Save the Server, Allow guild instanced raid zones

[scooter]

Petition quest = out of control and back logged to Kunark

Allow everyone to enjoy the game

[portbitch69]

This is classic everquest man, fuck off with ur instanced shit

[Verenity]

Nah, /guildwar would be a much better investment of time/resources.

[maestrom]

I agree 100% that Everquest SHOULD have instanced raid zones.

However shit's not classic and really shouldn't be here.

Now. If only we could clone rogean and nilbog + crew, and have them release a server identical to P99 content/systemwise but with instanced raid content...

[myriverse]

Petition quest = out of control and back logged to Kunark

Allow everyone to enjoy the game
^ Save the server... from people like this.

[Ravager]

Nah, /guildwar would be a much better investment of time/resources.

[Ele]

Really want that white dragonscale helm don't ya?

[azeth]

I'd say the only "difficulty" remaining on P99 is competing with other guilds for raid targets.

So now we want to remove competition? Why not just play on one of the underpopulated EQEMU servers?

[maskedmelon]

Not classic :/

Have you considered red? ^^ <3

[Pyrocat]

Petition quest = out of control and back logged to Kunark

Allow everyone to enjoy the game

haha get fucked :D

[OfftuneRZ]

Play on red99.

[dafier]

Play WoW instead.

[Daldaen]

Pass. I'd prefer classic please.

2-3 sim Repops a month / 2-3 server resets a month.
No variance in Kunark.
Sim Repops reset spawn times for all mobs.
Velious city leaders have 0 variance.
Dragon Roar has 0 resist check instead of -150.
Zlandicar's Stun is single target.
No flurry drakes roam in triplets hallway.
Vulak drops 3 items every kill.

All the above would make the raid scene much Better. Mobs being spread across 3-4 days requires you have a ton of all-hour neckbeards to compete. With more frequent sim Repops and Windows being reset constantly, it doesn't give Velious variance a chance to spread them all over the place.

[azeth]

Pass. I'd prefer classic please.

2-3 sim Repops a month / 2-3 server resets a month.
No variance in Kunark.
Sim Repops reset spawn times for all mobs.
Velious city leaders have 0 variance.
Dragon Roar has 0 resist check instead of -150.
Zlandicar's Stun is single target.
No flurry drakes roam in triplets hallway.
Vulak drops 3 items every kill.

All the above would make the raid scene much Better. Mobs being spread across 3-4 days requires you have a ton of all-hour neckbeards to compete. With more frequent sim Repops and Windows being reset constantly, it doesn't give Velious variance a chance to spread them all over the place.

accurate. making the raid scene accessible & slightly easier is indeed the fix. a fix i personally will not benefit from, but a fix.

[Morlaeth]

EQ is an easy game. Literally the only challenge is beating the competition to merbs.

CAW CAW

[rayeatts]

What I think would be really cool is if there was an end game dragon that kept getting slightly stronger each time after it was killed until finally it was too strong for any guild to kill. If it remained alive and no one was able to kill it then maybe a couple of guilds would team up and try to take it down. Then the process would continue until it was finally so strong that not even 5 or more guilds working together could destroy it. Then once it reached this point and remained unbeaten for an extended period of time, the whole process starts over but with the dragon having new random abilities that no one is prepared for.

[indiscriminate_hater]

i think OP in on to something here guys

[jcr4990]

There's a huge part of me that would love to see instances. Be able to raid mobs on a schedule with my pals and not have to log on crazy hours for certain targets. I see the allure of it for certain.

On the other hand I also realize that about 90% of the difficulty of raiding in EQ is beating other guilds to the target. How many raid mobs in EQ are actually difficult to kill if you have unlimited time to prepare and can engage at primetime hours with a full raid force? Very few my friends. Very few.

[Nibblewitz]

i think OP in on to something here guys

I agree! The backlog of petitions reminds me of a RL justice system. Such immersion.

[maestrom]

There's some question begging going on here.

Is EQ supposed to be hard?

EQ is an organic difficulty game. Mobs/camps have a fixed difficulty and you're either strong enough for the encounter or you're not. You can make it easier on yourself (twinking a monk) or you can make it harder on yourself (soloing an untwinked rogue).

If you want difficulty, you can look through the solo challenges. You can try to 1 group VS. Trio Arena. Do some really innovative charming.

Logging on at 5pm and not being able to raid because all the targets are dead or not in window does not make the game "difficult". It makes it unavailable. You can practice and get better at difficult things. No matter how much I practice, I can't log in when I'm not home.

Of course rampage argues that the game needs to stay the way it is and that this is the best form of the game--this is the form of game that benefits them the most.

You can argue that competitive raid scenes are classic, but many servers had GM run rotations. You can also argue that because some servers had "competitive" raid scenes that P99 should continue to be a competitive raid server. I can speak from experience that leapfrogging and the current FTE rules were not what GM's enforced on Nameless (first guild with a raid force in zone was the rule there--a rule that I have refined and advocated elsewhere on the forum).

You really can't argue that the current state of competition on this server adds anything "difficult".

[Morlaeth]

Instancing not classic.

CAW CAW

/thread

[jcr4990]

You really can't argue that the current state of competition on this server adds anything "difficult".
I disagree 1000%

I don't think theres much of an argument for challenge in the P99 raid scene outside of the race for targets and maybe a couple of the hardest encounters in the game (Tunare and such) I can't think of a single raid target I've personally killed that would be anywhere near difficult if there was no competition for it. Unlimited time to buff/med and setup/test CH rotations and tank/ramp tank assignments and such = Nearly every fight in EQ is ezmode. Not to mention if theres no competition you can wait for primetime hours and get all your best raiders online at the same time. The ONLY hard part about raiding here is the race. Sorry.

[indiscriminate_hater]

I disagree 1000%

I don't think theres much of an argument for challenge in the P99 raid scene outside of the race for targets and maybe a couple of the hardest encounters in the game (Tunare and such) I can't think of a single raid target I've personally killed that would be anywhere near difficult if there was no competition for it. Unlimited time to buff/med and setup/test CH rotations and tank/ramp tank assignments and such = Nearly every fight in EQ is ezmode. Not to mention if theres no competition you can wait for primetime hours and get all your best raiders online at the same time. The ONLY hard part about raiding here is the race. Sorry.

learn2play

[maestrom]

I disagree 1000%

I don't think theres much of an argument for challenge in the P99 raid scene outside of the race for targets and maybe a couple of the hardest encounters in the game (Tunare and such) I can't think of a single raid target I've personally killed that would be anywhere near difficult if there was no competition for it. Unlimited time to buff/med and setup/test CH rotations and tank/ramp tank assignments and such = Nearly every fight in EQ is ezmode. Not to mention if theres no competition you can wait for primetime hours and get all your best raiders online at the same time. The ONLY hard part about raiding here is the race. Sorry.

You missed my point.

Who says EQ is supposed to be hard? EQ is a fixed difficulty game, for example Puma's in EC don't have more HPS/DPS based on your level or class.

You're either strong enough to kill the puma or you're not. There is a very narrow band where you're just barely strong enough to kill a puma where your skill actually matters and then it is "hard", but the vast majority of pumas are killed either quite routinely, or they smash the person trying to kill them.

Swap out "puma" for everything in this game.

If you want a harder game, you roll in with barely enough people to kill a monster. If you want an easier game, you bring 80 people. This is called "organic" difficulty--where you decided how hard something is not by changing a setting in the options menu but instead of practicing the game or bringing more people.

The "difficulty" described in your example is in getting enough people in your guild who work from home. That's not really everquest-related. It's also not difficulty related because its not really skill-based.

What you're really saying is, you think that Everquest raid targets should only go to those people who prioritize them high enough and who are flexible enough to get to them, and if you don't prioritize them enough and you're not flexible enough, someone else will take them from you. That's fine, you're not alone. But that's not "difficult".

Edit: I think there is an argument for difficulty in P99, actually. My guild was in Kael arena last week and Vindi popped. No other guilds in the zone, we would have had a clear shot at him. He was up for another hour before someone else came in and killed him (might actually have been BDA). We didn't kill him because we would have gotten killed. We could have stayed there for a full hour getting our Cheal rotation just right and buffing and executing a perfect pull. We also could have had everyone in the raid do their jobs perfectly and we still would have lost. This is because Vindi is too hard for us. When you say EQ isn't hard enough without competition, you mean your guild doesn't have any problem of taking down any target in the game given enough time. So why should your need for some non-everquest element be added to my everquest game? FTE is the rule here and that's fine--you guys have convinced the staff to cater to you when making raid rules. OP and I think it should go differently.

[azeth]

naw

[Redi]

Rather see more xpacs than instances. Coomeeee on pop!

[maestrom]

Rather see more xpacs than instances. Coomeeee on pop!

[jcr4990]

You missed my point.

Who says EQ is supposed to be hard? EQ is a fixed difficulty game, for example Puma's in EC don't have more HPS/DPS based on your level or class.

You're either strong enough to kill the puma or you're not. There is a very narrow band where you're just barely strong enough to kill a puma where your skill actually matters and then it is "hard", but the vast majority of pumas are killed either quite routinely, or they smash the person trying to kill them.

Swap out "puma" for everything in this game.

If you want a harder game, you roll in with barely enough people to kill a monster. If you want an easier game, you bring 80 people. This is called "organic" difficulty--where you decided how hard something is not by changing a setting in the options menu but instead of practicing the game or bringing more people.

The "difficulty" described in your example is in getting enough people in your guild who work from home. That's not really everquest-related. It's also not difficulty related because its not really skill-based.

What you're really saying is, you think that Everquest raid targets should only go to those people who prioritize them high enough and who are flexible enough to get to them, and if you don't prioritize them enough and you're not flexible enough, someone else will take them from you. That's fine, you're not alone. But that's not "difficult".

I think you're over simplifying it a bit. If the only thing that mattered is what guild had the most people with enough flexibility to log on for raids then Rampage would get every single target. Granted they do get most of what they try for but they can (and have) been beaten to FTE on many targets since Velious came out. They also happen to be exceptionally good at mobilization and have multiple characters parked all over the game and a very skilled pull team. But I won't deny that having lots of flexible high playtime raiders is a big part of their success too.

However! Very very very often there are multiple guilds with adequate force in the zone shortly after a hotly contested target spawns. Being the guild that secures the FTE and gets the kill is where the challenge comes in. If you remove that (imo) you remove the only arguably difficult aspect of raiding on this server. You can artificially increase difficulty if you want by doing things with less numbers and such like you mentioned. But many people won't do that. Keeping the race for FTE ensures that there's always going to be an element of challenge to acquire pixels.

[khandman]

No to instancing.

Otherwise EQ just becomes another 'dailies/weeklies' grind.

[Evia]

With all due respect this is the absolute worst fucking idea ever.

It's OP's mindset that screwed up eq in the first place. Instancing is awful for all the reasons already mentioned but also because it borks the economy. Way too many nameds being dropped at the same time. All at the same time also completely ruining immersion and any real sense of achievement in this game.

I get that everyone has a life outside eq and some of these modern amenities make sense and are appealing when you have limited time to play but As someone said already, if that is the kind of game you're after go play wow or the hundreds of other games that instance. A great majority of the magic of eq is chasing down named mobs and knowing you got it to 'pop' and the named you're fighting is the -only -one up and -you - are the lucky one to kill it! Killing a named with Instancing means little to nothing. The accomplishment devalued as 11 others are probably being killed at the same time. Immersion ultimately fucked and eqs magic fades out.

It's literally the absolute worst idea ever

[Llodd]

Daldaens wonderfully classic suggestions aside, the main problem (if you can even call it that) is the top heavy nature of this server. No server during classic on live was anything remotely like p99 is now. Its a pretty interesting experiment, at least that's how I view it.

It took eq quite some time to arrive at instances because of this very issue. People were paying so it had to be done. Nilbog has the luxury of having no pressure whatsoever to worry about these trivialities. Which is fuckin great!

And btw you cant agree or disagree with anything more than 100%.

[jcr4990]

And btw you cant agree or disagree with anything more than 100%.

