EQ: Too many zones for PvP after Kunark

[wehrmacht]

Contrary to popular opinion that instanced and keyed zones ruined the EQ live PvP servers, it actually occurred much sooner. Even with over 1000 people online, having Velious open just resulted in too many barren, mid-level and outdoors zones with nobody in them. Anybody that played EQ live PvP servers knows this but nobody really talks about it and instead tries to blame it on something more obvious like PoK or Luclin.

During Classic, you have most high level PvP centered around Guk and SolB, just two zones that direct a lot of PvP traffic around them and occasionally dragons or planes.

Once Kunark opens, you have high level PvP centered around Karnors, Sebillis, and occasionally Chardok/dragons/planes. PvP is still being funneled mostly around 2 places. The main thing to note here is that Kunark loot made most of classic loot completely obsolete, so the player base doesn't really become diluted by the addition of more zones. People just don't go to the older zones at all since there's no reason to, except an occasional epic quest item, froglok crown, or whatever.

It sounds ironic due to the reason why, but this is where the real problem starts. Velious comes out with many new high level areas while making very little Kunark content obsolete. Most high level PvP was occuring on just 1 continent before, and centered around only a few places. Now high level PvP is scattered across 2 continents and many places. The number of useless, mid-level, outdoors zones where nobody will ever find each other to PvP but you are forced to traverse anyway has also increased exponentially:

- The giant, barren zone of Iceclad ocean (as people search for lodizal)
- The giant, barren zone of Great Divide (as people run around Kael and Thurg)
- The giant, barren zone of Cobalt scar (as people run to Dragon Necropolis and ToV)
- The giant, barren zone of Wakening Lands (as people run to Skyshrine and Kael)
- The giant, barren zone of Eastern Wastes (as people run to and from Sleepers)
- The giant, barren zone of Western Wastes (as people run to ToV)

Even though the Kunark expansion added more zones, Velious dilutes PvP way more than Kunark did. I don't think the answer is to stop the server at Kunark. A server with no future expansions basically has no future. I think if this server ever is released, it should probably include all the normal classic and Kunark zones, but go custom after that and integrate the entrances for all content from Velious and beyond into the existing zones.

An example of this is how people were talking about integrating PoP zones into the old world for P99 blue server:

http://www.project1999.org/forums/showthread.php?t=11879

http://content.answcdn.com/main/content/img/amg/games/drg000/g010/g01040wv56w.jpg

[Bombfist]

<wehrmacht> no, I quit when I was 60, most people were still 55-58 and I could easily kill 10 of them at the same time




this.

Epic pvp happens in all of those zones when people are gathering for raid targets, barring EW really, nothing happens there.

Emu would see massive pvp in those zones, probably a wet dream years away though.

[Bombfist]

<wehrmacht> bombfist why did you post an IRC quote that has absolutely nothing to do with the thread
<wehrmacht> it looks like you just forged it out of thin air
<Bombfist> dunno, seems to have worked
<Bombfist> lololol
<wehrmacht> I might as well quote you talking about having sex with secrets
<Bombfist> you quit at 60 when everyone else was max level 58 roughly, yes?
<wehrmacht> since it also has nothing to do with the thread
<Bombfist> meaning you saw no real contest for the zone dragons, you complete moron
<BinnyPhone> do it!


HAD2UPDATEPOSTFORWEHRMACKT

[Bombfist]

<wehrmacht> I just told you 400 times, I quit because you could walk around for hours and not find anyone to fight even with 1000 people online
<Koota> Oh lord, someone strayed from the intended topic in your thread.
<BinnyPhone> hey kooter
<wehrmacht> no, his quote just makes no sense for the thread
<Koota> You are reckless, bombfist.
<Bombfist> i didn't ask why you quit bro
<Bombfist> i already know
<Koota> hi binner
<Bombfist> people caught up in levels, shit got hard

[Koota]

The Chernobyl disaster (locally, Chornobyl Catastrophe) was a nuclear accident that occurred on 26 April 1986 at the Chernobyl Nuclear Power Plant in Ukraine (officially Ukrainian SSR), which was under the direct jurisdiction of the central Moscow's authorities. An explosion and fire released large quantities of radioactive contamination into the atmosphere, which spread over much of Western USSR and Europe. It is considered the worst nuclear power plant accident in history, and is one of only two classified as a level 7 event on the International Nuclear Event Scale (the other being the Fukushima I nuclear accidents). The battle to contain the contamination and avert a greater catastrophe ultimately involved over 500,000 workers and cost an estimated 18 billion rubles, crippling the Soviet economy.

