per month club... so I think its healthy for the server to make these changes especially with repop days being factored into the equation.

But I also find it BORING and WASTEFUL for some rule to be made that no one at all can touch something unless they are a specific guild, and it can be killed whenever they finally get people on to kill it / without tracking it.... it will turn into the more dedicated players tracking for you and trying to get you to kill it as soon as possible so it doesn't start shaving hours going into the # of mobs that can effectively spawn in a year. Worse, this is dangerously close to "instancing" content except your instanced dragon is free to roam the dreadlands and grief newbies while you figure out what night of the week you guys actually feel like killing it:

"Friday night work for you?"
"Naw I got karate class... how about Saturday?"
"Naw you know I can't raid Saturdays..."
"Well how about Monday?"
"Well this Monday I have to play cards with my grandparents"

I'm generalizing the above but this isn't the kind of shit you pulled in EQ and got raid loot. It shouldn't be here either. Lots of guilds will have trouble killing certain mobs (big time in Velious and I'm looking ahead) if certain members can't make it like their "casual" main tank that farmed enough fungis to buy a cobalt bp etc. Mobs getting left up until a certain guild can finally get enough certain people on is just absolutely stupid.

Truth of the matter I think that the previously agreed upon raid rules were a solution and a compromise. Btw a compromise means you will also probably really not like parts of it. A compromise doesn't mean you like everything about it so you will agree to it. A compromise means things are better than they were before for you even though you aren't getting exactly what you want. Look up the definition of compromise.

As far as "now there's gonna be more trains and petitions with having to clear down" etc? If you are a guild that habitually has trouble clearing down, wipes/trains/makes a mess? Maybe you shouldn't be part of the rotation on that mob? Maybe you can't handle your shit and shouldn't try to race as fast as the better guild? I already know what people on both sides will do if the other team is looking like they will get to the mob first. They will recklessly charge through and try to aoe things down or just mez them and try to FTE the boss (look how CT is done now... and actually with surprising success). I would hope when Trak does spawn the players in the zone are warned that raid guilds will be charging down there like wild Indians and they are intelligent enough to yield until the chaos clears.

Sometimes I truely wonder if you have ever raided on p99. BDA actually had no problem competing with tmo, and you do realize a good portion of fe are old bda right?

The problem bda had with raiding against tmo was: we didn't wish to continue to compete against a guild that trained,cheated and griefed at every opportunity against us on the raid scene. Loot is just not that important.

Sometimes your posts are insightful. Other times, you really sound pretty clueless as to the "happenings" in the p99 raid scene.

[radditsu]

Sometimes I truely wonder if you have ever raided on p99. BDA actually had no problem competing with tmo, and you do realize a good portion of fe are old bda right?

The problem bda had with raiding against tmo was: we didn't wish to continue to compete against a guild that trained,cheated and griefed at every opportunity against us on the raid scene. Loot is just not that important.

Sometimes your posts are insightful. Other times, you really sound pretty clueless as to the "happenings" in the p99 raid scene.


Truth

[quido]

TMO never intentionally griefed BDA, and I'm positive that BDA caused more trains in the races we shared. Stop being such a pussy with excuses, Hatelore. If you don't want to compete on that level, that's your prerogative, but to blame TMO for you not taking initiative is a pathetic cop-out.

[Hitpoint]

I think in like the past 6 months we've suspected that TMO intentionally trained us once or twice tops. Even those probably weren't on purpose. I'm sorry guys but the raid scene actually isn't as terrible as you make it sound. Sometimes trains happen, they are almost never on purpose, and it's usually the same guild training itself by accident.

[quido]

Hitpoint is absolutely right. The BDA white knight excuse is a cop-out.

[quido]

Furthermore BDA contains the remnants of VD which is probably the most all-time trash guild on this server. They engaged in a level of petition quest and flat-out grief that no guild to this date has matched.

[quido]

Calling a bunch of retards a bunch of retards doesn't make me erect - you bring it on yourselves. I think the average IQ in BDA is about 75 given the retarded shit you guys think is funny and true.

[Kagatob]

Jeremy, go take a nap. You're mad.

[radditsu]

Dude, geromy, you mad.

[quido]

Not mad - just brutally honest as usual. BDA is stupid and annoying but they've never been any skin off my palatial back.

[radditsu]

Geromy has a back like henry fucking rollins.