I disagree with this 200%

[maestrom]

I think you're over simplifying it a bit. If the only thing that mattered is what guild had the most people with enough flexibility to log on for raids then Rampage would get every single target. Granted they do get most of what they try for but they can (and have) been beaten to FTE on many targets since Velious came out. They also happen to be exceptionally good at mobilization and have multiple characters parked all over the game and a very skilled pull team. But I won't deny that having lots of flexible high playtime raiders is a big part of their success too.

However! Very very very often there are multiple guilds with adequate force in the zone shortly after a hotly contested target spawns. Being the guild that secures the FTE and gets the kill is where the challenge comes in. If you remove that (imo) you remove the only arguably difficult aspect of raiding on this server. You can artificially increase difficulty if you want by doing things with less numbers and such like you mentioned. But many people won't do that. Keeping the race for FTE ensures that there's always going to be an element of challenge to acquire pixels.

Hehe. I'd be curious to see how many targets Rampage makes a full run at and gets beaten.

With variance the way it is, my guild can either sock 1 target and maybe (probably?) waste our night, or we can try to mobilize and get beat by Rampage camping over to their alts that they have camped outside of whatever target spawned.

The game is set up for Rampage to kill everything. Not because the game was designed around Rampage, but because with the way the game was designed the people who ended up joining Rampage were in the best position to win. There's nothing that says the game has to be this way (its certainly not classic). There is no inherent value to the way the game is now, it's just a set of rules that tries to strike a balance between easy for the staff and keeping the masses happy.

[Myfather]

That would be awesome! I just started again!

[Brontus]

How about just creating a new blue server so that other guilds have a chance at having access to high level raid targets?

[jcr4990]

my guild can either sock 1 target and maybe (probably?) waste our night
Why would it be a waste of a night? If the only "challenge" of raiding (in your view) is having the numbers available then it should be easy to get any target you sock for with an adequate force right?

[Swish]

What I think would be really cool is if there was an end game dragon that kept getting slightly stronger each time after it was killed until finally it was too strong for any guild to kill. If it remained alive and no one was able to kill it then maybe a couple of guilds would team up and try to take it down. Then the process would continue until it was finally so strong that not even 5 or more guilds working together could destroy it. Then once it reached this point and remained unbeaten for an extended period of time, the whole process starts over but with the dragon having new random abilities that no one is prepared for.

As custom content ideas go I think that would be really good. Perhaps the best idea I've seen yet even.

[Swish]

How about just creating a new blue server so that other guilds have a chance at having access to high level raid targets?

If the pop on this one gets up past 2.5k I could see this argument maybe.

[maestrom]

Why would it be a waste of a night? If the only "challenge" of raiding (in your view) is having the numbers available then it should be easy to get any target you sock for with an adequate force right?

Absolutely.

Except with 16 hour variance, it's pretty easy to imagine my guild parking it at Trakanon at 5pm and then he spawns while we're at work the next day.

If a guild can realistically have a raid-sized force together and ready to go for ~5 hours a night, even if trak has been in window for 6 hours when they get there, they only have a 50% shot at actually seeing the target.

Too difficult.

[Lazie]

The competition is what brings me back to the server honestly. I take breaks here and there when I get tired of the politics/petitions which is a byproduct of it though without a doubt. I am sure this is the case with a lot of players who have raided at the high end on this server.

I think Daldaen's idea would make it more accessible for more casual players no doubt. It still wouldn't stop the skilled players who invest time and effort more than those casual players from getting the majority of the targets. Honestly, the end game raid scene on this server is more about innovating inside the rule book to secure mobs. You use the game mechanics in front of you to make things easier. Emergent gameplay is alive and well on this server.

Instances would take away the parts of raiding that makes this server unique. You have to make split second decisions and have them work out in your favor to win mobs. These decisions have moving parts and people that have to work together and communicate or it all falls apart. It takes time to build that communication and teamwork up to make it run flawlessly and smooth in the situations this server presents. People who invest the time to perfect that will have success.

[Varren]

Its about having an open world or not.

My vote for open world

[Sadre Spinegnawer]

http://cdn.meme.am/instances/500x/60529240.jpg

[ArumTP]

Really want that white dragonscale helm don't ya?

OP's true desire

[Sadre Spinegnawer]

You missed my point.

Who says EQ is supposed to be hard? EQ is a fixed difficulty game, for example Puma's in EC don't have more HPS/DPS based on your level or class.

You're either strong enough to kill the puma or you're not. There is a very narrow band where you're just barely strong enough to kill a puma where your skill actually matters and then it is "hard", but the vast majority of pumas are killed either quite routinely, or they smash the person trying to kill them.

Swap out "puma" for everything in this game.

If you want a harder game, you roll in with barely enough people to kill a monster. If you want an easier game, you bring 80 people. This is called "organic" difficulty--where you decided how hard something is not by changing a setting in the options menu but instead of practicing the game or bringing more people.

The "difficulty" described in your example is in getting enough people in your guild who work from home. That's not really everquest-related. It's also not difficulty related because its not really skill-based.

What you're really saying is, you think that Everquest raid targets should only go to those people who prioritize them high enough and who are flexible enough to get to them, and if you don't prioritize them enough and you're not flexible enough, someone else will take them from you. That's fine, you're not alone. But that's not "difficult".

Edit: I think there is an argument for difficulty in P99, actually. My guild was in Kael arena last week and Vindi popped. No other guilds in the zone, we would have had a clear shot at him. He was up for another hour before someone else came in and killed him (might actually have been BDA). We didn't kill him because we would have gotten killed. We could have stayed there for a full hour getting our Cheal rotation just right and buffing and executing a perfect pull. We also could have had everyone in the raid do their jobs perfectly and we still would have lost. This is because Vindi is too hard for us. When you say EQ isn't hard enough without competition, you mean your guild doesn't have any problem of taking down any target in the game given enough time. So why should your need for some non-everquest element be added to my everquest game? FTE is the rule here and that's fine--you guys have convinced the staff to cater to you when making raid rules. OP and I think it should go differently.

Can I maybe help you? I'm an old player, and not getting any younger. But let me tell you the direction to Valhalla.

You said Vindi was up. No one was going for it. You say you could have tried to get your ch rotation down, and gotten buffs perfect and got a perfect pull. But you say you still would have died.

Do you realize that is the challenge? Do you realize that is the signal to you, you need to bolster your roster?

How close do you think you were? Maybe find another non-raiding guild to ally with? Maybe make a plan on your guildpage to have max members on for next spawn?

Do you realize this is how this game was played for years until Sony implemented the lame instanced model?

I am saddened, that you see contested content as a hindrance instead of a challenge. I feel sorry for your guildmates, if they agree with you. I feel bad for your parents, because they gave birth to weakling who can't figure out how to win.

This game is very beatable. It is not complicated. And it is not "sociopathic." Quite the opposite. As your own account verifies, if you gather the forces, you can get the content.

So gather your forces.

[Bruno]

http://i606.photobucket.com/albums/tt146/mortablunt/BelieveInTrollThreads.jpg

[maestrom]

http://i606.photobucket.com/albums/tt146/mortablunt/BelieveInTrollThreads.jpg

[indiscriminate_hater]

Can I maybe help you? I'm an old player, and not getting any younger. But let me tell you the direction to Valhalla.

You said Vindi was up. No one was going for it. You say you could have tried to get your ch rotation down, and gotten buffs perfect and got a perfect pull. But you say you still would have died.

Do you realize that is the challenge? Do you realize that is the signal to you, you need to bolster your roster?

How close do you think you were? Maybe find another non-raiding guild to ally with? Maybe make a plan on your guildpage to have max members on for next spawn?

Do you realize this is how this game was played for years until Sony implemented the lame instanced model?

I am saddened, that you see contested content as a hindrance instead of a challenge. I feel sorry for your guildmates, if they agree with you. I feel bad for your parents, because they gave birth to weakling who can't figure out how to win.

This game is very beatable. It is not complicated. And it is not "sociopathic." Quite the opposite. As your own account verifies, if you gather the forces, you can get the content.

So gather your forces.

lol wut

[JackFlash]

good troll is good. /golfclap

[captnamazing]

p99 already is instanced .... how else would bda get raid mobs

[Xaanka]

consider red

[Jfertal]

Go play live nerd.

[andvarion]

One of the things I love most about EQ is the lack of instancing. I like the server to feel populated. I like to go into a zone and see other people fighting things.

But I don't understand this desire for contesting mobs. Classic EQ to me involved a rotation. It involved diplomacy between guilds. Not FTE/train/petition-quest. As much as you all claim to love "competition", I'd expect to see the populations of the blue and red servers swapped. Why would you join a PvE server to compete against other players? PvP is for competition against players. PvE is for competition against the game. Is the game too easy? Well it's 16 years old. Maybe you've "beaten" it.

[rayeatts]

I am firmly against instancing. The idea stands zero chance of being put into this game and rightfully so. It wouldn't be everquest anymore.

However, leaders of guilds ought to be able to get together and discuss how they can let each other have a shot at least every once in a while to take down the top end game bosses.

We could simply have a rotation of rules given what day or week it was. Make it so that on Monday through Thursday, when all the people with jobs are busy, the rules are that whoever gets to the mob first gets the battle.

On Friday through Sunday, the days when all the busy moms and dads actually have time to play their favorite game, let their be some sort of organized rotation ran by gm's or the guild leaders or someone who can make sure that everyone gets a chance to enjoy the game.


Then we could really have both thing, and not be screwing up the economy. It would give neckbeards their chance to wreck havoc during the week and they'd have an excuse to take a break on the weekend while the others get their shot to slay some raid mobs.

[rayeatts]

I am firmly against instancing. The idea stands zero chance of being put into this game and rightfully so. It wouldn't be everquest anymore.

However, leaders of guilds ought to be able to get together and discuss how they can let each other have a shot at least every once in a while to take down the top end game bosses.

We could simply have a rotation of rules given what day or week it was. Make it so that on Monday through Thursday, when all the people with jobs are busy, the rules are that whoever gets to the mob first gets the battle.

On Friday through Sunday, the days when all the busy moms and dads actually have time to play their favorite game, let their be some sort of organized rotation ran by gm's or the guild leaders or someone who can make sure that everyone gets a chance to enjoy the game.


Then we could really have both thing, and not be screwing up the economy. It would give neckbeards their chance to wreck havoc during the week and they'd have an excuse to take a break on the weekend while the others get their shot to slay some raid mobs.


Top guilds would still remain top guilds because they'd still have many more opportunities than small guilds even with this idea!

[rayeatts]

Top guilds would still remain top guilds because they'd still have many more opportunities than small guilds even with this idea!

You could even include top guilds into the weekend rotation so they can have a shot at getting fully buffed and prepped for their raids as well. And, then when monday came around, things would go right back to competing for every mob.

[vermeee]

save the server..... give a life for all those growin man that wants to dictatorship and dominate a so old game...

the other day a dude rage at my newbie ( realy newbie) friend coz he was tankin some stupid mobs level 15 with a shield and a sword...

~ OW MAN YOU ARE WEARIN A SHIELD AND A SWORD FOR TANKIN ? THATS PATHETIC HOW CAN YOU BE WEARIN A SHIED AND A SWORD.... I PREFER TO ROLL ALONE.... GO FUCK YOUR SELF ~

[Treefall]

They plan on keeping thus server the way it is, and I'm glad for that (based on old posts). However, if you remember they did say that possibly in the distant future they would do a custom server with perhaps expacs in the style if Velious. That would be a good server for your suggestions. This beauty is a time capsule. If they made every little change it eventually becomes a big change which would make this game unrecognizable.

If they ever make a new server I'm all for open world content because I enjoy it. I like that I can't always farm exactly where and what I want when I want because other people are doing it. If there were ever raid instances I would want them to be replicas of mobs that exist in the world but drop less whereas non-instanced mobs would drop more and have a higher chance for good loot.

[ManuelThePopStar]

No matter what's done there will be no competing with <Rampage>. Their players all have like 5+ level 60 toons of different classes they can switch to depending on what the guild needs.

Hell the other day they were doing what was it....a 60man Ntov raid midday on a weekday, with 13 clerics, 16 rogues, and 9 warriors?

Don't act like the game is difficult when you're bringing 13 clerics and 16 fucking rogues to Ntov.

