Tunare - Plane of Growth questions

[nilbog]

On beta, Tunare is currently written as the 'aggro the tree version, spawn the field version'. If you aggro the smaller version of her in the tree, she depops and repops in the field as a giant permarooted version.

If the field version pops, how long before it should depop?

If the field version depops, how long before the tree version repops?

If the field version is killed, how long before the tree version respawns?

[Daldaen]

http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/npc.html?id=5335&p=1#comments

After being aggro'd, she respawns at +1600 -250 in a large open area. If not engaged in about 15 minutes, she will despawn from that location (the field), and respawn in her tree. She can be respawned in the field by aggroing her in the tree.

Additional information you might be interested in:

Duo'd her with a 80 monk / 80 shaman.
Monk had 16.5k HP / 3050 AC, max defensive AA's, improved dodge III, improved block II, 8% dodge mod, 14% shielding.

Fight lasted approx. 27 minutes.
Tunare flurried 189 times.
Majority of her hits landed between 149 and 909.
27% of her hits landed for 149.
Average DPS Tunare put out for the fight was 135.
Total damage done BY Tunare: 213,304
Total damage done TO Tunare: 798,271

To your first two questions, it appears 15min to Despawn if not engaged. If despawns in killable state, the tree version immediately respawns and can be triggered again.

I believe she is a 7 day respawn. I'll search a bit more for info.

[Daldaen]

https://forums.station.sony.com/eq/index.php?threads/spawn-timer-tunare-fabled-question.208669/

3day respawn with 24hr variance on live. But that's unclassic. I imagine getting info on respawn will be tough.

[Colgate 2.0]

i would imagine a 7 day respawn time to be in line with all the other planar gods

[Raev]

Man, her ATK must be insane. 3050AC and +20 levels and still only 25% of her attacks hit for the minimum.

[Ele]

Monkly Business spawn timer thread listed "7days?" back in August/October 2001.

Aside, also lists Maestro 12 hour and Draco 7 days.

http://www.monkly-business.net/forums/showthread.php?t=8845

[Daldaen]

I'd be fine with a 7 day respawn. I doubt you will find much info on it considering PoG was like a 10 hour day for many guilds :/.

Maestro timer DAYUM.... Really would love to see that patched in.

[Littlegyno 13.0]

I'd be fine with a 7 day respawn. I doubt you will find much info on it considering PoG was like a 10 hour day for many guilds :/.

Maestro timer DAYUM.... Really would love to see that patched in.

AOW and tunare encounters real iffy on information as it was done late velious and wasn't documented very well.

[Kringe]

On beta, Tunare is currently written as the 'aggro the tree version, spawn the field version'. If you aggro the smaller version of her in the tree, she depops and repops in the field as a giant permarooted version.

If the field version pops, how long before it should depop?

If the field version depops, how long before the tree version repops?

If the field version is killed, how long before the tree version respawns?


The only problem with Despawning and respawning at will, is resetting Tunare until you get the items you want visually seen in her hand..

[Nirgon]

That's classic tho?

Go with it.

[Zalaerian]

looking 4 ward to this again

http://i.imgur.com/QgayZnr.jpg

[Decad]

Monkly Business spawn timer thread listed "7days?" back in August/October 2001.

Aside, also lists Maestro 12 hour and Draco 7 days.

http://www.monkly-business.net/forums/showthread.php?t=8845

This post was made before Tunare was dead and it was just a guess.

Talisman guild on Tunare server (ironically) was one of the first guilds everquest wide (if not the first to kill Tunare)

Below is the dead time.

http://www.talismanguild.org/index.php?news_id=14

And look at the below link on the spawn times posted by Gnat and Xnao

http://www.elitegamerslounge.com/home/soearchive/viewtopic.php?f=1414&t=176929

[Aadill]

Something to note based on that blog Decad linked: she wasn't killed till after Luclin was released.

[Man0warr]

She was broken in game off and on for a long time (used to spawn under world when aggroed?) and it took them awhile to fix her, but I'm sure she died before Luclin released.

edit:

Yeah looks like Afterlife (and at least 1 guild before them) killed her for the first time in October 2001 - http://www.afterlifeguild.org/template.cgi?page=index_may_oct01

There was a huge patch on Oct 8 2001 (resist and melee changes) that might have finally fixed her.

[Ele]

Fires of Heaven killed Tunare first in July 29, 2001 (http://web.archive.org/web/20010809194733/http://www.noows.com/showthread.php?threadid=2719).

The second server to kill Tunare was Afterlife's (Mith Marr) first kill on October 13, 2001 (http://web.archive.org/web/20020324032612/http://afterlifeguild.org/).

[Ele]

And look at the below link on the spawn times posted by Gnat and Xnao

http://www.elitegamerslounge.com/home/soearchive/viewtopic.php?f=1414&t=176929

A lot of non-classic timers in that thread.

[evilkorn]

Do the images come through in the FoH thread on your end Ele? The ones on afterlife show a smaller size than she appears on the TMO fight pictures.