The disaster began during a systems test on Saturday, 26 April 1986 at reactor number four of the Chernobyl plant, which is near the city of Prypiat and within a close proximity to the administrative border with Belarus and Dnieper river. There was a sudden power output surge, and when an emergency shutdown was attempted, a more extreme spike in power output occurred, which led to a reactor vessel rupture and a series of explosions. These events exposed the graphite moderator of the reactor to air, causing it to ignite. The resulting fire sent a plume of highly radioactive smoke fallout into the atmosphere and over an extensive geographical area, including Pripyat. The plume drifted over large parts of the western Soviet Union and Europe. From 1986 to 2000, 350,400 people were evacuated and resettled from the most severely contaminated areas of Belarus, Russia, and Ukraine. According to official post-Soviet data, about 60% of the fallout landed in Belarus.

The accident raised concerns about the safety of the Soviet nuclear power industry, as well as nuclear power in general, slowing its expansion for a number of years and forcing the Soviet government to become less secretive about its procedures

[Bombfist]

<wehrmacht> The last day I played Sullon Zek, I looked for PvP for like 5 hours straight, the only person I found was a Darkenbane rogue named Dougie Fresh, got him to 20% hp then he zone plugged
<Bombfist> http://www.project1999.org/forums/showthread.php?t=37761
<Bombfist> there you go binny
<Bombfist> it's funnier since you first asked
<Bombfist> lmao
<wehrmacht> you just double posted
<Bombfist> you couldn't find anyone online in 5 hours with 1000 people online
<wehrmacht> the same thing twice
<Koota> Looks pretty different to me.
<Koota> TAKE A CLOSER LOOK, SCOUNDREL.
<Bombfist> no i didn't wehrmacht
<Bombfist> wait
<Bombfist> i can see why it took you 5 hours to find 1 person
<Bombfist> lenses
<Bombfist> get new ones

[jtaddei]

I am indirectly making appearances itt.

[Doors]

Anything custom fucking blows. Look at any other custom pvp box like altergate.

Take the good with the bad, if red99 ever happens just be happy it did. Also lol@ bombfist owning wormcheck.

[Bombfist]

<wehrmacht> I have plenty of people that want to kill me, none of them talk like that
<Koota> You have people that want to kill you?
<wehrmacht> probably
<Koota> Cool.
<Bombfist> he means in everquest
<Koota> I don't think he does lol
<Bombfist> nah, he does - if you're considering "life" to be the other option, i think they molded into the same thing in 1999.
<Bombfist> he runs around his basement
<Bombfist> asking family members to stop rooting him
<Bombfist> since he should be able to resist it after 10 years of trying
<Koota> lol
<Koota> Cater the zones and the resist system to how I want it please. Otherwise that shit is just way too inconvenient and difficult for me.

[Lasher]

SZ had shit for sustained population, teams got lopsided and people got griefed off the server more easily

I played on tz and pvp was always around the corner up until about end of PoP, the quality of pvp dropped though in luclin.

Bombfist, i love you

[bakkily]

im not even going to vote

simply they should make it original eq, the original at first, i feel somewhat like 5 months original at first, that way all the peeps who want , yes they will all be blubies, but i feel that the thought of playing in the original eq again they can exp getting sow boots when dropped off that chick in najena, and other items before they were nerfed, for the feel of there nostalgia, you guys can gank em =}. but theyll still be happy

then release kunark, and let it be original with kunark for a while, and after velious is out on p99 for 6 months, release it on the red99

yea this post may sound dumb, but its not half assed

[wehrmacht]

Bombfist is just being a retard as usual. He tried to claim I quit EQ live because everyone else caught up in levels and there were no "easy kills" left. I told him it was because you could walk around for hours and find nobody to fight even with 1000+ online due to the vast number of giant, empty zones. If it takes you 4 hours to find one decent fight, most people stop playing.