[ManuelThePopStar]

I disagree 1000%

I don't think theres much of an argument for challenge in the P99 raid scene outside of the race for targets and maybe a couple of the hardest encounters in the game (Tunare and such) I can't think of a single raid target I've personally killed that would be anywhere near difficult if there was no competition for it. Unlimited time to buff/med and setup/test CH rotations and tank/ramp tank assignments and such = Nearly every fight in EQ is ezmode. Not to mention if theres no competition you can wait for primetime hours and get all your best raiders online at the same time. The ONLY hard part about raiding here is the race. Sorry.
The problem with "racing" on this server is that "certain guilds" get an unfair advantage; a headstart if you will.

They have players with so many level 60 toons that it allows them to have multiple raid forces camped out in multiple zones ready to pounce on any mob that pops.

Other guilds don't have this luxury, and are forced to select individual targets (or zones perhaps) to focus on. Basically sitting at the zone line of said zone for hours on their mains, knowing that if they don't they have no chance. If they need to mobilize and travel they will lose.....because "other guilds" likely have an entire raid force camped and waiting, fully buffed, ready to go.

[maestrom]

I think, failing a rule change to first in force, which I think would be the simplest solution, the Class system should be revisited.

Or Daldaen's back-to-classic proposal.

[maestrom]

Or a combination of all 3 would be great.

Guilds that want to compete go to class C. Guilds that don't want to compete go to class R.

Each mob cycles C/R/FIF.

C targets are FTE, because you all claim to love it so much. R targets are rotations just like before. FiF targets whoever gets their raid force into the zone first gets the target.

[teija]

Really want that white dragonscale helm don't ya?

lol this is all the op is worried about. XD

[Pyrion]

I am not raiding. At all. But even i know that instancing would immediately kill EQ for me. EQ tries hard to be a world, not just a game. Instancing would rapidly destroy any suspension of disbelief and would cry "I am just a game that wants to please you".

[Pyrocat]

I am not raiding. At all. But even i know that instancing would immediately kill EQ for me. EQ tries hard to be a world, not just a game. Instancing would rapidly destroy any suspension of disbelief and would cry "I am just a game that wants to please you".

best post in this entire thread

[Champion_Standing]

I am not raiding. At all. But even i know that instancing would immediately kill EQ for me. EQ tries hard to be a world, not just a game. Instancing would rapidly destroy any suspension of disbelief and would cry "I am just a game that wants to please you".

Well if you don't raid and they only instanced raid zones how would it impact the game for you? Not that I support instances in EQ...just sorta curious how that reasoning works out.

[Seltius]

Would vote No if you had remembered to include the poll.

[Pyrocat]

The fact that instancing exists seriously detracts from the weighty-ness of the world, even if you never go to the instanced zones. Just like if all character models clipped through each other, or waypoints were added and you could teleport w/o a spell, or you could open up your bank from anywhere in the world, or death didn't leave a corpse. All of these things add to the illusion that Norrath is a real, solid world.

[maestrom]

How do you feel about multiple servers?

[Pyrocat]

I'm fine with it. Necessary if you want to maintain any sort of population control and not have instancing. Not really down for character transfers between servers since it takes away from the idea of a reputation, which I feel is very much in effect on this server.

[Gaunja]

Just roll red

[Wired Aces]

There's no contest that instanced raid zones are a better system. But there are plenty of games that do that already. Most of us I think, myself included, are here for the classicness (totally a word) of what was and is a great game.

[phacemeltar]

op, please think about this a little more.. What affect would a change like this cause for EC prices? What about people who go to a dungeon to look for a group? Please stop being selfish and inconsiderate.

[Monty405]

Oh, another instancing thread.

hmm.

Dont Delay, Play GREEN 99 today! Wipe it clean!

[maskedmelon]

Oh, another instancing thread.

hmm.

Dont Delay, Play GREEN 99 today! Wipe it clean!

+1 ^^

[kined]

instancing is most certainly not the answer, it would completely kill the feel of this server. i think the tweaks someone mentions on 1st or second page is a good option, or atleast closer to the mark. instancing would make this end game so ridiculously boring the server would end up a graveyard as people get all the things they want and move on. sure, it sucks we cant access the things we want without neckbearding it, but its better than having the whole end game down like a formula in this game... with how easy and short those raid target fights our it would be devestating to the atmosphere of this game. people would just go through the rounds at 60 and be bored in a day. there is absolutely no good reason why this server should instance content.

also i dont understand why people want to wipe the server. the same neckbeards who camp things 18 hours a day are still going to be there, its just gonna get even worse because they will all need to catch back up to where they were so they will switch to 20 hour days.

[Daldaen]

0-1 hour variance.
Sim Repops every 2 weeks or so to reset Windows entirely.

Then you'll see some actual competition going on, and all guilds can get in on it.

[Bruno]

Good to see this quality troll still going strong. :)

[maestrom]

There's no contest that instanced raid zones are a better system. But there are plenty of games that do that already. Most of us I think, myself included, are here for the classicness (totally a word) of what was and is a great game.

The fact remains, there is no game out there that instances Classic-Velious content. There really are no options for someone who wants to kill classic powered classic content with real people outside of this server.

[maestrom]

0-1 hour variance.
Sim Repops every 2 weeks or so to reset Windows entirely.

Then you'll see some actual competition going on, and all guilds can get in on it.

[jcr4990]

0-1 hour variance.
Sim Repops every 2 weeks or so to reset Windows entirely.

Then you'll see some actual competition going on, and all guilds can get in on it.

+1 for drastically reducing variance. I'd love to see +/- 1 or 2 hrs on everything.

[khandman]

Perma death on Sleeper being awoken. Spice things up a bit.

[Pyrocat]

let's start executing forum trolls

[indiscriminate_hater]

bring back the compass

[Swish]

let's start executing forum trolls

Start with this guy for stirring it up ^^

[Pyrocat]

bring back the compass



bring back target circles, con color in target window, in game map, luclin models, high def resolutions, soulbinders, illusion potions, teleporters, boxing, instances, exp potions, mercenaries, in game purchases, epic mounts, waypoints, the auction house, gold farmers, wait what game am i playing again?

[Swish]

Its really not hard to hit sense heading a few times to get a feel for your direction. I suppose people want the Luclin models back too :o

[trite]

Read literally nothing of this. I'm shocked some troll BS like this isn't in rants and flames. If you aren't 100% trolling you're playing the wrong game. Go play another game now!

[Doors]

Seems like a troll.

Only real competition left here is on red fighting for raid mobs.

[trite]

Seems like a troll.

Only real competition left here is on red fighting for raid mobs.

Or you can be on blue where 100 people split 40 60 competed for Vulak at 10am EST today and the smaller force won after a 40 minute fight with Vulak....Still, Red has to be better than instances where anyone who wants to invest a fixed amount of time can earn pixels no one cares about because everyone else has them too.

[indiscriminate_hater]

bring back target circles, con color in target window, in game map, luclin models, high def resolutions, soulbinders, illusion potions, teleporters, boxing, instances, exp potions, mercenaries, in game purchases, epic mounts, waypoints, the auction house, gold farmers

agreed

[Thiefboy777]

We don't need instances we need more zones! Luclin anyone?

[Swish]

Luclin if you're offering, sure.

[myriverse]

Must...
Haz...
Home...
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/de/0d/88/de0d889b2ab0403496697ba6d0c10ff4.jpg

[lonmoer]

I want luclin goddamnit!

[dafier]

Can't do Luclin without PoP. That just doesn't fly alone.

[JboxCSU]

F luclin, go straight to PoP.

[arsenalpow]

F luclin, go straight to PoP.

But I heard everyone looooooved Vex Thal so much

[Fire Beetle]

I too want to go to PoP therefor we must have cats on the moon.

[wormed]

But I heard everyone looooooved Vex Thal so much

I didn't mind Vex Thal. :p

[maestrom]

I didn't mind Vex Thal. :p

Were you a monk?

[Kayso]

But I heard everyone looooooved Vex Thal so much

Vex Thal was awesome as a monk. How many mobs do I think my raid force can handle? Inc that number + a few.

Now keying your guild for VT and the cockblock that was SSRA? The tears and petitions would be endless. That alone would either kill the server and/or be amazing to watch -- depending on your immersion level.

[maestrom]

Vex Thal was awesome as a monk. How many mobs do I think my raid force can handle? Inc that number + a few.

Now keying your guild for VT and the cockblock that was SSRA? The tears and petitions would be endless. That alone would either kill the server and/or be amazing to watch -- depending on your immersion level.

I can already see the posts about how killing Cursed/AL triggers don't give you rights to the boss.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_YM0Ln7KgrU

[JboxCSU]

I take it back, we need Luclin. RnF would be spectacular.

[drktmplr12]

0-1 hour variance.
Sim Repops every 2 weeks or so to reset Windows entirely.


This is what should happen. This server would be a better place with simulated repops and lower variance. 8 hour variance is crazy.

[Daldaen]

This is what should happen. This server would be a better place with simulated repops and lower variance. 8 hour variance is crazy.

Well it's 8+/- which is actually 16 hours of variance.

It used to be even more fricken ridiculous with 96 hours.

Dropping it down to 1 or 2 would let more casual guilds schedule a raid and have a better shot at taking down targets and it would let more hardcore guilds raid on a few days out of the week, since the Windows would compress into 1-2 days, rather than having to raid 6-7 days a week to cover all the windows.

Due to variance VP's 6 Dragons have spread out across 5 days now, even though they're all killed relatively quickly after spawning and we keep getting patches that don't take down the server, resetting timers.

This level of server stability is killing my immersion!!!

[dafier]

Vex Thal and SSRA. I had great times in both.

[rayeatts]

After reading though this entire thread and considering everybody's opinions, it seems to me that the best change to be made is to slightly reduce variance to see what the effect on raid mob competition would be.

The goal should be to keep some amount of variance to give leading guilds an edge, but reduce that variance to give casual guilds a chance.

[drktmplr12]

After reading though this entire thread and considering everybody's opinions, it seems to me that the best change to be made is to slightly reduce variance to see what the effect on raid mob competition would be.

The goal should be to keep some amount of variance to give leading guilds an edge, but reduce that variance to give casual guilds a chance.

you bring up the crux of variance. This would really not be a problem if server repops synchronized the spawns periodically and variance was lowered to 2-3 hour window.

Lets remember that repops and 0 variance is classic. variance was implemented because there wasn't enough raid targets to keep people busy. So when one was about to spawn-EVERYONE showed up.

I would argue that with velious, there are enough targets to keep everyone busy enough so that variance can be reasonably lowered or eliminated all together.

for argument's sake:

lets assume guild A is keyed for ST and another guild B is getting keys, but cannot compete in ST.

without repops and with variance as high as it is:

the spawn times for necklace dropping mobs (and all others for that matter) tend to diverge and guild A can effectively take every single one they want since they are the largest with most play time and are the most available for tracking. guild A takes 90% of ST key holders and laughs on their way to ST. This is okay and normal since they are putting more effort into the game. The problem is that variance really tips the scales in their favor and perpetuates the state of end game.

With lower variance and simulated repops:

guild A will race to dragons that drop necklaces and ignore ST for as long as they want, since no one else can enter. but they can't possibly get them ALL since others will be competing. With as many necklace dropping targets as there are, no reason why guild B can't get ST keyed to compete within a period of 3-4 months. there would also be (1) higher degree of predictability (far from certain though) to spawn times which helps people plan their game time (2) the tendency for spawn timers to diverge is dampened significantly (3) repops would force more keys into guild B hands, but only if guild B can mobilize and kill things before guild A.

Once B is keyed, guild A needs to race to ST on a repop. Both guilds A and B are now competing for ST and leaving necklace targets alone for guilds C, D, E and F.

this ended up being alot longer than i meant for it to be...thanks for reading!

end variance!
simulated repops!

tldr;
0 variance and repops are classic.
large spawn windows with no repops perpetuates the shit show.

[maestrom]

I used to think that even with Velious, there would need to be some kind of rule changes to allow smaller guilds a shot at raid targets.

I'm not 100% convinced that a first in force rule isn't the best option, but I think a no-variance + sim-repops schedule would work almost as well.

