Nihilist Zeegarn / Nihilist Yeegarn incorrect item drop table

[tristantio]

Hey all, these two are located in front of the Cabilis Necro guild. They are supposed to drop the following 3 items (one being a SHD usable robe although NO RENT):

Drape of the Nihilist:
http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/item.html?item=75396

Nihilist Forecap:
http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/item.html?item=75397

Nihilist Battlestaff:
http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/item.html?item=75398

Instead I got these:

Dark Stained Training Robe (ugh, DEF NEC only, these mobs are IKS SHD)
http://wiki.project1999.com/Dark_Stained_Training_Robe

Rod of Battle (sort of a cool surprise but incorrect)
http://wiki.project1999.com/Rod_of_Battle

[tristantio]

Ok, on further research, it seems the 3 items I'm referring to must have came much later (judging by the item ID tags and the items that come up just before and after said items), please feel free to close.

[Nirgon]

looks classic, the rod of battle is a kaesora drop that also appeared in cab

kind of like how robe of enshroudment drops in neriak but is also a solro temple quest item

sell value I researched to also be correct 180pp and change from ZAM

[nilbog]

Fixed, pending update

From my research, they should drop the Rod, just not every time. Also, increased their respawn time to 28 minutes, fixed their hp and class.


Also, they are invulnerable in game until next patch, on pve/pvp servers.

[Nirgon]

it is classic, pras

in town guards being charmable allowed this and they should have insanely high resists like the Grobb ones that were fixed

[Itap]

Fixed, pending update

From my research, they should drop the Rod, just not every time. Also, increased their respawn time to 28 minutes, fixed their hp and class.


Also, they are invulnerable in game until next patch, on pve/pvp servers.

Pras

[Agatha]

so nirgon you were aware of this 7 months ago, yet your on every other classic fix like white on rice, you covered this up instead of 7 months for your guild.

anyways, thanks for your help nilbog. Any word on if you guys are going to run down the plat and see who RMT'd it?

[Nirgon]

reported town guards months (years?) ago, the mob classicly drops this item

try killing it without a charmed guard

buzz off, familyvalues111

[Sorkail]

Pras

probably a newb question: what does "pras" mean?

[pasi]

From my research, they should drop the Rod, just not every time.

I agree with your decision, but I would like to see the evidence for this.

Your statement has 2 parts to it.
1) These NPCs can drop the Rod of Battle
2) The frequency for the Rod of Battle is less than 100%.

I wasn't even able to find anything on #1, let alone #2. I didn't go super in-depth on this, but there's nothing to be found in the easy spots.

Just curious is all. I have shiny Azeroth gold for your time.

[Agatha]

I agree with your decision, but I would like to see the evidence for this.

Your statement has 2 parts to it.
1) These NPCs can drop the Rod of Battle
2) The frequency for the Rod of Battle is less than 100%.

I wasn't even able to find anything on #1, let alone #2. I didn't go super in-depth on this, but there's nothing to be found in the easy spots.

Just curious is all. I have shiny Azeroth gold for your time.

nirgon says it does, that what it does.

[tristantio]

These are easy kills as a 60 necro, when I went to get the robe for my SHD (which they didn't end up having) it was as easy as root rot (root + fd to break the dual spawn).

Then as the mob gets low life, feign death and let pet (specter) finish it off to avoid any faction loss as an iksar necro (a byproduct of us not being able to have faction mods while FD due to pet afk killin while FD).

Pretty crazy 360pp every 7 minutes as a solo iks nec - I can see why they'd be nerfed, but I didn't see anything saying the rod was not 100% drop rate (other than us needing a non classic nerf for balance reasons, grinding out close to 3500pp/hour solo is pretty nuts).

[tristantio]

Also, the patrolling guards do not assist them in anyway (if you're good faction with the guards) - but I think that's the same as if you attack the necro guild leaders (guards don't assist them as they're on their own faction, just like the nihilists).

[ElemtalRZ]

http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/item.html?item=75398

This is what drops off the mob currently on Everquest live...

[pasi]

Pretty crazy 360pp every 7 minutes as a solo iks nec - I can see why they'd be nerfed, but I didn't see anything saying the rod was not 100% drop rate (other than us needing a non classic nerf for balance reasons, grinding out close to 3500pp/hour solo is pretty nuts).

