How to be a good SK tank?

[Pilgrimzero]

So, Ive been playing my DE SK (Hesperax) and am now level 9, woo spells!

Problem is I still can't taunt for crap. And thats my roll in groups. To take the beating. no matter how much a hit them or taunt them they pretty much ignore me.

What can I do to better recieve threat? I have a nifty magic sword and shield. The sword doesn;t proc or anything. I've heard a good proc weapon helps keep aggro. I could maybe afford a Tentcle Whip if anyone ever sales one in EQ.

Any thoughts? Or weapons or advice I sure would appreciate it. I want to fill my role in the group...

Thanks!

[big mouth chew]

1) spam disease cloud
2) ????
3) profit

[Nikon]

Lower levels on the Shadowknight are difficult to keep aggro especially if other group members are just spamming down the mobs with spells. Your tools for keeping aggro aren't very well developed at such low levels. You'll be forced to use Disease Cloud's snap aggro a lot early on (and it still won't be 100% effective). Your snare line will also help keep aggro but you won't get your first snare until 15. If you get to about 20 or so and are still continually having problems keeping aggro, pay close attention to what's happening when you lose aggro and come back to us with details.

[Tikker]

you're level 9

i wouldn't even worry about it too much

aggro management is everyone's job, not just the tanks

[Danth]

Nonsense, if you're a hybrid tank, then aggro management is YOUR job. That's the fun in playing one. If you aren't teaching your damage-dealers horrible habits that'll get them killed the next time they group with a Warrior, you're not trying hard enough!

That being said, level 9 is a bit too low to accomplish that task, especially as a Shadow Knight. You don't have meditate until 12, so your mana will be pretty badly limited. Disease Cloud has a bit of a cooldown on it so you can't just spam it back to back, and it's rather less immediate aggro than your later aggro spells. Clinging Darkness at 15 gives you another good tool, but it'll be some levels after that before you also have the necessary mana pool and meditation rate to maintain such spell use for any length of time. Eventually, at 39, you'll also gain access to Shadow Vortex and (if you're really determined to make something stick) Heart Flutter. Proper use of your spells will allow you to tell the local Wizard to chain-cast Ice Comet upon pull and the mob will stick to you anyway, and you can bask in the delight of knowing the future deaths you're causing.

In general the Shadow Knight is something of a late bloomer class. It starts out slow and doesn't really come into its own until relatively late. Once it gets going though it keeps getting better as you level, basically all the way to 60.

Danth

[Malone88]

Disease Cloud/Darkness Spells/Shadow Vortex are your best taunts.
Don't really need to spam them too much. Pull with DC and when
you lose aggro, cast it again to get aggro back. You can throw
Darkness (Snare) on mob midfight to add aggro to yourself and
prevent runners. Taunt will work some of the time when mob turns
away from you, but your spells are more effective.

Also, if there is a bard/enchanter/necro mezzing in your group,
be careful using your DOTs for taunting adds. Once you get
Shadow Vortex, this can safely be used to pull adds away
from casters because it doesn't DOT the mob.

[Shaakglith12194]

Disease Cloud/Darkness Spells/Shadow Vortex are your best taunts.
Don't really need to spam them too much. Pull with DC and when
you lose aggro, cast it again to get aggro back. You can throw
Darkness (Snare) on mob midfight to add aggro to yourself and
prevent runners. Taunt will work some of the time when mob turns
away from you, but your spells are more effective.

Also, if there is a bard/enchanter/necro mezzing in your group,
be careful using your DOTs for taunting adds. Once you get
Shadow Vortex, this can safely be used to pull adds away
from casters because it doesn't DOT the mob.

This. That's basically it. Disease cloud is crazy aggro. Shadow Vortex is great aggro once you get it, and you should cast it on every mezzed mob that you're about to attack. Hit em with some shadow vortex, taunt, hit em with that disease cloud. If that doesn't get its attention, your chanter must have done something to its mother. Once you can use blood ember gauntlets, it's nice to use that to maintain aggro. And the earlier poster who said it's everyone's job to control their aggro is right, but you won't see it work like that on this server. Can't say I've ever seen a monk FD to drop aggro; most rogues don't sneak/hide to drop aggro either.

