Boxing

[Haynar]

Is there ever going to changes to allow boxing up to 2 characters?

Classic for me, was playing 2 chars, SK / Shaman. I liked going off and doing my own thing. I liked to see what I could do by myself. I liked to raid on the SK, but when it was my own time, I liked to go off and do other stuff. I did not like to be dependent on groups. If I had 30 minutes to play, I could log in and be killing stuff right away.

This may be classic to a lot of people, but not for me. There are plenty with the "so called wife" playing the other characters going on. It is pretty easy to see that this isn't always the case though. Yes, the wife may play the char some of the time, but not always.

I think allowing up to 2 characters per IP address should be proposed.

No exceptions beyond 2 characters per IP address. None. Ever. Period.

This will take away the time wasted on "making sure exemptions arent boxing". No more time to process special cases where "the wife wants to play too". Etc. I think the time policing boxing, exemptions, etc., can be better utilized to improve the server.

Haynar

[Deathrydar]

No one wants boxing. It was discussed at great length before launch and the results were in the favor of those opposed to it. Of course, who am I, but a Dev will inform you. We don't want boxing here.

[Danth]

I normally consider myself indifferent on the subject of boxing. I don't do it, don't find it fun, and wouldn't do it even if it were allowed. That said, a comment I read on another forum says a lot. to paraphrase:

You might like your SK/Shaman setup, but the now-superflous Shaman player who doesn't get a group invite due to that certainly won't like it much.

Danth

[Deathrydar]

You might like your SK/Shaman setup, but the now-superflous Shaman player who doesn't get a group invite due to that certainly won't like it much.

This is one of the many reasons the community here came together and spoke out with a strong voice in making boxing illegal.

[Throttle]

No one wants boxing. It was discussed at great length before launch and the results were in the favor of those opposed to it. Of course, who am I, but a Dev will inform you. We don't want boxing here.


Heh.

I don't play here, but I decided to check out the forums and I simply had to register and respond to this.

There was an official boxing poll on the beta forums where nilbog asked for our opinions. More votes were given to allow two-boxing than not, but since he had said from the beginning that it would ultimately be his decision and that he only wanted to know how people felt, it didn't matter. This was fair enough, if a somewhat unorthodox choice of management. Not all current players were around at the time to vote, I'm sure.

There were long discussions concerning the matter of whether or not to allow two-boxing. Everyone weighed in and contributed with their opinions. The vast majority of these opinions can be summed up in two categories with the range of reasons:

Anti-boxers: We don't want others to have an advantage. We don't want to risk a lower chance of getting loot. It doesn't feel classic. It's not how we remember it. Boxers won't group with other people. Boxers are selfish, anti-social players.

Pro-boxers: No emulated server will come close to any Live population. No emulated server's playerbase can sufficiently fill out the game world. Off-peak play will be severely compromised. We can't play for five hours at a time like we could 10 years ago. Non-boxing will heavily affect class choices. Non-boxing will prevent a Live-like raid environment.

The general theme of these discussions was that anti-boxing players raised concerns for their own favor and benefit, and pro-boxing players addressed likely issues for the server. There was a blatantly obvious disparity in the tone, rationality and altriusm (for lack of better word) between the two groups. Well-written and thoughtful posts were responded to with almost vulgar selfishness in some cases as certain players were more concerned with their chances at getting loot or being able to charge for services than with the potential success of the server.

I played sporadically for the first few days after the server launched just to take a look, and I occasionally glance at the online tally out of sheer curiosity just as I still visit the forums of games that I haven't played for years. It was pleasantly active at the time, but despite the fact that everyone save for a handful of magicians were in the same level range for the first week, groups were still not autmoatic and half the dungeons within that level range were still empty most of the time. The game was playable, but I don't think one could reasonably claim that the game world was filled out. I had next to no instances of being unable to find a group due to the groups being full or the zone overcamped, but I had my fair share of simply not finding anyone willing to group, or lacking a healer for hours at a time. As predicted, some classes were grotesquely over-represented and others barely present.

My estimate at the time of the above-mentioned discussions was that the server would need an absolute bare minimum of 100 players online at any given time to be maginally playable as this was approximately the amount of players needed to supply one full group per five level increments as well as the inevitable crowd of soloers, socializers, tradeskillers and other players who have no direct influence on the activity of the grouping scene. 130 are online right now, probably a chunk more during peak and a chunk less in a few hours when the actual off-peak shift begins. For the server to meet my criteria of thriving and Live-like to the point where the fact that it is an emulated niche server is not thrust in your face in all elements of gameplay, it would need 4-500 online at a time.

I'm happy that the server is doing well, and as I told nilbog before the launch, I congratulate him on his results even though I strongly disagree with a few key aspects. We simply have different views of what the desired outcome is, and those in charge of the server evidently feel that rudimentarily playable server is worth more than the controversies of two-boxing. I would have played on a server where groups are available at all times to anyone and class flexibility is much more forgiving, but that's that.

What I wanted to arrive at is the fact that no, boxing was not "voted against" or "strongly opposed" or anything of the sort. The matter had simply been decided upon by those with the authority to decide and thus the efforts of the players were futile. It was nevertheless interesting to see such an impressive difference in the general mentality of the pro- and anti-boxing players, and amusing enough to see some of them taking the launch day population as a basis for such reactionist quotes as: "lol and those retards wanted boxing".

edit
You might like your SK/Shaman setup, but the now-superflous Shaman player who doesn't get a group invite due to that certainly won't like it much.

Assuming that the player in question does not have a group readily accessible at most times, which one can guess is usually the reason for people wanting to two-box, two possible scenarios can exist:

1: The shadowknight is alone. He can't play the game as he wants to play it. He can't do much of anything (unless he rolls a magician) and he probably spends most of his time trying to kill low blues with varying success, crafting things noone really wants, exploring on his own, hailing random mobs, looking up quests he might be able to do and so on. If there were always shamans around to accompany the shadowknights of the world, few would bring up such concerns.

2: The shadowknight is allowed to two-box. He can play the game the way he wants to, he can level up and enjoy the majority of the game's content. He can craft, explore or quest with greater success than he could alone. If he did not want to two-box, he wouldn't have to. If the hypothetical superfluous shaman exists, the former player can choose to group with him or he can choose not to. If he does, noone is compromised; if he does not, the latter player still better off than scenario 1 because they can choose to two-box as well.

In all my years playing and two-boxing Everquest, of all the boxers I've known, there has been a tiny, inconsequential fraction of them who staunchly refused to group with others. They are also the players who, if not allowed to two-box, are soloing in some remote corner of the world in the company of their fire pet, or not playing at all. The rest of us just enjoy the game more when playing two characters, whether because we don't have to spend so much time doing nothing, or because the primitive nature of Everquest's classes simply does not entertain us in singularum.

[Tantalar]

Being a ranger, im probably the worst class to Duo with... but I can still keep myself busy on offpeak times. its 6am eastern time now, fro about 6-8 its often tough to group only because im not a healer and healer classes are more rare than non healer classes. That being said, if I was a healing class, I would still be able to group even on the least popular time of play. If you are can ONLY log on at 6am eastern time and you must log off before 8am eastern time, then that is HORRIBLY unlucky for you. I find it hard to believe that you can only play in this exact 2 hour window, since all other times you can definitely find a group. If that truly is the case, then you are very unlucky

If you are waiting to for the population then ok wait for it (its around 300 peak from what I hear now) so that means it is still going up. Most people play mage or enchanter so that they can play a godlike class and level very easily. People dont want to play SK because well, hybrid exp penalty + Evil race/diety is a really really tough combo to have in this game... I play the weakest class in the game and even I can solo if I have to until I can find a group. Not a whole lot of people want to play a class like Ranger though, because you are pretty powerless. Most people just want to dominate and level quickly to get to the top just look at how many high level characters there are. They did it all without 2 boxing.