Do you have anything that shows these guys dropping the Rod of Battle on live or that mentions the drop rate? I'm genuinely curious.

[tristantio]

Not at the moment, from my first 2 posts I drew the following conclusion:

The 3 items I had wanted (the NO RENT ones) were added later given the item IDs they had got.

Classic mobs drop the weapons they are shown wielding.

Only Rod of Battle has the spike staff graphic, and the nihilists always have the rod displayed, therefore they must always drop it.

Or are the nihilists going to show up with a weapon now and not actually drop it?

[tristantio]

Not sure how classic this page is, but:
http://imperiumserver.org/AllaClone/npc.php?id=82027

Shows a 10 min repop (not 28 min) and a 10k hp warrior class mob (so hopefully they don't turn into necros or shadow knights, despite their gear selections).

[tristantio]

From what I'm seeing:
http://www.chroniclesofnorrath.com/wiki/index.php/Nihilist_Yeegarn_(82027)

they should also drop a leather cap (they do not currently)

[pasi]

Not at the moment, from my first 2 posts I drew the following conclusion:

The 3 items I had wanted (the NO RENT ones) were added later given the item IDs they had got.

Classic mobs drop the weapons they are shown wielding.

Only Rod of Battle has the spike staff graphic, and the nihilists always have the rod displayed, therefore they must always drop it.

Or are the nihilists going to show up with a weapon now and not actually drop it?

That's pretty reasonable logic.

Couple things:

I'm not entirely sure on the Rod of Battle being the only Kunark item with that graphic though. I mean this literally. I'm really not sure.

And the point about mobs dropping the weapons they are shown wielding is unfortunately not always the case. I encountered this a lot sniping Chardok SoS/shields before the time of AE groups. Most of the Sarnaks who were holding a stave did not drop either a SoS, Burnished Wooden Stave, or anything else. Just an empty corpse. Though I will concede that this statement is correct 99% of the time.

Anyhow, I'll toss up 500pp blue (or 5g on Nostralius to anyone starting out there) to anyone who can find confirmatory evidence of these guys dropping the Rods of Battle on live.

[Nirgon]

There was some super garbage item with the same graphic but staff of battle from Kaesora is more likely.

Agree on leather cap.

Where does that link determine these were a 10min respawn? Lots of NPCs we know their actual hp from someone using hacks back in the day... but did that also reveal respawn?

[Agatha]

thank you for everyone trying to get this worked out, i admit this is way beyond my scope.

[oricalum]

thank you for everyone trying to get this worked out, i admit this is way beyond my scope.

Breathing alone is almost beyond your scope, thank the gods you figured it out though.

[pasi]

Ok, so I did a guru search on the idfile of the weapon. Basically, this will return any item that shares the same graphics.

Search Results of Items with Similar Graphics (http://eqitems.13th-floor.org/itemsearch.php?searchtype=advanced&field_0=items.idfile&compare_0=%3D&text_0=IT111&next_0=0&field_1=&compare_1=&text_1=&next_1=0&field_2=&compare_2=&text_2=&next_2=0&field_3=&compare_3=&text_3=&next_3=0&field_4=&compare_4=&text_4=&next_4=0)

The only items that would have this graphic in Kunark were the Rod of Battle and the Nihilist Battlestaff. So, it's definitely one of those two items.

However, I would like to re-visit Nihilist Battle Staff. The item IDs that you originally posted were Allakhazam's IDs. Allakhazam assigns IDs based on when they get added to Allakhazam. A better indicator of when an item was added to the game would be the actual in-game ID which you can find on Lucy. For the Nihilist Battlestaff, that ID would be 12842.

http://lucy.allakhazam.com/item.html?id=12842

The IDs of 12840 to 12842 puts these items in the time-line of added at launch with Kunark. You can look at items with similar numbers Here (http://eqitems.13th-floor.org/itemsearch.php?searchtype=advanced&field_0=items.id&compare_0=%3E%3D&text_0=12800&next_0=1&field_1=items.id&compare_1=%3C%3D&text_1=13000&next_1=0&field_2=&compare_2=&text_2=&next_2=0&field_3=&compare_3=&text_3=&next_3=0&field_4=&compare_4=&text_4=&next_4=0)

Item IDs are not fullproof as occasionally an item ID will get modified instead of creating a new ID such as in the case of these bad boys (http://lucy.allakhazam.com/item.html?id=12816). Overall though, it's a pretty accurate way of assessing when an item was added to the game (different from it being acquired).

