npc run speed.

[Des]

couldnt find any posts on this.. why are the run speeds of NPCs so fast?

[Bigcountry23]

Did you try typing your subject into the search field?

http://www.project1999.org/forums/search.php?searchid=14467

This is the result you want to read (about half way down, with the title "Run Speed") http://www.project1999.org/forums/showthread.php?t=228&highlight=speed

Aelowind's response "We'll be able to slow down mobs once someone fixes the fact that if they are slowed down even .01 they'll never be able to catch you. Classically; you could only outrun mobs by strafing or with sow/jboots/selos."

[Des]

yes i typed in "run speed"

[douglas1999]

The only thing that's too fast is the speed at which un-aggroed mobs roam, which for the most part makes no difference to anyone. Once they're chasing you it's exactly the same as it was in classic EQ (you can escape them with sow, but generally can't without it). If you jump that will give you a little extra distance. Strafe running did not always work depending on the mob in question.

[Des]

I'm pretty sure they are much faster than the classic EQ when chasing you.

At what point do you slow down from being attacked? 25% or lower?

I'm having griffins out run me with sow on.

[Onadan]

The only thing that's too fast is the speed at which un-aggroed mobs roam, which for the most part makes no difference to anyone. Once they're chasing you it's exactly the same as it was in classic EQ (you can escape them with sow, but generally can't without it). If you jump that will give you a little extra distance. Strafe running did not always work depending on the mob in question.

No. You're wrong.

What if its an issue w/ the PC run speed and not NPC? Has anyone fiddled w/ the PC movement modifier?

[Naerron]

oddly enough i found that the higher lvl i was the easier it was to outrun mobs, i started being able to outrun them around lvl 20.

[Hasbinbad]

Run speeds are perfect.
Normal running away from mob = death.
Strafe running away from mob = safety.
Every time (unless it's a brownie or other intentionally fast mob). If you're having problems, you're doing it wrong.

[Onadan]

Man, they aren't. You should be running at the same speeds of mobs w/ out sow. They should not be catching up to you and plowing you. This is why jumping was nice, it gave you extra distance. Did you even play live? How can you not remember this?

[Witness]

Man, they aren't. You should be running at the same speeds of mobs w/ out sow. They should not be catching up to you and plowing you. This is why jumping was nice, it gave you extra distance. Did you even play live? How can you not remember this?

Truth.

[guineapig]

I remember being having to jump while running until I ran out of stamina (or endurance or whatever it was at the time). That would give me just enough distance to make it to a zone line while only being hit once or twice.

It should be the same (but in reverse) as when you are auto-following somebody. You maintain the same distance but when you hit jump repeatedly you close the gap a little bit.

[Takshaka]

Man, they aren't. You should be running at the same speeds of mobs w/ out sow. They should not be catching up to you and plowing you. This is why jumping was nice, it gave you extra distance. Did you even play live? How can you not remember this?

No, the only way to escape without sow was to strafe run (run diagonally). Most mobs are set to run slightly faster than PC run speed so that they can catch up, hit you, then catch up again. If you strafe run you will still get hit only occasionally.

As for certain mobs like Griffins, werewolfs, etc., they run much faster than PC run speed by default and in cases of lower level sow they will catch up to you. Remember, low level sow/Selo's != high level sow/Selo's.

I have no idea how it is currently on live, or how it was after 2001 as I only played up until around may of 2001. However, the way it was when I played from 05/1999 up until I quit is pretty much the same as it is on this server. I still remember very clearly the joy that I had when I discovered strafe running and the subsequent fewer number of deaths.

[Malrubius]

Takshaka is right. Most mobs caught you in classic (could outrun you). I believe a very few might have only run about the same speed as you.

Particularly at lower levels, mobs *would*, definitely, always, catch you. I remember being whacked in the back repeatedly as I ran to the guards. Sometimes I did not make it to the guards alive. We definitely could NOT outrun stuff very often.


They changed this in 2004-ish? so that you could run the same speed as most stuff at low levels up until level 10 or so. Maybe you could even outrun stuff slightly until level 10 or so. Maybe at later levels too - I don't know what it's like on live today.

I think it was a slight speed buff that PCs got (or a slight speed nerf that all mobs got) that made PCs and NPCs run the same speed, or PCs even a little faster. This was not documented and not in the patch notes (they never put stuff like this in the patch notes) - but it was definitely noticed by all and written about elsewhere at the time. I think this is what you are remembering, Onadan. It sounds like it is still this way on live.


