Magician or necro?

[Darkwinter]

Another thread I started got me re-thinking the class I will choose. So I wanted to start a new thread on that subject, so it'll show up nicely for future searches if others have the same question.

The big question = For pet class, Magician or necro?

My research so far says:

Necros might have more survivability if the fight goes bad (can fear and run, FD). Necros would need a little room if they are fear kiting. Necros are a powerful solo class.

Mages seem to have strong pets, and can tank a monster on the spot without kiting around. Mages are wanted more in groups (I think), but still good soloers (I think).

Both have to deal with pet stealing XP over 50% damage.

Which would you choose from these two, and why? I can see benefits from both, but I don't know how they play in P99 in higher levels. I do want to raid some day, so are mages better for raids?

[Trelaboon]

Really depends on what you want.

Necro has more survivability and is a better exp grinder, but it's also a lot more complex. Mages really just send in pet/med and then stand up to nuke every now and again. If they're soloing they have to chain pets but otherwise it's a pretty simple class

[Gaxx]

If you want to be a bad ass and actually be useful, go necro. Mages are too simple and boring.

This is just my opinion.

[toolshed]

Well the current meta for magicians is to chain-summon their pet because the pet heals are so inefficient, so that kind of gives you a feel for the magician class as it stands.

If you want to be dps and summon food/water for your groups, I would go mage. If you want to support heals, CC, dps, or have the best mana regen in the game, I would go necro.

I'm currently playing a necro on p99 (first time with the class) and I love it. I used to play a bard so the utility of a necro is really fun for me - I love wearing the hat of support healer and CCer at the same time. I also love being able to solo extremely efficiently.

The only downside to a pet class (and it is worth taking note of) is having to deal with pets. Pets can have extremely irritating pathing (read: pulls entire mob after falling through the floor on a dungeon) and extremely irritating AI (will not stop attacking a mob you are trying to mez, etc etc). 90% of the time they are fine, but those 10% can be annoying for you and your group.

PS - go Iksar. Long live the brotherhood of scales

[webrunner5]

I have both and when I am lazy, which I seem to be more lately, I play my Mage. But a Necro is WAY WAY more powerful what they can do than a Mage hands down. Big time. There is nothing spells wise a necro does not get in this game but sow and ports. And with J Boots that only leaves one line of spells they don't get. :p

They are in the top tier of classes that are best for soloing top loot. Now as to grouping you will do better as a Mage than a Necro for getting them. They both are cheap classes and fun classes to play but both, to me, can get boring as hell sort of quick doing the same thing over and over again. :(

[SamwiseRed]

Well the current meta for magicians is to chain-summon their pet because the pet heals are so inefficient, so that kind of gives you a feel for the magician class as it stands.

If you want to be dps and summon food/water for your groups, I would go mage. If you want to support heals, CC, dps, or have the best mana regen in the game, I would go necro.

I'm currently playing a necro on p99 (first time with the class) and I love it. I used to play a bard so the utility of a necro is really fun for me - I love wearing the hat of support healer and CCer at the same time. I also love being able to solo extremely efficiently.

The only downside to a pet class (and it is worth taking note of) is having to deal with pets. Pets can have extremely irritating pathing (read: pulls entire mob after falling through the floor on a dungeon) and extremely irritating AI (will not stop attacking a mob you are trying to mez, etc etc). 90% of the time they are fine, but those 10% can be annoying for you and your group.

PS - go Iksar. Long live the brotherhood of scales

... mages also get the best ds in the game (has FR on it too and its a group buff.) one of two classes that can Malo, can CC with earth pet, can stun with air pet to mitigate damage and/or interrupt casters. summons not just food and water but throwing daggers, arrows, 10 slot 100% weight reduc bags, EB items, pet toys, the works. CoH is huge and is not just for getting group members too you. lots of tricks with it as it erases agro. most powerful epic in game (also hardest to get.) pets immune to fear in velious, not sure when necro gets their fear immunity on the spectre pet (may already be the case.) gets monster summoning, one of the most fun spells in the game. speaking of fun spells bristlebanes bundle summons alcohol, spin the bottle, fireworks, and cake. i guess i should mention mod rod because mod rod is awesome. and ultimately can out dps a necro any day of the week (twice on sunday) on single target mobs. mages can also do something in raids other than twitch cleric.

oh there is more. mage owns. as far as chain summoning pets? only a moron would waste time doing that. if you want the best xp then duo with a necro or druid. mage soloing is just fail as mages have the ability to compliment almost every class.

all that being said, id go necro if you have social anxiety or plan to be soloing most of the time.