[Ele]

Do the images come through in the FoH thread on your end Ele? The ones on afterlife show a smaller size than she appears on the TMO fight pictures.

The pictures on FOH noows don't work in the archive.org pull. :(

Afterlife Oct. 2001 for reference:
http://i.imgur.com/V3b8XgO.jpg

[Ele]

Seems like she got a size increase post Luclin

pictures from Legacy of Sorrow kills.

Nov. 17, 2001:
http://www.legacyofsorrow.net/events/11-17-2001/tunaredown.jpg
http://www.legacyofsorrow.net/events/11-17-2001/


Dec. 3, 2001:
http://www.legacyofsorrow.net/events/12-03-2001/tunarecorpse2.jpg
http://www.legacyofsorrow.net/events/12-03-2001/

[Nirgon]

just 1 more time for the record

she was itemized with all da goog shit on our timeline

[Ele]

Except Fist of Nature. :P

At least to the extent we haven't shown it existed Pre-Luclin.

http://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=150097

[Daldaen]

Oh so she wasn't perma rooted in the field to start?

[Ele]

Oh so she wasn't perma rooted in the field to start?

That might be a Luclin thing too.

When we tried her on Prexus late-Velious and pulled her to the mini-castle on the East wall to try and negate the push back.


http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/npc.html?id=5335&p=3#m101805170475931

Apr 05 2002 at 7:13 PMRating: Default
Anonymous
Anonymous
She's permarooted now - starts out in her treehouse, but warps out to the forrest near it when aggroed. Easier fight now imo.

She doesn't rampage, but flurries quite a bit - maybe every 5 seconds or so. High resists (no lifetaps, gotta use lures, etc.)

Only real problem with her is her knockback + root, but it's pretty easy to overcome with some thought.

[Nirgon]

Call up Blizzard corporate office and ask for Furor Planedefiler to get this all str8ned out

[wycca]

Except Fist of Nature. :P

At least to the extent we haven't shown it existed Pre-Luclin.

http://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=150097

I can't post since that old thread is locked, but did more digging -

New info on Fist of Nature - I actually can't believe I didn't do this sooner. Chardok revamp went live on 10/08/01. If you look up Fist of Nature (item #5776), then check item id's around it - from #5772 up through #5781 are all Chardok revamp items. The notable exception is #5777 - which is from PoP. Looking at it though, it could easily be a chardok revamp item that wasn't used, which suggests it may have simply been renamed and re-used for PoP. The 10/08/01 patch date is the patch I fingered for likely adding the Fist of Nature - ie melee revamp & tunare loot revamp.

Old Research Here - http://www.project1999.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1532584&postcount=27

I'm firmly convinced it went in with the 10-08-01 Monk weapon revamp. There was also a Tunare item revamp - most likely on the 10-08-01 that I originally pointed at since I think AL got the revamped loot? Oh and Chardok went in on 10-8-01, with the Fist of Nature being created in the middle of a bunch of new Chardok items.

There's also no reason to expect that they somehow went back, after the Tunare item revamp, after the Chardok revamp, after the Monk weapon itemization changes, when the shit-show of a Luclin launch was going on (before the 12/24/01 Magelo entry), and added *1* weapon for monks to Tunare. More likely it just wasn't discovered (except perhaps by Legacy of Sorrow), and should be a classic 1hb on her table.

[Nirgon]

Agree with above using Vulcan logic

[Treats]

I don't think Tunare was rooted in the middle of the field until the patch that also rooted some NToV dragons.

[Ele]

I can't post since that old thread is locked, but did more digging -


reopened the thread if you want to post in it.

[Ele]

I'm certainly not on a campaign to keep out Fist of Nature no matter what and wouldn't be against it coming in as 1hb, but I think the item # argument is a bit tenuous.

Using the item list from: http://lucy.allakhazam.com/downloads.html

In the middle of Chardok revamp stuff is the Fist:
5776,"Fist of Nature",http://lucy.allakhazam.com/item.html?id=5776

Other items added or upgraded in late Velious, especially Priceless Velium Fist Wraps:
5833,"Priceless Velium Fist Wraps",http://lucy.allakhazam.com/item.html?id=5833
5834,"Priceless Velium Knight's Sword",http://lucy.allakhazam.com/item.html?id=5834
5835,"Primal Velium Knight's Sword",http://lucy.allakhazam.com/item.html?id=5835
5836,"Fist of Lightning",http://lucy.allakhazam.com/item.html?id=5836
5837,"Dragonrib Club",http://lucy.allakhazam.com/item.html?id=5837
5838,"Baton of Flame",http://lucy.allakhazam.com/item.html?id=5838
5839,"Wurmscale Fistwraps",http://lucy.allakhazam.com/item.html?id=5839
5840,"Argent Protector",http://lucy.allakhazam.com/item.html?id=5840
5841,"Shard of Night",http://lucy.allakhazam.com/item.html?id=5841
5842,"Dragonspine Rapier",http://lucy.allakhazam.com/item.html?id=5842
5843,"Frosted Ice Spike",http://lucy.allakhazam.com/item.html?id=5843