Running from Antonica to Karnors, Sebillis, Velk's Lab, Kael, Thurg, Skyshrine, etc looking for PvP takes a long and boring amount of time too.

[Bombfist]

I quit EQ live because everyone else caught up in levels and there were no "easy kills" left.

[minakto]

Bombfist is just being a retard as usual. He tried to claim I quit EQ live because everyone else caught up in levels and there were no "easy kills" left. I told him it was because you could walk around for hours and find nobody to fight even with 1000+ online due to the vast number of giant, empty zones. If it takes you 4 hours to find one decent fight, most people stop playing.


Running from Antonica to Karnors, Sebillis, Velk's Lab, Kael, Thurg, Skyshrine, etc looking for PvP takes a long and boring amount of time too.

SZ you think best server? Sz came out on velious like year half then luclin and pop dwindled too 1k in time frame of year half sounds terrible choice to pick then. You talk wanting longevity but at own admission sz plummeted quickly in pop and other server that had been around longer had higher pop

[bakkily]

doors, god by reading your shit signature, i want to punch you, though you may be a hippy, have some respect for the founding fathers

[Koota]

Running from Antonica to Karnors, Sebillis, Velk's Lab, Kael, Thurg, Skyshrine, etc looking for PvP takes a long and boring amount of time too.



<Koota> Cater the zones and the resist system to how I want it please. Otherwise that shit is just way too inconvenient and difficult for me.

[wehrmacht]

Angry Kooter stalker post here

Was blue server people's idea about integrating newer zones into older ones:

http://www.project1999.org/forums/showthread.php?t=11879

[Lasher]

Was blue server people's idea about integrating newer zones into older ones:

http://www.project1999.org/forums/showthread.php?t=11879

On TZ i would say during velious era is when the most pvp went on. Could find pvp in most zones, even more so on the actual velious continent. Sz was just troubled with small pop. Velious was the best expansion for pvp and if your server had problems supporting the numbers to have good pvp than you might want to look at what about your server was different.

[Foxx]

on RZ, there was pvp ERRRRYWHERE bros. even on my noobies

low level pking at kurns tower was A++++, ganking 45hp rings was epic lol times

mid level pvp was huge, city of mist was always full. along with karnors, guk, solb, etc etc etc etc

plenty of high level pvp.... sebilis was always big times, velks lab was always packed... karnors castle occasionally had ppl there, and u could ALWAYSSSS find people in kael farming armor.

then if u were billy badass, or had endless amounts of time, u could find people wearing the l33t gear and farming leetsauce stuff in dragon necro, sirens grotto, charasis, chardok etc etc. but sometimes u ran all the way to dragon necropolis and it would indeed be empty. sad times indeed, that wasnt fun :(

[Koota]

Was blue server people's idea about integrating newer zones into older ones, I just am creating a whole new thread to convince other people why it should be made convenient for me.

http://www.project1999.org/forums/showthread.php?t=11879



k

[Foxx]

also... low-mid level pvp GEM was a lil place i like to call dalnir. i pked a fungi tunic off somebody there, happiest day of my life. i came, i saw, and i came again.

[Lasher]

velks was packed with people even during luclin. On tz

[JayDee]

The most pvp activity by far out of any zones Classic-PoP on TZ was Gfay. 400-500 people in one zone at all times = win.

Anyone remember Ratizzity (Jouzt's brother). Grobb Grobb Army of Grobb lol

[JayDee]

Having a twink on live was like god mode pvp (fungi) cause 99% of the players had shit gear and the newbie zones were always packed to the brim.

Here's to P99 bringing that shit back *cheers*

[Doors]

doors, god by reading your shit signature, i want to punch you, though you may be a hippy, have some respect for the founding fathers

no.

[Lasher]

during velious i got a fungi tunic and made a de rog and terrorized Highkeep at like lvl 30. Even during veloius Highkeep had around 20 people at all times. Fungi,bandage procing dagger and hide was awesome

[wehrmacht]

The most pvp activity by far out of any zones Classic-PoP on TZ was Gfay. 400-500 people in one zone at all times = win.


On SZ you had XP loss for PvP death so finding 500 people standing at the noobie log singing koombaya waiting to be AE'd was kind of rare.

