Need Clarification Please!

[Detoxx]

Seeking clarification on the new rules. If guild A has FTE on a mob in ToV, it is pretty well known that you cannt FTE anything in ToV ot Kael, but outside of that, are we locked out of FTEs from every mob outside Kael and ToV as well?

Being as the Title of the thread is: Tov and King Tormax / Statue Specific Rules my interpretation is that this only applies to ToV and Kael. In the post ot states you cannot FTE any mobs though, causing confusion and room for lawyer questing.

Would also like to know how other guilds interpret this.

Any clarification would be much appreciated!

Thanks!

[Daldaen]

I read "any other raid mobs" as any other raid mobs. Though I do understand there is some LawyerQuest grey area due to those rules being specifically for ToV and Kael.

But I think the intent behind them was to encourage a focus on the target. Those 60 minutes are supposed to allow you time to cleanly pull and kill your target mob. Not hang out with it on lockdown while you snipe Faydedar before you return to kill your target.

I would also appreciate Sirken's clarification on this.

[arsenalpow]

My interpretation is that the rule only applies to Kael/ToV where the one hour grace period is in effect.

[Sirken]

I read "any other raid mobs" as any other raid mobs.
this ^

[Daldaen]

Thus the hammer comes down and it is so.

The rule is intended to be once you're locked into a ToV or Kael target, that is to be your focus. No breaking off for Kunark or other Velious targets until your locked target is dead.

I also have a few other clarifications Sirken if you could. The first is more of a Nilbog question.

Vulak's Shout Change - I have no idea what this change entails, but it sounds like it is the dragon will override aggro, similar to Cazic Thule or Tunare's summon calls. This is a disastrous change when coupled with 16 hour variance.

Guilds classicly would clear NToV and then engage Vulak last, knowing no other dragons will be up. But with 16 hour variance this is not a possibility and it is very possible another dragon may spawn, and get called to Vulak while he is being fought. This is problematic. Guilds have no way of preventing this really. If the change removed the ability to kite these dragons away from your camp, either you need to be able to offtank Vulak and kill the second dragon (which is banned by the 1 dragon FTE at a time rule) or you must kill Vulak before the other dragon gets to your camp (definitely not possible many times). It would be nice to know exactly what this patch note means before a guild pulls Vulak and trains the hell out of everyone because of a new mechanic applied to his event.

I suppose the question for you would be, if you've already got Vulak engaged and another dragon spawns, and this change prevents you from kiting and therefore conceding the target... A guilds only option would be to offtank Vulak and attempt to slay the other dragon (which would be an impressive feat for any guild to even pull off)... Would such an attempt atleast be allowed? Or what would you want guilds to do if they have Vulak FTE and a second dragon spawns who is linked to him.

Lev Ring Jumping - This exploit has been banned in several player made agreements in the past and I would like some official ruling on the matter. Because I'm sure not everyone (including GMs) is aware of the meta-game of EQRacing. When you jump and use instant levitate clickies while jumping, it pushes you forward. Basically it allows you to gain an advantage in a footrace where levitate is allowed (Kael). Is this practice allowable? In the past there has been banning of using other levitate based exploits like the levitate tunnel in Vox's Lair among other areas. I can't imagine why this would be allowable but i figured it's worth asking so everyone is on the same page.

Repops - When the server shakes I believe the understanding is the second the shake happens you can leave the starting line because mobs are known to be spawning even though it may not happen instantly these days.

However when the server comes down for a patch or reset, the rule hasn't been clearly said. In these cases players are still expected to be camped at the starting line, not parking them underneath raid targets they expect will be spawned when they log in? Is this correct?

[Breaken]

Thank you for the clarification. Could you also clarify this situation:

Guild A gets fte in another zone, say VP. A mob in ToV spawns. The vp mob is coming into camp. Can Guild A run for FTE? My interpretation is yes, as long as you don't get new fte on VP mob after fte on tov mob goes out.

[Daldaen]

I suppose that's an interesting point too...

If ToV/Kael lock you out of the rest... The rest doesn't lock you out of ToV and Kael? So you can get Faydedar FTE and during his 10min pull get Dozekar FTE. Kill Fay then port over and kill Dozekar during your 60min.

[bktroost]

Isn't the intent of the rule to push guilds to not locking content while they are killing other mobs?

[Detoxx]

Isn't the intent of the rule to push guilds to not locking content while they are killing other mobs?

It was my understanding that the intent of the rule was to give all guilds equal footing to attempt and kill any mob.

[Culkasi]

It was my understanding that the intent of the rule was to give all guilds equal footing to attempt and kill any mob.

Hopefully that wasn't the case because as we discussed earlier today that is a pipe dream that will never come true.

The rule in place on the back of guilds getting trained in ToV, and the rule was in place so that you no longer had to pull dragons all over the place and had an hour to go and kill them. For some reason Aftermath and Awakened still aren't doing that, but that was the intention of the rule when it was discussed.

[Detoxx]

Hopefully that wasn't the case because as we discussed earlier today that is a pipe dream that will never come true.

The rule in place on the back of guilds getting trained in ToV, and the rule was in place so that you no longer had to pull dragons all over the place and had an hour to go and kill them. For some reason Aftermath and Awakened still aren't doing that, but that was the intention of the rule when it was discussed.