I also need to mention this. Look at how fast we have progressed already without 2 boxing! Had we allowed it... youd have riots over on the forums because 60% of the server would be level 50 with max gear, maxed tradeskills, and 3 alts each! As it is now (to my knowledge) nobody has even attempted Phinny/Vox/Nagafen... As it was mentioned before, 2 boxing has helped to restrict the power. You don't think that they would have done this already if they had 40 random level 45+ instead of 20? I do, especially if half of them had a pocket cleric to go along with their maximized character selection...

The poll was "Do you want to allow boxing on this server?" and "Do you want to allow boxing now?" Pollsters make hundreds of thousands of dollars depending on how they mix words to make people pick a choice...

"Do you like to eat meat that was ground up and injected with carbon monoxide and sat in the meat case at the grocery store rotting and outdated, but looking fresh because it was chemically treated for a week?" Or "Would you like to eat a fresh organic salad topped with blue cheese dressing""

"would you like a delicious thick meaty cheeseburger with applewood smoked bacon?" "Would you like some slimy salad with blue cheese dressing on it to mask the taste and cover the appearance of the lettuce?

Its all about how it is asked and what options are given...

Originally it was cut and dry 1 or the other with no mention of changing it if need be

We had a second poll...
1 player per person always and forever 19%
2 players per person always and forever 14%
1 player per person, but can change to 2 over time if need be 61%
2 players per person, but can change to 1 over time if need be 4%

And I thought id also include that after the first week, the poll was over 80% in favor of 1 player per person, but can change to 2 over time if need be. After that, people stopped voting for it because they were like "Yeah this is obviously the best and most popular option" So that is the option that we chose to go with.

And I'm not Anti boxing, I'm PRO 1 character only.

[Goobles]

To add my 2cp:

I'm not interested in putting myself on hold while I level a shaman 34 levels to catch up to me. No thx.

[Jify]

Being a ranger, im probably the worst class to Duo with...

Still <3 you Tant

[Nytewind TP]

Boxing isn't allowed, devs have made this clear. Live with it.

[FatMagic]

I like the no boxing rule for the sake of exactly what Tal was saying... we've had tons of level capped people, and grouping would drop to nothing - because everyone has a boxed toon!

Please keep it this way!

[President]

Initially when I found the server I spent 20 minutes trying to log in two chars at a time until someone told me I couldn't.

I have 2-3 box'd on every EQemu server, and even back in EQ I would duo or trio sometimes.



I am sooooo happy this server does not allow boxing. I have had more fun playing 1 character than any time I ever played two or more on the other EMU servers.


For those complaining about not getting a group, you obviously aren't trying. I have found a group or duo/trio partners within 30 minutes of logging in every time since I started, and I'm a warrior.


I could see boxing getting allowed further down the line for the server, but at this point it does not even seem necessary.


Also - Interesting point - I don't remember being able to box until the very least past Kunark. It wasn't possibly until EQWindows came out.. right?

[President]

http://wadeb.com/eq/

EQWindow wasn't done until December of 2000. So, if we wanted to stay with "Classic" not boxing until then.

[Kreigore]

Throttle's post sums it up nicely.

That being said, I believe two-boxing will be needed at some point and I would support it.

At this point, I haven't had a huge problem finding a group as a level 16 Shadow Knight, but my solo ability is limited due to fear kiting issues. Mob run speed is a bit tweaked and it has been said that it is unlikely to be fixed.

[President]

as a level 16 Shadow Knight, but my solo ability is limited due to fear kiting issues.

Ive watched lots of SK's kiting. Not to say you don't have a complaint (xp penalty kind of sucks) but try being a rogue/warrior/ranger/monk/paladin right now.

[Reiker]

I've boxed for most of my EQ career, either it being my own characters or logging in an extra cleric on a raid. First of all, boxing isn't "anti-classic"... people were boxing from day 1 on multiple computers. EQWindows isn't exactly an important factor here.

I think anyone who truly believes boxing will have some sort of negative effect on the server is a bit delusional. There's never been one time where I felt "oh gee, I'm boxing a shaman and a monk... I can't do whatever I want, I'm INVINCIBLE!" Rather... I frequently grouped with my main (shaman) or both chars. Yes, boxing makes holding down camps like frenzy by yourself a bit easier; but first of all it's not exactly free loot for boxers, as the difficulty of the game increases tenfold, and EQ is a pretty difficult game to start with. I know there's many people here who start to develop a headache just thinking of leveling and gearing 2 individual chars to 50... we're talking double the exp loss, double the horrible CRs, etc. Second of all, I've never heard of anyone ever not joining their friends just because they could box something themselves. 2 people does not a great group make. Being able to box 2 toons just gives you a headstart when trying to get a group started.

Low population servers (read: any emulated EQ server and even the live EQ servers) require boxing to truly be well-rounded gaming experiences. I'm not saying this server is horrible because boxing isn't allowed, its the best eqemu server out there and the only server that disallows boxing. I'm just saying that if boxing was allowed, myself and many others would be playing with a renewed fervor.

The only server that offers a legitimate, difficult, classicesque experience is Shards of Dalaya. They even share the same sentiments towards boxing, but the difference is they realize that they're only hurting their own efforts by disallowing boxing. If they were to remove boxing tomorrow, the entire server would probably fall apart, and Project 1999 is only a notch more successful right now.

[Derazor]

I had different opinions on this. At first, I think the idea of not boxing was pretty neat.

Having played for awhile and seeing into the future of the server, I would definitely condone boxing and support its use. Defeating Kunark and Velious content will make it nearly a neccessity, and it would definitely be nice to able to box through these droughts of LFG time. I thought I had a fairly high play time as is and im only level 17 - I play during the week after work for a few hours a night. The population we have is now stretched over a great deal of level ranges.

I vote to box.

[President]

Second of all, I've never heard of anyone ever not joining their friends just because they could box something themselves. 2 people does not a great group make.

Really? Because I run into Magi's & Necro's every day who would rather solo than group. What makes you think it would be any different if people were boxxing?


And ya.. tarded two computers.. guess eqwindows doesn't make a difference!


Strangely though, you guys say tons of people two box'd from day 1. I literally cannot think of a single instance I ran into someone actively playing two chars at the same time before Velious. Ya, maybe your buddies/guildies box'd, but more pop on the server than not? Don't think so.

Personally I'm having a blast playing 1 char at a time, and the server has hit over 300 people online at once. I would be pretty impressed if the hardware could handle over 500, and personally, id rather see us fill up 500 single player chars, then use our current population and kill the server hardware with boxing.

Really, I probably wouldn't continue playing if boxing was allowed at this point, though, I could see it later in the game.

[Reiker]

Well I've yet to ever see a soloing mage/necro turn down a group invite, and I've grouped with my own mage just because flat out the exp is better. But of course ymmv.