This must be why TZ players are so easy to kill :|

[Terpuntine]

Hi

[Titanuk]

bombfist not so bad

[Titanuk]

Hi

hay friend

[Darwoth]

making it so anon doesn't function or masks level/class but reveals zone would go a long way toward solving some of the issues with population spread.

[Pudge]

making it so anon doesn't function or masks level/class but reveals zone would go a long way toward solving some of the issues with population spread.

yes. we take it for granted on vztz that we had the ability to /who.. and it should be this way on R99 as well. it lets ppl check on the opposing guilds and see if they are gearing up or already on a raid, in which case you gather the troops and roll out. without /who, ppl would be twiddling their thumbs while others raided, and spawn times would be largely unknown.. the game would be about ninjaing mobs rather than pvp. also, running around for 2 hours and finding no pvp would suck.

i can't imagine a fun pvp server if /anon worked to conceal location.

[Crazycloud]

I never had problems finding pvp on SZ till PoP came out(in old world zones).

Most pvp was in PoP after it came out.

[mimixownzall]

<wehrmacht> I just told you 400 times, I quit because you could walk around for hours and not find anyone to fight even with 1000 people online

Really? So... all the dungeons were empty? No newts/goods AT ALL were leveling? You're full of shit or were too scared to go into dungeons and kill people. Judging by your greenie farming on altergate, I'm leaning to option b.

[mimixownzall]

Having a twink on live was like god mode pvp (fungi) cause 99% of the players had shit gear and the newbie zones were always packed to the brim.

Here's to P99 bringing that shit back *cheers*

The best twink pvp was when they made it where you spawned with your gear if you were level 10 and under. I made a DE in full twink gear and bound him in Gfay. It was pure ownage running around hacking up noobs. A high level come and kill me? NP, I just spawn in full gear and continue my ganking, or I would run him to Lfay where my 60 necro friend was waiting for them.

[mimixownzall]

yes. we take it for granted on vztz that we had the ability to /who.. and it should be this way on R99 as well. it lets ppl check on the opposing guilds and see if they are gearing up or already on a raid, in which case you gather the troops and roll out. without /who, ppl would be twiddling their thumbs while others raided, and spawn times would be largely unknown.. the game would be about ninjaing mobs rather than pvp. also, running around for 2 hours and finding no pvp would suck.

i can't imagine a fun pvp server if /anon worked to conceal location.

Because no one is smart enough to run to the popular raid zones and do a /who in zone to see who is there, right? Or do a /guidstatus to see what guild they are in?

Use your head.

[Envious]

yes. we take it for granted on vztz that we had the ability to /who.. and it should be this way on R99 as well. it lets ppl check on the opposing guilds and see if they are gearing up or already on a raid, in which case you gather the troops and roll out. without /who, ppl would be twiddling their thumbs while others raided, and spawn times would be largely unknown.. the game would be about ninjaing mobs rather than pvp. also, running around for 2 hours and finding no pvp would suck.

i can't imagine a fun pvp server if /anon worked to conceal location.

This doesnt sound classic. At all.

2 friends and I leveled a DE warrior named Tueful to 55... then deleveled him to 20. Back in the day, you kept your skills when you de-leveled.

So then, 2x jade mace + fungi + full crafted + full resist gear + Crushbone = Fun.

4x20 + Kick > Lvl 15 Newbies

[Envious]

Actually, now that I think about it, Tueful prolly hit harder than 20. Dont remember what a jade mace lands for with the dmg cap off at lvl 20, but either way, he would bring a newbie down in 2 rounds max.

Was glorious.

[Darwoth]

well you can pretty much already do what i describe if you know the coded name of the zone, example city of mist is "citymist" /who all city or citymist will reveal who is in the zone even if your twiddling your thumbs in permafrost somewhere, eastern commons is "ecommons" etc.

only some zones are unable to be whoed in this way or if there is a guild with a similar name as the zone they will come up in the result.

tweaking or removing the anon feature would just make it easier to do, mostly for the lazy/retarded so maybe it isn't a good idea in actuality, isn't classic either i suppose.

[wehrmacht]

I never had problems finding pvp on SZ till PoP came out(in old world zones).

I found people to fight on Sullon Zek 10x easier during PoP than during Velious.

yes. we take it for granted on vztz that we had the ability to /who.. and it should be this way on R99 as well.