But Primal Fist Wraps are way down the list with normal Primals:

27320,"Primal Velium Fist Wraps",http://lucy.allakhazam.com/item.html?id=27320
27321,"Primal Velium Battlehammer",http://lucy.allakhazam.com/item.html?id=27321
27322,"Primal Velium Spear",http://lucy.allakhazam.com/item.html?id=27322
27323,"Primal Velium Claidhmore",http://lucy.allakhazam.com/item.html?id=27323
27324,"Primal Velium Brawl Stick",http://lucy.allakhazam.com/item.html?id=27324
27325,"Primal Velium War Lance",http://lucy.allakhazam.com/item.html?id=27325
27326,"Primal Velium Reinforced Bow",http://lucy.allakhazam.com/item.html?id=27326
27327,"Primal Velium Battle Axe",http://lucy.allakhazam.com/item.html?id=27327
27328,"Primal Velium Warsword",http://lucy.allakhazam.com/item.html?id=27328


Custom Velious Helms in the middle of Luclin items in the 2600s:
2610,"Custom Frostreaver's Velium Crown",http://lucy.allakhazam.com/item.html?id=2610
2611,"Custom Crown of the Kromzek Kings",http://lucy.allakhazam.com/item.html?id=2611
2612,"Custom Cowl of Mortality",http://lucy.allakhazam.com/item.html?id=2612

But other custom quested helms are way down the list in the 35000:
31515,"Custom Dark Runed Crown",http://lucy.allakhazam.com/item.html?id=31515
31516,"Custom Runed Protector's Helm",http://lucy.allakhazam.com/item.html?id=31516
31517,"Custom Resonant Helm",http://lucy.allakhazam.com/item.html?id=31517
31518,"Custom Crown of Forbidden Rites",http://lucy.allakhazam.com/item.html?id=31518
31519,"Custom Champion's Crown",http://lucy.allakhazam.com/item.html?id=31519
31520,"Custom Malevolent Crown",http://lucy.allakhazam.com/item.html?id=31520
31521,"Custom Shining Helm",http://lucy.allakhazam.com/item.html?id=31521
31522,"Custom Troubadour's Helm",http://lucy.allakhazam.com/item.html?id=31522
31523,"Custom Templar's Crown",http://lucy.allakhazam.com/item.html?id=31523
31524,"Custom Warlord's Crown",http://lucy.allakhazam.com/item.html?id=31524
31525,"Custom Blood Lord's Crown",http://lucy.allakhazam.com/item.html?id=31525
31526,"Custom Scaled Knight's Helm",http://lucy.allakhazam.com/item.html?id=31526
31527,"Custom Helm of Twilight",http://lucy.allakhazam.com/item.html?id=31527
31528,"Akkirus' Custom Crown of the Risen",http://lucy.allakhazam.com/item.html?id=31528
31529,"Custom Crown of the Myrmidon",http://lucy.allakhazam.com/item.html?id=31529


Some Sleeper's Tomb items are just a hundred spots away from cloth caps (1001) towards the beginning of the database.
1135,"Mask of Tinkering",http://lucy.allakhazam.com/item.html?id=1135
1136,Smolder,http://lucy.allakhazam.com/item.html?id=1136
1137,"Shroud of Longevity",http://lucy.allakhazam.com/item.html?id=1137
1138,"White Resistance Stone",http://lucy.allakhazam.com/item.html?id=1138
1139,"Blue Resistance Stone",http://lucy.allakhazam.com/item.html?id=1139
1140,"Red Resistance Stone",http://lucy.allakhazam.com/item.html?id=1140

Kunark stuff in the 6000s:
6629,"Rod of Mourning",http://lucy.allakhazam.com/item.html?id=6629
6630,"Runed Fighters Staff",http://lucy.allakhazam.com/item.html?id=6630
6631,"Ton Po's Bo Stick of Understanding",http://lucy.allakhazam.com/item.html?id=6631
6635,"Woodsman's Staff",http://lucy.allakhazam.com/item.html?id=6635
6636,"Runestone Maul",http://lucy.allakhazam.com/item.html?id=6636
6637,"Staff of Battle",http://lucy.allakhazam.com/item.html?id=6637

[Littlegyno 13.0]

I'm certainly not on a campaign to keep out Fist of Nature no matter what and wouldn't be against it coming in as 1hb, but I think the item # argument is a bit tenuous.

Using the item list from: http://lucy.allakhazam.com/downloads.html

In the middle of Chardok revamp stuff is the Fist:
5776,"Fist of Nature",http://lucy.allakhazam.com/item.html?id=5776

Other items added or upgraded in late Velious, especially Priceless Velium Fist Wraps:



But Primal Fist Wraps are way down the list with normal Primals:




Custom Velious Helms in the middle of Luclin items in the 2600s:


But other custom quested helms are way down the list in the 35000:



Some Sleeper's Tomb items are just a hundred spots away from cloth caps (1001) towards the beginning of the database.