I understand why variance was put in, but repops would do away with 10 guilds piling on top of each other and training all over each other to get to the only target in window.

[Pyrocat]

no or less variance = way more of a shitshow on contested raid targets, way more training, way more drama. We've been there. We do not want to go back. I'm not saying this as someone in the top raiding guild, I'm saying this as someone who is an active member of this community who doesn't like drama. If you think the level of toxic bullshit that goes on in the raiding scene is bad now... it was 10 times worse before variance.

I'm all in favor of more simulated repops though (or even just normal ones when they bring the server down... those don't happen anymore). More simulated repops = more mobs for everyone = more smaller guilds able to get targets because larger guilds are busy competing in ToV.

[Daldaen]

no or less variance = way more of a shitshow on contested raid targets, way more training, way more drama. We've been there. We do not want to go back. I'm not saying this as someone in the top raiding guild, I'm saying this as someone who is an active member of this community who doesn't like drama. If you think the level of toxic bullshit that goes on in the raiding scene is bad now... it was 10 times worse before variance.

I'm all in favor of more simulated repops though (or even just normal ones when they bring the server down... those don't happen anymore). More simulated repops = more mobs for everyone = more smaller guilds able to get targets because larger guilds are busy competing in ToV.

And remind me.

How many raid targets were there when there was no variance?

More targets means more spread out and less stepping on each other's toes.

Overlapping spawns pushes the losing guild to settle for a secondary target.

[maestrom]

How many guilds are going to go after Vulak when 1-2 Warders, Tormax, Zland, Phara, Statue, and Inny are due to pop in the same hour?

Probably 1. Maybe 2.

Is Vulak going to be a top priority target forever and ever? Of course! But how many guilds are going to take a 50% chance of winning the race to Vulak when they could just go to ST, or Kael, or DN, or VP, or Hate and have a 100% shot at any of those mobs.

If you remove variance and sim-repop even once a month, i would be surprised if you ever get to a situation where a majority of targets spread out by more than a few hours. Even for Rampage, it would be tough to contest more than 5-6 targets spread out across 3 expansions in a couple of hours.

[Aalderon Crystafire]

Project 1999 - Classic Everquest

[Jabaniz]

I quit live because of stupid instanced shit

[Morlaeth]

How many guilds are going to go after Vulak when 1-2 Warders, Tormax, Zland, Phara, Statue, and Inny are due to pop in the same hour?

Probably 1. Maybe 2.

Is Vulak going to be a top priority target forever and ever? Of course! But how many guilds are going to take a 50% chance of winning the race to Vulak when they could just go to ST, or Kael, or DN, or VP, or Hate and have a 100% shot at any of those mobs.

If you remove variance and sim-repop even once a month, i would be surprised if you ever get to a situation where a majority of targets spread out by more than a few hours. Even for Rampage, it would be tough to contest more than 5-6 targets spread out across 3 expansions in a couple of hours.


ST shouldn't even in the 'racing for mobs' equation.

[drktmplr12]

ST shouldn't even in the 'racing for mobs' equation.

If 2 guilds are keyed, yes it should. Right now that isn't the case, but repops would provide more keys and eventually more competition for ST.

And remind me.

How many raid targets were there when there was no variance?

Before Velious, ignoring PoS:
10 targets not including VP
16 targets including VP

Velious, After Hate/Fear 2.0:
50+ targets not including ST
56+ targets including ST (leave 1 Warder alive)

Classic (4/7+):
Cazic Thule
Dracoliche
Fright (2.0)
Dread (2.0)
Terror (2.0)
Inny
Maestro
Various PoH Named (2.0)

Kunark (6):
Faydedar
Trakanon
Venril Sathir
Gorenaire
Talendor
Servelonius

Veeshan's Peak(6):
Druushk
Hoshkar
Nexona
Phara Dar
Silverwing
Xygoz

Velious(12):
Velketor the Sorcerer
Tunare
Dain Frostreaver IV
Derakor the Vindicator
King Tormax
Avatar of War
Wuoshi
Kelorek`Dar
Zlandicar (ST Key)
Klandicar (ST Key)
Sontalak (ST Key)
Lord Yelinak (ST Key)

Temple of Veeshan(19+):
Halls of Testing (various quest drops)
West Wing (4)
Arreken Skyward
Gozzrem
Lendiniara the Keeper (ST Key)
Telkorenar
North Wing (15)
Aaryonar
Cekenar
Dagarn the Destroyer
Eashen of the Sky
Ikatiar the Venom
Jorlleag
Lady Mirenilla
Lady Nevederia
Lord Feshlak
Lord Koi'Doken
Lord Kreizenn
Lord Vyemm
Sevalak
Vulak`Aerr
Zlexak

Sleeper's Tomb(7):
The Progenitor
The Final Arbiter
Master of the Guard
Hraashna the Warder
Nanzata the Warder
Tukaarak the Warder
Ventani the Warder

[maestrom]

ST shouldn't even in the 'racing for mobs' equation.

Why not?

Because only a guild are two are keyed right now? ST keys aren't like VP and aren't real bottlenecks. In 6 months half of the 60s on the server will have an ST key. ST should absolutely be included.

[ArumTP]

Why not?

Because only a guild are two are keyed right now? ST keys aren't like VP and aren't real bottlenecks. In 6 months half of the 60s on the server will have an ST key. ST should absolutely be included.

ST keys are a bottleneck. Non-classic fear on the dragons, plus rampages pushes very hard to make sure nobody else gets them but rampage.

referring to this passive aggressive guild recruitment post, that remains a fairly accurate account of keys

We do OK on Sleepers keys I guess.

http://i.imgur.com/sGHf7P6.png

[Pyrocat]

edit: arum covered my point

[andvarion]

Why don't people who want competition go play on red? It's actually, you know, designed for competition.

I'm not trolling. I genuinely want to know.

[maestrom]

Remove variance = Rampage gets 1 key, 3 other keys get taken by other guilds.

Sure they're in the lead right now, but they can't kill 4 targets spread out over 3 zones in 1 hour while being contested the whole way by as many as 7 other guilds.

Edit: And just in case you think that I meant that Rampage can't win a single race against 7 other guilds (they probably can most of the time). While Rampage goes after Sontalak, BDA will take Zland, Divinity will take all the time they want going after Yelinak, and FAT will take Kland.

Or they'll spread out in other ways.

Editpart 2: And "oh BDA can't kill Xmob" maybe not now. But remove variance, let them have their shot, and give them a few more months of taking raid targets, yeah they'll kill it.

[Pyrocat]

Why don't people who want competition go play on red? It's actually, you know, designed for competition.

I'm not trolling. I genuinely want to know.

Racing a raid force to kill a dragon is a very different type of competition than PVPing. I personally enjoy PVP, just not in Everquest. You could just as easily say "Why don't people who don't want competition go play WoW?". It's a different game.

[ArumTP]

Remove variance = Rampage gets 1 key, 3 other keys get taken by other guilds.

Sure they're in the lead right now, but they can't kill 4 targets spread out over 3 zones in 1 hour while being contested the whole way by as many as 7 other guilds.

Edit: And just in case you think that I meant that Rampage can't win a single race against 7 other guilds (they probably can most of the time). While Rampage goes after Sontalak, BDA will take Zland, Divinity will take all the time they want going after Yelinak, and FAT will take Kland.

Or they'll spread out in other ways.

I disagree with your assessment of key easily keys can acquired. They can skip Soltanak (seen that shit skipped before) and Yelinak (has anyone even bothered racing for it?). Divinity works with rampage so I find it unlikely they would get one/be racing against them. So that leaves LtK, Kland, Zland being fought by Rampinity Foegard and BDA very tight and trainey race.

[maestrom]

I disagree with your assessment of key easily keys can acquired. They can skip Soltanak (seen that shit skipped before) and Yelinak (has anyone even bothered racing for it?). Divinity works with rampage so I find it unlikely they would get one/be racing against them. So that leaves LtK, Kland, Zland being fought by Rampinity Foegard and BDA very tight and trainey race.

You do know that none of those mobs are anywhere near each other?

Rampinity picks a mob, Foegard goes after a differeny mob, BDA takes the third.

Unless you think BDA can train Zland to Sontalak.

[Morlaeth]

Why not?

Because only a guild are two are keyed right now? ST keys aren't like VP and aren't real bottlenecks. In 6 months half of the 60s on the server will have an ST key. ST should absolutely be included.

Which tags are half these 60s under?

[maestrom]

Which tags are half these 60s under?

Maybe I'm missing something.

If all of NToV, Statue, Zland, Kland, Tormax, Sontalak, Lendi are all due to pop within 30 minutes of each other, you think Rampage is going to take all of them?

Yeah, half of the 60s in 6 months is an exaggeration (only ~130 keys will drop in the next 6 months). But thats plenty for 2-3 guilds to get raid forces into ST.

[Morlaeth]

Maybe I'm missing something.

If all of NToV, Statue, Zland, Kland, Tormax, Sontalak, Lendi are all due to pop within 30 minutes of each other, you think Rampage is going to take all of them?

Yeah, half of the 60s in 6 months is an exaggeration (only ~130 keys will drop in the next 6 months). But thats plenty for 2-3 guilds to get raid forces into ST.

Hold the phone...Tormax and Statue drop key talis?!

Joking aside, the devs have had 16 hour variance on here forever, it's not going to change.

[maestrom]

Hold the phone...Tormax and Statue drop key talis?!

Joking aside, the devs have had 16 hour variance on here forever, it's not going to change.

naw :p

But guilds have to set priorities. If everything is popped, is Rampage going to go after Lendi or are they going to go after Tormax or Statue? Actually they'll probably be in NToV. So if there's a quake during prime time, I would expect Rampage to get 1 key or 0 keys because they'll lose half of NToV if they try to block key mobs.

I understand that variance has been here forever, but its not classic and there is a lot of discussion about whether it makes sense anymore. In Kunark, might have been "necessary" (i disagree), but in Velious it seems to be counter productive.

[Morlaeth]

Reasonable argument, but counter productive to whom? ;)

[rayeatts]

you bring up the crux of variance. This would really not be a problem if server repops synchronized the spawns periodically and variance was lowered to 2-3 hour window.

Lets remember that repops and 0 variance is classic. variance was implemented because there wasn't enough raid targets to keep people busy. So when one was about to spawn-EVERYONE showed up.

I would argue that with velious, there are enough targets to keep everyone busy enough so that variance can be reasonably lowered or eliminated all together.

for argument's sake:

lets assume guild A is keyed for ST and another guild B is getting keys, but cannot compete in ST.

without repops and with variance as high as it is:

the spawn times for necklace dropping mobs (and all others for that matter) tend to diverge and guild A can effectively take every single one they want since they are the largest with most play time and are the most available for tracking. guild A takes 90% of ST key holders and laughs on their way to ST. This is okay and normal since they are putting more effort into the game. The problem is that variance really tips the scales in their favor and perpetuates the state of end game.

With lower variance and simulated repops:

guild A will race to dragons that drop necklaces and ignore ST for as long as they want, since no one else can enter. but they can't possibly get them ALL since others will be competing. With as many necklace dropping targets as there are, no reason why guild B can't get ST keyed to compete within a period of 3-4 months. there would also be (1) higher degree of predictability (far from certain though) to spawn times which helps people plan their game time (2) the tendency for spawn timers to diverge is dampened significantly (3) repops would force more keys into guild B hands, but only if guild B can mobilize and kill things before guild A.

Once B is keyed, guild A needs to race to ST on a repop. Both guilds A and B are now competing for ST and leaving necklace targets alone for guilds C, D, E and F.

this ended up being alot longer than i meant for it to be...thanks for reading!

end variance!
simulated repops!

tldr;
0 variance and repops are classic.
large spawn windows with no repops perpetuates the shit show.


This man clearly knows what he is talking about. Others should consider what he's saying.

[maestrom]

Reasonable argument, but counter productive to whom? ;)

Uuuuuggggghhhhhhh :P

I'll be more precise.

Why was variance put in in the first place?

I wasn't there so I don't know if Rogean and Nilbog have put out official statements on the issue, but Sirken said recently that variance and the current crop of raid rules were put in place to keep 10 guilds from showing up and insta-gibbing targets the second they spawned.