[Cecily]

Nonsense, if you're a hybrid tank, then aggro management is YOUR job. That's the fun in playing one. If you aren't teaching your damage-dealers horrible habits that'll get them killed the next time they group with a Warrior, you're not trying hard enough!

LMAO! Every freaking time I group with a SK, I play absolutely awful for the first 10 mins with my next warrior.

[Potus]

1) spam disease cloud
2) ????
3) profit

This. Also snare runners.

[Tecmos Deception]

Don't really need to spam them too much. Pull with DC and when
you lose aggro, cast it again to get aggro back.

I like pulling with siphon strength on my SK and then firing a DC so that the cap on initial aggro doesn't limit my DC and cause the rogue's first backstab/the shaman's slow/whatever to pull off of me. Not a big deal though, since DC is only on a short cooldown anyway and SV isn't too expensive to cast between DCs if you need extra threat.

[Jimjam]

What other classes are you grouping with? It could be other toons are trying to level up their taunt skill. Or are using their stuns/snares too early (both these effects are high aggro).

If you are grouping with mages be aware the earth pets cast root. When a mob is rooted it will attack whichever player is closest (assuming one is in melee range).

[big mouth chew]

i dont think ive ever lost aggro ever
thanks disease cloud

[Danth]

I like pulling with siphon strength on my SK and then firing a DC so that the cap on initial aggro doesn't limit my DC and cause the rogue's first backstab/the shaman's slow/whatever to pull off of me. Not a big deal though, since DC is only on a short cooldown anyway and SV isn't too expensive to cast between DCs if you need extra threat.

Good for mentioning the hate cap on initial aggro. Lot of folks don't even know about it. Good reason to pull with Siphon Strength when you're level 9 and Disease Cloud is the only real aggro spell you have: If you pull with DC, you're building virtually no aggro and it's on cooldown for a crucial ~6 seconds while other folks get aggro and you can't do much of anything about it. Use a throwaway spell (or an arrow) first then follow up with Disease Cloud. That'll build you far more hate. Or you can tell the local Shaman to pull with slow.


This. That's basically it. Disease cloud is crazy aggro. Shadow Vortex is great aggro once you get it, and you should cast it on every mezzed mob that you're about to attack. Hit em with some shadow vortex, taunt, hit em with that disease cloud.

I think it's better to use Taunt first. Taunt does nothing if you already have aggro. Using it first gives you a better threat lead when it works and is no difference if it fails.

Danth

[Tecmos Deception]

Or you can tell the local Shaman to pull with slow.

This! When I play Tecmos in groups I often pull things with tash on purpose because it's the easiest way to get tash on a mob without getting aggro or having to wait until everyone else already has cast their MR spells!

[Kender]

bow shot between the eyes then DC. siphon just uses up mana you need for DC in a chain pulling grp (unless you got bard or enchanter in which case go crazy)

[thieros]

pull with disease cloud, spam again when mob lands or as soon as recast is available, while tanking cycle mezzed merbs and drop a shadow vortex on em once. finish your mob, select a new target. Taunt, disease cloud, engage. rinse repeat for hourssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss ssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss ssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss ssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss ssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss ssssssssssssssss then youll be 60 doing the same steps above in a much more intense and awesome manner

[Holey]

i dont think ive ever lost aggro ever
thanks disease cloud

given them mobs hivs :P:

[Raavak]

Disease Cloud ftw. SK's have it pretty easy that way.

[captnamazing]

Nonsense, if you're a hybrid tank, then aggro management is YOUR job. That's the fun in playing one. If you aren't teaching your damage-dealers horrible habits that'll get them killed the next time they group with a Warrior, you're not trying hard enough!


lmfao.. so true.

[Nlaar]

Many people have mentioned this but it could easily be overlooked... before engaging a MEZZED mob, one should TAUNT it once or twice. Taunt will not break mezz and when successful will put you higher on the aggro list than the enchanter, ie prevent the mob from bee lining straight to your squishy friend when mez is broken.