My opinion of this (for what it's worth) is that it seems to be the case that these Nihilists should be dropping their Nihilist gear at this stage.

[tristantio]

Well, I hope they do without being made too strong, as I want the robe

[nilbog]

Ok, so I did a guru search on the idfile of the weapon. Basically, this will return any item that shares the same graphics.

Search Results of Items with Similar Graphics (http://eqitems.13th-floor.org/itemsearch.php?searchtype=advanced&field_0=items.idfile&compare_0=%3D&text_0=IT111&next_0=0&field_1=&compare_1=&text_1=&next_1=0&field_2=&compare_2=&text_2=&next_2=0&field_3=&compare_3=&text_3=&next_3=0&field_4=&compare_4=&text_4=&next_4=0)

The only items that would have this graphic in Kunark were the Rod of Battle and the Nihilist Battlestaff. So, it's definitely one of those two items.

However, I would like to re-visit Nihilist Battle Staff. The item IDs that you originally posted were Allakhazam's IDs. Allakhazam assigns IDs based on when they get added to Allakhazam. A better indicator of when an item was added to the game would be the actual in-game ID which you can find on Lucy. For the Nihilist Battlestaff, that ID would be 12842.

http://lucy.allakhazam.com/item.html?id=12842

The IDs of 12840 to 12842 puts these items in the time-line of added at launch with Kunark. You can look at items with similar numbers Here (http://eqitems.13th-floor.org/itemsearch.php?searchtype=advanced&field_0=items.id&compare_0=%3E%3D&text_0=12800&next_0=1&field_1=items.id&compare_1=%3C%3D&text_1=13000&next_1=0&field_2=&compare_2=&text_2=&next_2=0&field_3=&compare_3=&text_3=&next_3=0&field_4=&compare_4=&text_4=&next_4=0)

Item IDs are not fullproof as occasionally an item ID will get modified instead of creating a new ID such as in the case of these bad boys (http://lucy.allakhazam.com/item.html?id=12816). Overall though, it's a pretty accurate way of assessing when an item was added to the game (different from it being acquired).

My opinion of this (for what it's worth) is that it seems to be the case that these Nihilists should be dropping their Nihilist gear at this stage.

Initially I thought that was gonna be the quick and easy fix. My first thought was.. similar to yours, see what other items use the same graphic.

select id,name from items where idfile = 'IT111'
3677 Lady Zavo's Toothpick
6657 Rod of Battle
27927 Rubicite Staff
31797 A Sambata Tribal Club
32332 Goranga Tribal Club
83914 Lake Tamer Staff
89010 Studded Bashing Staff

Then I found the battlestaff didn't exist in the database. That is usually indicative of non classic. I did find a classic shot (http://zam.zamimg.com/images/i/d/id4693.png) of the Nihilist npc with a staff with that graphic. (Either a classic shot, or a shot from a client using the old npc font in, at least.)

I am setting the Rod of Battle drop from Nihilists to 0, until this is completely figured out.

[pasi]

It's interesting that your database doesn't return Tnor'tesphi (an artifact) on the search since that should have been in the game before the Sambata and Goranga clubs.

Lucy usually requires an item to be seen in game by someone running the item collector. However, there's also a lot of stuff that was never acquirable in game up on Lucy. I don't know if your database would have require it to hit with item collector first (before it got uploaded a couple years ago).

The argument for Nihilist Battlestaff:
1) The NPC currently drops the staff, the robe, and the helmet, all of which she is showing graphically in screenshots.
2) The Battlestaff, Robe, and Helmet all have item IDs surrounded by other Kunark-launch items.
3) The fact that the item IDs are all consecutive (12840, 12841, 12842) even further supports that these items were ADDED with Kunark as opposed to developers adding new items by MODIFYING old item IDs. I posted the Askr's Gauntlets example where a PoP item has a Kunark ID. When this happens, it's usually a single point mutation. The other Askr's items all have PoP item IDs.