[quido]

you're god damn right I do

[quido]

I'm a majestic beast

[radditsu]

http://www.vanishingtattoo.com/tattoo/images/celeb-rollins_henry/rollins_henry_large/henry_rollins_009.jpg

[hatelore]

Hahah, that ruffled a few feathers.

[JackFlash]

http://i2.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/249/843/7e8.jpg

[Redstars]

i dont know this chest guy, but he seems pretty douchie. just saying.

[chief]

wait BDA are the white knights? I remember an enchanter(1 enchanter could grief 30+) mem blur griefing us 3 months straight causing multiple wipes(memblur a dragon would make it have 100%hp again). THe fuck if BDA are the white knights of the server.

[hatelore]

Do you smoke crack? Srs question .

[Tasslehofp99]

Been avoiding p99 lately since its no longer what I came here for (classic everquest) and it looks to be heading in the direction of the other custom servers despite the classic content/mechanics mostly being on point.


No competition among guilds for bosses = not classic, and a stones throw away from instancing.

That being said, why are FE/IB expected to have the same limitations placed on them as TMO? We didn't lock every mob down for 2+ years like TMO did(selling all the extra loot for plat.)

Any raid proposal placing TMO in the same category as any other guild is fucked.

TMO should be restricted to VP only till velious, only fair!

Also why is IB being placed in this same "tier 1" category yet BDA has about 15x more players and fields about 3x as many per raid?


This shits cray

[quido]

poor Tasslehof

[Tasslehofp99]

poor Tasslehof

Don't feel bad for me bro I found the sickest game ever (rust) and been playing it with friends ( got bout 12 to 15 p99ers on our server) nonstop since I bought it off steam. Seriously best game I've played since live eq, so much fun and potential in this game (still in alpha phase) and its only 20 bucks.

I think you would probably enjoy it jeremy, you should check it out.

[quido]

Is that where you get a piece of iron wet and sit and watch it oxidize?

[Tasslehofp99]

Is that where you get a piece of iron wet and sit and watch it oxidize?

Its much more than that already at its earliest stages of development. I am a skeptic when it comes to new age games but I really have to say this game brings back the epic feelings that classic live eq players experienced. I can't wait to see where they take this game because it has more potential than any game I've tried since everquest in 99.

Seriously though, you should check it out. It is easily the most fun I've had for 20 dollars in years, in terms of gaming anyway lol.

[quido]

I've been playing Wizardry Online the last little while.

[goshozal]

Sometimes I truely wonder if you have ever raided on p99. BDA actually had no problem competing with tmo,

Winning wasn't a problem?

[Clark]

It is, trust me.

And since when does BDA care about racing anyway? You realize that 4 guilds clearing down to Trakanon is going to involve more training and petitioning than two guilds logging in right at the ledge? Frankly all these rules to stop camping at targets are completely worthless and shouldn't be entertained.

[radditsu]

Its everquest not "camp an alt to zerg a dragon"quest.

[Tiggles]

Don't feel bad for me bro I found the sickest game ever (rust) and been playing it with friends ( got bout 12 to 15 p99ers on our server) nonstop since I bought it off steam. Seriously best game I've played since live eq, so much fun and potential in this game (still in alpha phase) and its only 20 bucks.

I think you would probably enjoy it jeremy, you should check it out.

You try dayz standalone yet tassle?

Been playing with some friends and been having a blast. Friend found a rare spawn m14 and we got jumped by bandits and she shredded three of them it was hilarious.

[YendorLootmonkey]

Its much more than that already at its earliest stages of development. I am a skeptic when it comes to new age games but I really have to say this game brings back the epic feelings that classic live eq players experienced. I can't wait to see where they take this game because it has more potential than any game I've tried since everquest in 99.

Seriously though, you should check it out. It is easily the most fun I've had for 20 dollars in years, in terms of gaming anyway lol.

I just run around naked, being eaten by wolves :(

I keep getting desynched after about 5 minutes of play... then I can't harvest materials or kill anything until I re-connect. Annoying :(

[suptoofs]

Don't feel bad for me bro I found the sickest game ever (rust) and been playing it with friends ( got bout 12 to 15 p99ers on our server) nonstop since I bought it off steam. Seriously best game I've played since live eq, so much fun and potential in this game (still in alpha phase) and its only 20 bucks.

I think you would probably enjoy it jeremy, you should check it out.

Rust is awesome btw, I am playing as well :D!