Thus chain of events:
Finish current mob.
Stand in front of mezzed mob.
Hit Taunt (once or twice).
Engage mob (usually DC or Shadow Vortex).
Make the assist call.

[Swish]

Many people have mentioned this but it could easily be overlooked... before engaging a MEZZED mob, one should TAUNT it once or twice. Taunt will not break mezz and when successful will put you higher on the aggro list than the enchanter, ie prevent the mob from bee lining straight to your squishy friend when mez is broken.

Thus chain of events:
Finish current mob.
Stand in front of mezzed mob.
Hit Taunt (once or twice).
Engage mob (usually DC or Shadow Vortex).
Make the assist call.

A good enchanter knows when they've generated a ton of hate on a mob and keeps it rooted. He'd be unlucky to have it break on a disease cloud and still have aggro :p

[Dumesh Uhl'Belk]

Many people have mentioned this but it could easily be overlooked... before engaging a MEZZED mob, one should TAUNT it once or twice. Taunt will not break mezz and when successful will put you higher on the aggro list than the enchanter, ie prevent the mob from bee lining straight to your squishy friend when mez is broken.

Thus chain of events:
Finish current mob.
Stand in front of mezzed mob.
Hit Taunt (once or twice).
Engage mob (usually DC or Shadow Vortex).
Make the assist call.You can use several shadow vortexes if you want since it deals no damage. In fact, if you have a solid aggro lock on your current target (and you should, you're a SK after all) then you can target the mezzed mob and throw a shadow vortex 1-3 times and taunt (if you are standing close enough) before the current target is dead. Just make sure to toggle auto attack off if you are standing close by.

Also, pay attention. Many types of mobs will let you know when you've been successful in taunting by saying something to you. In those cases, you know when to break mez.

[Nlaar]

You can use several shadow vortexes if you want since it deals no damage. In fact, if you have a solid aggro lock on your current target (and you should, you're a SK after all) then you can target the mezzed mob and throw a shadow vortex 1-3 times and taunt (if you are standing close enough) before the current target is dead. Just make sure to toggle auto attack off if you are standing close by.

Also, pay attention. Many types of mobs will let you know when you've been successful in taunting by saying something to you. In those cases, you know when to break mez.

One of the greats has spoken!

[big mouth chew]

u guys know you're tellin a level 9 about how to use a level 39 spell? stop tryin to complicate it imo

spam disease cloud your group will thank you, nameen

[SamwiseRed]

1) spam disease cloud
2) ????
3) profit

chewie layin down the facts. how did this thread not end on post #2?

[Dumesh Uhl'Belk]

chewie layin down the facts. how did this thread not end on post #2?


In some groups you can get away with the bare minimum (http://youtu.be/U5YClmS3umk), but I prefer to wear more.

[Jimjam]

Many people have mentioned this but it could easily be overlooked... before engaging a MEZZED mob, one should TAUNT it once or twice. Taunt will not break mezz and when successful will put you higher on the aggro list than the enchanter, ie prevent the mob from bee lining straight to your squishy friend when mez is broken.

Thus chain of events:
Finish current mob.
Stand in front of mezzed mob.
Hit Taunt (once or twice).
Engage mob (usually DC or Shadow Vortex).
Make the assist call.

imho Mezzed mobs should be rooted anyway. The unmezzed won't run at low hp if a mezzed xp mob is rooted. Also if taunts fail the root is a good safety net for the enchanter.

[Nlaar]

imho Mezzed mobs should be rooted anyway. The unmezzed won't run at low hp if a mezzed xp mob is rooted. Also if taunts fail the root is a good safety net for the enchanter.

Sure in an ideal world where there is sufficient mana to be rooting all mezzed mobs and that other melees know about root + proximity aggro, that root doesn't randomly break, that the mob isn't pushed up against a wall so that rogues can't get behind it, etc. :)

[Hitpoint]

1) spam disease cloud
2) clinging darkness between DCs
3) ????
4) profit

Fixed.

Also pre-taunt mezed mobs. Can hit them with non damaging agro like shadow vortex. Your enchanter never needs to take damage.

