Most/All DoTs are 1 tick short

[koros]

The Splurt thread reminded me of this. I believe DoTs were coded to do 1 tick more than their listed duration to counteract the kiting nerf. Here's the notes on the patch that changed this. If this is implemented and I'm unaware then totally ignore this. But the reports from Splurt damage make me think it's not the case.

http://everquest.allakhazam.com/history/patches-1999.html

DoT Changes:
- If the monster is in melee with you, there is no change to how a DoT
spell works.
- If the monster is running away from you (fear, wounded, etc.), there
is no change to how a DoT spell works.
- If the monster is moving when the damage from the DoT is applied
(happens every few seconds), it will take 66% of the damage that it
would have taken.
- DoT spells have all had their duration slightly increased. If the
monster moves for 18 seconds during a fight, it will take as much
damage from the DoT as it would before the patch. If the monster moves
for less then 18 seconds during a fight, your DoT will do more damage
then it would have done before the patch. If the monster moves more
then 18 seconds during the fight, it will take less damage then it
would have before the patch.

How did they implement this last part? They added an extra tick at the end of the dot.

Here's Druids talking about it, noting an extra tick from Winged Death.

http://thedruidsgrove.org/archive/eq/t-3852.html

Here's Splurt very noticably being 17 ticks.

http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/spell.html?spell=1620#m105547656970427

[koros]

http://www.necrotalk.com/archive/index.php/t-158.html

http://www.necrotalk.com/archive/index.php/t-2181.html

Both showing 17 ticks. For the record, it still shows as 1.6 minutes on lucy and has never been changed.

[Erati]

welcome to something druids have complained about for a while now.....

[koros]

They address it? Did it need more proof or just no word?

[Erati]

They address it? Did it need more proof or just no word?

dont think so - its more of a Dald question tho - he has druid spell mechanics tatoo'd

[Nirgon]

good thread make it so

[koros]

An attempt at proof that they hardcoded it this way:

The patch notes say

- DoT spells have all had their duration slightly increased. If the
monster moves for 18 seconds during a fight, it will take as much
damage from the DoT as it would before the patch. If the monster moves
for less then 18 seconds during a fight, your DoT will do more damage
then it would have done before the patch. If the monster moves more
then 18 seconds during the fight, it will take less damage then it
would have before the patch.

We can interpret this as less than 3 ticks, 3 ticks, and greater than 3 ticks. Assuming the change added 1 extra tick at the end of DOTs, the one extra new tick would result in more damage than before if the mob took only 2 ticks at .66x, as much damage if the mob took 3 ticks at .66x, and less damage if the mob took more than 3 ticks at .66x.

[Nirgon]

We definitely notice this in pvp with splurt coming short of killing casters if they don't dispel it

Watched many a scum who didn't pell himself die from just a splurt on RZ

[derpcake]

The discussion on splurt has been lengty, tons of proof provided.

I wish it got fixed. If other DoTs also suffer from this, /sadface

[Nycon43]

Lets get this looked at

Paging Professor Daldaen

[koros]

Yet more proof that every single dot does 1 more tick than is listed.

http://www.goberserker.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3106&page=3

"Curse of spirits (epic dot) - 1413 total damage, ~1128 aggro generated, ~.798 aggro to damage ratio.

Plague 60 + (22 X 55) - 1270 total damage, ~1044 aggro generated, ~.82 aggro to damage ratio.

Ice Strike (675 cold nuke) - 675 base damage, ~534 aggro generated, ~.79 aggro to damage ratio.

Blast of Poison (400 poison nuke) - 400 base damage, ~312 aggro generated, ~.78 aggro to damage ratio.

Venom of the snake 40 + (8 X 59) - 512 total damage, ~900 aggro, ~1.75 aggro to damage ratio.

Ebolt 110 + (8 X 146) - 1278 total damage, ~1596 aggro generated, ~1.25 aggro to damage ratio."

Plague is 21 ticks listed but does 22, VoS 7 listed but does 8, Ebolt 7 listed but does 8.

[derpcake]

Yet more proof that every single dot does 1 more tick than is listed.

http://www.goberserker.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3106&page=3

I stopped reading when you quoted a site that was made years after classic.

Info by Brael was great back then, but its 2006 info man.