[SamwiseRed]

Before a bluebie chimes in with, "but necromancer epic more rare/harder to get" necromancer epuc sucks so naw

[jolanar]

If you foresee yourself spending the majority of your time soloing then definitely pick a necro.

If you plan to do mostly grouping then I would go with mage personally. Grouping is where mages really shine for reasons already stated.

Yes, necros can do fine in groups and yes mages can solo etc etc.

[Conscript]

Do you want to Fear Kite or Pet Tank?

Do you want to summon corpses or armor / weapons?

Do you like zombies or elementals?

[Grombar]

Sorry but SK epic is the hardest to get, Mage one sucks and is tedious, but not that hard. (done both on live back in the day)

[Nagash]

Playing both at level 50+ (mage 52, necro 53):

Solo wise: both are great, when it comes to xp, I found my mage faster than my necro but this may have to do with my necro being an iksar. Overall a tie. When it comes to cash target, the survivability of the necro gives them an edge.

In group, it depends what you want to do: prefer being a support class with some dps thrown in, go necro, prefer being on the offensive, go with mage. Both have a genuine place in group although few necro know how to play their class in group giving us a bad rep. However I can tell you that anyone I grouped with on my necro will happily have me again grouping with them and I think I still have a lot to learn on that front.

[Poosammich]

I truly tried to play something else when I came to P99.... I gave it about 9 lvls, and I just had to have my Necro back. Its all I played in live, but I was a forehead, and am now a lizard. Ikky Necro all the way!

[Darkwinter]

Playing both at level 50+ (mage 52, necro 53):

Solo wise: both are great, when it comes to xp, I found my mage faster than my necro but this may have to do with my necro being an iksar. Overall a tie. When it comes to cash target, the survivability of the necro gives them an edge.

In group, it depends what you want to do: prefer being a support class with some dps thrown in, go necro, prefer being on the offensive, go with mage. Both have a genuine place in group although few necro know how to play their class in group giving us a bad rep. However I can tell you that anyone I grouped with on my necro will happily have me again grouping with them and I think I still have a lot to learn on that front.

This is really good info! Thank you much.

How would you rate mana regen on the magician? Obviously necros have their own built-in mana regen, but in groups both are probably equal if there's a chanter around.

I would think soloing for a magician, I would need to stop by EC tunnel and pay for some clarity or something. Other than that, sitting on my caboose a lot :D

[Halius]

I can't speak much to necromancer (only have a level 10) but for Magician it is going to be a lot of sitting. But this could actually be a benefit to you when you get to a higher level, as you sit to med you can always have a character logged into red and play a different class (that's what I have been doing lately).

Unless you have a pocket chanter ready to hit you with clarity you will be medding a lot. One way to mitigate this is to only throw low level nukes at a mob once your pet gets them running but then pet will eat 50% exp and around level 25 or so pets begin to get overpowered by mobs so you will be using mana healing or chain summoning anyways.

As Samwise said, a good option is to find a healing duo partner so that you don't have to worry about pet dying and the 50% exp penalty is negated since you are in a group.

[NegaStoat]

Mana regen on the Magician is really, really slow. But you can cheat and plot out which mobs you want to go after at different levels and use the P1999 wiki to research them, especially their health values. With this you can plan how much spell damage you need to inflict while factoring in the Neutral damage delt from a damage shield on the pet so that you barely beat the pet out on doing over half, while using the least amount of mana.

Later, you can chain pet cast using Reclaim (either a spell or your focus item) on targets that make keeping your pet's health topped off not worth it. In my heart, I KNOW for a fact that the Necro is an overall stronger class. It's really hard to argue against that. But the Magician's effectiveness as a DPS class is absurdly good, and very relaxing to play in a group. A mage doesn't have to pull, or employ crowd control, or stare at health bars, and they don't have to overly stress melee damage aggro levels or do a lot of position dancing.

They park a pet at a good angle for pulling for when the tank has their engage point and facing set, they sit, and they /assist and blow shit up. And they won't be a Necro screaming in Velious about how none of their DoT's are working on Raid mobs. So they have that going for them.