Kunark stuff in the 6000s:

good post which is why deleting all the sea dragon meats by using item ID #'s is ridiculous.

[wycca]

I'm certainly not on a campaign to keep out Fist of Nature no matter what and wouldn't be against it coming in as 1hb, but I think the item # argument is a bit tenuous.

Using the item list from: http://lucy.allakhazam.com/downloads.html

In the middle of Chardok revamp stuff is the Fist:
5776,"Fist of Nature",http://lucy.allakhazam.com/item.html?id=5776

Other items added or upgraded in late Velious, especially Priceless Velium Fist Wraps:



But Primal Fist Wraps are way down the list with normal Primals:




Custom Velious Helms in the middle of Luclin items in the 2600s:


But other custom quested helms are way down the list in the 35000:



Some Sleeper's Tomb items are just a hundred spots away from cloth caps (1001) towards the beginning of the database.


Kunark stuff in the 6000s:

You actually reinforced my point (and saved me a bunch of research later).

Items added later are often designed together. The YY part of the YYXX numbering scheme doesn't matter a ton in the grand scheme (ie 65xx or 73xx), since items can be all over the place (ie primals by cloth caps) - but they are often in sequence with other items designed at a similar time. The XX part and being in sequence with other items is what does. That's why the wurm meat research is actually impactful - its in sequence with velious only items (and nobody can show it dropped in Kunark).

All of those patch additions are clumped roughly around when they went in and were designed in sequence.

The items you listed were designed in similar clumps, and the Fist of Nature ended up in the new Chardok revamp clump. The meat clumps show items that went in during Velious. The custom helms were clumped when they went in.

Like I said, I'm of the opinion that you just reinforced my own research. They design items in series for the most part. Who knows how they came up with the YY part of the YYXX numbering system, but the XX parts are typically share some similarity of either zone, type of item, or in terms of additions, by when they were added (ie expansion/patch). The Fist of Nature was in sequence with Chardok revamp items, which were put in 10-08-01. It's merely a piece of the body of evidence that suggests the Fist of Nature was not a luclin creation and it fits with the other parts of my research.

[Man0warr]

Yeah the ID numbers aren't always sequential based on time the item was created - since they have to be unique I assume the devs added big groups of items in number ranges that had no chance of conflict. Hence some Kunark clumps in the 6000s.

[wycca]

I'm going to cross post it in the meat thread, but there's at least 2 reports of Faydedar loot from pre-Velious, which seem to clearly rule out meat dropping.

[Rais]

Tunare is way off as to when we first killed Tunare for the first time. 0 spells should be able to land on her. Even lures were resisted 100%. I know we had roughly 110 on beta ranging in levels 52-60 and the fight lasted for a short time 9mins? We had around 60-70 of the best geared and took about 35+ mins to kill her. There also were a lot of max hits on her so I am guessing her ac is pretty low.

Was fun tho!

[Method]

Tunare is way off as to when we first killed Tunare for the first time. 0 spells should be able to land on her. Even lures were resisted 100%. I know we had roughly 110 on beta ranging in levels 52-60 and the fight lasted for a short time 9mins? We had around 60-70 of the best geared and took about 35+ mins to kill her. There also were a lot of max hits on her so I am guessing her ac is pretty low.

Was fun tho!

Same can be said with AoW, Both tunare and aow seem to be missing a lot as well, overall they both need to be tweaked a bit to get them up to par.

[Ele]

For reference, the rest of her specific loot table.

Essence of Nature between some Luclin items and Plane of Fear belt. Thorn and Girdle between some classic/kunark stuff and Stonebrunt stuff.
2490,"Robe of the Nexus",http://lucy.allakhazam.com/item.html?id=2490
2491,"Robe of the Nexus",http://lucy.allakhazam.com/item.html?id=2491
2492,"Crystal Staff of the Nexus",http://lucy.allakhazam.com/item.html?id=2492
2498,"Essence of Nature",http://lucy.allakhazam.com/item.html?id=2498
2499,"Robe of Recovery",http://lucy.allakhazam.com/item.html?id=2499
2500,"Girdle of the Diligent",http://lucy.allakhazam.com/item.html?id=2500
2501,"Dweamorvine Garland",http://lucy.allakhazam.com/item.html?id=2501
2502,"Flayed Turmoilskin Belt",http://lucy.allakhazam.com/item.html?id=2502
2503,"Scaled Prowler Cloak",http://lucy.allakhazam.com/item.html?id=2503
2504,"Scourgetail Bracer",http://lucy.allakhazam.com/item.html?id=2504
2505,"Scaled Prowler Belt",http://lucy.allakhazam.com/item.html?id=2505
2506,"Carrion Beetle Leggings",http://lucy.allakhazam.com/item.html?id=2506
2507,"Blockcutter Gloves",http://lucy.allakhazam.com/item.html?id=2507
2509,"Massive Heartwood Thorn",http://lucy.allakhazam.com/item.html?id=2509
2510,"Girdle of Living Thorns",http://lucy.allakhazam.com/item.html?id=2510
2512,"Blue Burlap Hood",http://lucy.allakhazam.com/item.html?id=2512
2513,"Blue Burlap Veil",http://lucy.allakhazam.com/item.html?id=2513