[koros]

Info from after the fact isn't important by itself, but when it confirms the narrative it's valuable. You can see on http://lucy.allakhazam.com/ that the duration for those spells was 1 tick less than they reported.

[Treats]

It may just depend on when the DoT lands and when the first tic occurs.

You can see this with Topor and Celestial Elixir, sometimes the heal results in 5 tics.

I imagine it would work the same for DoT damage.

[koros]

Would be easy to notice if splurt was doing different damage on the last tick if that was the case. Reports are consistent on 203 last tick damage.

[koros]

Post is era appropriate, shows how all druid dots are one tick longer than they are in the spell file. Please fix this.

http://www.thedruidsgrove.org/archive/eq/t-3883.html

[koros]

Bump, this is a pretty big issue for dot classes. Nearly 400 damage is missing off splurt at present.

Here's winged death, listed at 9 ticks. Duration has never changed on lucy since the DB was made public in march 2002.

http://lucy.allakhazam.com/spellhistory.html?id=1601&source=Live

Yet every site mentions 10 ticks. There's even the patch notes I mentioned which explicitly mention that they raised dot duration, but no changes were made in the spell files.

http://www.thedruidsgrove.org/archive/eq/t-3883.html

Scirocco
07-03-2001, 06:23 AM
Scirocco's thorough discussion of this topic is right on target, as I tested this about a year ago, around the time of the "kiting nerf".

Against a stationary target, DoTs do MORE damage than the amount listed in EQ Caster. There is a server side bonus of approximately 12% for the high level spells. I first noticed this when I was playing a shaman long ago and saw that two envenomed bolts (listed as 1132 damage per shot, or 2264 together) would always kill a sand giant of any level if rooted, but two ice comets (1120 each, or 2240 total) would not, leaving a visible amount of health (more than the 24 differential). I then saw the ShowEQ data that listed SG hit points as 2472 + 20/level (maximum 2552), and it all made sense - the two envenomed bolts were doing at least 2552 damage, if the ShowEQ data was correct.

[Victorio]

Bump

[Nycon43]

Bump.

[eisley]

Yep. Anyone who played a pvp server as a necro or shaman, knows how many ticks ebolt was. 8 on enemies, 9 on yourself.

Time for this one to be squashed.

[koros]

Bump. There's even patch note proof of this change.

[Daldaen]

I approve of this.

[Nirgon]

very noticable with splurt/winged death in pvp as compared to how hard these spells hit on live if not dispelled

signed,
not a druid or necro

[eisley]

It'd be nice to get the optional bonus tick too, but one step at a time I spose. We really need the +1 to all DoTs added.

[blondeattk]

agree on this, was a thing.

[koros]

.

[Nycon43]

Bump.

[Haynar]

So should the bonus tick on dots, be just for PvP?

H

[Cecily]

All DoTs in general. There's no reason it would be PvP specific.

[Haynar]

And this does not include the "optional" tick, that sometimes happens, but not always?

H

[Grimjaw]

ya splurt and sounds like all dots are still 1 tick short (not even including the possible bonus tick if timed right with the server 6sec tic)

[Haynar]

Gonna have to take more data to try and figure out how the sometimes bonus tick mechanics work. Might be a simple rounding. Not sure.

H

[kanras]

Pending update, all buff durations gain an extra tic relative to spdat except for those that use buffdurationformula 4 and 5 (these are mostly all bard songs).

You still won't see 203 (will be 191 on final tic now) on splurt until velious due to the final tic being added somewhere between the kunark and velious spdats.

[Daldaen]

[Mon May 25 17:28:07 2015] Phoboplasm's body begins to splurt.
[Mon May 25 17:28:11 2015] phoboplasm has taken 11 damage from your Splurt.
[Mon May 25 17:28:17 2015] phoboplasm has taken 23 damage from your Splurt.
[Mon May 25 17:28:23 2015] phoboplasm has taken 35 damage from your Splurt.
[Mon May 25 17:28:29 2015] phoboplasm has taken 47 damage from your Splurt.
[Mon May 25 17:28:35 2015] phoboplasm has taken 59 damage from your Splurt.
[Mon May 25 17:28:41 2015] phoboplasm has taken 71 damage from your Splurt.
[Mon May 25 17:28:47 2015] phoboplasm has taken 83 damage from your Splurt.
[Mon May 25 17:28:53 2015] phoboplasm has taken 95 damage from your Splurt.
[Mon May 25 17:28:59 2015] phoboplasm has taken 107 damage from your Splurt.
[Mon May 25 17:29:05 2015] phoboplasm has taken 119 damage from your Splurt.
[Mon May 25 17:29:11 2015] phoboplasm has taken 131 damage from your Splurt.
[Mon May 25 17:29:17 2015] phoboplasm has taken 143 damage from your Splurt.
[Mon May 25 17:29:23 2015] phoboplasm has taken 155 damage from your Splurt.
[Mon May 25 17:29:29 2015] phoboplasm has taken 167 damage from your Splurt.
[Mon May 25 17:29:35 2015] phoboplasm has taken 179 damage from your Splurt.
[Mon May 25 17:29:35 2015] Your Splurt spell has worn off.