[Splorf22]

1. Reroll Warrior

[Nlaar]

1. Reroll Warrior

I have an ogre warrior alt. When comparing raw tanking power / survivability against my DE SK, the difference class/race makes is depressing.

[Dumesh Uhl'Belk]

In classic, the difference was minimal in impact, if not in raw numbers. I tanked everything in classic at level 50, CT, Inny, Nag, Vox, even Spiroc Lord.

In kunark it makes more of a difference, but many things can still be done without defensive or evasive (not that you should in many cases, but you could) I do much more raid tanking on my warrior than sk these days.

In Velious, 99% of the time it's warriors only for raid tanking, but SKs can still do some fun things involving pulling, offtanking, add management, and CR.

In all time periods, SKs are better at soloing, and are fantastic as group tanks. It takes a lot of gear and patience to solo effectively as a warrior post 50 (fungi+ToD+good haste at a minimum).

No shame in being a SK, just know your limits... and by that, I mean, be creative to find out what can be done alone, in groups, and in raids. Good players of any class create many opportunities to contribute.

[Nlaar]

Good players of any class create many opportunities to contribute.

This 1000x.

[Tuljin]

if eq were left up to the min/maxers we'd only have war, enc, and cle as class choices - now that wouldn't be very fun now would it? :P

[Trexid]

I have an ogre warrior alt. When comparing raw tanking power / survivability against my DE SK, the difference class/race makes is depressing.

Does this translate to "I wish I would have rolled an Ogre SK" ? Or are you happy with your DE?

[chu]

at the end of the day, all that really matters is how good you look in ec tunnel tho AMIRITE

[Danth]

While I'm not a DE, I have a 60 Human SK and I'm entirely satisfied with it. While there are things a Warrior can tank that a SK cannot, I do not believe there is a single mob in the game that an Ogre SK can tank that a Human or DE or Erudite SK can't. The big races do have a stat advantage, but in the long run it's not a game breaker, and for my specific needs (sporadic and generally limited playtime) the lower experience requirement of the Human was a significant plus.

Warrior vs hybrid tanks is an argument as old as EQ. Make a Warrior if you want to main tank high-end bosses. Make the hybrid if you want to be a better tank against pretty much everything else. I figure the two sorts of tanks are suited to different kinds of players. For my part I can't stand playing Warriors.

Danth

[Nlaar]

Does this translate to "I wish I would have rolled an Ogre SK" ? Or are you happy with your DE?

I love my DE SK. Had I known then what I know now about race would I still have picked DE? Probably not.

Without spending any allocation points, starting STA:
Ogre 127
DE 70
DIFF 57

At level 60, 57 STA ~ 342hp (I think 1sta = almsot 6hp I can't quite remember). It is disgusting how much pp I have spent to gain just 20 extra hps in a slot. Combine that info with being able to cast FD while being attacked by 3+ mobs due to frontal stun immunity and one can start to make a compelling case for ogre. The downside would be that you would look like Myuharin. :)

[Shaakglith12194]

at the end of the day, all that really matters is how good you look in ec tunnel tho AMIRITE

Damn straight. Old school troll model in full Skyshrine, with custom velious helm, and Narandi's Lance/Primal 2hp/Epic, is just the most badass looking character in the game. Period. Swamp brothers represent!

[Trexid]

Damn straight. Old school troll model in full Skyshrine, with custom velious helm, and Narandi's Lance/Primal 2hp/Epic, is just the most badass looking character in the game. Period. Swamp brothers represent!

I ended up rolling a Troll SK last night. Excited to start playing him.

[vouss]

clinging darkness between DC's if you want to med inbetween kills and be hinder the group, otherwise.. just spam DC

[SamwiseRed]

if spamming DC cant hold agro someone is doing something wrong. like salem said above, no need to cast CD unless its a runner. you are just wasting mana.

[Xer0]

i dont think ive ever lost aggro ever
thanks disease cloud

qft. only time I have trouble is against extremely well geared rogues, or in situations with tons of adds, the mez breakage generally has high aggro-- this becomes a problem because disease cloud is a dot and im pretty sure dot's break a mez-- so I save my taunt and bash for this moment-- at high levels im finding I get a lot more bash stuns...