Braid, Flamberge, Sap, and Gold Leaf between some Stonebrunt Mtn. items.
2575,"Astral Leggings of the Titans",http://lucy.allakhazam.com/item.html?id=2575
2576,"Shattered Soul Orb",http://lucy.allakhazam.com/item.html?id=2576
2577,"Shattered Fading Soul Orb",http://lucy.allakhazam.com/item.html?id=2577
2578,"Spirit Reaver",http://lucy.allakhazam.com/item.html?id=2578
2579,"Braid of Golden Hair",http://lucy.allakhazam.com/item.html?id=2579
2580,"Petrified Heartwood Flamberge",http://lucy.allakhazam.com/item.html?id=2580
2581,"Golden Leaf Earring",http://lucy.allakhazam.com/item.html?id=2581
2582,"Sap Encrusted Branch",http://lucy.allakhazam.com/item.html?id=2582
2583,"Researcher's Badge",http://lucy.allakhazam.com/item.html?id=2583
2584,"Live Enchanted Rat: Jar 1",http://lucy.allakhazam.com/item.html?id=2584

Nature's Melody next to Trakanon's Tooth and those are between Luclin Grimling stuff.
7275,"Grikplag's Sceptre",http://lucy.allakhazam.com/item.html?id=7275
7276,"Trakanon's Tooth",http://lucy.allakhazam.com/item.html?id=7276
7277,"Nature's Melody",http://lucy.allakhazam.com/item.html?id=7277
7285,"Claw of the High Grimling",http://lucy.allakhazam.com/item.html?id=7285
7286,"Claw of the Grimling Slayer",http://lucy.allakhazam.com/item.html?id=7286

Blade of the swarm between random PoG Drop and Coldain Ring 9/10 and just after Blue Diamond Jewelry.
30360,"Silver Blue Diamond Ring",http://lucy.allakhazam.com/item.html?id=30360
30361,"Blue Diamond Electrum Earring",http://lucy.allakhazam.com/item.html?id=30361
30362,"Golden Blue Diamond Pendant",http://lucy.allakhazam.com/item.html?id=30362
30363,"Platinum Blue Diamond Tiara",http://lucy.allakhazam.com/item.html?id=30363
30364,"Silver Blue Diamond Ring",http://lucy.allakhazam.com/item.html?id=30364
30365,"Blue Diamond Electrum Earring",http://lucy.allakhazam.com/item.html?id=30365
30366,"Golden Blue Diamond Pendant",http://lucy.allakhazam.com/item.html?id=30366
30367,"Platinum Blue Diamond Tiara",http://lucy.allakhazam.com/item.html?id=30367
30368,"Airstrand Gloves",http://lucy.allakhazam.com/item.html?id=30368
30369,"Coldain Hero's Insignia Ring",http://lucy.allakhazam.com/item.html?id=30369
30372,"Stonewood Mail",http://lucy.allakhazam.com/item.html?id=30372
30377,"Oakleaf Girdle",http://lucy.allakhazam.com/item.html?id=30377
30380,"Blade of the Swarm",http://lucy.allakhazam.com/item.html?id=30380
30385,"Ring of Dain Frostreaver IV",http://lucy.allakhazam.com/item.html?id=30385
30386,"Broken Velium Long Sword",http://lucy.allakhazam.com/item.html?id=30386

[Raev]

I too was kind of sad to see the Avatar of War get stomped by a barely coordinated zerg, but I suppose that is just the fate of the Giants. Still:

Ketsui shouts, '/GU The Avatar of War in 344s, 821k @2386dps --- Prollapse 25k @75dps --- Konsent 24k @72dps --- Koraf 23k @69dps --- Robbertt 23k @67dps --- Eldon 22k @85dps --- Peekae 22k @66dps --- Devlish 22k @66dps --- Fetal 22k @68dps --- Talsabis 20k @61dps --- Akashx 20k @60dps'

His AC seems way too low. Ragebringer Rogues doing 85 dps, even with Avatar? He's supposed to be the toughest mob in the game. Cutting that by a 25-30% feels like it would be way more balanced.

Also I would love to see his cooldown decreased. It's already really fast (it seems like just over 1 second based on the logs I saw) but without an AE or Rampage he has no other way to eat through a zerg of players. 0.75 seconds or something would be really nice.

Finally I suspect Cobblestone is right that the Fist of Nature was put in during the Great Monk Upgrade (why monks needed an upgrade I have no idea). Its stats match perfectly with Vulak's 16/19 fist.