Thats 15 ticks.

The spdat from just before Velious shows 16 ticks:

Splurt
Hit Points (HP) - Unknown Formula


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Classes: Nec (L51)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Range to Target: 200 feet

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Skill: Alteration
Allowable Targets: All

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Resistance Check: Magic

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mana Required: 237
Spell Duration: 16 ticks (1.6 minutes)
Duration Formula: 1
Casting Time: 4.0 seconds
Spell Recovery: 2.50 seconds

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Spell cast on you: Your body begins to splurt.
Spell cast on someone: Soandso's body begins to splurt.
Spell fades: Your body stops splurting.


/thumbs up on the fix but I believe Splurt should have the 16 tick base duration + this global additional tick right now, not at some point later in Velious?

[kanras]

Currently it's scheduled to be on velious release. I don't have a spdat that's just before velious. The two that I do have are 3/4/2000 and 2/8/2001. Where's this other one coming from?

[Daldaen]

Currently it's scheduled to be on velious release. I don't have a spdat that's just before velious. The two that I do have are 3/4/2000 and 2/8/2001. Where's this other one coming from?


https://web.archive.org/web/*/http://www.everquest.com.tw/download/*


They are readable using the earlier versions of EQCaster found here:


https://web.archive.org/web/20010517002838/http://www.eqcaster.com/Download/EqCaster.zip



Ele discovered that you can wayback the everquest.com website and it has an archive of the downloads from 2000-2001, so theres a download pre-Velious with the spell file included that I am using.

[worch]

Pending update, all buff durations gain an extra tic relative to spdat except for those that use buffdurationformula 4 and 5 (these are mostly all bard songs).

Does this mean that bards' dots are excluded in this change? If so, why? To my understanding, the evidence in the OP's post seems to support that all dots are affected.

[Daldaen]

Currently it's scheduled to be on velious release. I don't have a spdat that's just before velious. The two that I do have are 3/4/2000 and 2/8/2001. Where's this other one coming from?

https://web.archive.org/web/*/http://www.everquest.com.tw/download/*


They are readable using the earlier versions of EQCaster found here:


https://web.archive.org/web/20010517002838/http://www.eqcaster.com/Download/EqCaster.zip



Ele discovered that you can wayback the everquest.com website and it has an archive of the downloads from 2000-2001, so theres a download pre-Velious with the spell file included that I am using.

Kanras have you had a chance to look at the links I provided here? Would love to get Splurt to its correct 16 tick duration + 1 global tick addition.

[eisley]

We also still lack the potential "bonus" tick. Depending when the spell landed, you could possibly get an additional tick based on the mechanics of the "server tick". Spells such as Torpor do this already properly, sometimes giving a bonus tick. DoTs do not.

However, we did make huge progress with the +1 ticks. Bane finally being 8 ticks and shm epic gaining the 179 tick finally make me very happy, and I am very appreciative for the fix.

[Dalven]

Perhaps related - previous to the patch when fear kiting on my bard I typically roll snare/fear/dot/dot with no breaks on snare or fear before starting the cycle again. When fear kiting today and rolling the same songs both snare and fear would be breaking towards the end of the second dot or at the beginning of the re-snare cast. Is this as intended? Offensive bard songs have always rolled for 3 ticks giving ample time to twist 4 offensive songs, now this is impossible.

[Valtiel]

Someone plz think of the bards, our dots are short enough already.

[Uteunayr]

Two issues remain post patch that I think would be easily fixed.