BDA, Anon and Divinity have all had multiple kills in ToV since these rules were implemented. You all have pulled to west zone out. Also, good luck clearing to Trips or sisters in an hour or less. This is much different than live. On live there was maybe one or 2 guilds even capable of NToV, not 7.

[bktroost]

BDA, Anon and Divinity have all had multiple kills in ToV since these rules were implemented. You all have pulled to west zone out. Also, good luck clearing to Trips or sisters in an hour or less. This is much different than live. On live there was maybe one or 2 guilds even capable of NToV, not 7.

your classic>my classic.

Same fight, different thread.

[Detoxx]

your classic>my classic.

Same fight, different thread.

It's not about my classic or your classic etc it's about working with what we have here. On Project 1999. Clearing to mobs is not realistic. The nightmare that would entail is so much worse than the current. It was done on live different because of different circumstances. We need to work on a realistic plan. This back and forth of how it should be is getting us no where.

[arsenalpow]

BDA, Anon and Divinity have all had multiple kills in ToV since these rules were implemented. You all have pulled to west zone out. Also, good luck clearing to Trips or sisters in an hour or less. This is much different than live. On live there was maybe one or 2 guilds even capable of NToV, not 7.

BDA and Div/Anon have kills from an earthquake situation and a mass concession of dragons due to Vulak aggro. It's not like we won them.

[raato]

I don't think any ruleset or amount of clarification will help to make raid scene "better" and more enjoyable for majority when there is people who intentionally are pushing as far as they can without going over the edge and trying to find every loophole they can possibly get benefit from and when their mindset is that its not cheating unless you get caught. And when there isnt someone supervising the rules 24/7 and enforcing them.

If players want it to be a shitshow, let it be. If GMs want it to be PVP environment on PVE content, just let it be. So go ahead and remove all the rules from ToV, Kael, VP etc. and let the anarchy rule for a while and see if players can actually grow up and make agreements that work for all of us. And I guarantee we have a working raid scene in 3-6 months.

[bktroost]

Or just split us out. I mean come on, CSG spent over 200 man hours on monday trying for every mob on the table. Every single one just to see if we could get FTE. I didn't understand why so many people were spamming clickies or how I was constantly being outrun by people who I had a huge head start on. I kept wondering if it was because I was a halfling or something, but I knew it wasn't a fair fight.

Do I HAVE to learn how to cheat (and i hear those people are being banned/suspended) in order to play on this server? Next time we fix the rule to something we think works it will be a whole new set of mechanic manipulation that GMs will have to create 500 new micro rules for every clicky item and mechanic.

I have to imagine that the reason for this is because they WANT to play that way. Why can't we split the server so that those who want to play that way and those who want a rotation can live in peace? We haven't really discussed that because we keep dismissing it. Put stock into it and you will have the clarifications you want.

The AAs can make their player made agreements (which i do not enjoy signing off on anything that break server rules) and essential craft the environment they want to live in. They won't have to deal with us casuals who won't sign player made agreements, don't want to train mobs around and won't use item manipulation to give us unsportsmanlike (or illegal) advantages.

[Breaken]

I'm not sure what player agreements you think we have. I can think of two..

Lord Yelinak you have 2 minutes? to get her to summoning range, or you are stalling.

Plane of Growth, if a guild starts clearing, it is theirs until they leave. This prevents Tunare snipes.

Neither of these break any server rules. Also, you are complaining about people using clickies... Awakened asked for the footrace rules to be amended to allow for Spirit of Scale. Allowing this would negate any clicky advantage and bind sight advantage.

[Kileras]

can we add crown of rile spam so you can spam jump to the list of racing stuff that isn't fair to all participating? Should we also remove non LoS bard pulling ? The goal was to try and level out the playing field, and as you can see from this thread I don't think many find it very level.

It would be great to know if the spirit of the rule was to prevent train pulling, or if it was to prevent needing multiple coth mages parked coth ducking to secure FTE on anything in NtoV. It would be clear to tell if the new changes/rules helped alleviate any of that or not. The one hour to engage rule I think is a fantastic step towards making the mobs more open to lower tier guilds, but if the name of the game is still training around to the primary kill points ( west and entrance ) it is somewhat of a null point unless on a quake.

anonymous was able to survive in ToV on last quake because of people being busy elsewhere. any situation where csg/AA/div/anon/bda go for NtoV will be an absolute and complete mess.

[Breaken]

can we add crown of rile spam so you can spam jump to the list of racing stuff that isn't fair to all participating?

Again, we asked for Spirit of Scale to be allowed, since using your Crown, or lev jumping in kael, or any other trick (Bind Sight), would cancel your Scale, leaving you way in the back. Haven't seen this change yet, but I personally think it is the easiest fix to the most issues.

[Detoxx]

Again, we asked for Spirit of Scale to be allowed, since using your Crown, or lev jumping in kael, or any other trick (Bind Sight), would cancel your Scale, leaving you way in the back. Haven't seen this change yet, but I personally think it is the easiest fix to the most issues.

I have no issues with this. After Kreizenn would certainly be interesting.