Also, I'm not sure what this server is running, but I'm pretty sure I remember hearing that it could handle 500 simultaneous players without a hitch. Correct me if I'm wrong.

[Cribanox]

You could always two box, with two computers. (I used to)

[Kreigore]

Ive watched lots of SK's kiting. Not to say you don't have a complaint (xp penalty kind of sucks) but try being a rogue/warrior/ranger/monk/paladin right now.

I doubt a lot of them were "fear kiting" as we used to know it as SKs. Typically, it would go something like this: snare, dot and fear a mob and the SK would melee it while it was snared/feared. The mobs are much too fast here.

I've kited mobs too, but not as I used to. More or less, I have SOW and I'll snare/dot to get aggro and have my pet slowly melee it to death. As I run around, lifetapping and finish it off while meleeing.

[Danth]

As I said earlier, I do not oppose boxing--but neither do I support it.

I've seen posters make an argument that boxing becomes necessary when the population is such that players can't find groups. Perhaps that's true. Right now--today--players who want groups can find them. I have yet to go LFG for so much as half an hour without being able to join or build some sort of group. However, this comes with a caveat--I'm trapped on the 'default leveling path' for grouping. If I want to roam off the beaten path, I either bring my own group or don't go at all. As such, the current population may be rated as 'enough', but just barely.

On the other hand, there exist entire deserted dungeons (permafrost, anyone?) where boxers could roam to their heart's content without ever encountering another living soul. That may even benefit the community by making items from those dungeons more readily available on the market. In that scenario I must rate boxing as entirely harmless.

As I said in my earlier post, I don't operate multiple characters, don't find it fun, and don't really see the appeal in it. Most particularly, outside of specific situations (boxed guild clerics) I don't see why someone would multi-box *unless* he intends to primarily solo. That's fine, of course; but let's call a duck a duck, shall we?

Frankly, I prefer that boxers solo. They don't bother me, live and let live, but I don't particularly care for having boxers in my groups. Why? They make lousy group mates. The boxed characters don't talk, don't react quickly to complex situations, and generally act like the half-attended robots they are. A group harboring several such characters makes for a dull evening.

In short, while I don't oppose boxing out of hand, I've not seen a great argument in favor of permitting it at the present time, either.

Danth

[Kreigore]

I would be hard pressed to say we'd reach 500 players, but it could happen.

If we had a solid 500+ non-boxed characters on for approximately 18 hours out of the day, would we need two-boxing? Maybe not.

As it stands right now, raids and high end content will be very interesting - unless there's a fair amount of community cooperation.

Oh well, only time will tell I guess. :)

[Yoite]

I look forward to the community coperation for big events and raids.

[President]

I would be hard pressed to say we'd reach 500 players, but it could happen.

It feels like just two weeks ago we were hovering at 200-240 Online and last night I saw 300. Thats a pretty decent increase. I think if the word continues to spread we could definitely see 500.

[Reiker]

Eventually once super difficult raid encounters start becoming plentiful (culminating with avatar of war), the devs are going to have to decide between artifically nerfing the power of these encounters and thus making them unlike their original inception, or allow two boxing.

[Danth]

There's option 3, too: Take the EQMac approach. If players can't roster sufficient numbers to defeat an encounter, then said encounter doesn't get beaten.

Danth

[Throttle]

Well, here is how I would apply logic to the matter.

Boxing was possible on Live. It wasn't common at all in the beginning and few had the means to do it, let alone considered the possibility, but that is irrelevant for the purpose of this discussion. What is relevant is that at some point well before EQ was considered a dying game not worth playing, some people boxed. Once computer technology started to develop at the insane rate that it did in the early 2000s, two-boxing became a possibility for just about anyone, and it was common knowledge that some people did this. It was no longer a case of most people not knowing it was possible or not being able to run two instances of the game, and I would venture to claim that there was very few people who wanted to box but could not do it due to the monthly fee. In other words, almost anyone who wanted to box could do so.

The prevalence of boxing grew as the game started to lose players. From expansion to expansion, more and more players started boxing two or more characters. It was directly proportional to the size of the playerbase, and when the playerbase was so healthy that noone had to box due to population-related limitations, very few did so. Once that was no longer the case, more and more players did.

For all intents and purposes, an emulated server is the exact same thing as a Live server where the playerbase has dwindled to whatever size the emu server is. If a Live server has a population that fluctuates between 100 and 300 players throughout the day, you will find a lot of players boxing because they see it as a necessity. When there are three or four clerics online within your level range in the entire game, the gameplay must necessarily be different from what one would find on a server with 5000 players.

People will want to two-box when it becomes necessary. When it isn't, few will do it. There was a time when it wasn't necessary, and few did it. It then became necessary, and more people did it. This is a fairly rudimentary level of logic: if this server's gameplay environment was such that noone felt the need to two-box, few would do it. If it was allowed, the frequency of boxers would be directly proportional to the amount of players, and in the unlikely but theoretically relevant case that the server grew to the size of a Live server in the early 2000s, one could reasonably assume that the prevalence of boxing would diminish to the level that it was on such a Live server. Perhaps slightly more common since this is free to play after all, but with a lesser impact on the game as noone would be able to box three or more characters like they could on Live.

In other words, if Project 1999 allowed two-boxing it would be exactly as common as the game warrants it, no more and no less.

Addendum:
Before you step up to dispute the proposition of two-boxing, take a moment to consider a few things. Do you disagree because of some personal perception of how the game should be? In past experience, has boxing proved to be such an obstacle to your enjoyment of a server that you would disallow at the expense of the players to whom it is a necessity? Is your personal preference more impotant than those players whose gameplay is compromised by this rule? There are some, like me, who do not play on this server because two-boxing is not allowed. Is that better than the alternative?

Someone (Tantalar) once said that two-boxing players were infringing on his gameplay. I say that there can be no greater infringement than excluding potential players, or compromising the gameplay of existing players, by disallowing them the means that make the game playable for them. His statement may have been valid if we were discussing whether or not to place an epic weapon vending machine in each city for those who couldn't bother doing the quest, but since boxing was entirely possible and not that uncommon on Live, and has been a staple feature and proven necessity throughout EQEmu history, I would argue that a different reasoning is necessary.

[President]

In other words, if Project 1999 allowed two-boxing it would be exactly as common as the game warrants it, no more and no less.

Untrue - I am happy to not two box right now, but if it was allowed, enough people on the server would be doing it(and getting a leg up) that I would have to also.. Or just not play on this server.



Addendum:
Before you step up to dispute the proposition of two-boxing, take a moment to consider a few things. Do you disagree because of some personal perception of how the game should be? In past experience, has boxing proved to be such an obstacle to your enjoyment of a server that you would disallow at the expense of the players to whom it is a necessity?

Yes, actually. On PEQ my buddy and I ended up quitting around the time we got to Sebilis because of pathing issues (which are prevalent on every EMU server in dungeons like that) as it was nearly impossible to get through it using multi box characters, and since everyone multi box'd, no one was around to join our group leaving us with a 4 man team heading through Sebilis. One person playing one character is better than one person playing two characters, no matter how "bad ass" you think you are.

Is your personal preference more impotant than those players whose gameplay is compromised by this rule? There are some, like me, who do not play on this server because two-boxing is not allowed. Is that better than the alternative?