[doraf]

I just run around naked, being eaten by wolves :(

That pretty much sums up Rust. LOL

[Whiteberry]

Yes, but so many people fail. IVU potions are so cheap...

Harmony FTW

[OMGWTF420]

sup

[YendorLootmonkey]

That pretty much sums up Rust. LOL

Coincidentally similar to the first 10-20 levels of playing a ranger on Everquest.

[doraf]

Coincidentally similar to the first 10-20 levels of playing a ranger on Everquest.

So true. lol

[kotton05]

rust is great, we treat airdrops like trak spawns and race for it

[Nietche]

Super harsh penalties for a train because someone is stupid doesn't seem right, and neither do soft penalties for trains with malicious intent. Then it turns into proving intent, or who's fault it was anyways, fraps are required, etc etc....trains are the worst

I remember that one fraps when you blamed TMO for a train in Fear ("Thanks TMO").

You should get invis vs undead somehow and take the basement route under rcy. One small dog right at the front is usually dead but can be pacified or rooted if it's up. From there you have absolutely no living mobs until you pop out next to VS pit. So you basically have one mob that you have to deal with between basement and VS pit. Can usually invis past it. Everyone should just take this path, it's actually the best.

It doesn't matter how cautious you are or what route you take. You can't plan for what's going to happen when the "wrong mob" is up (usually the doggie like Jeremy said) or when either IVU or Invis wears off at seemingly inexplicable times. You can't plan for the rush of panic that sets in while racing for a mob like VS when your invis falls off or you somehow agro the jailer while some non-raider pulled it past you, only to die for some reason, thus pinning his/her "train" on you. You can't plan for the bs that always happens in EQ--the EQ "fuck you, _Player_" that basically means you're guaranteed to die no matter what you do, no matter how many hps you have, no matter how much mana you have, no matter how great your spells are (people who have played a long time know exactly what I mean)--you're still going to fizzle 5 times straight and your FD is going to fail.

As far as "now there's gonna be more trains and petitions with having to clear down" etc? If you are a guild that habitually has trouble clearing down, wipes/trains/makes a mess? Maybe you shouldn't be part of the rotation on that mob? Maybe you can't handle your shit and shouldn't try to race as fast as the better guild?

What we need is to make these zones "red" for level 60's (or alternatively for anyone tagged in "C" guilds): VP, OS, KC, and all planes. Racing will then take on the concomitant aspect of pvp which, in my mind, will reduce trains. When trains are the only outlet to defeat another team in attaining an objective, trains are going to happen more often than when pvp is a viable alternative.

Sometimes I truely wonder if you have ever raided on p99. BDA actually had no problem competing with tmo, and you do realize a good portion of fe are old bda right?

Bullshit. You infected BDA with VD with the intent of wiping TMO off the face of the server. You never wanted to compete. Prior to this atrocity (Yes, Sadad, I used that word again), all Sanluen had to do was accept TMO's genuine intention of helping BDA achieve "dragon status" (e.g., Gore, remember that? I do). But Sanluen hates TMO, as does Chest and several others, and they absolutely refused to negotiate with TMO. Hence, the VD-BDA merger.

Just to keep the newbies up to date: When FE was in BDA, FE was actually old VD (Vesica Dei), the shit bags who trained TMO alongside IB for months until IB fled to EQMac and Coldblooded quit. FE is the spawn of what happens when the likes of Chest and Shinko try to team up in the same room.

[radditsu]

I remember that one fraps when you blamed TMO for a train in Fear ("Thanks TMO").



It doesn't matter how cautious you are or what route you take. You can't plan for what's going to happen when the "wrong mob" is up (usually the doggie like Jeremy said) or when either IVU or Invis wears off at seemingly inexplicable times. You can't plan for the rush of panic that sets in while racing for a mob like VS when your invis falls off or you somehow agro the jailer while some non-raider pulled it past you, only to die for some reason, thus pinning his/her "train" on you. You can't plan for the bs that always happens in EQ--the EQ "fuck you, _Player_" that basically means you're guaranteed to die no matter what you do, no matter how many hps you have, no matter how much mana you have, no matter how great your spells are (people who have played a long time know exactly what I mean)--you're still going to fizzle 5 times straight and your FD is going to fail.