1- The "Bond of Death" type of spell for necromancer which ticks and heals, only the damage ticks have been upped in line with the server bonus tick this thread is all about. The healing part has not. Since Project 1999 treats these as two separate effects, you can see the Mordinia fade (the healing part) prior to the spell dropping off:

[Fri Jun 12 10:12:25 2015] Spectral commander staggers under the curse of Vexing Mordinia.
[Fri Jun 12 10:12:29 2015] spectral commander has taken 111 damage from your Vexing Mordinia.
[Fri Jun 12 10:12:35 2015] spectral commander has taken 111 damage from your Vexing Mordinia.
[Fri Jun 12 10:12:41 2015] spectral commander has taken 111 damage from your Vexing Mordinia.
[Fri Jun 12 10:12:47 2015] spectral commander has taken 111 damage from your Vexing Mordinia.
[Fri Jun 12 10:12:53 2015] spectral commander has taken 111 damage from your Vexing Mordinia.
[Fri Jun 12 10:12:59 2015] spectral commander has taken 111 damage from your Vexing Mordinia.
[Fri Jun 12 10:13:05 2015] spectral commander has taken 111 damage from your Vexing Mordinia.
[Fri Jun 12 10:13:11 2015] spectral commander has taken 111 damage from your Vexing Mordinia.
[Fri Jun 12 10:13:17 2015] spectral commander has taken 111 damage from your Vexing Mordinia.
[Fri Jun 12 10:13:21 2015] The Mordinia fades.
[Fri Jun 12 10:13:23 2015] spectral commander has taken 111 damage from your Vexing Mordinia.
[Fri Jun 12 10:13:23 2015] Your Vexing Mordinia spell has worn off.

I need to do more testing on this to get the raw healing amount, but the order makes it seem as if it is dropping off early. But it could just be a weird timing error. I know the Soul Well effect does the same as this. Since I don't get any feedback on healing ticks, I can't just count the lines as I can for the damage part of this. I'll report back when I know more.

2- Splurt is a tick too short still. The spread between Cessation of Cor and Splurt should be 6, with Splurt ticking 6 more times. If Cessation is now doing 11 to account for this server tick, than Splurt should be doing 17. If Cessation is doing 10, then Splurt should be doing 16.

Earlier on in the thread, someone posted a link to a comment from 2003 reading this:

11, 23, 35, 47, 59, 71, 83, 95, 107, 119, 131, 143, 155, 167, 179, 191, 203.

As the damage progression for Splurt. This is accurate to Splurt on Project 1999 except for the 203 tick. I am unaware of anything between 2001 and 2003 that would have altered this to add a tick to Splurt, there's only the 1999 patch notes linked in the OP.

So Splurt appears to be 1 tick short still.

http://www.necrotalk.com/archive/index.php/t-158.html

http://www.necrotalk.com/archive/index.php/t-2181.html

Both showing 17 ticks. For the record, it still shows as 1.6 minutes on lucy and has never been changed.

[Duff73]

The dot fix has had unintended consequences as it appears to have shortened all bard songs as they "tick" like dots. My 4 song rotation is now 3. Which is fairly troublesome. Has Haynar taken a look at this? I know they know about the move speed issue as it was a global problem but have they said anything about the dot ticks?

[koros]

Pending update, all buff durations gain an extra tic relative to spdat except for those that use buffdurationformula 4 and 5 (these are mostly all bard songs).

You still won't see 203 (will be 191 on final tic now) on splurt until velious due to the final tic being added somewhere between the kunark and velious spdats.

Splurt was always 16 ticks base. Proof:

4/28/2000 patch file

https://web.archive.org/web/20010613041321/http://www.everquest.com.tw/download/patch/EQ_Patch_20000428.zip

And as parsed by eqcaster:

Splurt
Hit Points (HP) - Unknown Formula


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Classes: Nec (L51)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Range to Target: 200 feet

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Skill: Alteration
Allowable Targets: All

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Resistance Check: Magic

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mana Required: 237
Spell Duration: 16 ticks (1.6 minutes)
Duration Formula: 1
Casting Time: 4.0 seconds
Spell Recovery: 2.50 seconds

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Spell cast on you: Your body begins to splurt.
Spell cast on someone: Soandso's body begins to splurt.
Spell fades: Your body does not splurt.


I'm out til Velious. You're welcome necros/dot casters.