This could be said the same way back to you, is your personal preference more important than those whose gameplay is compromised by this rule? Because I for one would likely not play on this server if it was overrun by two boxers. The alternative so far is over 300 unique people playing on a server at the same time, better than any other EQ EMU server.


Someone (Tantalar) once said that two-boxing players were infringing on his gameplay. I say that there can be no greater infringement than excluding potential players, or compromising the gameplay of existing players, by disallowing them the means that make the game playable for them.

Are you really arguing that the game is "unplayable" because you can't play two chars at once? That's a laughable argument at best.

His statement may have been valid if we were discussing whether or not to place an epic weapon vending machine in each city for those who couldn't bother doing the quest, but since boxing was entirely possible and not that uncommon on Live, and has been a staple feature and proven necessity throughout EQEmu history, I would argue that a different reasoning is necessary.

Has it proven necessary through EQ EMU history? Because It looks to me like this server proves otherwise.



Enjoy playing on PEQ with 10 people playing 5 chars each.



*EDIT* Just to add, I am not opposed to EVENTUALLY adding two boxxing. But at this point in the server, it seems NOWHERE close to necessary. I can understand if many months down the road players level 1-40 are so sparse its impossible to find a group, but at our current state, not necessary, at all.

[Wenai]

*EDIT* Just to add, I am not opposed to EVENTUALLY adding two boxxing. But at this point in the server, it seems NOWHERE close to necessary. I can understand if many months down the road players level 1-40 are so sparse its impossible to find a group, but at our current state, not necessary, at all.
That has been pretty much been my opinion all along. I think eventually we will level out and the low level crowd will just be non-existant. We can't expect to continue to grow forever. At some point the number of players at low levels will be sparse. But at this point it just isn't a concern.

[Sarkov]

Another point in favor of limiting boxing, for now: forced grouping can be good for the long term health of the server by encouraging people to meet new friends/guilds and become invested in the server community.

Barring a probably unreasonable level of success for the server, I think most people realize boxing will eventually need to be OK'd to maintain viability during the leveling process. But for now, I think the devs have made the right call - its probably worth trading content accessibility for increasing the value of each player to groups/guilds etc.

[Reiker]

Those people who never group and only duo with their own boxed toons aren't going to magically change their playstyle completely, roll warriors and group every minute of their life. They're just going to roll magicians. Don't fool yourself into thinking that taking away boxing is going to somehow force people into playing the game the way you want them to and miraculously strengthen the community.

[karsten]

Those people who never group and only duo with their own boxed toons aren't going to magically change their playstyle completely, roll warriors and group every minute of their life. They're just going to roll magicians. Don't fool yourself into thinking that taking away boxing is going to somehow force people into playing the game the way you want them to and miraculously strengthen the community.

this

[Keebs]

I dunno, I play late nights usually lvling solo or trying to find a person online my lvl is rpetty tough sure do wish times like this allowed to box , also apparent druid ports and such, yea peak 300 how much of the population is alredy 20 + its so tough to lvl by my self or even duo, just wishing there was more of a freedom with this like regular servers have, then u have all these exemptions running around that box anyways infront of u and its really not fair, yea im sure they have people who actually play those accounts alot or somtimes, but they ahve the ability to log that char in for buffs, and stuff whenever they need to, rez etc, i wish i could do that..

[Distance]

I think the pros outweigh the cons honestly, at least for two per account. I agree allowing more would become rampant anti-social wasteland; ex. "The Grand Creation", where six-boxing reigns king. I think a reasonable suggestion would be to open a poll and take a new reading of the community. If it is any indication of the interest this thread went to three pages overnight on a dry forum.

I think the general consensus in this thread was that ultimately it ought to be allowed as the spread of levels will be more noticeable and difficult on new players. Perhaps that time is now? Not everyone can mage group/rez bug/exploit their way to 50. Not everyone has time to find groups. Not everyone is the same level, etc.

As it stands people simply apply and get exemptions and stealthily play their "wife's" character. I'm not naive enough to think it doesn't happen, I also don't believe they have the staff to monitor it, nor should they. It has been pointed out there are better areas to devote resources to.

Linkdeath'ing to buff, blatant sharing of accounts, etc. it's all common practice, especially on emulated servers. For example, Shards of Dalaya's top guild all share passwords. It was common to have one person log 5 guild characters to completely buff new characters. But I'm getting off the subject -- my point is this: It's going to happen regardless.

I think the most sound argument was that if a dual-boxer chooses to group with the same class then they get something done they would not have otherwise, nobody is compromised if they choose to simply stick to themselves. Nobody is going to magically change their playstyle, people who want to solo will solo. I see tons of people seeking groups that would be enabled to at least kill something and venture into empty zones. If this were a live server with a larger population that scene would be different.

[Keebs]

I think the pros outweigh the cons honestly, at least for two per account. I agree allowing more would become rampant anti-social wasteland; ex. "The Grand Creation", where six-boxing reigns king. I think a reasonable suggestion would be to open a poll and take a new reading of the community. If it is any indication of the interest this thread went to three pages overnight on a dry forum.

I think the general consensus in this thread was that ultimately it ought to be allowed as the spread of levels will be more noticeable and difficult on new players. Perhaps that time is now? Not everyone can mage group/rez bug/exploit their way to 50. Not everyone has time to find groups. Not everyone is the same level, etc.

As it stands people simply apply and get exemptions and stealthily play their "wife's" character. I'm not naive enough to think it doesn't happen, I also don't believe they have the staff to monitor it, nor should they. It has been pointed out there are better areas to devote resources to.

Linkdeath'ing to buff, blatant sharing of accounts, etc. it's all common practice, especially on emulated servers. For example, Shards of Dalaya's top guild all share passwords. It was common to have one person log 5 guild characters to completely buff new characters. But I'm getting off the subject -- my point is this: It's going to happen regardless.

I think the most sound argument was that if a dual-boxer chooses to group with the same class then they get something done they would not have otherwise, nobody is compromised if they choose to simply stick to themselves. Nobody is going to magically change their playstyle, people who want to solo will solo. I see tons of people seeking groups that would be enabled to at least kill something and venture into empty zones. If this were a live server with a larger population that scene would be different.

/agree

[lindz]

250 - 300 players is all well and good for US prime time but during EU prime time we're only seeing numbers of about 125. I don't often play during daytime hours, but I do wonder how the EU players are finding grouping.

[Somekid123]

Im outta here along with the other 20ish people that came along if boxing comes into play, and im sure a lot of the community will do the same.

[President]

Im outta here along with the other 20ish people that came along if boxing comes into play, and im sure a lot of the community will do the same.


Felt like I was the only one...

[Derazor]

Im outta here along with the other 20ish people that came along if boxing comes into play, and im sure a lot of the community will do the same.

Like a kid being sent to start in shoots and ladders - the infamous "I quit!" defense.

Because - all those boxers on live had such a negative impact on you.

1/3rd of the population might box, which would be cool to bring our regular active base of 300 to 400. But.

RAGEQUIT FOR THE WIN!! That is true to classic.

[entilza]

The way it is now is great, each character you meet is a real person! People are communicating to get groups it's very nice to see.

[President]

This thread needs to just die. The GM's have made their decision and boxxing will not be allowed until it is deemed "necessary."

If you don't like it, go play on PEQ and see how fun THAT server is.

[girth]

All I see is a bunch of solo classes that sit next to my group(2-3 people) and leech off us.