Assuming PC and NPC are unbuffed, then the classic behavior that I recall is...

1 - There are some faster mobs and slower mobs, although *most* move at a single "almost universal" NPC speed.

2 - PCs have the same base run speed for their entire lives (unbuffed and unencumbered). All races and classes are the same. You run the same speed at L1 as at L60.

3 - You should not be able to outrun many, if any, mobs (unless you're strafing or something - in which case you might be able to outrun (or at least maintain a lead on) *some* mobs).

4 - You should be able to outrun some stuff - JUST BARELY - if using strafing or jumping (esp. over very hilly terrain) or with Lev (esp. over very hilly terrain).

[Hasbinbad]

Man, they aren't. You should be running at the same speeds of mobs w/ out sow. They should not be catching up to you and plowing you. This is why jumping was nice, it gave you extra distance. Did you even play live? How can you not remember this?
Yes I do remember live, and what I remember is dying every time i tried to get away from a mob without exception until I learned how to strafe run.

[Hasbinbad]

I still remember very clearly the joy that I had when I discovered strafe running and the subsequent fewer number of deaths.

This.

[Finawin]

Mobs are faster. There is no way anyone with an iota of memory or intelligence would try to refute this.

Strafe running allowed you to gain a very slight lead. Now sometimes it barely even does that, and in most cases, doesn't.

Mobs move significantly faster. This coupled with a longer melee range is quite problematic.

This is all moot because it can't really be fixed. So there's no use to a bunch of people who were very likely kids when they played in 1999 (or didn't at all!) claiming they remember something that never happened.

[nilbog]

This is all moot because it can't really be fixed. So there's no use to a bunch of people who were very likely kids when they played in 1999 (or didn't at all!) claiming they remember something that never happened.

The speed itself... eh. I'm not 100% sure. There is some kink within the titanium client vs. the 2004/05 (?) npc runspeed change vs. what we remember from 1999 vs. original/emu melee hit box vs. graphical display.

It is very noticable as certain npcs visually appear to the walking *way* too fast. I hope a solution can be found for the issue.. as I'm sure it deters some newbies.

I was there, I remember :P

This bitch killed me constantly trying to level a paladin, solo, in qeynos hills. First emarr holly windstalker raid.. she taught me all about runspeed.

http://i48.tinypic.com/dmffyr.jpg

[Danth]

Spectres, for example, were among the rare few types of monsters which moved so slowly that a person could outrun them (barely) at normal run speed. Most monsters did outrun the player slightly.

I figure strafe running was something of an unintended exploit that was never fixed and turned into a sort of feature over time. Strafe running works quite nicely on P1999; I can use it to train mobs across entire zones whilst only receiving a few hits.

Although many mobs quite obviously walk too fast, in practice things usually work out about right, except maybe to some kiters. As such this is *mostly* a cosmetic issue, although I absolutely feel for said kiting classes (bards, etc) who have a rough time due to this issue. That being said, it's probably the most blatant cosmetic issue on the server--immediately apparent within a minute or so to every new player who logs on. With that in mind we can continue to expect threads on the subject until a better fix is found.

Danth

[Finawin]

The speed itself... eh. I'm not 100% sure. There is some kink within the titanium client vs. the 2004/05 (?) npc runspeed change vs. what we remember from 1999 vs. original/emu melee hit box vs. graphical display.

It is very noticable as certain npcs visually appear to the walking *way* too fast. I hope a solution can be found for the issue.. as I'm sure it deters some newbies.

I was there, I remember :P

This bitch killed me constantly trying to level a paladin, solo, in qeynos hills. First emarr holly windstalker raid.. she taught me all about runspeed.

Well my point wasn't really directed towards you, more in support of, really.

We know the runspeed is off in a lot of cases, fine in some, and WAY off on some...just that it's not really a high priority to fix it. (If that's even possible.)

People claiming mobs' runspeed are fine, are wrong.

[seveian]

if (mob.aggrolist.size == 0)
runspeed = SLOWER_THAN_SOW_FFS;
else
runspeed = do_it_the_way_it_currently_is;


- the code guru

[Cubehacker]

NPC roam speed seems to be a bit on the quick side. They "walk" almost as fast as we "run". Their actual agro run speed seems to be just fine, but as they roam the zones they move maybe 10-20% too fast

[Shaun421]

I have only been playing on this server for a few days, and haven't played EQ for several years, but I would agree with those who are saying that in Classic EQ you could not outrun a mob without hopping or strafing.