[Littlegyno 13.0]

I too was kind of sad to see the Avatar of War get stomped by a barely coordinated zerg, but I suppose that is just the fate of the Giants. Still:



His AC seems way too low. Ragebringer Rogues doing 85 dps, even with Avatar? He's supposed to be the toughest mob in the game. Cutting that by a 25-30% feels like it would be way more balanced.

Also I would love to see his cooldown decreased. It's already really fast (it seems like just over 1 second based on the logs I saw) but without an AE or Rampage he has no other way to eat through a zerg of players. 0.75 seconds or something would be really nice.

Finally I suspect Cobblestone is right that the Fist of Nature was put in during the Great Monk Upgrade (why monks needed an upgrade I have no idea). Its stats match perfectly with Vulak's 16/19 fist.

i agree, he seemed WAY too easy even for a 120 man zerg.

[wycca]

Yea, if he was that easy for a 120-person zerg then he would have died a ton. LoS+SoS had around that many people if I recalled, and still needed bind rushing (a tactic sadly not available on P99 due to implementing near-Luclin bind rules in Kael on day 1).

That being said, I sincerely doubt that classic guilds had P99's concentration of dps. I do agree that AC seems too low though. No classic parses to base it on, but thats awfully high dps on him.

[Method]

Yea, if he was that easy for a 120-person zerg then he would have died a ton. LoS+SoS had around that many people if I recalled, and still needed bind rushing (a tactic sadly not available on P99 due to implementing near-Luclin bind rules in Kael on day 1).

That being said, I sincerely doubt that classic guilds had P99's concentration of dps. I do agree that AC seems too low though. No classic parses to base it on, but thats awfully high dps on him.

Looking over the damage logs for Tunare and AoW, both have a extremely low dps output around 2k. This would explain why keeping a tank up in kunark gear isn't all that difficult, AoW or tunare back on live would get one good round off and take out a 7k hp tank with ease. Also tunare had insane hp regen on live, i'm not sure how she is setup here but that could be off as well.

[wycca]

NPC AC is too low is what I meant just to be clear - PC dps seems really high on him. I would like to point out that in other tests of AoW he has owned tanks, although I'm not sure if it's as fast as classic.

I just looked at our Tunare fight (not the 4 guild one) - I do see her regenning a bit, but it's not insane. Ie maybe her regen needs to be bumped up to be say, like Yelinak's if she classically had high regen.

[Raev]

Method it would be impossible for the Avatar of War to 1-round a defensive tank. His absolute max damage per round is 5600 or so, and that will almost never happen (quad roll + flurry roll + quad roll + 8x hit rolls + 8x max damage rolls). The standard CH rot for the AoW was 2s, right? At 2k dps the average cheal is 4000.

I think the biggest differences between here and live are the rock solid internet connections everyone has (so no one ever missed CH rounds) and the monstrous number of epic rogues. And unfortunately the Avatar of War is just extremely zergable without an AOE; all the giants will be. It's just going to be a matter of having enough defensive warriors, clerics, and dps to beat them down.

I'd love to see both the Statue and the AoW get even a small AOE to keep things interesting (like, say, Trunt's proc) but that's not classic. I think the best chance to make him a bit more interesting is to up his AC a lot, and then maybe up his offensive stats slightly in terms of max hit chance, hit chance, flurry chance, cooldown etc. We don't really know how classic AC worked, but the way people will wipe to AoW is when they run out of clerics and defensive warriors.

Also I hope the staff will implement some sort of little 'whenever your pet dies/breaks, the mobs it was attacking get +50 hate for you if they are over L60' or something like that. Classic is 30 mages being able to destroy all of Kael.

[Man0warr]

The concentration of rogue/monk mains/alts on this server instead of people playing classes like necro/druid/paladins/shadowknights will probably be the biggest factor.

[Skydash]

Found this about Tunare, not sure what the encounter is like on beta as I did not participate.

EQlizer - Tunare (https://web.archive.org/web/20010617170431/http://www.gameznet.com/eq/ultra/tunare.html)
Quad hit for up to 950
Flurries and Zonewide Silences
Regenerates at an unmeasurable level

[Nirgon]

Ail the Elder does the silence not Tunare

Regen I'm sure needs a tweak dunno how much?

[LostCause]

didn't tunare have a knockback aswell? i swear i remember having ogre walls behind the tank on live but been so long i can't remember.

[Method]

didn't tunare have a knockback aswell? i swear i remember having ogre walls behind the tank on live but been so long i can't remember.

Classic Tunare would knockback the tank and then root the tank away from her causing tunare to switch to the dps and go wild.

Was a challenging part about tunare, and you didn't want her to run OOM cause soon as she did her dps went way up, usually had a couple extra clerics join in on the CH chain soon as she ran oom.