And an occasional 'wife' that doesn't talk or anything except maybe 1 thing every 5 hours.

[Danth]

It's sad you'd say that Girth.

Danth

[nilbog]

For those of you who missed the beta forums.. this is like resurrecting a dead horse, to kill it, then beat it some more.

The original arguments for boxing additional clients were wrought with bias, conjecture, and future-prediction.. on both sides.

I'll reiterate myself once more, though:

Summary: Boxing will not be allowed until there is a need. The need will be determined by such things as .. a declining population growth, the inability to complete encounters, and a general consensus that it is needed. None of those things are present here, so this is not an issue. I am very happy with my decision.

The general theme of these discussions was that anti-boxing players raised concerns for their own favor and benefit, and pro-boxing players addressed likely issues for the server. There was a blatantly obvious disparity in the tone, rationality and altriusm (for lack of better word) between the two groups.

In defense of.. what I consider a good community of people, the well-written opinions were mostly sent to me via private messages. I don't blame them for not wanting to join the flame arena.

I would be pretty impressed if the hardware could handle over 500, and personally, id rather see us fill up 500 single player chars, then use our current population and kill the server hardware with boxing.

Server hardware + connection would handle around 1000 clients at the moment.. and I hope not a single slot ever gets filled with a boxed character.

[Deathrydar]

Server hardware + connection would handle around 1000 clients at the moment.. and I hope not a single slot ever gets filled with a boxed character.

I want to have your babies, Nilbog!

[girth]

It's sad you'd say that Girth.

Danth

I had to LOL because I wasn't thinking of you when I said that. Tell Lara i'm sorry. You're the only couple I met in game that I believe is really 2 people, how else would Lara and I have emote fun while you pulled? =)

The other 4 or 5 though i've met, have all been pretty obvious.

[Deathrydar]

how else would Lara and I have emote fun while you pulled? =)

Danth, you better watch what your wife is doing while you're out busting your ass and pulling.:p

[Throttle]

250 - 300 players is all well and good for US prime time but during EU prime time we're only seeing numbers of about 125. I don't often play during daytime hours, but I do wonder how the EU players are finding grouping.

Unfortunately, EU players have had to live with this for so long. If circumstances are right for US players, it must be right always, and little regard is given to anyone outside of that point of view. It was the same thing on Live - how long was it before we actually got a EU server? And when we did, we got one or two at the most. Even if the online tally is 2-300 while you play, and even if you can easily get groups, just try to see things from more perspectives than your own. At the risk of sounding anti-American: You're not the only person in the world, and despite what may be a common sentiment, people outside your nation and timezone are not unimportant, and their case should not be blatantly disregarded just because it does not affect your personal situation. Unfortunately, that plea has always been utterly and completely ignored.

Im outta here along with the other 20ish people that came along if boxing comes into play, and im sure a lot of the community will do the same.

It is this kind of vulgar selfishness that poses the greatest risk to any community. Why do people have to be so intolerant?

No intelligent person could possibly argue against the fact that disallowing boxing has an infinitely greater impact on those who want to box than allowing it has on those who do not want to. But then, EQEmu communities tend not to be hindered by such burdens as compassion and rational thinking.

Goodbye and good luck. Nilbog, good job with the server, it is a great product in its own right, even if you cater primarily to the types of players who force you to disable communication channels, and perform DDoS attacks on your server. I suspect that too many of the VZTZ crowd made their way here.

[Takshaka]

Server hardware + connection would handle around 1000 clients at the moment.. and I hope not a single slot ever gets filled with a boxed character.

Wow, I just created my account here the other day. Friend told me about this. I was actually worried that an emu server wouldn't be able to handle much more than what is currently connected. This makes me pretty darn happy. To see that this has only been out of beta for a month(I think I am correct here) and the current growth is pretty impressive. Here is hoping that it continues and someday the server gets a little closer to its limits.

[Bigcountry23]

Goodbye and good luck. Nilbog, good job with the server, it is a great product in its own right, even if you cater primarily to the types of players who force you to disable communication channels, and perform DDoS attacks on your server. I suspect that too many of the VZTZ crowd made their way here.

I think your being rather unfair here and throwing out a bit of sour grapes.

As for your argument that the server is "Ameri-centric" and that since you are in another timezone you can't find a group I call BS. Right now it is 8PM GMT (that would be the UK BTW) and there are over 170 people online! Maybe I could understand your argument if it was prime time for you and there were only 30-40, but that's just not the case. Also, despite what you may have heard, not everyone in America works 9-5. Some of us work nights, some work rotating schedules. The population is growing and currently is such that it is not needed at this time.

[President]

I wish there was a good way to spread the word, I have been telling a lot of friends but most of them never played the game and don't have the nostalgia benefit that most of us do.

I posted on reddit but it didn't get any upvotes =/

[Haynar]

I have been telling the people I know too. Most of them being boxers, have limited interest. The boxing ban reminds me of the guilds that would not allow boxing, until they couldn't beat content. Then they would allow the boxers.

It’s pretty funny how it’s convenient, if it does not impact you. But when it diminishes your playing (because content cannot be beaten), then you would allow it. That’s called being a hypocrite.

It’s your sand box nilbog, and if I want to play here, I will play by your rules. But please do not belittle my desire to box, because you do not think it currently benefits you enough, and you will change your mind when it provides you the desired benefit.

I did not want to start a flame war over boxing. I was expressing my feeling on the matter.

Don't get me wrong, I still love the server and what has been created.

Haynar

[President]

I have been telling the people I know too. Most of them being boxers, have limited interest. The boxing ban reminds me of the guilds that would not allow boxing, until they couldn't beat content. Then they would allow the boxers.

It’s pretty funny how it’s convenient, if it does not impact you. But when it diminishes your playing (because content cannot be beaten), then you would allow it. That’s called being a hypocrite.

It's called changed their rules out of NEED, not DESIRE.

And, no, thats not being a hypocrite. Look up the definition.

It’s your sand box nilbog, and if I want to play here, I will play by your rules. But please do not belittle my desire to box, because you do not think it currently benefits you enough, and you will change your mind when it provides you the desired benefit.

Once again, has nothing to do with "benifit" but how people would LIKE to play the game. Without having to deal with 'ghost players' who don't respond but /follow. Without having to deal with people who simply aren't as good because they play two to three character.

It's a simple choice that people would rather play with other single characters, than not.

Once it becomes a SERVER ISSUE, then they are willing to set aside their PERSONAL ISSUES.

[stormlord]

Let me make this very simple for everyone. There were about 4000+ players on each server when EQ launched. There was no lack of grouping in EQ. Every zone had people in it. This server simply cannot compare to that. Players will have a much harder time levelling up here than they will in the original eq.

Boxing would help to reduce the frustration of not being able to find groups or being able to participate in a larger economy (more players). However, I am against boxing because I've dealt with it too much on live servers. It's annoying beyond words, but I like the people behind the boxing. They're just like anyone else. I have nothing against them personally. One of them that I know on live is a good friend, but when you do content that's changing and fast paced, boxers really slow you down. They get themselves into a position where they play well on their own but suck when they're having to follow people around and can't call the shots - can't control where the group goes so that they can reduce the chances of a bad circumstance. They slow everyone down and your efficiency falls fast. They hamper your ability to survive. Granted, this is better than not finding a group, but it's not necessarily better than new players playing solo-based classes as their main (will elaborate on this in next paragraph).