Horrible idea. Removing the element of surprise and giving everyone in the game GM ability /who makes PvP worse. You never have to say "Darn I hope guild xxxxxxx doesn't zone in and attack us while we're doing Trak". It turns into "Ok guys, guild xxxxxx is zoning into Sebillis in 34.1 seconds, everyone stand here and attack as they zone in".

Really? So... all the dungeons were empty? No newts/goods AT ALL were leveling?

That's pretty much exactly how SZ was close to the end of Velious. Nobody from the good or neut team ever dared venture into Sebillis. Never saw any neuts or goods attempt to xp in Karnors either.

Only dungeon you could find neuts was Velk's lab and the goods were either hiding in some obscure spot of City of Mist or out in the middle of nowhere in some outdoors zone. So yea, even with 1000+ people online, PvP was almost impossible to find because there were just too many big outdoors zones you could hide out in and do high level xp in such as burning woods, wakening lands, cobalt scar, emerald jungle, trak's teeth. If you didn't play a porting class you're gonna be walking for hours looking for where these people are hiding.

Even if you spend hours running from middle of nowhere XP hiding spot to the next, when you finally find someone in a place like City of Mist, if they don't have a 70%+ chance of beating you, they're all just gonna gate before you actually get to them. So now you just spent like 4 hours searching through zones in 3 different continents for nothing.

Unless you plan on having 2000 people online, adding more zones to Kunark is just a bad idea since Kunark is about the maxmium number of zones a PvP can handle in the first place. This is why I say integrating content past Kunark into older zones would probably be better.

[Knuckle]

I do admit the idea of merged zones intrigues me. Guk portal leading to sebilis instead of outside innothule, for example, provided you have your sebilis key quest.

However, this idea will never come into place, because then the server becomes 'custom'. I see the advantages, and players would love it, but it would scare people off before it could ever happen.

[Darwoth]

dont think it really matters much atm since it will likely be a year+ after server launch before velious is even added, worry about it then imo when there is a better overview how it would effect the server based on how big the population is at that time.

i wouldnt even consider adding velious unless the server pop was at least over 500 during primetime and since we do not even have a server nor an eta of one that is a long way off.

[mimixownzall]

I found people to fight on Sullon Zek 10x easier during PoP than during Velious.

That's pretty much exactly how SZ was close to the end of Velious. Nobody from the good or neut team ever dared venture into Sebillis. Never saw any neuts or goods attempt to xp in Karnors either.

Only dungeon you could find neuts was Velk's lab and the goods were either hiding in some obscure spot of City of Mist or out in the middle of nowhere in some outdoors zone. So yea, even with 1000+ people online, PvP was almost impossible to find because there were just too many big outdoors zones you could hide out in and do high level xp in such as burning woods, wakening lands, cobalt scar, emerald jungle, trak's teeth. If you didn't play a porting class you're gonna be walking for hours looking for where these people are hiding.

Even if you spend hours running from middle of nowhere XP hiding spot to the next, when you finally find someone in a place like City of Mist, if they don't have a 70%+ chance of beating you, they're all just gonna gate before you actually get to them. So now you just spent like 4 hours searching through zones in 3 different continents for nothing.

Unless you plan on having 2000 people online, adding more zones to Kunark is just a bad idea since Kunark is about the maxmium number of zones a PvP can handle in the first place. This is why I say integrating content past Kunark into older zones would probably be better.

Some of the shit you spew makes me wonder if you really did ever play on SZ. I'm thinking you are just trying to re-hash shit you read years before or are getting info from some scrub who did play there.

If it was so damn hard to find people to pvp, then how did evils - the highest populated team on the server, thus should have the hardest time finding people to kill - constantly lead in points with multiple kills a day? I played up to PoP and never had trouble finding fights; I didn't win them all, but I still had no trouble finding fights.

And when you're dealing with teams, it is war. War is more than just killing and getting credit. If I cleared out a zone but didn't any kills, I still counted it a success. That is one negative on the point system. You shouldn't need an incentive to PvP, otherwise go join p99. It encourages one on one pvp and people will be more apt to flee than stay and fight. I think we can all agree that mass pvp is more fun.

[Doors]

The only thing I'll agree with is removing the /who command. Shits gay imo, if the server pop is high enough, shouldn't have this in.