They preferred a server where guilds tracked certain raid targets and then when one popped, they raced to the target to get to kill it. Variance was a reasonable part of the solution when there were only handful of raid targets outside of VP. And, for a time at least, it seemed like variance was doing its job.

This may have been necessary (if you're only willing to assume an FTE ruleset) in Kunark with only 5-6 raid targets outside of VP, but that's another conversation.

What happens with Velious though? In velious we have quite a few more raid targets. The restrictions on player conduct (FTE, no tracker FT, DQing folks past IZ) are more than enough to ensure a footrace to each target. We also have most targets going down to Rampage uncontested because variance has spread them out so much. Is it really a footrace if Rampage casually kills Zland at 4am while everyone else is asleep?

Taking out variance, on the other hand, keeps spawns bunched together. Rampage might get their first choice uncontested (because other guilds will see whatever Rampage is going after and go someplace else). Guilds will generally get their first choice because they'll see what's spawning first and they'll spread out, but their second choices will involve lots of that mobilization that everyone seems to really love here. If its a full pop, guilds will have to be strategic in picking which targets they want. Contrast this to the current model of "Tormax and Kland are in window, camp one force in kael, one force in WW, keep your phones on you for when the sockers send the text-blast".

So if the goal of variance was either to reduce socking, encourage racing, and distribute kills more evenly between guilds, it is counter-productive to its own goals. Variance encourages socking, discourages racing, and gives the guild with the most ability to log in at 10am on a Monday the best chance at killing a target.

[Man0warr]

It was put in because 200 people used to sit on Trakanon's spawn point just waiting to FTE.

Some rules were put in later to further counter this (can't be at raid target spawn point) but that was the initial one.

[Swish]

It was put in because 200 people used to sit on Trakanon's spawn point just waiting to FTE.

:rolleyes::rolleyes:

[jcr4990]

General consensus seems to be variance has outlived its original purpose and lingers to the detriment of not only the raid scene but the very classic nature of the server (Variance not being classic)

What are the chances we get a staff response on this? Place your bets.

[Swish]

You know if it's taken out there'll be calls to put it back in within a week... why change the status quo? Can't keep everyone happy.

[maestrom]

It was put in because 200 people used to sit on Trakanon's spawn point just waiting to FTE.

Some rules were put in later to further counter this (can't be at raid target spawn point) but that was the initial one.

That's why I thought it was put in.

It seems like the "must be at IZ" rule does a better job of ensuring this doesn't happen than variance does. Variance gave rise to the coth-ducking autorunning tank nonsense.

Get rid of variance and people won't sock. Does anyone sock scout charisa? Maybe someone trying to get her timer, but most people show up right before she spawns. No variance; no socking.

[trite]

I've already commented on this thread but I've never hated a troll so much as the one who suggested instanced raid zones for eq.

[Xaanka]

this thread is a whole lot of words about why you should man up and play red

[Evia]

I've already commented on this thread but I've never hated a troll so much as the one who suggested instanced raid zones for eq.

[teija]

wow this thread is not dead yet?

[Swish]

I've already commented on this thread but I've never hated a troll so much as the one who suggested instanced raid zones for eq.

Anyone for mercs with their instancing? Kappa

[JurisDictum]

Instancing is an easy fix to the problem of too much competition over too few pixels; and I do think there is a little too much competition. If you cant make those batphones at all hours in the 3-day ToV window -- you won't get shit from there on this server atm. But instancing causes way more problems than it solves -- and one of the key reasons there is no such thing a cohesive community in WoW for example. Instancing also exacerbates the rat race and demand for new content. This is server obviously can't keep up with that kind of demand, even if they announced going to PoP.

Adjusting variance or removing it is a more interesting idea. It is certainly more classic. The argument for variance usually goes: it was needed (especially in Kurnark) to make sure that there was a more time consuming raid scene that involved trackers. Frankly it doesn't make a lot of sense what this helps. It just makes loot even more concentrated amongst people that can play all day.

My theory -- which I think makes more sense -- is the server can't handle 400 people in a zone very well...so making the mobs spawn randomly makes the server look more legitimate (and cause less a headache to the devs) than it would if it started crashing every Vulak and Tormax. Some people claim that it was to prevent FTE races with the whole server at once -- which is obviously lame. I don't understand how raiding with Forgard or Rampage and FTE racing in ToV is somehow less lame than if BDA and Taken were there too. It's lame either way -- and generally what happens is a raid circulation so that none of us have to deal with it.

However, we never give enough time for a circulation to develop. Because first -- everyone needs to be fed up with how bad things are with server crashes for months. The devs don't want to rip that bandaid off. And the thing is, it will likely return to this state of server crashes even after rotation -- because there will always be guilds wanting to break in from time and time. Some leaders are also more stubborn than others -- for example -- I bet old TMO would just play through the crashes for a very long time if they thought they could win. I think the current leadership of the top guilds are a lot less greedy and corrupted with RMT, however.

TLDR: Eliminating variance is the only way a rotation will start. Rotations are far more "casual" friendly (in EQ -- casual is like 5/hr a lot of times) and healthy to people's lives. However, no variance = lots of server crashes and drama that the devs don't want to put up with.

[B4EQWASCOOL]

Anyone for mercs with their instancing? Kappa

[SCB]

Nothing has ever been better for MMOs than instancing.

Edit: Also limiting number of people on a raid, of course.

Talk shit all you want but society has proven you wrong. You're all just circle-jerking over a sad past you never got to experience.

[Sadre Spinegnawer]

Nothing has ever been better for online single player games than instancing.

Edit: Also limiting number of people on a raid, of course.

Talk shit all you want but society has proven you wrong. You're all just circle-jerking over a sad past you never got to experience.

fify

[SCB]

fify

There has never been a more challenging mmo experience than an instanced, player-limited raid.

On the other side of the token let me remind you of mass RZ raid/rez zergs or any "top end" raid on this server.

Instances or their equivalents are the only thing even remotely equating to difficulty.

Nothing in classic is hard because instances and raid limitations don't exist. If TMO (whatever)/Rampage(+whatever) couldn;t kill it they'd just call in the zerg.

They already do.

You can circle-jerk about competition and difficulty but what you really mean is 18 douchebags available at any time to kill a tank-and-spank mob encounter you already outgear whose only offense is an aoe you brokenly outresist.

This isn't everquest. This is masturbation.

[creamypeanutbutter]

no no no no no

[Freakish]

Ain't nobody resisting aoes on this server.

[Swish]

Nothing has ever been better for MMOs than instancing.

Edit: Also limiting number of people on a raid, of course.

Talk shit all you want but society has proven you wrong. You're all just circle-jerking over a sad past you never got to experience.

I agree, I mean what better way to have an online community experience than to section yourself off from the online community and collectively reduce the price of anything worthwhile to nothing while helping mudflation soar...sounds really immersive :rolleyes:

[SCB]

I agree, I mean what better way to have an online community experience than to section yourself off from the online community and collectively reduce the price of anything worthwhile to nothing while helping mudflation soar...sounds really immersive :rolleyes:

Someone once did something poorly and that means no one should ever take their idea and improve on it.

Seems legit.

Also that's a fucking retarded summary but my above point is better.

[radda]

Ain't nobody resisting aoes on this server.

[maestrom]

I agree, I mean what better way to have an online community experience than to section yourself off from the online community and collectively reduce the price of anything worthwhile to nothing while helping mudflation soar...sounds really immersive :rolleyes:

I have as many friends that I still keep in contact today from WOW as I do from EQ.

If you can't make friends because people can get away from you into an instance then you're doing something wrong.

I guess league of legends doesn't have a community. Or CS. Or any other game that doesn't have a fully persistent world.

There are real legitimate reasons not to instance a game, but when players don't want to instance EQ, it usually boils down to them wanting to be able to keep other people from playing the game in one way or another.

[Swish]

WoW wasn't bad as a community until they added realm instancing where you basically meet 4 other people you'll never see again and crawl/grind through a dungeon you've all done 50 times while often not talking unless to berate someone not playing their class properly :p I don't miss that at all.

[maestrom]

WoW wasn't bad as a community until they added realm instancing where you basically meet 4 other people you'll never see again and crawl/grind through a dungeon you've all done 50 times while often not talking unless to berate someone not playing their class properly :p I don't miss that at all.

That's not an argument against instancing, that's an argument against random queuing in a dungeon finder.

[trite]

There has never been a more challenging mmo experience than an instanced, player-limited raid.


These are two distinct concepts you have coupled. They don't need to go hand in hand.

there has never been a more challenging mmo experience than an instance raid = probably false.

there has never been a more challenging mmo experience than a player-limited raid = maybe a grain of truth.

It's possible to implement non-instanced raid zones that constrain the number of players allowed to cooperate on the content...how to implement this in a way that can't be circumvented in a worthwhile manner is interesting food for thought.

[Swish]

That's not an argument against instancing, that's an argument against random queuing in a dungeon finder.

It is an argument against instancing, perhaps I should have elaborated.

Instancing makes the world more fragmented (obviously). In WoW's early days you instanced with the people who played on your server.... you had to worry about reputation because if you kept quitting after the first boss for that item you needed but didn't get then people won't want to play with you anymore. Then comes inter-realm instancing, where people didn't give a shit - it was just a grind for items or tokens or whatever. If the tank or priest didn't want to carry on at any point, people would be forced to quit or restart, but reputation didn't matter.

With EverQuest the same shit would apply. While overlooking the huge "not classic.gif" issue for a moment, people would want to solo content as much as possible to get their online economy sim numbers up. Literally there'd be some people perma camping seafuries, or bugs in their own Sebilis instances, or whatever rare item. Guilds could chain farm a Trakanon, VS, or whatever. Go out, come back in and restart nps.

It's so anti-EQ I can't believe the OP was suggesting it. The closest anyone else has come to saying it was (no surprises) Chest - who basically thinks everything can be solved by putting up more servers and allowing raid issues to go away that way.

Guilds at some level are forced to get along, or at least respect the thick rulebook - I think everyone would hate it if instancing hit.

[Swish]

It's possible to implement non-instanced raid zones that constrain the number of players allowed to cooperate on the content...how to implement this in a way that can't be circumvented in a worthwhile manner is interesting food for thought.

Anti-zerg mechanics would be the best <3

[maestrom]

It is an argument against instancing, perhaps I should have elaborated.

Instancing makes the world more fragmented (obviously). In WoW's early days you instanced with the people who played on your server.... you had to worry about reputation because if you kept quitting after the first boss for that item you needed but didn't get then people won't want to play with you anymore. Then comes inter-realm instancing, where people didn't give a shit - it was just a grind for items or tokens or whatever. If the tank or priest didn't want to carry on at any point, people would be forced to quit or restart, but reputation didn't matter.

With EverQuest the same shit would apply. While overlooking the huge "not classic.gif" issue for a moment, people would want to solo content as much as possible to get their online economy sim numbers up. Literally there'd be some people perma camping seafuries, or bugs in their own Sebilis instances, or whatever rare item. Guilds could chain farm a Trakanon, VS, or whatever. Go out, come back in and restart nps.

It's so anti-EQ I can't believe the OP was suggesting it. The closest anyone else has come to saying it was (no surprises) Chest - who basically thinks everything can be solved by putting up more servers and allowing raid issues to go away that way.

Guilds at some level are forced to get along, or at least respect the thick rulebook - I think everyone would hate it if instancing hit.

I've said a million times that Instancing should never happen on P99 so the classic v non-classic argument doesn't work here.

I agree that the random dungeon finder + mixed realm stuff took a big chunk out of WoW's community.

But instancing did not injure WoW's community because dungeons in WoW were instanced on day one and WoW still had a vibrant community.

Btw. It's worth noting that WoW still has a vibrant community. You can still meet people. You can still join guilds and make friends, its not even harder to do today than it was back in the day.

[trist4n]

Save the game! Make it a totally different game with care-bear mechanics that we hate in newer games! How about no. Enjoy it for what it is, and stop seeking to change it.

[Borak]

Not to be nitpicky, but it's false that there was never 'instancing' in EQ. There was. It was called, new servers.