How is this server going to have a broad array of classes without enough people to group with?? These circumstances will favor solo-classes over group-classes. 100-500 people is not enough!!!! Especially for new players coming into the game. What's going to happen is that most people will initially play the classes that can solo. If they don't, they may get so frustrated they quit. In any case, they'll play the solo-based classes. This is going to limit their ability in the future to take on the tougher content unless they make alts. So I predict that players will have an added motivation to make alts. By that time they will hopefully have leveled their main up to 50. They'll twink their alts and level them up. They'll focus on speed and will be less likely to group with new players, but this won't apply to everyone. Some people have a generous spirit and will group with new players on their twinks, but this is not a given and is certainly not the preferable choice. Eventually, the higher level players will have accumulated a nice array of alts to take on bigger foes. This is how I see the server playing out at this time. The one question remains: Even if people play solo-classes to alleviate the problem of a small population, there's still going to be the feeling that the world is mostly empty. That can't be good, either.

I guess what I'm saying is that without boxing that doesn't necessarily mean that the server will shutdown because noeone can find a group. Instead, it'll just mean more people playing solo-based classes at first when they're new to the server. But, not everyone may like having to play a solo-class and having to accept that the server has a small population. Some people, when they don't see other players or don't get the opportunity to group, will just quit and move on, despite having the option play one of the many solo-based classes.

[Bigcountry23]

This server has the largest "confirmed" population of players of the EQEMU servers. A couple other servers may put up higher numbers, but there is no way to "know" how many people they have. With P99, you KNOW when you see 300 people on, there are 300 individuals connected.

When Naggy went down the other night, you know it went down to a group of individuals, not one guy who was hydra-ing 18 bots. That makes me happy.

[President]

Naggy was killed already?

[Bigcountry23]

Sunday night, killed by Inglorious Bastards.

[Tollen]

Naggy was killed already?

17 people... kill him

[Fanwen]

As Nilbog already posted. Boxxing will not happen until it becomes necessary.

If you are caught boxxing you will be banned. Consider this your final warning on the subject.

[Zithax]

When Naggy went down the other night, you know it went down to a group of individuals, not one guy who was hydra-ing 18 bots. That makes me happy.

why

[Bigcountry23]

Because what's the use of playing a MMO if it's just going to be you playing with yourself.

[messiah_b]

why

Because to me it indicates that there are actually players doing what I saw in this game originally which is to be 1/6th of the whole and see how my actions and those of my group influence the success or failure of the whole in a very challenging world.

There are way better console games out there so not sure why you would ever pick EQ.

[Tanknstein]

things people didnt mention yet.

if boxing was allowed. you would get:

-alts parked at rare named spawns
- every camp, camped. people now need a group for some spots. 80% more places open up to solo if you could box.
- ports, rezzes.... they lose a lot of their value. people make a druid. yes i say make, because they probably wont even play it. they just let it tag along until it can port.
- you get stuff like.... oh i'll log on my llvl 50 to buff up our entire group and let it sit on the side for whenever things get a little rough
- every low level xp group with a high level boxed enchanter on the side handing out c2 to the casters... makes it unrealisticly easy.
- trading between your characters would be instantly back. might as well get the shared bank back too.
- oh i'm killing level 35+ mobs here. lets have lvl 1 alts at the side for when a box of abu-kar drops. or any other lore item for that matter. first alt got the box? log it off... make a new alt. sit that one down next to me. get the picture?

it hurts the game in many ways. it totally changes the economy and how rare some items now are.

Boxing needs to stay out

[Jify]

............
- oh i'm killing level 35+ mobs here. lets have lvl 1 alts at the side for when a box of abu-kar drops. or any other lore item for that matter. first alt got the box? log it off... make a new alt. sit that one down next to me. get the picture?
...........

Ya! Free boxes for all :)

h8 boxing 8(

[Haynar]

Your argument is weak. Here are some alternate responses to what you said, to save anyone the trouble of responding.


-alts parked at rare named spawns

Guilds perma-camping rare named spawns, with a huge difference. They will not be selling the rare drops as often. Less rare items in game you or others may want, so less available to buy. Market controlled, so that all rares will have much higher prices. Not seeing your arguement, other than you want to be in group farming said items.

- every camp, camped. people now need a group for some spots. 80% more places open up to solo if you could box.

People need a group. You get a group or you don't get to play. Solo much lately? How's that working for you?

- ports, rezzes.... they lose a lot of their value. people make a druid. yes i say make, because they probably wont even play it. they just let it tag along until it can port.

Tried to get a port or a rez lately? Less boxers, means less total number of porters and rezzers. The server population does not support people spending full time porting or running zone to zone rezzing.

- you get stuff like.... oh i'll log on my llvl 50 to buff up our entire group and let it sit on the side for whenever things get a little rough

Done many CRs in a dungeon lately?

- every low level xp group with a high level boxed enchanter on the side handing out c2 to the casters... makes it unrealisticly easy.

So it is really not about boxers, it is about making the game as difficult as possible for everyone. Afterall if you have to go up hill to school in the snow, everyone should too, right?

- trading between your characters would be instantly back. might as well get the shared bank back too.

Not seeing your point here? Run out of things to rant about?

- oh i'm killing level 35+ mobs here. lets have lvl 1 alts at the side for when a box of abu-kar drops. or any other lore item for that matter. first alt got the box? log it off... make a new alt. sit that one down next to me. get the picture?

And you don't have an alt logged off to loot a box for you, in case an extra one drops? I will try and remember to follow you around and loot the rots to sell. Not seeing your point here, other than you have plenty of plat, and don't need more.


Boxing needs to stay out

I have argued my side before. Your viewpoints are a bit skewed.

I am all for boxing. But I am content without it.

They need to agressively enforce the ban of violators who box.

If you are going to make a strong argument against boxing, get it right. No more weak sauce.

Here, I fixed your list:

-It is not fair, that one person can play 2 characters and camp something meant for two or more people. That takes away the adventure, the teamwork, the thrill of the hunt. The joy of the kill.
-Its not fair to gather a group of several people, fight for 2 hours to get to a camp deep in a zone, to find some ass (who did not answer camp checks) camping the same spawn he has been at for the last 4 days. Only to see he is the only one selling the loot from that camp at twice the price it used to go for.
-It sucks to not be able to find a port or a rez when you needed, because the only porters or rezzers are boxers and they are asses. Sucks having people on the server who do not help others.
-Its sucks being the rejected "shaman, druid, chanter" from the group because they are not needed, because someones high level alt is constantly buffing so group invite requests are ignored. Why invite someone who provides no value added?
-If everyone can have a chanter alt to buff the group, we might as well just give out FT20 gear to everyone. Once again, who needs the chanter LFG, if they provide no benefit. If you want that, there is the EZ server a few slots up in the server selection list.
-The challenge of dropping that item on the ground, hoping you don't go LD, when there is noone to trade with, and get back in before it poofs would be gone. There would be no reason to have friends, guildies, or to try and trust a noob to hold an item and earn a few plat. Where is the fun in taking away helping others in needs?
-Getting an extra abu-kar drop is so nice, when you can make someones day and allow them to loot one. It is nice to help others. How many alts do you need with boxes anyways?

There are some good valid arguments for being against boxing. I can argue it either way, but I can make a much stronger argument against. Even though I would rather be able to box myself.