[DarkwingDuck]

Ok, I'll chime in here, I have a lowbie necro and a 53 Mage. Both are awesome, I've always loved Mage and played epic on pvp live.(Mage epic is hardest and best epic in game)
But IF you're worried about your pet taking EXP you're doing it wrong. GET your Mage pet focus items that beef your pet up when u summon them, then once the mobs running.. Click your focus item (instant reclaim energy) finish it off with a lowbie nuke.. Or your burnt wood staff life me (333 dmg clickie) game over. The 49 fire pet is a beast and a major game changer, as fire pets self DS way better than any cast able DS in game, make fire pets your friend and let the mobs best themselves to death.

[Velerin]

They both can level solo pretty fast. Difference is necro can do a lot more things and styles.
The most efficient and fastest mage solo tactic is actually pretty boring (but also relaxing).
Find lowest single pull blue cons possible (as NegaStoat said above) that focused fire pet can solo. Sit and med, when mob gets really low on health reclaim pet (will get amount of mana back based on health, if targeting right mobs could be >50%), cast low level nuke for full exp (if nuke doesn't quite finish the mob, don't nuke again unless its running far. Just summon a new pet to finish it off if life left<your nuke damage)
Repeat. You'll always be good on mana and have continuous pulls.

[Ravager]

Necros are a one-man-group and have many more options for mobs to kill because faction is rarely an issue. Also, who would even want to be in the same class as Navir?

[Rinarch]

I played an Iksar Necro to 35 then switched to a mage which just dinged 20 last night so here is my experience playing both classes.

It should be noted that I highly enjoy grouping, yes I know I picked solo classes but they both offer benefits to a group and I enjoy utilizing that aspect of the classes more so then soloing.

As a necro, Soloing was more taxing in terms of play style as well as resist begin to cause much more problems. Mob resisting darkness snare would add a good amount of time to the kill rate, same with fear resists. As I stated I will always chose to group over soloing, even if the xp is slower... As a necro I was FORCED to solo, people do not want to group with necros, simple as that. Sad fact is too many necros play the class exactly the same in a group situation and that gives us a bad rap. I loved playing my necro in groups, the support you give can truly speed up any group composition if you know what your doing and the ability to basically become a battery for the group can really push a sub par group into a killing machine.

Cleric running out of mana? take over spot healing and dump some mana his way

Have a camp with a mix of weak/strong mobs, you heal the tank during weak mobs and let the healer handle the hard hitting stuff

Casters? ST them to stop heals/nukes

All the above taken care of... pump the wizard full of mana and let him rain hellfire down on the mobs

the list goes on and on, a well played necro in a group is truly an asset. The problem is you will hardly ever get a chance to show that side of the class as people see necro LFG and the "lawl go solo nub" spam starts flowing.

I could also be a lot more reckless with my necro cause I had FD and ST to fall back on, so I would try more things and harder pulls without fully thinking them through and I enjoyed playing the class more as a "I'll figure it out what to do in XXX situation should it arise" Overall it's a fun class, I still have the naked character which I do plan to re gear and play with once I find a good group of people that know I can play the game and will openly invite me into groups.

As a mage, never had trouble finding a group, ever... Your role in the group is much more DPS focused, with a small side role of support in terms of summoning throwing daggers/arrows for pullers, Damage shielding the tank, and using pet to help with mez breaks/offtanking mobs hitting the healer before tank can pick them up. Since you have a much more simple role in groups compared to necros you should be expected to control your pet better and use it to more full of an advantage IE: buff it, equip it etc. As a mage in a group you can expect to:

Summon supplies as people need, often times I do a supply check ever hour or so.

Learn when to nuke casters. especially healing mobs, to cause them to run instead of starting a heal spell, this is big if you use the water pet in groups like I do for the increased DPS. Note you do have the air pet stun if the majority of pulls will involve casters its much better to use the air pet for the stun.

Keep up damage shield on the tank, it surprises me how many mages seem to forget this aspect of the class.

It's a much more simple role in grouping but it does have a skill aspect to it and the skills transfer fairly well into playing a wizard if you decide to make one down the line. Necro in a group is more akin to a bard(which I also have a level 20 bard) in a group it's a very active playstyle that can get tiresome and groups can quickly overload you with responsibility if they are lacking in too many departments. You must be able to prioritize what the group needs the most from you on the fly and most the times in the worst of pulls your responsibilities and what is needed from you changes as the situation changes... You will not have enough spell gems to do everything you need to sometimes so spell choices change with the group/camp.