The argument in favor of Rod of Battle:
1) The database did not have Nihilist Battlestaff until way later.
2) The only other item with that graphic is Rod of Battle

There's really no satisfying answer here.

For me, the most convincing argument is the consecutive item IDs between other Kunark items. Although, you wouldn't be wrong by going in either direction.

[Man0warr]

Even if not classic, adding in ~80k plat per day to the economy sounds damaging - this is way better raw plat generation than say Seafuries.

Should be removed for that alone, and is probably the reason it was changed on Live as well.

I never saw people farming them on Blue when going through Cabilis until recently (been someone there for last 3-4 weeks), so I'm guessing they saw someone on Red doing it where apparently it's been happening for months and months.

[pasi]

Should be removed for that alone, and is probably the reason it was changed on Live as well.


Just to avoid confusion here: There is no hard evidence showing that the Nihilists ever dropped the Rod of Battle on EQlive. You're not only making that claim, but also making the claim that it was probably changed due to abuse on EQlive. If we knew the first part of that equation, this thread wouldn't be on the bugs forum. If it was abused on live to the point of change, we would hopefully have anything (other than the graphic) to link the Rod of Battle to the Nihilists.

Anyhow, I will say that I do like the idea of giving some use to cities. I always liked that people exp'd in Oggok, fear kited in Freeport, grouped the instant spawn guard in Freeport, and even did 50-60 in Neriak and Felwithe.

While the plat generated is likely too high, the camp would still be useful with say ~10 minute respawns and a 50% droprate. It would still be about 1k/hour of pure plat and doable while semi-AFK.

Unfortunately, I don't think they ever did drop the Rod.

[tristantio]

I may have started the farm trend on blue as I did kill a few after making this thread, and I'm sure some people saw me or saw the rods on the vendor 1 building over, but I never saw them farming on red, I wanted the no drop robe shd usable since it saw it on alla (i tried killing them a year or so ago and got beat down at low 50s).

If this was a secret farm on red for guilds it was pure coincidence (and i suppose bad luck for them that I found on blue)

[tristantio]

Although even if it added 1 million plat a day should be irrelevant in the pursuit of classic (if we could show it was)

[Grimjaw]

isnt it possible for NPC to show a weapon graphic without actually dropping a weapon? Maybe thats how it worked in classic for these NPCs

[Vandy]

Not sure how classic this page is, but:
http://imperiumserver.org/AllaClone/npc.php?id=82027

Shows a 10 min repop (not 28 min) and a 10k hp warrior class mob (so hopefully they don't turn into necros or shadow knights, despite their gear selections).

That link is to a website that displays a copy of the peq database. Nothing from there should be used as a reference for classic everquest. Those are default settings on a fresh db install.

[Slathar]

thanks to our wonderful gm staff for all of their hard work. love me some classic EQ.

[koros]

Nilbog. What is the source of your db? Is it an actual VI db from the era or something more akin to lucy/magelo? A lot of items that were in the db never got discovered/uploaded to external dbs (either never discovered because there was no mob that dropped it, the few people who ever killed some of these npcs never uploaded them, or they were the result of otherwise unsolved obscure quests)

Like this item

http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/item.html?item=3671

It was on allakhzam pre kunark, and no one knows how the quest was solved/item discovered.

[koros]

Also, although this mostly seems to be settled, this item is directly consecutive to the Nihilist items and is a known classic drop found on necro GMs and npcs. Seems to definitely conform to Rod of Battle not being the classic drop.

http://lucy.allakhazam.com/item.html?id=12843

http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/quest.html?quest=221

question
Quote
Reply
#Jun 17 2002 at 8:25 PMRating: Default
Anonymous
Anonymous
Has anyon tried killing the hermit it is possible he may drop a clue to the whole thing.
▲ Page top
RE: question
Quote
Reply
#Sep 12 2002 at 11:09 AMRating: Decent
Smaaug
11 posts
Yes,

He drops the Drape of the Scholars