Haynar

[Tanknstein]

simply claimng something is weak. doesnt make it weak.
you not being able to see the point... well, maybe thats your lack of ability.

the points i made are clear. if you dont see the point. open your eyes.

I'm not ranting at all. dont even know what i should be ranting about. boxing isnt in the game, so why should i rant at all.
You're the one trying to flame/rant my post, probably just to increase your post count or whatever.

You fail hard in trying to break down my arguments. just saying it isnt so and lacking to see and understand the points i mentioned. thats just your shortcoming.

If you cant even see how having 2 characters online at the same time makes trading between your own characters easy again and might as well return the shared bank...
well.... sorry, but you just to stupid to try and make you see the point.

And yes I like the game to remain hard. You want every crushbone group fully buffed with lvl 50 spells and have 4 lvl 50s sit next to the 6 lvl 10s ??

I'm done. I realy think you playing the wrong game. Try wow. I heard that pretty easy. and they let you box.

goodbye.


edit:
"Solo much lately? How's that working for you?" lvl 29 to 39. solo. and a little bit of duo with a friend now and then. worked great. enjoyed it. thx for asking.
"Tried to get a port or a rez lately?" yep. I actually have friends. and think ahead before asking for help. you make sure the guy helping you isnt gonna have to wait or have to do major running himself if you're the one wanting a lazy port. I play a druid myself. If someone is standing at a druid ring and i'm not to far from one myself. good chance I'm porting the guy. But a lot of people fail to see the part where the druid has to do the running after the port took place.

"And you don't have an alt logged off to loot a box for you, in case an extra one drops? I will try and remember to follow you around and loot the rots to sell. Not seeing your point here, other than you have plenty of plat, and don't need more."
You dont see the point here? oh man, ok i'll try to explain it to ya. there is a timer on the corpses ya know. its much easier to store them on an alt and do the trading/selling/giving away later when you're standing in north freeport at the bank. instead of making it a race against time after shouting in ooc.

[Harazzer]

Actually he pretty much dismantled all your flawed arguments.

I feel pretty much the same as Haynar. I would like 2 boxing but I am fine without it. Honestly its not me (shaman) who suffers from lack of two boxing its the 7 or so classes that cannot effectively solo that do.

I'm done. I realy think you playing the wrong game. Try wow. I heard that pretty easy. and they let you box.

You could 2 box on eq 4 years before wow was launched.

And yes, blatant 2 boxers should be punished. Matahari two boxed his mage/cleric to 50, now he can often been seen pling a shadow knight. He says its his wife's character.... maybe she does play sometimes.. but watch him fight for 5 minutes and see what you think.

[Blink]

Boxahari two boxed his mage/cleric to 50, now he can often been seen pling a shadow knight.

fix'd

[entilza]

If you want to box then start up your own EMU Server... You can play with 20 box characters, create your own guild, kill all the cool dragons and /pizza yourself all night long. Don't forget to create your own forums and make a flames section so you can keep yourself occupied at work or while sleeping.

Tip: /LFG

[Blink]

If you want to box then start up your own EMU Server... You can play with 20 box characters, create your own guild, kill all the cool dragons and /pizza yourself all night long. Don't forget to create your own forums and make a flames section so you can keep yourself occupied at work or while sleeping.

If you don't want to read a discussion you shouldn't visit a forum. You can always make your own forum and have 0 threads, not create your own thread(s), not kill any time, and still /pizza yourself when no one is around.


P.S. - I like to go to shoe stores then act surprised when I see shoes.

[entilza]

The point is this discussion was dead long ago, as per the project manager :)

[Morfnblorsh]

Hear, hear! A bold toast to the illustrious and proud project manager!

All hail nilbog! All hail nilbog! All ha-.... wait...

wait a minute...

GASP!!!

nilbog is goblin spelled backwards!!!!

:eek:

OHHHHHHH MY GAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA-

[Shoikan]

Is there somewhere I can request from the Admins to get an exception for my IP, heres my situation:

I started playing a week or so with some RL friends, my roomate decided that he might be interested and when he attempted to log on, he couldnt, because Im online. I am not boxing, but since we are on the same IP we cant play at the same time... kinda a bummer. Any help here?

[Pheer]

Is there somewhere I can request from the Admins to get an exception for my IP, heres my situation:

I started playing a week or so with some RL friends, my roomate decided that he might be interested and when he attempted to log on, he couldnt, because Im online. I am not boxing, but since we are on the same IP we cant play at the same time... kinda a bummer. Any help here?

Post an IP exemption request in the petition/exploit section

[Bigcountry23]

Post an IP exemption request in the petition/exploit section

And both accounts will be flagged, watched, and banned if they show any sign of boxing (as has happened, as will happen agian).

[Deathrydar]

Let me make this very simple for everyone. There were about 4000+ players on each server when EQ launched.
Let me make this simple for you, ummmmm.no. No server ever had 4,000 people on it, especially at launch. You wouldn't even be able to move in any of the zones.

Remember before you exagerate, there were only THREE continents when EQ launched, and barely no one was on Odus, which cut it down to two. 4,000 people on two continents, lol.

[Takshaka]

Let me make this simple for you, ummmmm.no. No server ever had 4,000 people on it, especially at launch. You wouldn't even be able to move in any of the zones.

Remember before you exagerate, there were only THREE continents when EQ launched, and barely no one was on Odus, which cut it down to two. 4,000 people on two continents, lol.


Yeah I thought that was kinda ridiculous too. I think I remember there being something like 1800 people on the heavily loaded servers. But I wasn't sure about the exact numbers, as that was 10 years ago.

[Falisaty]

hell i never remembered 4k people ever on a server at peak times..... i know 1.8 to 2k were normal

[Danth]

I don't know about 4K, but a few of the most heavily-populated servers did see peak populations exceeding 3K. 2K or so was probably more average, with the least-populated servers (the PvP servers) hovering around 1500.

Danth

[abbadox]

Heh.

I don't play here, but I decided to check out the forums and I simply had to register and respond to this.

There was an official boxing poll on the beta forums where nilbog asked for our opinions. More votes were given to allow two-boxing than not, but since he had said from the beginning that it would ultimately be his decision and that he only wanted to know how people felt, it didn't matter. This was fair enough, if a somewhat unorthodox choice of management. Not all current players were around at the time to vote, I'm sure.

There were long discussions concerning the matter of whether or not to allow two-boxing. Everyone weighed in and contributed with their opinions. The vast majority of these opinions can be summed up in two categories with the range of reasons:

Anti-boxers: We don't want others to have an advantage. We don't want to risk a lower chance of getting loot. It doesn't feel classic. It's not how we remember it. Boxers won't group with other people. Boxers are selfish, anti-social players.

Pro-boxers: No emulated server will come close to any Live population. No emulated server's playerbase can sufficiently fill out the game world. Off-peak play will be severely compromised. We can't play for five hours at a time like we could 10 years ago. Non-boxing will heavily affect class choices. Non-boxing will prevent a Live-like raid environment.

The general theme of these discussions was that anti-boxing players raised concerns for their own favor and benefit, and pro-boxing players addressed likely issues for the server. There was a blatantly obvious disparity in the tone, rationality and altriusm (for lack of better word) between the two groups. Well-written and thoughtful posts were responded to with almost vulgar selfishness in some cases as certain players were more concerned with their chances at getting loot or being able to charge for services than with the potential success of the server.