I love my necro and I love my mage, if the group situation wasn't what it was on this server I would probably have kept on playing my necro. But, if you want to play in groups and you don't have a good stable of friends that know you know how to play prepare to be turned down a lot as a necro. If you do decide to go necro and you do get in a group... PLEASE do us a favor and learn to play the class like it should be played in a group, it will go a long way in turning the stigma people have around!

[Darkwinter]

I love my necro and I love my mage, if the group situation wasn't what it was on this server I would probably have kept on playing my necro.

How is the group situation on blue? Is it pretty common to find other people at all level ranges?

I see about 900 people on for the past 2 nights, but are they all high level? If I can't find many groups, I will go necro for sure.

[DarkwingDuck]

I rarely play my 2 50+'s there are a few 20-30 I'm playin atm.. I'm pretty casual these days.
I'm playin on kunark at the moment, tons of people 20-30
Blueskin - 23 enchanter
Greacenthe - 22 wizard

[webrunner5]

I rarely run out of mana on my Mage because I try to pick the right level of DB mob to kill and let the Fire Pet on average do ALL the damage. I know you take a XP hit but a Fire pet can kill fast as hell so I don't see the need to sit and med for 8 minutes at a time. I hate that crap. And the XP is, I think, better than any other class in the game other than a Necro maybe. I think even better. They kill mobs fast. We are not talking a Paladin here lol.

I save my mana for when things go to crap, which they do on a Mage, because you have very little CC. Lets not sugar coat it, you have almost NO CC. I hardly ever use the Earth pet, but I must admit they have helped the agro out lately with the pets on the last few patches. So I suggest you keep enough mana at all times to gate, have a reasonable nuke memed, and maybe even enough to cast even a lower level pet to save your arse. Gate is your friend playing a Mage trust me. Learn how to bind in good spots or right at the ZL's.

[jolanar]

I rarely run out of mana on my Mage because I try to pick the right level of DB mob to kill and let the Fire Pet on average do ALL the damage. I know you take a XP hit but a Fire pet can kill fast as hell so I don't see the need to sit and med for 8 minutes at a time. I hate that crap. And the XP is, I think, better than any other class in the game other than a Necro maybe. I think even better. They kill mobs fast. We are not talking a Paladin here lol.

I save my mana for when things go to crap, which they do on a Mage, because you have very little CC. Lets not sugar coat it, you have almost NO CC. I hardly ever use the Earth pet, but I must admit they have helped the agro out lately with the pets on the last few patches. So I suggest you keep enough mana at all times to gate, have a reasonable nuke memed, and maybe even enough to cast even a lower level pet to save your arse. Gate is your friend playing a Mage trust me. Learn how to bind in good spots or right at the ZL's.

What level is your mage? Wouldn't the pet need time to recover HP if you aren't chain summoning?

[Halius]

Also, as a mage without Jboots. Learn to strafe run, it will save your life multiple times.

[Tuljin]

How is the group situation on blue? Is it pretty common to find other people at all level ranges?

I see about 900 people on for the past 2 nights, but are they all high level? If I can't find many groups, I will go necro for sure.

The group situation on Blue is that if you don't have an Epic Rogue or Fungi Monk you'll be hard up to find one.

You rarely see Necros grouped or LFG past level 50, and Mages are even more rare. People will not even let you into group because of the rampant class fanboyism on Blue. These days you either Monk/Rogue DPS your way to 60 (cause you get groups easy) or Chardok AOE a cleric or caster. Shamans mostly solo, Druids have the largest class population yet the lowest percentage of level 60s.

Having said that, many people who play Necro and Mage are awful at grouping and give them a bad name. Truth is lots of people are bad at EQ - you run into them all the time. A lot of people are mediocre or suck (and really don't give a shit) and a few people are good and fun to play with. It just takes a lot more knowledge of the game to contribute effectively to a group on a Mage or Necro than it does on a DPS class - 99% of Monks and Rogues just press 0 and faceroll, 99% of Clerics do nothing besides sit and click CH once in a while.

Necros and Mages are both excellent group classes when played well. They both are great at soloing as well. The funny thing is is that people run their mouths about how much these classes suck when they've never even grouped with them. I'm in dungeons every night and I pretty much never are Mages, and every Necro I see pretty much sucks. I do have friends who are excellent Mages and Necros, and its a blast to play with them.

