Maestro Lockouts, P99 Raid.php, and Suspensions

[Yaolin]

1. If "A-Team" had FTE and was awarded the kill/loots will they be receiving a lock-out for Maestro?

2. If "A-Team" is awarded the kill/loots then I assume "Lord Bob" would be replaced by "A-Team" on raid.php?

3. Will a suspension be handed down or has one already been handed out already?

Thanks,

[arsenalpow]

So I actually asked Sirken about this last night. He said that the raid page is squarely in Rogean/Bogs lane. If A-Team would be replaced on that list it would have to be done manually by one of them.

I heard nothing about suspensions though. Seems unlikely though otherwise it would have been implemented last night.

[Yaolin]

Alrighty

[Striiker]

I think it fitting to have Sirken speak up here to let us all know what the outcome is. If there is no suspension coming as a result of the blatant KS, then that sets a precedent for the same guild (and others) to pull the same thing in the future. Stepping down hard would go a long way to setting the line and enforcing it and would keep all guilds inline.

This raid forum is meant not only for the raid guilds to converse in an open forum about concerns and questions around raiding but also as a means for staff to weigh in on issues currently being discussed. We would all love to have Sirken's direct input in this forum so we all know what policy is and what is acceptable and isn't.

[Splorf22]

I heard nothing about suspensions though. Seems unlikely though otherwise it would have been implemented last night.

Sirken said he was going to give everyone a bit to get their evidence together.

Despite the fact that Bob spent all day dropping stuff on us, I doubt anyone will be suspended for training; it's Hate/Fear after all and its very difficult to prove stuff. And since I am now monking it up, I don't totally hate that policy.

However I would be pretty surprised if Bob doesn't eat a raid suspension for attempting to take our pull. Jetli's tag of Maestro was a clear and intentional rules violation.

Also with the R rotation in place the lockouts don't really matter that much anyway.

[arsenalpow]

Making camp at the fountain is kind of a death wish though lol, unless the train was blatant as fuck I'd assume that there would be no punishment in that regard.

The killing of a mob that you don't have FTE on is definitely a raid rule violation though. That's pretty cut and dry.

[phiren]

I'm not really confused by the language below.

Play Nice Policy


Intentional training will be severely disciplined.
Guilds are encouraged to work out disputes among themselves before involving the staff.
All raid mobs provide an "FTE Shout" that show what guild has engaged. Kill stealing will be severely disciplined.
Guilds may not have any more than two representatives present at a raid spawn location.
To encourage competitive racing, guilds may not camp players out in the vicinity of raid targets.
Invulnerability spells used on engagement may only be for mechanic strategies, and may not be used to stall engagement.

[Sirken]

3. Will a suspension be handed down or has one already been handed out already?Thanks,
I heard nothing about suspensions though. Seems unlikely though otherwise it would have been implemented last night.
I think it fitting to have Sirken speak up here to let us all know what the outcome is. If there is no suspension coming as a result of the blatant KS, then that sets a precedent for the same guild (and others) to pull the same thing in the future.

you guys know perfectly well by now, we do not discuss player discipline publicly. all issues should try to be worked out yourselves before involving the CSR staff. if thats not possible, then the players need to submit all evidence into a single petition for staff review.

<3
Sirks

[Powtle]

Raid suspensions are announced publicly though: TMO one, and BDA one (http://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=136235) (maybe not the IB/FE one, now I think of it)

Seems there is no raid suspension for this KS so.

[Ambrotos]

Those announcements set new precedents that either directly involved new rules/understanding, and the server integrity on a huge numbers aspect. People/guilds being dumb/bad and being suspended in game will only be known to them. This instance was just the typical dumb thing and not a game changer. Otherwise I would love to spend all day saying who we have suspended for breaking rules.

[Powtle]

Thank you for the clarifications :)

[Striiker]

I do think that given the heightened tensions on raid target attempts, it would serve the server better to inform the raiding community of such suspensions / punishments so that we are all aware of the consequences of doing such things. It establishes a standard by which all will be dealt with in similar circumstances and is thus a deterrent.

This is very different from Player-x KSing Player-y at a Frenzied Ghoul camp. A guild blatantly KSing another guild on a raid target is a high visibility; public event and so the punishment should also be visible to at a minimum, those involved (on both sides) who can choose to share the outcome with the rest of the server, and at best to the rest of the server.

Keeping things secret for such publicly shamed acts only ramps up suspicions of inconsistent enforcement of server rules.

[bktroost]

I do think that given the heightened tensions on raid target attempts, it would serve the server better to inform the raiding community of such suspensions / punishments so that we are all aware of the consequences of doing such things. It establishes a standard by which all will be dealt with in similar circumstances and is thus a deterrent.

This is very different from Player-x KSing Player-y at a Frenzied Ghoul camp. A guild blatantly KSing another guild on a raid target is a high visibility; public event and so the punishment should also be visible to at a minimum, those involved (on both sides) who can choose to share the outcome with the rest of the server, and at best to the rest of the server.

Keeping things secret for such publicly shamed acts only ramps up suspicions of inconsistent enforcement of server rules.

+1

They did this and they got caught. If its not really punishable then... why not everyone do it with the hope of not getting caught? There's no punishment and you get another shot at loot if you miss the FTE.

I would never do this in a million years, but that is the mentality some people might be (I'm sure they ARE) having.

[Striiker]

I will state that had the server staff been more open about punishments being handed out for different violations that the server would have fewer problems (both at a guild level and individually). BDA's raid suspension put the fear into most if not all raiding guilds (as I said, Taken made great efforts to comply). It showed an example of the line not to be crossed and we saw the consequences. If the staff would share more of the consequences, people / guilds would think twice before pushing the envelope and walking the edge of a rule.

This is not as a focus on "shaming people" although that is a deterrent. It's more about transparency, clarity and consistency. Everyone will learn from the mistakes and missteps of others and the environment will improve.