Every few months, Verant/SOE released a few new servers, and those of us that had it on the old servers ran screaming to new ones. I hopped a few servers till I landed on Vazaelle, and I stayed there and loved it.

We don't need to instance zones. We need to instance the whole damn server. WRU green server

[Swish]

I server hopped a bunch as well.

Prexus > Lanys > Luclin > Vazaelle > Tholuxe

...then SoE got their shit together and gave the Euros some servers. Ended up on Venril Sathir and could raid at sane times ;)

[drktmplr12]

i still say variance is lowered significantly with regular repops (~2-4 weeks)

[JurisDictum]

Honestly things have improved a lot since Velious. The most straight-foward and easy way to make the server a little more healthy is to release Luclin and eventually pop. Look at some of these blue guilds.....do they really belong on a Velious server? Its like putting Mike Tyson back in time to a boxing ring in the 1950s.

[rayeatts]

WoW wasn't bad as a community until they added realm instancing where you basically meet 4 other people you'll never see again and crawl/grind through a dungeon you've all done 50 times while often not talking unless to berate someone not playing their class properly :p I don't miss that at all.



Bamm. Nailed it perfectly. This is exactly what I experienced when I tried to return to WoW a couple months ago. I even paid for a 3 month sub and then deactivated my account one week later and joined p99.

[B4EQWASCOOL]

Bamm. Nailed it perfectly. This is exactly what I experienced when I tried to return to WoW a couple months ago. I even paid for a 3 month sub and then deactivated my account one week later and joined p99.

WoW 1
Rayeatts 0

[Swish]

There's always Nostalrius if you're feeling Nostalrialgic :p

[fugazi]

I server hopped a bunch as well.

Prexus > Lanys > Luclin > Vazaelle > Tholuxe

...then SoE got their shit together and gave the Euros some servers. Ended up on Venril Sathir and could raid at sane times ;)

You didnt get into Caer Cadarn on Vazaelle..? :)

[tizznyres]

I'd say the only "difficulty" remaining on P99 is competing with other guilds for raid targets.

So now we want to remove competition? Why not just play on one of the underpopulated EQEMU servers?

While the competition between raid guilds right now is pretty abysmal, this guy hit it right on the head. Classic EverQuest was never meant to be a loot pinata for hardcore raid nerds.

[scooter]

Phinigel server coming out..
No Boxing - check
Instanced raids - check
Planned progression - check.

Obviously, OP was on to something.

[Lunababy]

You haven't even the slightest clue how much engine rework would need to be done to apply this feature to a classic server. It's a lot and won't happen. Sorry.

[Coridan]

While the competition between raid guilds right now is pretty abysmal, this guy hit it right on the head. Classic EverQuest was never meant to be a loot pinata for hardcore raid nerds.

No, but it would be nice if the younger guilds (Fires of Heaven, College of Adventure) had a chance at getting Naggy/Vox.

[Swish]

No, but it would be nice if the younger guilds (Fires of Heaven, College of Adventure) had a chance at getting Naggy/Vox.

definitely

[Ravager]

No, but it would be nice if the younger guilds (Fires of Heaven, College of Adventure) had a chance at getting Naggy/Vox.

They have exactly the same shot as any other guild on the server right now. Probably not going to get 5 other guilds to lay off of them for an uncontested shot.

[arsenalpow]

No, but it would be nice if the younger guilds (Fires of Heaven, College of Adventure) had a chance at getting Naggy/Vox.

They have exactly the same shot as any other guild on the server right now. Probably not going to get 5 other guilds to lay off of them for an uncontested shot.

I'll start. BDA will agree to be hands off the next Nagafen if all other raid guilds that regularly kill him agree to the same stipulation. This will be done to allow the very young guilds to take a crack at him. In fact I'll even dispatch people to assist if requested.

Your move everyone else.

[heartbrand]

People really talking about Nagafen in Velious? Wut? Hate to be that guy but if you came here for a personal raid instance server you should try red. You'll be killing Vulak within a week of joining the server and prolly have at least one NToV loot within 10 days.

[am0n]

I'll start. BDA will agree to be hands off the next Nagafen if all other raid guilds that regularly kill him agree to the same stipulation. This will be done to allow the very young guilds to take a crack at him. In fact I'll even dispatch people to assist if requested.

Your move everyone else.

Oh, shiiiiiit. The gauntlet has been thrown!

[Troxx]

I'll start. BDA will agree to be hands off the next Nagafen if all other raid guilds that regularly kill him agree to the same stipulation. This will be done to allow the very young guilds to take a crack at him. In fact I'll even dispatch people to assist if requested.

Your move everyone else.


Pras

The server has the capability of being a much less hostile place, but it's on the hands of the player base. Unfortunately it only takes one group of neckbeards to ruin the prospect of raiding this server on the low end. I was hopeful that Velious' arrival would open up a lot more kunark content ... Like those 32k Dragons guilds cut their teeth on ... But so far no dice.

[arsenalpow]

Pras

The server has the capability of being a much less hostile place, but it's on the hands of the player base. Unfortunately it only takes one group of neckbeards to ruin the prospect of raiding this server on the low end. I was hopeful that Velious' arrival would open up a lot more kunark content ... Like those 32k Dragons guilds cut their teeth on ... But so far no dice.

The top end is massively overpopulated, that fact coupled with variance allows for guilds to pick off each target one by one by one. To get a kill you need a deep roster or a large alliance to be able to field the necessary raid force at any time the target could spawn. Next you need to get well versed in the raid rules, understand the nuances of each encounter. Then you have to know the most bleeding strategy to race the competition and win. Then you need dedicated Fraps-ers to document anything shady that happens (the competition trains you, they claim you trained them) and be prepared to speak to the staff or offending party to negotiate a settlement.

After allllll that you might kill Nagafen, and he'll drop two Druid sticks and a black sapphire, and you'll wonder why the fuck you bother to play this god forsaken game.

[Coridan]

Cue the "not classic" but I would prefer the raid bosses be spawned on request/schedule. Letting each guild get a crack at each boss once every x days. That could be its regular apawn rate or 4 times its regular apawn rate to simulate other guilds getting it.

As I remember it on live each server really only had 2-3 raid guilds.

[arsenalpow]

Cue the "not classic" but I would prefer the raid bosses be spawned on request/schedule. Letting each guild get a crack at each boss once every x days. That could be its regular apawn rate or 4 times its regular apawn rate to simulate other guilds getting it.

As I remember it on live each server really only had 2-3 raid guilds.

You're correct, the biggest servers only had 2-3 uber raid guilds, so things were definitely contested but not like it is here. You'll never get a schedule like that here though, the p99 adage is always croot and contest (thanks red) if you want a slice of the raid pie.

[Swish]

Cue the "not classic" but I would prefer the raid bosses be spawned on request/schedule. Letting each guild get a crack at each boss once every x days. That could be its regular apawn rate or 4 times its regular apawn rate to simulate other guilds getting it.

As I remember it on live each server really only had 2-3 raid guilds.

what happens next in this clip?

http://i.imgur.com/cEtLM4w.png

[Fanguru]

Problem with naggy is that his loot is still top tier. Nothing beats bladestopper in its role and utility for pulling contested mobs through trash.
Younger guilds have a better chance at Vox if they approach CSG.

[arsenalpow]

Problem with naggy is that his loot is still top tier. Nothing beats bladestopper in its role and utility for pulling contested mobs through trash.
Younger guilds have a better chance at Vox if they approach CSG.

Vox is crazy contested because it's the easiest way to get white scales which are an incredibly hot commodity. Realistically, both Naggy and Vox die ASAP even in Velious.

[Daldaen]

No, but it would be nice if the younger guilds (Fires of Heaven, College of Adventure) had a chance at getting Naggy/Vox.

These guilds should refocus their targets on other mobs. While I know those two are the quintessential classic raid mobs... Due to their level limitations they aren't friendly for new up and coming guilds who are encouraging players to level together, beyond 52 quite often with no secondary Alts to fall back on. And due to their contested nature with how valuable Prayers, Bladestoppers, Rez Sticks and Bard Epics can be.

Mobs like...

Lord Bob
Kelorek Dar
Vindi
Talendor
Faydedar
PoHate Minis
PoGrowth Minis

None of those are super hardcore socked like the rest of the raid mobs on the server right now.

[Swish]

I think Daldaen is of the opinion that you need to go into Naggy/Vox with twinked 52s with a shit ton of resist gear.

How about we drop that mentality and try to be a little more classic? Not everything is about min/maxing each encounter.

Personally I think it would be great to see a young progressing guild down one or the other and post it up on the forums... P99 needs these guilds more than the burnout zerg guilds like Taken/BDA realize.

[Nibblewitz]

I think Daldaen is of the opinion that you need to go into Naggy/Vox with twinked 52s with a shit ton of resist gear.


No, Daldaen is right here. Taken and Forsaken teamed up to destory the last Nagafen; you need 2 raids with twinked 52s to have a shot.

[Joyelle]

someone sounds salty.

[Swish]

No, Daldaen is right here. Taken and Forsaken teamed up to destory the last Nagafen; you need 2 raids with twinked 52s to have a shot.

What an enticing community we must be for new players......

[Nibblewitz]

someone sounds salty.

A bit. I can understand flash mobbing a Velious target, because of its difficulty and required raid composition, but why up the ante on the small classic and kunark encounters?

[Ravager]

I think Daldaen is of the opinion that you need to go into Naggy/Vox with twinked 52s with a shit ton of resist gear.

How about we drop that mentality and try to be a little more classic? Not everything is about min/maxing each encounter.

Personally I think it would be great to see a young progressing guild down one or the other and post it up on the forums... P99 needs these guilds more than the burnout zerg guilds like Taken/BDA realize.

I'll fall for the troll who talks out his ass without knowing a thing about reality.

Last Vox BDA got was with 11 (less than 2 full groups) that were about as geared as your average main at that level. If these guilds want a shot, they just have to prepare and track it.

And if you want to resist a fear, yeah, you'll need a little resist gear. Fortunately a good enough resist set is only gonna run you around 3k.

Now if only I didn't have to log on to the forums to ignore Swish.

[Daldaen]

A bit. I can understand flash mobbing a Velious target, because of its difficulty and required raid composition, but why up the ante on the small classic and kunark encounters?

I wasn't on, it spawned during normal working hours I think.

What was the total force number that flash mobbed Nagafen?

[Ravager]

Last Nagafen didn't really have a zerg on any side, it was just a fustercluck from all of the training going on.

[arsenalpow]

I wasn't on, it spawned during normal working hours I think.

What was the total force number that flash mobbed Nagafen?

Mobbed AND trained from both sides. Bugs/Bats/Beetles first and then someone in that mob had a pet warp through the roof (like they have been doing) and trained everyone with Nagafen. Concessions were asked for, BDA got told to fuck off, and y'all killed the dragon. Our fraps and logs are quite conclusive but who gives a shit.

P99 raiding! Catch the fever!

Last Nagafen didn't really have a zerg on any side, it was just a fustercluck from all of the training going on.
BDA had 8, which is fine for Naggy/Vox. One of our better Vox kills was like 7 or something.

[Daldaen]

People are really bad about rushing past LDCs, especially rooted ones and not clearing their aggro.

Also people tend to forget that fighting FGs in the tunnel before 4-spawn causes them to warp above and train all of Naggy's Lair also.

Those combined make for some great fail trains.

[arsenalpow]

People are really bad about rushing past LDCs, especially rooted ones and not clearing their aggro.

Also people tend to forget that fighting FGs in the tunnel before 4-spawn causes them to warp above and train all of Naggy's Lair also.

Those combined make for some great fail trains.

Sure. I'm fine losing a Naggy in a straight up race. But when my guys are rolling 8 deep, and your nearly 30 man 2guild allied raid force trains all the trash AND Naggy at different points in the race AND this is the response when confronted:

[Tue Dec 08 11:10:11 2015] *Redacted* tells you, 'wasnt anything to compromise, their was maybe 10 bda in zone... we were the ones in the position of power...'

After allllll that is when I'm going to get annoyed.