Also anything mimixownsall writes I just end up not reading because I can't stop starring at his sig.

[Lasher]

I love the /who command but it can be a curse and a blessing. I have had people log out on me while i was in enroute to them. Hopefully the server has enough pop and it wont be a problem

[Macken]

wormoct never played on SZ.

Thats a FACT.

If he actually did play on VZ or RZ or TZ, he was only there long enough to poop sock straight to 60, then quit 2 weeks later when everyone else reached 50+.

He says so himself.

If you listen to wormoct about anything, then you will get your just desserts.

[wehrmacht]

Some of the shit you spew makes me wonder if you really did ever play on SZ. I'm thinking you are just trying to re-hash shit you read years before or are getting info from some scrub who did play there.

I was an iksar monk named Fraud in <Ruin>, who were you? High level PvP was usually non-existant. Neuts and goods didn't put up a fight. It was like fighting against retarded people swinging at you with soggy hotdogs.

Grunter would scurry off into the shadows while yelling "CLEARLY A DARKENBANE VICTORY" while accusing everyone of hacking while running 12 copies of SEQ on his computer.

You were probably some low level that never dinged 60 before Luclin came out which is why you think PvP was plentiful. There's always some level 8, lowbies roaming around east commons or something to fight.

[Giovanni]

I was an iksar monk named Fraud in <Ruin>, who were you? High level PvP was usually non-existant. Neuts and goods didn't put up a fight. It was like fighting against retarded people swinging at you with soggy hotdogs.

Grunter would scurry off into the shadows while yelling "CLEARLY A DARKENBANE VICTORY" while accusing everyone of hacking while running 12 copies of SEQ on his computer.

You were probably some low level that never dinged 60 before Luclin came out which is why you think PvP was plentiful. There's always some level 8, lowbies roaming around east commons or something to fight.


So, you rolled evil team along with 70% of the population and then complain about the lack of pvp? Not everyone was a sebilis project that got a free ride to 60.

[Macken]

http://www.vexthal.com/wehrmachtlol.gif

[Sythyst]

doors, god by reading your shit signature, i want to punch you, though you may be a hippy, have some respect for the founding fathers

I can't tell if the above comment is sarcasm or stupidity. Doors sig is now my Windows background. Thanks Doors, if you did that comic, mad props. I bet GW and Franklin would have a good laugh at it.

Also, you might like this: http://www.umw.edu/news/?a=1157

I went to this college, and while I still lived in the area the above article was published. It definitely lends legitimacy to your sig.

[mimixownzall]

I was an iksar monk named Fraud in <Ruin>, who were you? High level PvP was usually non-existant. Neuts and goods didn't put up a fight. It was like fighting against retarded people swinging at you with soggy hotdogs.

Grunter would scurry off into the shadows while yelling "CLEARLY A DARKENBANE VICTORY" while accusing everyone of hacking while running 12 copies of SEQ on his computer.

You were probably some low level that never dinged 60 before Luclin came out which is why you think PvP was plentiful. There's always some level 8, lowbies roaming around east commons or something to fight.

Actually I was Lodran Ironwang. Mage on SZ in Ruin, Hate.

[wehrmacht]

Actually I was Lodran Ironwang. Mage on SZ in Ruin, Hate.

Don't remember any INT casters in Ruin except for Kirban, Valarkin, Kronar, Nizzar, and the Russian mage that's name started with an A, Atla or something. Pretty sure I remember someone named Lodran in Hate, are you sure you were in Ruin? rofl

[Foxx]

wormak ur the only one with "questionable" credentials here

[wehrmacht]

wormak ur the only one with "questionable" credentials here

Plz, no more Heresy whines

[Foxx]

Plz, no more Heresy whines

im not heresy, pal.

try again

[wehrmacht]

im not heresy, pal.

try again

Nobody seems to know who the hell Foxx is:

"I'll pay someone to lvl for me pal. Whose Foxx?

Are you a pal or enemy?" - Littlegyno

[Crenshinabon]

I played on RZ and had the most fun of my PvP life. I played off and on for about four years classic through GoD. PoP is when a HUGE drop in pvp happened due to safe zones and instant ports to anywhere. I hated PoP and yearn for a EQpvp server pre PoP.