[koros]

So I only fought classic 1.0 Tunare and don't remember the details too well. I recall she was mobile and never rooted. Her guardians silenced right? Hit for less than rooted/knockback Tunare, like 850 quad/very fast, basically 100% immune to everything?

How is she here? Is my 1.0 recollection right? Is she implemented at 1.0?

[Treats]

Tunare should be using Power of the Forests and Vengeance of the Glades no matter which version she is.

Both of these spells are instantaneous.

They are also 0 mana, I'm not sure how she would run OOM unless she was casting other spells (I don't think so).

She freight trains your tank, same as AoW.

[Treats]

Also, you are going with the permarooted version of Tunare right Nilbog?

If so, be certain permarooted NPCs are not following the same proxy aggro rules as actual spell rooted NPCs.

[Rais]

Perma rooted Tunare is so off of being classic. I hope that isn't what he is going for. Tunare was a pain in the ass since she would fling the warrior so far away and she would just rampage through the dps. And Oger wall wasn't enough to stop them from flying.

[nilbog]

Tunare's current implementation is the only one of with solid mechanical proof, so that's how she currently works.

How would it go if... everything was left the same, except the field version was not permarooted?

What exactly made her unkillable until late Velious?

[Nirgon]

guilds full of hybrid class scum

DCing was a plague

People didn't bring 100+ because they were at odds with each other and didn't recruit for those #s

When they finally did, she went down

[Ele]

What exactly made her unkillable until late Velious?

Probably a combination of 1) immense amount of time to clear the zone before engaging her and 2) the busted implementations before August 2001, when FoH finally killed her and only got a PoG robe and 2x Blade of the Swarm.

If you had all day to raid, NToV was much more beneficial than PoG. Also, a lot of people rolled Tunare worshiping pansy races/classes and didn't want to ruin faction.

[Itap]

What exactly made her unkillable until late Velious?

Lack of desirable loot in addition to a guild full of Shadowknights and Paladins as DPS?

[Rais]

The biggest challenge we faced was clearing PoG and attempting her. The second most was a combo of sheer hp regen/lack of damage dealt to her. It was by far the longest fight we had vs a NPC until Luclin. Melee did below average damage, and her regen was close to broken crazy.

In our attempt we had all our casters log on melee alts simply due to the fact we couldn't land any spells on her. Enchanters rune/haste, necros had pets and twitched clerics, mages summoned mod rods and had a pet. (Last beta test I had with Tunare, wizards were able to land nukes with little issue as example.)

The 3rd most was the fact that once she knocked the main tank away, she would turn on whoever was the closest. I want to say it was like classic undead agro, but she could be main tanked as long as they were in melee range if that makes sense. Maybe the knockback had some type of deagro mod to it, I doubt that was the case though. We first tried Orge wall, didn't work. She would just knock them over the wall. We ended up doing it on the zone wall so knockback wasn't as big of a problem.

I thought for sure some people were going to hang themselves over the two robes that dropped. So the knowledge that her items were crap kinda dampened many peoples want to kill her till she was upgraded or showed different loot.

*had ~twoish Tunare loving toons in the guild. So lack of numbers from them wasn't an issue at all. There were desync or lag issues at times while we fought her for some people, maybe they were on AOL connection or that 54k modem couldn't take it. I would say we had 55ish people there. She isn't on Par of AoW, but she wasn't a cake walk. Just how fast and easy we killed her on Beta was crazy

[dafier]

From what I remember;

Tunare was a 7 day respawn. She hit like a truck. I believe the tank had to have a ton of AC and a high MR and ...PR or DR I think....dang, it's been a long time.

Anyway, clearing growth didn't take very long and most of the time I remember fighting her in the middle of a field. We had a Monk with SoW go to the tree to start the event.

I think AOW was more difficult due to needing like 3 or 4 BEEFY tanks. But his loots were phat for the melee classes.

[wycca]

Probably a combination of 1) immense amount of time to clear the zone before engaging her and 2) the busted implementations before August 2001, when FoH finally killed her and only got a PoG robe and 2x Blade of the Swarm.

If you had all day to raid, NToV was much more beneficial than PoG. Also, a lot of people rolled Tunare worshiping pansy races/classes and didn't want to ruin faction.

This.

As guilds like FoH and AL messed with her and got horrid loot + bugs, who would want to? She underwent a loot revamp (noted in my various Fist of Nature posts) which changed the encounter and her desirability, which is what started the other guilds attempting her shortly before Velious. It was finally worth it to do so considering her difficulty, the zone's annoyance factor, the faction hits, and the horrid loot/bugs.

[Erati]

alot of people begging for Tunare pixels week 1 of Velious

IMO she should b overtuned initially so theres a bit of majesty to the Mother of the Elves

it would b more inline with the goals of the server than allowing Fists of Nature to go to monk alts 3 months in

[Treats]

The 3rd most was the fact that once she knocked the main tank away, she would turn on whoever was the closest. I want to say it was like classic undead agro, but she could be main tanked as long as they were in melee range if that makes sense. Maybe the knockback had some type of deagro mod to it, I doubt that was the case though. We first tried Orge wall, didn't work. She would just knock them over the wall. We ended up doing it on the zone wall so knockback wasn't as big of a problem.