As far as grouping is concerned, if you roll Necro or Mage expect a tough time finding groups as well as catching a ton of shit along the way. People talk about the Red community being toxic, but the i-buy-Call-of-Duty-every-year bluebie community is stupid to the point where people are hassled so much when they play odd classes to the point where they mostly quit and roll a Cleric. Blue is full of assholes, too - lets not kid ourselves here.

[Raev]

The group situation on Blue is that if you don't have an Epic Rogue or Fungi Monk you'll be hard up to find one.

Basically everyone wants to form that "standard" War/Mnk/Rog/Shm/Enc/Clr 6-man because they know they can faceroll their keyboards with that composition. As someone with a Mnk/War/Enc, it doesn't bother me much :p

The reality is that most of the time that group could get more XP by flipping the Shaman for a Mage or Necro, but without the shaman's security blanket of extra HP and slows everyone has to pay a bit more attention.

[jolanar]

Basically everyone wants to form that "standard" War/Mnk/Rog/Shm/Enc/Clr 6-man because they know they can faceroll their keyboards with that composition. As someone with a Mnk/War/Enc, it doesn't bother me much :p

The reality is that most of the time that group could get more XP by flipping the Shaman for a Mage or Necro, but without the shaman's security blanket of extra HP and slows everyone has to pay a bit more attention.

I think the biggest issue is nobody wants to START groups, they only ever want to join a group of 5.

[Tuljin]

I think the biggest issue is nobody wants to START groups, they only ever want to join a group of 5.

[webrunner5]

What level is your mage? Wouldn't the pet need time to recover HP if you aren't chain summoning?

Doesn't matter what level, every level from level 4 to 49 pet takes a beating if doing blues. But if you sit them to heal up and maybe heal them once you are only on your butt 1 to 2 minutes not 8 if you nuke like hell or keep reclaiming.

I probably a little over exaggerated the no down time but is a lot less than burning down mobs like a Wizard lol. :eek: And by the time you find a single mob you can pull on average the pet has healed up anyways by its self. And by the way my Mage is 57. I am just too lazy to get it to 60, and will probably never have a epic for it. My Druid has been 54 for like 3 years and I am on it about every day Porting or PLing with it lol, and I have never even done any of the epic work because there is no way in hell I am going to pay that much for MQ's . On Live even back in the day I had 3 epic toons. I have NONE on here. High end XP is just a total Bitch to get as well as epics other than the Rogue and maybe Monk.. :(

[webrunner5]

I spent most of my time soloing the Mage. I hardly ever am afk in a group because I mostly play healing classes, so you have to be there. But I have no clue why but have got a blast of shit a few times in groups because the pet was 2 seconds late or where is my DS, on and on. I have no clue why, but I just said the hell with it and use it solo 90% of the time.

Is a pretty good class to go solo with. They are a real challenge to break camps with but it is exciting even though you do die on them often if you really take chances. And you have to to get good loot. I know of hardly any good loot camp other than AC that really does not have a lot of high level mobs you have to kill to get to the one that drops the big one lol. :D I know there is some plat mobs to kill but I am talking items that sell for 3k and above. Because I totally suck at random rolls.

[SamwiseRed]

I think the biggest issue is nobody wants to START groups, they only ever want to join a group of 5.

this is why blue is so easy. i always start my groups and it only takes a few minutes of /who all CLASS LEVEL to get a decent group going. step up and form groups and xp will flow.

[hammertime7795]

Mage epic pet is crazy op and always will be on this server. Necro epic is hardy worth doing and is useless until snare/root stack sometime in velious and even then is only mildly useful. Both suck to play on raids as you're either a mana pump or a mana stick dump. Both are fun to play solo or in groups if you can get a group.

[webrunner5]

Mage epic pet is crazy op and always will be on this server. Necro epic is hardy worth doing and is useless until snare/root stack sometime in velious and even then is only mildly useful. Both suck to play on raids as you're either a mana pump or a mana stick dump. Both are fun to play solo or in groups if you can get a group.

Good info there for newer players. Well done. :D

[Tankdan]

on p99: necro
back in classic: mage

[cormag]

Sorry but SK epic is the hardest to get, Mage one sucks and is tedious, but not that hard. (done both on live back in the day)

The hardest part of the sk epic aside from the obligatory Fear and Sky swords was waiting for NPC's to spawn. I seem to recall doing something in the Hole to skip a big faction part too. (on live)

[Feathers]

I like zombies.