However, to those who are saying that mobs "must be" running faster because the strafing doesn't work, I think that may be an issue to some wonky pathing. Now like I said, I've only been on this server for a few days but my hours spent in Crushbone shown me some unusally intelligent and potentially buggy behavior by mobs chasing people. Often times an agro'd mob will run straight to the target regardless of terrain, vaulting moats, passing through trees and walls, etc.

Maybe my memory is just not that good but I don't recall this from Classic Live servers.

[Finawin]

That is a pathing issue that is separate from the runspeed issue entirely. It's not just imagined though. Pathing isn't as it is on live. It would be damned near impossible to replicate that.

[RyoGTO]

Man, they aren't. You should be running at the same speeds of mobs w/ out sow. They should not be catching up to you and plowing you. This is why jumping was nice, it gave you extra distance. Did you even play live? How can you not remember this?

Yeah, exactly, I am seriously seeing mobs run with faster than SoW speeds with snare. Does that mean its completely impossible to Kite on this server? Orcs in CB snared are running at full speed, if not faster, and Level 1 Decaying skeletons in BBM catching up to Selo's with a drum.

[unfinished91]

I always remember being able to run from stuff on foot. I think something should be changed

http://img.peoplesprimary.com/?id=78378213&name=Jeff&u=sloth&file=forumsig.jpg

[Scrooge]

What really sucks about this is the fact that when a mob is under 20%, it can run as if its still 100% and sow'd lol...I had a seafury cyclops after me with 2% health, and it took me a minute of kiting just to make enough distance to root.

[theRaion]

Man, they aren't. You should be running at the same speeds of mobs w/ out sow. They should not be catching up to you and plowing you. This is why jumping was nice, it gave you extra distance. Did you even play live? How can you not remember this?

I remember this more than the alternative, which is not this.

[Derazor]

The bigger problem of this to me is the combat mechanics. You can kite in a much smaller space when mobs are not running as fast. Its not so much the getting hit in the back while running away for me. Its that overall, the mobs are moving quite a bit faster in general, and players are running the same speed. However, cast ranges and cast times havent changed, at least much, so the time you have to cast, land snares/roots/dots, ect is much reduced, especially when your working in a smaller space.

[Witness]

I would just like to say on live, jboots were an entirely viable option for wizards to quad kite with..now jboots are basically good for one thing..running away. The time it takes for jboots to distance you enough to cast a spell is significantly longer than it was on live.

[Hasbinbad]

OK Honestly, I never played a kiting class, so while run speeds may seem to work for getting away from mobs (its good), maybe it does need some tweaking to fix kiting.

I could see why people would be upset at this, and it should be fairly obvious if this is the case (plenty of people should be able to confirm this?).

[vageta31]

Mob run speed is absolutely faster than in classic live, and anyone who denies that must not have been around to experience it first hand. It's true that mobs run so fast that even if you get a lead it is very difficult to get a spell off before they reach you even if you cast at the absolute maximum range. It was never like this before. I kited Martar and Karg in Everfrost for a few levels and even with Sow I had to literally run halfway across the zone using the strafe method to gain enough lead to recast a spell.

It was definitely not this bad on classic live as I played from Beta onwards.

The other thing that makes this worse is that mobs seem to cut corners more on this emu server so they make up even more time. They cut through walls, rocks and a lot of other things in their way that you have to navigate around so they always take the fastest path.

Now knowing this the question is should it be fixed? There is no doubt in my mind that mob speed is faster but whether or not it has to be tweaked isn't our call. People are leveling just fine and at a faster rate than ever so no need to make it too easy. I'd just be happy to once and for all put it to rest so at least we can hear acknowledgment that mobspeed is indeed faster even if they don't plan on fixing it. Almost every new player on the server I've talked to says the same thing.. "Why are mobs running so fast on this server?". It's not like everyone is having the same false memory, it's pretty clear that old school players know full well that something is different.

[Ballerklein]

Maybe instead of trying to adjust the base speed for everyone, they can look into adjusting the effects of spells like sow and snare. just my 2 cents

[Witness]

It's true that mobs run so fast that even if you get a lead it is very difficult to get a spell off before they reach you even if you cast at the absolute maximum range. It was never like this before.

Changing effects of sow/snare will not change this, which is the true dilemma.

[Hasbinbad]

The thing that threw me off was people talking about not being able to get away from mobs.