RZ I had no problem finding pvp, anyone and everyone was an enemy and there were basically no deserted zones. I remember during Velious era I had a pk enchanter who constantly killed people in HighKeep which had 20+ people at all times still even being a classic zone.

I never played on SZ but I would hate not being able to pvp anyone. RZ FFA 1 item loot 4 lvl difference pvp was king.

Also I noticed a decrease in pvp near Luclin era a bit due to every fkin item in the game being no drop. No drop killed item loot. and PoP safe zones / teleporting killed RZ pvp.

[Sythyst]

I played on RZ and had the most fun of my PvP life. I played off and on for about four years classic through GoD. PoP is when a HUGE drop in pvp happened due to safe zones and instant ports to anywhere. I hated PoP and yearn for a EQpvp server pre PoP.

RZ I had no problem finding pvp, anyone and everyone was an enemy and there were basically no deserted zones. I remember during Velious era I had a pk enchanter who constantly killed people in HighKeep which had 20+ people at all times still even being a classic zone.

I never played on SZ but I would hate not being able to pvp anyone. RZ FFA 1 item loot 4 lvl difference pvp was king.

Also I noticed a decrease in pvp near Luclin era a bit due to every fkin item in the game being no drop. No drop killed item loot. and PoP safe zones / teleporting killed RZ pvp.

Hey Cren, what was your character's name? If you were on RZ during classic, we may have battled.

[Crenshinabon]

Had a couple characters.
Classic I had a SK named Zeratulo I got to 50. (was obsessed with starcraft lol)
Then in Kunark through Luclin I made Enc named Confuzion who I got to 60 and I pvped most on.

I also played a bard for about a year during PoP and GoD named Katze that a friend gave me who was already 65 and got some good pvp in here also although I did not like it as much due to people zoning into PoT whenever they were in danger.

[Haul]

I played on RZ and had the most fun of my PvP life. I played off and on for about four years classic through GoD. PoP is when a HUGE drop in pvp happened due to safe zones and instant ports to anywhere. I hated PoP and yearn for a EQpvp server pre PoP.

RZ I had no problem finding pvp, anyone and everyone was an enemy and there were basically no deserted zones. I remember during Velious era I had a pk enchanter who constantly killed people in HighKeep which had 20+ people at all times still even being a classic zone.

I never played on SZ but I would hate not being able to pvp anyone. RZ FFA 1 item loot 4 lvl difference pvp was king.

Also I noticed a decrease in pvp near Luclin era a bit due to every fkin item in the game being no drop. No drop killed item loot. and PoP safe zones / teleporting killed RZ pvp.

good post, reppin that rz

[Haul]

I voted for the wrong one. Wehrmacht, I cannot understand the way you phrase things sometimes.

[Jigga]

its skewed

[wehrmacht]

I voted for the wrong one. Wehrmacht, I cannot understand the way you phrase things sometimes.

I will use ebonics next time

[naez]

thank you

[stormlord]

I found people to fight on Sullon Zek 10x easier during PoP than during Velious.



Horrible idea. Removing the element of surprise and giving everyone in the game GM ability /who makes PvP worse. You never have to say "Darn I hope guild xxxxxxx doesn't zone in and attack us while we're doing Trak". It turns into "Ok guys, guild xxxxxx is zoning into Sebillis in 34.1 seconds, everyone stand here and attack as they zone in".



That's pretty much exactly how SZ was close to the end of Velious. Nobody from the good or neut team ever dared venture into Sebillis. Never saw any neuts or goods attempt to xp in Karnors either.

Only dungeon you could find neuts was Velk's lab and the goods were either hiding in some obscure spot of City of Mist or out in the middle of nowhere in some outdoors zone. So yea, even with 1000+ people online, PvP was almost impossible to find because there were just too many big outdoors zones you could hide out in and do high level xp in such as burning woods, wakening lands, cobalt scar, emerald jungle, trak's teeth. If you didn't play a porting class you're gonna be walking for hours looking for where these people are hiding.

Even if you spend hours running from middle of nowhere XP hiding spot to the next, when you finally find someone in a place like City of Mist, if they don't have a 70%+ chance of beating you, they're all just gonna gate before you actually get to them. So now you just spent like 4 hours searching through zones in 3 different continents for nothing.