What we need is to make these zones "red" for level 60's (or alternatively for anyone tagged in "C" guilds): VP, OS, KC, and all planes. Racing will then take on the concomitant aspect of pvp which, in my mind, will reduce trains. When trains are the only outlet to defeat another team in attaining an objective, trains are going to happen more often than when pvp is a viable alternative.



Bullshit. You infected BDA with VD with the intent of wiping TMO off the face of the server. You never wanted to compete. Prior to this atrocity (Yes, Sadad, I used that word again), all Sanluen had to do was accept TMO's genuine intention of helping BDA achieve "dragon status" (e.g., Gore, remember that? I do). But Sanluen hates TMO, as does Chest and several others, and they absolutely refused to negotiate with TMO. Hence, the VD-BDA merger.

Just to keep the newbies up to date: When FE was in BDA, FE was actually old VD (Vesica Dei), the shit bags who trained TMO alongside IB for months until IB fled to EQMac and Coldblooded quit. FE is the spawn of what happens when the likes of Chest and Shinko try to team up in the same room.

Innacurate and dum.

[hatelore]

I remember that one fraps when you blamed TMO for a train in Fear ("Thanks TMO").



It doesn't matter how cautious you are or what route you take. You can't plan for what's going to happen when the "wrong mob" is up (usually the doggie like Jeremy said) or when either IVU or Invis wears off at seemingly inexplicable times. You can't plan for the rush of panic that sets in while racing for a mob like VS when your invis falls off or you somehow agro the jailer while some non-raider pulled it past you, only to die for some reason, thus pinning his/her "train" on you. You can't plan for the bs that always happens in EQ--the EQ "fuck you, _Player_" that basically means you're guaranteed to die no matter what you do, no matter how many hps you have, no matter how much mana you have, no matter how great your spells are (people who have played a long time know exactly what I mean)--you're still going to fizzle 5 times straight and your FD is going to fail.



What we need is to make these zones "red" for level 60's (or alternatively for anyone tagged in "C" guilds): VP, OS, KC, and all planes. Racing will then take on the concomitant aspect of pvp which, in my mind, will reduce trains. When trains are the only outlet to defeat another team in attaining an objective, trains are going to happen more often than when pvp is a viable alternative.



Bullshit. You infected BDA with VD with the intent of wiping TMO off the face of the server. You never wanted to compete. Prior to this atrocity (Yes, Sadad, I used that word again), all Sanluen had to do was accept TMO's genuine intention of helping BDA achieve "dragon status" (e.g., Gore, remember that? I do). But Sanluen hates TMO, as does Chest and several others, and they absolutely refused to negotiate with TMO. Hence, the VD-BDA merger.

Just to keep the newbies up to date: When FE was in BDA, FE was actually old VD (Vesica Dei), the shit bags who trained TMO alongside IB for months until IB fled to EQMac and Coldblooded quit. FE is the spawn of what happens when the likes of Chest and Shinko try to team up in the same room.

You're sort of dum and don't deserve a response, but I'll bite...




U r dum. rip vd.

[Whiteberry]

You're sort of dum and don't deserve a response, but I'll bite...




U r dum. rip vd.

dumb
just fyi

[hatelore]

No its not, it's dum motherfucker.

[radditsu]

No its not, it's dum motherfucker.

[Aryan_Stormfront]

Bullshit. You infected BDA with VD with the intent of wiping TMO off the face of the server. You never wanted to compete. Prior to this atrocity (Yes, Sadad, I used that word again), all Sanluen had to do was accept TMO's genuine intention of helping BDA achieve "dragon status" (e.g., Gore, remember that? I do). But Sanluen hates TMO, as does Chest and several others, and they absolutely refused to negotiate with TMO. Hence, the VD-BDA merger.

Ahh, it all makes sense now why you and your jizz receptical Knix ran to the loving arms of TMO around that time. You were upset the guild you were in wouldn't take the sloppy seconds (Gore) after TMO had raped the server every which way from sunday.

Enjoy deluding yourself into thinking you accomplished anything. Everyone, including your own guildies, have zero respect for you and those like you who joined after the fight was over to reap the easy pixels. Bet it feels good to watch someones alt get loot over you!

[Nietche]

Who are you?

You really don't understand. TMO is a great guild with the greatest members this server has ever seen.

[radditsu]

Who are you?

You really don't understand. TMO is a great guild with the greatest members this server has ever seen.

Says no one ever

[hatelore]

Lol, that's almost quotable if anyone else would have said that. Anyone else.