In live, if you just ran at normal speed away from a pursuing mob = death.
In live, if you strafe run at normal speed away from a pursuing mob = life.

This is exactly the same as it functions here. I have been able to successfully get away from mobs using strafe run on this emu enough times to know that it works.

However, there is enough play between normal run speed and strafe run speed that something could still be amiss.

The issue is mob run speed, and it looks like it needs to be adjusted downwards a tiny bit. However, if the increments of adjustment possible are so large that if they adjust it down by one notch and people are suddenly able to get away from mobs at normal non-strafe runspeed, imho kiters have to get used to running larger circles and/or adapting where they can kite on this emu. It would be a much larger problem if people could just get away from pursuing mobs with autorun.

[guineapig]

The thing that threw me off was people talking about not being able to get away from mobs.

In live, if you just ran at normal speed away from a pursuing mob = death.
In live, if you strafe run at normal speed away from a pursuing mob = life.

This is exactly the same as it functions here. I have been able to successfully get away from mobs using strafe run on this emu enough times to know that it works.

However, there is enough play between normal run speed and strafe run speed that something could still be amiss.

The issue is mob run speed, and it looks like it needs to be adjusted downwards a tiny bit. However, if the increments of adjustment possible are so large that if they adjust it down by one notch and people are suddenly able to get away from mobs at normal non-strafe runspeed, imho kiters have to get used to running larger circles and/or adapting where they can kite on this emu. It would be a much larger problem if people could just get away from pursuing mobs with autorun.

I agree with this.

Unfortunately so many things were added to the game that by the time I quit EQLive nobody ran at normal run speed post lvl 25. So many classes had spells or illusions that effected run speed, people had jboots, run speed AA's, clickie items, potions, you name it.

I think that's clouding some people's memories of how things were on live. Those enhancements weren't just added to the game to decrease travel time. They were also added as survival tools for characters, and I think many have forgotten this. The main reason the strafe running glitch is common knowledge is because people HAD TO use it to survive certain situations.

[Finawin]

No, it isn't a clouded memory. Shit here runs faster than normal. It's been confirmed numerous times, over and over.

The issue is just not being able to fix it because of the increments involved in changing it are too great. One notch down makes the mobs too slow.

Strafe running is just barely fast enough as opposed to gaining a lead with it like you could before. Mob melee range is also GREATLY increased here and that exacerbates the problem.

[Faza]

Hey all,

Three more points I have not seen brought up:

(1) To the guy who complained about griffins: griffins could ALWAYS beat most sow. That was the bitch of it, they were always fast. Brings me to my next point:

(2) SOW gets "faster" the higher level the caster is. I expect this is common-enough knowledge (or was back in the day on live) but I'm repeating it here so as to bring some clarification to the "XYZ is faster than sow" discussion.

For example, at lvl 14, a druid with his own sow will not be able to outrun a griff in the karanas - that's why you better snare (and that's griffawns and griffennes, etc, not actual griffens). If you get a sow from a max-lvl dru/shm/rng, you can really haul ass.

Ditto for selo's - higher bard, higher song (and the drum mod and the perc. skill matter too).

And (3) AGI affects your runspeed. At least, it does on classic. Try it out: race a 70 AGI ogre with a 115 AGI woodelf. The woodelf will win everytime. It's a tiny difference, but it IS there.

Test it for yourself if you don't believe me.

[Erasong]

The thing that threw me off was people talking about not being able to get away from mobs.

In live, if you just ran at normal speed away from a pursuing mob = death.
In live, if you strafe run at normal speed away from a pursuing mob = life.

This is exactly the same as it functions here. I have been able to successfully get away from mobs using strafe run on this emu enough times to know that it works.

However, there is enough play between normal run speed and strafe run speed that something could still be amiss.

The issue is mob run speed, and it looks like it needs to be adjusted downwards a tiny bit. However, if the increments of adjustment possible are so large that if they adjust it down by one notch and people are suddenly able to get away from mobs at normal non-strafe runspeed, imho kiters have to get used to running larger circles and/or adapting where they can kite on this emu. It would be a much larger problem if people could just get away from pursuing mobs with autorun.

this is 100% true. The only difference ive noticed in mob run speed has been snared mob run speed and SoW'ed mob run speed. it seems that no matter what level the mob caster its always max sow.. and that sow run speed is not removed and then the % snare is applied but rather the sow stays on and THEN the snare % is applied. engulfing and dooming darknessed mobs are flying after me but i havent noticed much difference in mobs unsnared.