She either had an increased proxy multiplier or was the same as other bosses but seemed magnified because of the shoot and root.

Guessing she shot the tank away, killed x melee starting with closest that were above the tank in hate with the proxy mod (tank no longer had), then summoned the tank back once he was back on top?

[koros]

Furor on the day she died:

It was getting louder and louder, every damned day. Well, today, the voice stopped. The Mother-of-All gracefully bowed down to the combined forces of FoH and CD. Loot? Well, it sucked.... For the ridiculously retarded effort we had to put in (clearing the zone) to kill her, and the fifteen+ minute fight of a flurrying 925quadding slut... IT REALLY SUCKED.

People posted some information about killing her here:

http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/npc.html?id=5335&p=1#comments

One said 798k damage in 27 minutes. Another said 670k damage in 153 ticks

Solving gives about 503k hp base and 1090hp a tick regen.

Furor said 15+ minutes, so say 18 minutes gives 180*1090+503,000 = 699,200hp ~ 700,000

Rais said 55 people, so assume 25 of them are doing dps? A lot of whom probably aren't doing that much.

700,000/25/18/60 ~ 26 dps

Not that unreasonable if she was moving/killing people/a lot weren't rogues or monks.


So we did it here in 9 minutes. 90*1090+503,000 = 601100 ~ 600,000

700,000/9/60/26 = 42.73


Now the million dollar questions. Did we have more rogues here? Did we have 43 people doing dps? If so, nothing is wrong. If we had less people doing dps, she's too easy. If we had many more people doing dps, she might be harder than classic.

[Erati]

it shouldnt matter how close to classic the actual mob is, the encounter itself should resemble the classic experience and should not be defeated within the first week of our Velious release

hopefully the devs are having lots of 'Classic Feel' vs "Actual Classic" discussions when it comes to mobs and encounters like this one so our server can enjoy a few things like Tunare as an actual accomplishment rather than another gear farm

[Rais]

She either had an increased proxy multiplier or was the same as other bosses but seemed magnified because of the shoot and root.

Guessing she shot the tank away, killed x melee starting with closest that were above the tank in hate with the proxy mod (tank no longer had), then summoned the tank back once he was back on top?

This sounds pretty spot on. I think we tried 3 times that day to kill her. And if the warrior was knocked far enough away, we would wipe due to agro list/ping ponging around/low health agro so the tank couldn't require the agro.
Furor on the day she died:

For the ridiculously retarded effort we had to put in (clearing the zone) to kill her, and the fifteen+ minute fight of a flurrying 925quadding slut... IT REALLY SUCKED.

People posted some information about killing her here:

http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/npc.html?id=5335&p=1#comments

One said 798k damage in 27 minutes. Another said 670k damage in 153 ticks

Solving gives about 503k hp base and 1090hp a tick regen.

Furor said 15+ minutes, so say 18 minutes gives 180*1090+503,000 = 699,200hp ~ 700,000

Rais said 55 people, so assume 25 of them are doing dps? A lot of whom probably aren't doing that much.

700,000/25/18/60 ~ 26 dps

Not that unreasonable if she was moving/killing people/a lot weren't rogues or monks.


So we did it here in 9 minutes. 90*1090+503,000 = 601100 ~ 600,000

700,000/9/60/26 = 42.73


Now the million dollar questions. Did we have more rogues here? Did we have 43 people doing dps? If so, nothing is wrong. If we had less people doing dps, she's too easy. If we had many more people doing dps, she might be harder than classic.

I would peg the fight more towards 20-25 mins. Furor had a tendency to understate how hard a mob was/type of abilities when we first killed it to throw the other main guilds off. I'd love to give a number of how many of each class we had, but all I know 100% was that spells couldn't land and we played our melee ults.

I just want her as close to classic as I recall. I know there is very little information from what memory tells. I just want people to relive how it was classically and enjoy beating such a challenge in Eq.

[koros]

I would peg the fight more towards 20-25 mins. Furor had a tendency to understate how hard a mob was/type of abilities when we first killed it to throw the other main guilds off. I'd love to give a number of how many of each class we had, but all I know 100% was that spells couldn't land and we played our melee ults.

Yeah, we tried her on Rodcet Nife with a ton of people. Nothing landed at all.

[Treats]

I just want her as close to classic as I recall. I know there is very little information from what memory tells. I just want people to relive how it was classically and enjoy beating such a challenge in Eq.

Pretty much the same here.

Once the kings of Velious die thats it, there is no more.

Why would you upgrade anything if it can be done in Kunark gear?

[Ele]

Pretty much the same here.

Once the kings of Velious die thats it, there is no more.

Why would you upgrade anything if it can be done in Kunark gear?

Bigger stats makes my e-peen grow.