[Montreal]

To those saying that splitting the server would kill the population, you are wrong from my point of view. When there's 800 players online, but 300 of them are socking NtoV/AoW etc etc, the real population for casual players like me is 500 players.

I don't raid a lot, so I dont have interactions with most members of the top guilds. If there was a server split and most casual players moved there and the top guilds remained here, most casual wouldn't even see the difference. I'm sorry to say that because there are plenty of nice people in the top guilds, but from a Casual player's point of view, top-end players basicly don't exist and are not part of the same community. .

Let's be honest here. We are not all playing the same game. There's a huge difference between population and community. Let's say all the casual players left the server, aside from being unable to sell your unwanted loot in EC, this game would be basicly the same for the top guild members : Get batphone, log on, compete with the same guilds for the same mobs, log off. Prepare your next RnF posts.

I don't think instances is a good option, but my opinion is irrelevant about that because that content is not meant for players like me on this server and never will. If there was ever a casual server on the horizon, I would gladly make the move. Something like limiting a guild's rosters to 100 toons would probably be enought to make sure the high-end drama we see here wouldn't find it's way there.

[arsenalpow]

Limiting the roster does nothing, you'll just have ZergGuildAlpha, ZergGuildBeta, etc. You can still coordinate without guildchat.

There's only really two factions at the top end, those willing to do what Rampage/ForsakenGard are willing to do for pixels, and those that find issue with some of the more unseemly aspects of the raid scene. Honestly, I don't think anyone is really enjoying the raid scene. It's fun when you get loot, some of the personalities are funny to deal with, performing wacky pulls is always interesting, but it's not fun. You do what you have to do in order to get the pixels if that's your motivating factor while playing on p99.

I don't want to be the doom and gloom guy but the raid scene is as bad as it's ever been, and even knowing that I'll be around jumping through hoops because I want to keep my community together, and playing the game is what makes us stick together (us = BDA)

[mgellan]

If there was ever a casual server on the horizon, I would gladly make the move. Something like limiting a guild's rosters to 100 toons would probably be enought to make sure the high-end drama we see here wouldn't find it's way there.

Any new server would immediately be descended upon by the neckbeards to ramp up to 50 in weeks and "dominate" raid content so they "win" while continuing to answer batphones on Blue IMHO. I fail to see how this will help casual players. You're just giving them something more interesting to do versus levelling alts on Blue. Limiting rosters won't change this one bit... sorry!

Regards,
Mg

[khanable]

You're correct, the biggest servers only had 2-3 uber raid guilds, so things were definitely contested but not like it is here. You'll never get a schedule like that here though, the p99 adage is always croot and contest (thanks red) if you want a slice of the raid pie.

Not only were there 2-3 higher end guilds, they also contained significantly less people and had far less of a turnover rate. I remember on live having 45 people was basically a zerg.

What we have on p99 is the 2001 equivalent of merging all level 60's from 6 servers onto one server and the 1-59 crowd was taken from the test server.

:p

[indiscriminate_hater]

BDA doing big things, killing naggy and vox on the reg. apply now!

[arsenalpow]

BDA doing big things, killing naggy and vox on the reg. apply now!

Let's enroll you in jelly school. I'll contact the dean of admissions.

[am0n]

Let's enroll you in jelly school. I'll contact the dean of admissions.

I hear special needs students have a higher tuition. Make sure you inform the dean of his special needs.

[ManuelThePopStar]

Any new server would immediately be descended upon by the neckbeards to ramp up to 50 in weeks and "dominate" raid content so they "win" while continuing to answer batphones on Blue IMHO. I fail to see how this will help casual players. You're just giving them something more interesting to do versus levelling alts on Blue. Limiting rosters won't change this one bit... sorry!

Regards,
Mg

And that's fine. The problem with p99 is that people have 10 lvl 60s. Hell I know of certain individuals that have several level 60s of the same class.

This allows guilds to have raid forces simultaneously camped at multiple raid locations.

A new server, WITH CHARDOK AE PULLING NERFED TO NONVIABILITY, would be ideal.

[ManuelThePopStar]

Not only were there 2-3 higher end guilds, they also contained significantly less people and had far less of a turnover rate. I remember on live having 45 people was basically a zerg.

What we have on p99 is the 2001 equivalent of merging all level 60's from 6 servers onto one server and the 1-59 crowd was taken from the test server.

:p

The members of those guilds also had ONE level 60 main (rarely some individuals dual box leveled, and had two lvl 60 mains). They were content on raid gearing one room and MAYBE one alt. Shit I remember doing Halls of Testing/plane of growth farms early Velious and our guild would only have maybe 10 level 60s there. 75% of the people at the raid would be levels 55 - 59.

They didn't have 8 or 10 or 12 level 60s to feed like many players here do.

These people not only want all of their alts geared in BIS Velious gear, but they care equally as much about ensuring that other people never get said gear themselves. Something about "exclusivity" is what I usually hear people mumble.

Sadly it seems like people on live, back in the year 2000, cared less about this "exclusivity" than people on p99 do today.

And I played on a fucking pvp server during live so competition for pve gear (that allowed you to subsequently dominate in pvp) was even more intense than most blue servers at the time.

[Coridan]

We can block MQing while we're at it. Camp your own JBoots.

[Crom]

Nah, /guildwar would be a much better investment of time/resources.

/This

[Heebo]

Nah, /guildwar would be a much better investment of time/resources./This
Play red. It's literally the ideal raid scene you're asking for.

[Nibblewitz]

Play red. It's literally the ideal raid scene you're asking for.

Red is deader than TMO.

[Daldaen]

Sim Repops. Sim Repops. Sim Repops.

Reduced Variance. Reduced Variance. Reduced Variance.

Make the mobs overlap, multiple spawns at once and herpderping over each other for the one mob in window is not going to happen. Going after a secondary target instead will be the favored option for almost every guild when two are spawning Simultaneously.

[Tuljin]

4 years of Kunark along with two years of a steady Chardok AOE machine (essentially created by the neckbeards who wanted their guild to "win" and lock out everybody else) has bloated the top end of this server beyond all repair. All the comments about "classic" guilds are right on...even people who paid for two Gold accounts were spending a pretty penny to play EQ, someone with 10 lvl 60 alts was not only impossible from a time standpoint but also from a financial standpoint.

The server has nowhere to go and there's way too many 60s. Chardok AOE from a mechanic standpoint is "classic" but it really has negatively affected the server. It would be easier to nerf Chardok AOE than this two years + of Lawyerquest culture. It is currently beyond all repair. So much of "classic" EQ was the adventure and "difficulty" of making it to 60, not coming over from another MMO and plvling your alts to 60 as fast as possible so you can be Mr. Cool on Teamspeak, which by the way also didn't really exist back then. 100 people in a VOIP program in 2001??? Come on now people. Elaborate guild forums and DKP counters? Not "classic" at all.

With the appropriate level distribution, patch repops, lack of variance, and non-zerg guilds, "classic" EQ didn't NEED instances. The metagame here has completely changed EQ and has turned it into a miserable experience. This metagame DKP and raid attendance % ripped from MMOs that came years later changes the game drastically. Most players on this server can't even really "play" EQ. At all. Its sad really.

[Heebo]

Red is deader than TMO.

Not true. Give it a shot.

[Ravager]

Not true. Give it a shot.

I did once. It was the loneliest I've ever felt.

[Tuljin]

http://i.imgur.com/sGHf7P6.png

A whole library of color-coded spreadsheets shared on GoogleDocs with an army of neckbeards constantly editing them? There is no "competing" with this. Whatever the hell "competition" means on a PvE server anyways. Also......NOT CLASSIC.

The metagame has drastically changed everything, which is why people are shouting for instances, which is just another change to a game that is already drastically changed. This server is long gone. Lawyerquest will never stop, nobody will "play nice." The only thing you can do is either have a pixel addiction and want to sit in teamspeak with your buddies and hardcore poopsock, or play the game on your on terms, which requires not having a pixel addiction, which is really why people play MMOs in the first place.

Instancing will change the game entirely and it is impossible to implement. Nobody wants to roll Red because nobody wants to leave their precious pixels behind and lots of people like just being able to sit on a spawn and talk in voicechat without getting killed. A lot of people would probably like Red its just nobody wants to start over on a completely empty server. Especially consider that most people who play here now can't even "play" EQ anyways and can't get levels without a PLVL or Chardok AOE, so the idea of people going to a low populated Red server, although great, will never happen.

Assimilate or play another game, thats P99 folks. Have fun.

[thufir]

or play the game on your on terms, which requires not having a pixel addiction, which is really why people play MMOs in the first place.
Speak for yourself, man. Surely, it's why you're playing which is why this bothers you so much.

I think raiders miss the thriving casual scene that lurks in the zones they never see. They solo their raid-necessary classes from 1 to 60, with occasional guild groups or chardok proxies, and then theorize that the whole game is dying. Meanwhile, level 8 dark elf warriors find groups at orc 1 in ec with newbies who are happy to get rawhide drops.

It's plenty active, even if it's a clusterfuck at the top where you spend most of your time.

[Crevex]

Just another BDA tear thread. Nothing to see here folks.

[Tuljin]

Speak for yourself, man. Surely, it's why you're playing which is why this bothers you so much.

I think raiders miss the thriving casual scene that lurks in the zones they never see. They solo their raid-necessary classes from 1 to 60, with occasional guild groups or chardok proxies, and then theorize that the whole game is dying. Meanwhile, level 8 dark elf warriors find groups at orc 1 in ec with newbies who are happy to get rawhide drops.

It's plenty active, even if it's a clusterfuck at the top where you spend most of your time.

Lol dude, I'm on your side =)

My experience with hardcore "raiding" and experiences with those who influence the mess this server has become has left such a bitter taste in my mouth I barely even play. This server should have banned Chardok AOE years ago. I wish there were a more evenly distributed level range. I play just to play these days.

Everyone is just so pixel sick nobody really has a real conversation around here. Its all manipulating rules to benefit themselves to get more pixels. Nobody who isn't a guild leader wants to speak up because the pixel faucet gets turned right off real quickly.

I realize there are many nubs who are happy getting leather drops and let me tell you what I have spent countless hours on this server over the years helping random nubs. I frequent GFay to bank and I always help lowbies if I can who are waiting at the spires or who /ooc for a bit of help or need to go somewhere. I will even go above and beyond. I am always happy to answer tells from random nubs who have questions about the game and I'm not a dick. I am happy to help absolute nubs get into classic EQ. This brings me joy, much like spreadsheet jockeying, poopsocking, and locking people out of content and "winning" brings others joy.

When you are busy constantly doing Random Guild Specific Quest #1235342 for DKP you "have no time" to do anything else. Instead of enhancing the community and doing steps to envigorate it you are contributing to what created all this ridiculous Lawyerquest nonsense in the first place.

If anyone wants to complain about how absurd this server has become, its really not the staff's fault. Yes they could do way more earthquakes but I am well aware their hands are full.

All these complaints need to be directed to the guild leaders of this server who even let the server escalate to this point rather than "play nice." The server is in the hands of the players and the hegemony loves their metagame and forum and voicechat circlejerks.

The server staff is not to blame. The community is to blame. These nerds will keep talking in circles for years. They already have been. The hegemony will continue to keep that revolving door going to keep their guilds flush with warm bodies in order to fuel their pixel lust and Spreadsheetquest. Its an old story, really.

[thufir]

Lol dude, I'm on your side =)
There's no "side" here. There's just ways to looking at how to play the game.

When you say this and then launch into a multi-paragraph rant about nerds and pixel lust and locking out whatever, it's obvious we're not looking at it the same way.

Feel free to keep voicing your concerns, naturally, but you should be aware that there's a large group of people that are, in fact, playing just to play without any concern about this stuff. We don't see how it's become "absurd", because for us it isn't.

[Tuljin]

Well as they say my friend "ignorance is bliss" and the server needs more players like you. P99 isn't going anywhere and those who want to get their levels "the old fashioned" way will be able to.

This "absurd" nonsense between the guilds has been happening for years. It is always the usual suspects and the neckbeards need to be kept in check. Very few of us are willing to do it, and as a result this nonsense has escalated to the point where we have threads talking about instancing a "classic" game experience that was never designed to be instanced. That is what is "absurd" my friend.