Unless you plan on having 2000 people online, adding more zones to Kunark is just a bad idea since Kunark is about the maxmium number of zones a PvP can handle in the first place. This is why I say integrating content past Kunark into older zones would probably be better.

What has always baffled me about pvpers is how they want to take away things that encourage PvE players to come to the server. I played on Sullon Zek and loved the challenge, but not everybody did. I played on SZ primarily for the PvE. Most players are PvE. So I think I'm part of the majority, mostly. But I'm very hardcore and like my game to be hard so in that sense I'm part of a minority that's a subpopulation of the majority.

Anyway, if you take away all those zones that spread out people then you take away options. With no options a PvE player is a sitting duck waiting to be killed. That's when they leave the server and you guys rape each other because your population left. What makes this even less reasonable is the fact that Sullon Zek was already too hard for most. Heck, Rallos Zek was too hard! Since most players are PvE then it stands to reason that any amount of open PvP, 4 or 6 level limit or no limit at all, is discouraging for most players out there!

No matter what you do on a pvp server you're going to have a limited population unless you have a game that can appeal to PvE players without compromising their fun. If PvE players can choose not to participate in the PvP or they have an equal chance at competing regardless of how well geared another player is (or how much they play) then population will be strong.

Anyway, what I'm saying is that if you make it easier for people to PvP then you're not going to tap into the PvE players out there. A PvP-centered mmorpg is a niche at the present time. Leaning in the PvP direction will have a dramatic impact on your population. You do that at your own peril.

If you make pvp fair for all participants, regardless of time played or gear, and players can choose to avoid pvp, then you will be able to succeed in an optimal manner. Alternatively, if you just simply lean in the PvE direction then you can pull more of them in. For example, by giving PvE players more options to avoid PvP. Instances were the crown jewel to avoid PvP. Large numerous zones is another way - although less effective than instances - to avoid PvP. The difference is that instances completely remove PvP while large numerous zones just reduce it and give PvE players more warning - like to /camp or track or gate or port or etc.

In the years that I was playing on Sullon Zek I usually only went to zones I had a deep knowledge of. This allowed me to escape PvP in a lot of cases by exploiting this knowledge. I also could track them so I knew when things were bad. Quite a few times I didn't even need to camp. It was a skill all by itself knowing how to avoid PvP. You would go to ANY zone in the game even if the gear was obsolete. That's why on SZ everything was so expensive. Items didn't mudflate as fast on that server. And even if PvPers owned the latest expansions or the best items, it didn't matter, if they couldn't catch you! That was another reason I liked it.

The worst pvpers were the MQR's that cheated because they wanted PvP so bad. But make no mistake, I fed off the challenge. I liked the atmosphere. I look or desire for hardcore stuff like that even now.

And yes I got killed probably several dozen times. I killed maybe a dozen in my whole career. There's nothing like being a noob in blackburrow and a level 25 comes in (nancy or someone - in 2001-02) and kill you over and over whenever they get the chance. AFter a while, if you talk to em (don't be an ass), they might leave you alone. But anyway it was in those beginning stages that I started to thrive on the challenge.

The most evil thing I ever did was snare a noob in the commonlands. You really learned on SZ quickly whether you were truly meanspirited or not. You also learn who is your friend and who is just using you for kicks.

[Cfullard]

If by PvP you mean cross faction healing (immortal healing) jackrabbits who couldn't solo without a pocket healer to save their lives? Then the PvP dropped off about... kunark... Sullon Zek died about a month after it opened because people got sick of it all being so damn one sided. Sony put absolutely no thought into spawn locations or the fact you could lose faction with your own freaking race due to spawn points being right on top of one another for all sides. The reward system was stupid and it wasn't item loot.

Everquest PvP went to hell in a hand basket about the same time they decided to take item loot out of the game. But prior to that it wasn't much better because it was a caster game where melee's got roflstomped.

/thread

[Pudge]

i guess i change my mind.. if you are able to /who a zone and see who is in it, or even just how many ppl are there, then it could still prevent the problem of ninja-raiding without any pvp.

you just wont be able to hunt specific targets or follow a group around when they port away with their druid :( i really liked porting around like that, actually i had more fun trying to escape than chasing

i guess /anon is better for the PvE aspect/ppl