[kb2005]

I think raiders miss the thriving casual scene that lurks in the zones they never see. They solo their raid-necessary classes from 1 to 60, with occasional guild groups or chardok proxies, and then theorize that the whole game is dying. Meanwhile, level 8 dark elf warriors find groups at orc 1 in ec with newbies who are happy to get rawhide drops.


The latter is the p99 I play. It's fun :B

[Ravager]

A whole library of color-coded spreadsheets shared on GoogleDocs with an army of neckbeards constantly editing them? There is no "competing" with this. Whatever the hell "competition" means on a PvE server anyways. Also......NOT CLASSIC.

Pretty sure they had forums back then and kept track of stuff the same way, even if the spreadsheets weren't color coded.

[lakedoo23]

What about a mechanic in the game that would phase out the mob killed to the previous guild UNTIL the window has elapsed.

So for example Rampage kills Zlandicar, it would spawn at it's normal interval, but is phased out for all Rampage members. Once the variance on the mob has elapsed (giving ample time for other guilds to attempt an FTE) it would then become available to everyone.

Just an idea...

/flame on

[Tuljin]

Pretty sure they had forums back then and kept track of stuff the same way, even if the spreadsheets weren't color coded.

Dude....come on....this is a whole different level than 2001. There's no way. Guilds weren't downing the entire xpac from Day 1. They weren't keeping track of each kill to gloat to the rest of the server on the boards. Boss kills weren't even guaranteed for quite some time, let alone hundreds of them in a matter of weeks. Because of the release of new content they were quickly shifting priorities and spending considerable resources just figuring out how to kill mobs. They did not have a stranglehold on the server with their alt army. They did not field 100 for a raid at any hour of the day.

The point is the neckbeards will continue to be neckbeards and you either play on their terms or get sick of the game and do something else. Everyone is just talking in circles. They will never get sick of it, this is their "fun." Much like a lot of my "fun" is calling them out on it. Many hardcore classic players who saw the BS on this server and were also calling the hegemony on their BS quit years ago, knowing that it would never change.

Instead of instancing just ban Chardok AOE but its too late for that. The Chardok ban would have drastically reduced the level 60 population of this server. Drastically. Literally "decimate" - reduce to a tenth of what it once was. It was the only really viable solution that could have easily come from an "unclassic" decree from the staff in order to prevent the headache that is Lawyerquest and would ultimately be for the long-term health of the server. We all know that there was a serious lobby against that ever happening, and they were successful.

Its too late now. We've been trying to create "rules" for years and it always gets to the point where one group of manbabies wants to stop abiding by them. Wash, rinse, repeat. Its been the usual suspects for years. Most players here are too new to even realize and know no different.

[Ravager]

Dude....come on....this is a whole different level than 2001. There's no way. Guilds weren't downing the entire xpac from Day 1. They weren't keeping track of each kill to gloat to the rest of the server on the boards. Boss kills weren't even guaranteed for quite some time, let alone hundreds of them in a matter of weeks. Because of the release of new content they were quickly shifting priorities and spending considerable resources just figuring out how to kill mobs. They did not have a stranglehold on the server with their alt army. They did not field 100 for a raid at any hour of the day.

The point is the neckbeards will continue to be neckbeards and you either play on their terms or get sick of the game and do something else. Everyone is just talking in circles. They will never get sick of it, this is their "fun." Much like a lot of my "fun" is calling them out on it. Many hardcore classic players who saw the BS on this server and were also calling the hegemony on their BS quit years ago, knowing that it would never change.

Instead of instancing just ban Chardok AOE but its too late for that. The Chardok ban would have drastically reduced the level 60 population of this server. Drastically. Literally "decimate" - reduce to a tenth of what it once was. It was the only really viable solution that could have easily come from an "unclassic" decree from the staff in order to prevent the headache that is Lawyerquest and would ultimately be for the long-term health of the server. We all know that there was a serious lobby against that ever happening, and they were successful.

Its too late now. We've been trying to create "rules" for years and it always gets to the point where one group of manbabies wants to stop abiding by them. Wash, rinse, repeat. Its been the usual suspects for years. Most players here are too new to even realize and know no different.

When guilds solved quests and learned how to down the content, they kept track of that stuff, it just wasn't made public. The difference is everyone knows it all now, everyone knows the fastest ways 1-60, everyone knows all the cash camps. If you want to get away from that, you're only chance is on a custom content server or new MMO. You won't get either of those here, so if you want to play here, work with what we've got. If you want an instanced server, get coding, because I doubt the P99 team is interested in it.

[thufir]

The latter is the p99 I play. It's fun :B

Exactly! This place is awesome if you don't take it too seriously =)

Well as they say my friend "ignorance is bliss" and the server needs more players like you.

My point is that the server has plenty of players like me. Rumors of how it's just a bunch of pixel lusting whatevers is simply who you hang/hung out with. And the forum population is, naturally, skewed heavily towards them.

If you want to spend some time with people like me or kb2005, roll up some untwinked characters and find groups in ec or befallen. You might be surprised.

[Loanarn]

Instead of instancing just ban Chardok AOE but its too late for that. The Chardok ban would have drastically reduced the level 60 population of this server. Drastically. Literally "decimate" - reduce to a tenth of what it once was.

To Decimate is to reduce by a tenth not to reduce to a tenth.

[Pyrocat]

https://i.imgur.com/GociYqN.gif

[Calibretto]

People really talking about Nagafen in Velious? Wut? Hate to be that guy but if you came here for a personal raid instance server you should try red. You'll be killing Vulak within a week of joining the server and prolly have at least one NToV loot within 10 days.


Who cares? That would be like having all the money in the world and there being 13 people left on the planet. Yay.

[Raev]

Look, this is an emulated server. On live, the difficulty lay in figuring out the tactics, learning the zones, solving the quests and so on to obtain the gear that you would need because the next expansion was 6-12 months away when the whole business would start over again. On P1999, the tactics are known, the zones are known, the quests are known, and the gear (from Velious onwards) will never go obsolete. Chardok and invis pulling have certainly hurt, but the reality is that with much less content much more slowly it was never going to be like live. I wish the server was more chill, ala EQMac, but the admins here have promoted competition from day one, and they have their wish.

In some ways, I think it's more fun when you know that if you wipe you won't get another shot. My favorite EQ moment remains sniping TMO's Overseer of Air :D

[ManuelThePopStar]

And <Rampage> is already selling NTOV loots for 200k+ a pop. Funny considering all the trash they talked about TMO that now they're doing exactly the same thing.

These people were willing to farm the same Kunark dragons for 5 years - will they go for 10 years on Velious dragons?

[pasi]

Look, this is an emulated server. On live, the difficulty lay in figuring out the tactics, learning the zones, solving the quests and so on to obtain the gear that you would need because the next expansion was 6-12 months away when the whole business would start over again. On P1999, the tactics are known, the zones are known, the quests are known, and the gear (from Velious onwards) will never go obsolete. Chardok and invis pulling have certainly hurt, but the reality is that with much less content much more slowly it was never going to be like live. I wish the server was more chill, ala EQMac, but the admins here have promoted competition from day one, and they have their wish.

In some ways, I think it's more fun when you know that if you wipe you won't get another shot. My favorite EQ moment remains sniping TMO's Overseer of Air :D


http://i.imgur.com/sDrcaXEl.jpg

Rise above, old friend.

[arsenalpow]

And <Rampage> is already selling NTOV loots for 200k+ a pop. Funny considering all the trash they talked about TMO that now they're doing exactly the same thing.

These people were willing to farm the same Kunark dragons for 5 years - will they go for 10 years on Velious dragons?

Go look at the server first wiki, IB/TR came before Rampage, then TMO (after IB rmt'd off the server) and now back to IB again under a new name. It's the same group of people, front runner neckbeards.

[Man0warr]

Most of what they are selling is Knight shit though.

[ManuelThePopStar]

Most of what they are selling is Knight shit though.

Lol send a tell asking about any item. If it's not a vulak drop, they'll give u a price

[Nisse]

ITT: Hyperbole

[86753o9]

Literally "decimate" - reduce to a tenth of what it once was.

That is literally not what decimate means. Way off!

[Tuljin]

So I'm a nub for the "decimate" thing thanks for correcting me lol to make an excuse I was thinking of a similar verb in Greek...but yes the level 60 population would be a fraction of what it is now if not for Chardok AOE.

Chardok AOE really started underground by TMO back when a few years back they were secretly trying to crank toons to 60 to park them everywhere and that obviously escalated...and besides AOE = RMT and if the staff is so concerned about RMT they should have really put a hard ban on it. The “that’s not classic” excuse got old a long, long time ago.
Go look at the server first wiki, IB/TR came before Rampage, then TMO (after IB rmt'd off the server) and now back to IB again under a new name. It's the same group of people, front runner neckbeards.
Chest is right. Also, look at the officer corps of Rampage/IB/TR – half of them were TMO while IB was off the server. As I’ve said time and time again, it’s the usual suspects.
And <Rampage> is already selling NTOV loots for 200k+ a pop. Funny considering all the trash they talked about TMO that now they're doing exactly the same thing.

These people were willing to farm the same Kunark dragons for 5 years - will they go for 10 years on Velious dragons?
Yes they will. They will keep the revolving door of nubs coming over from WoW and other EZmode MMOs going to keep everything possible.
Look, this is an emulated server. On live, the difficulty lay in figuring out the tactics, learning the zones, solving the quests and so on to obtain the gear that you would need because the next expansion was 6-12 months away when the whole business would start over again. On P1999, the tactics are known, the zones are known, the quests are known, and the gear (from Velious onwards) will never go obsolete. Chardok and invis pulling have certainly hurt, but the reality is that with much less content much more slowly it was never going to be like live. I wish the server was more chill, ala EQMac, but the admins here have promoted competition from day one, and they have their wish.
Spoken like a true leader.
http://i.imgur.com/sDrcaXEl.jpg

Rise above, old friend.
One of the great players of this server and a member of “the movement” who got sick of this BS a long time ago. Some of us unfortunately can’t “rise above,” as we have all seen. This is hilarious by the way and absolutely 100% appropriate. I totally “get” this joke and I wish the rest of you could too because it’s hysterical.
https://i.imgur.com/GociYqN.gif
This is typical behavior of people caught entirely with their pants down. Again, there is little actual discussion about solving “problems” around here, especially when the hegemony of this server doesn't view these “problems” as “problems” at all. Any time I've attempted any intelligent discussion with anybody "important" on this server, this is the attitude. And look where it got us.

I’ve gone the way of Mo and many other comrades. He’s the type of people with whom I would like to be associated, many of them gone from this server, victims of blatant demagogy and sociopathy. I’ll leave the egregious online sociopathy to the rest of you to be “competitive” with and “have fun” with. I've had enough of it and I'll be around just to give friendly pokes here and there. As they say, it takes all kinds.

[Filthy_Pagan]

Nah, /guildwar would be a much better investment of time/resources.

Oh god I loved guild wars. It was extra exciting when you had to travel with guildies in case of ambushes.

[Waedawen]

I think it's funny here how the people saying "it's only competition bro" are the people from the scum sucking zerg guild with 200 mains and alts camped around the world at any given time.

Pffffthaahahahha what a bunch of fuckers

[jwargod]

I think it's funny here how the people saying "it's only competition bro" are the people from the scum sucking zerg guild with 200 mains and alts camped around the world at any given time.

Pffffthaahahahha what a bunch of fuckers

Guild(S)

Unless you talking about red. Then it is a single one. Regardless, sucks for both servers.

[Kixx]

how is this not in RNF yet?

[Filthy_Pagan]

This wouldn't be a bad idea IF.. and only if.. everything dropped in raid zones were no drop/ no trade. As it stands now, this would really damage the economy.

[Sk00ba5t3v3]

Wipe both servers and make 1 team based pvp server. Problem solved.

[undomi]

solution: once you begin to kill a raid boss, you're automatically flagged pvp whether you want to be or not and this pvp status lasts for up to 2 hours after raid boss kill. there's your competition! lots of competition. you no longer have to petition about being trained cause you're too busy trying to kill boss and avoid being wiped by angry competitors. lol

/tiptoes outta the room