I played sporadically for the first few days after the server launched just to take a look, and I occasionally glance at the online tally out of sheer curiosity just as I still visit the forums of games that I haven't played for years. It was pleasantly active at the time, but despite the fact that everyone save for a handful of magicians were in the same level range for the first week, groups were still not autmoatic and half the dungeons within that level range were still empty most of the time. The game was playable, but I don't think one could reasonably claim that the game world was filled out. I had next to no instances of being unable to find a group due to the groups being full or the zone overcamped, but I had my fair share of simply not finding anyone willing to group, or lacking a healer for hours at a time. As predicted, some classes were grotesquely over-represented and others barely present.

My estimate at the time of the above-mentioned discussions was that the server would need an absolute bare minimum of 100 players online at any given time to be maginally playable as this was approximately the amount of players needed to supply one full group per five level increments as well as the inevitable crowd of soloers, socializers, tradeskillers and other players who have no direct influence on the activity of the grouping scene. 130 are online right now, probably a chunk more during peak and a chunk less in a few hours when the actual off-peak shift begins. For the server to meet my criteria of thriving and Live-like to the point where the fact that it is an emulated niche server is not thrust in your face in all elements of gameplay, it would need 4-500 online at a time.

I'm happy that the server is doing well, and as I told nilbog before the launch, I congratulate him on his results even though I strongly disagree with a few key aspects. We simply have different views of what the desired outcome is, and those in charge of the server evidently feel that rudimentarily playable server is worth more than the controversies of two-boxing. I would have played on a server where groups are available at all times to anyone and class flexibility is much more forgiving, but that's that.

What I wanted to arrive at is the fact that no, boxing was not "voted against" or "strongly opposed" or anything of the sort. The matter had simply been decided upon by those with the authority to decide and thus the efforts of the players were futile. It was nevertheless interesting to see such an impressive difference in the general mentality of the pro- and anti-boxing players, and amusing enough to see some of them taking the launch day population as a basis for such reactionist quotes as: "lol and those retards wanted boxing".

edit


Assuming that the player in question does not have a group readily accessible at most times, which one can guess is usually the reason for people wanting to two-box, two possible scenarios can exist:

1: The shadowknight is alone. He can't play the game as he wants to play it. He can't do much of anything (unless he rolls a magician) and he probably spends most of his time trying to kill low blues with varying success, crafting things noone really wants, exploring on his own, hailing random mobs, looking up quests he might be able to do and so on. If there were always shamans around to accompany the shadowknights of the world, few would bring up such concerns.

2: The shadowknight is allowed to two-box. He can play the game the way he wants to, he can level up and enjoy the majority of the game's content. He can craft, explore or quest with greater success than he could alone. If he did not want to two-box, he wouldn't have to. If the hypothetical superfluous shaman exists, the former player can choose to group with him or he can choose not to. If he does, noone is compromised; if he does not, the latter player still better off than scenario 1 because they can choose to two-box as well.

In all my years playing and two-boxing Everquest, of all the boxers I've known, there has been a tiny, inconsequential fraction of them who staunchly refused to group with others. They are also the players who, if not allowed to two-box, are soloing in some remote corner of the world in the company of their fire pet, or not playing at all. The rest of us just enjoy the game more when playing two characters, whether because we don't have to spend so much time doing nothing, or because the primitive nature of Everquest's classes simply does not entertain us in singularum.

I would have to 100% agree with this post. I would have to say there are times I wish I could box a second toon, because I play late late at night when theres just a small handful of players online. Even then those players are off doing their own thing.

[Touch]

I would have to vote no for dual boxing (not that this is a poll or anything)

Even though I plan to play with my roommate, we both decided - due to odd play times and the relatively small population - that we would play characters that can solo.

This is an MMO, if you want to solo there are (several) characters designed for it.

(I'm with the group that doesn't want to be forced to compete with people dual boxing rare spawns and/or dungeons)

[Zarniwooop]

So my girlfriend and I cannot play together?

Edit: I'm not sure the no-box rule has limited the anti-social, selfish players.

They're here already. In force.

[Goobles]

Your girlfriend and you may play together, you just have to ask.

[karsten]

I'm not sure the no-box rule has limited the anti-social, selfish players.

They're here already. In force.


haha, this thread is over

[someguy]

it's BS because you see people boxing all the time.. I grouped with this one guy the other day, and he was like "OH this is my girlfriend!" but his other character that he was obviously boxing NEVER said anything and they were both playing at about 50% capacity. the no box rule is a JOKE because there is a server sponsored legit way around it. until we can box, or the 1 ip per house rule is really enforced and there's no loophole around it, i think i'm done.

You see people power leveling their "room mate" all ready, which is taking spawns from newbs who painstakingly take the time to find groups. it's not very fun when you see somone getting power leveled right next to you, with one character JUST SITTING AND CASTING HEAL EVERY 10 minutes.. If that's not boxing, I don't know what is. You can't give people the oppurtunity to box even for 30 minutes and tell everyone else it's a no-go.

[Bubbles]

with one character JUST SITTING AND CASTING HEAL EVERY 10 minutes.. If that's not boxing, I don't know what is. You can't give people the oppurtunity to box even for 30 minutes and tell everyone else it's a no-go.

That's called "the cleric class". Outside of the rare times we need to pull w/ lull, root/park, or chain stun, you've just desribed exactly what the cleric class does in EQ: Sitting and casting heal every ten minutes.

[Jameus]

Agreed Bubbles! If I didn't participate in group chat I sure would look like I was a box at times. Especially if the group is smooth sailing and there isn't anything crazy going on. Sitting there meditating mana for the next set of heals is the life of a cleric.. :D

My wife plays a chanter, like she did in live for 4yrs, and I've helped her out a little bit! It consisted of her pwning blues in CB while I watched her health and buffed her now and then. This is nothing different than I could do for any guildie at that level. Not boxing but might appear that way for sure. The GM's are watching!! Maybe not 24/7 but they are I'm sure.

[someguy]

yeha cleric is lvl 40+ cleric healing a lvl 14 in oasis! wow! I SHOULD HAVE ROLLED ONE! that's boxing, folks. tell me it's not and ill call you a retard. i wasnt saying the lvl 13 cleric healing lvl 11-13s, but it just becomes unfair when the "room mate" is 40+ healing a teen..

that's why we don't have boxing, yet ppl are still doing just that

[Harazzer]

I can see both sides. Matahari has been openly boxing since day one of the server with a cleric. However I was PL'ing my friend in SOLA the other day on my shaman and probably did look semi boxish if you just saw it happening.

[Jameus]

yeha cleric is lvl 40+ cleric healing a lvl 14 in oasis! wow! I SHOULD HAVE ROLLED ONE! that's boxing, folks. tell me it's not and ill call you a retard. i wasnt saying the lvl 13 cleric healing lvl 11-13s, but it just becomes unfair when the "room mate" is 40+ healing a teen..

that's why we don't have boxing, yet ppl are still doing just that


Someguy, you make me laugh :D Boxing and PL'ing... two entirely different things :) But whatever. You're obviously trying to stir the pot up so have at it lol

[someguy]

All I'm trying to say is, people are boxing. There is clearly a rule against it, yet people are doing it very openly. I have a girlfriend. Does she want to play EQ? Good heavens no. Could I convince her to play for atleast level 1-2, so I could get an IP exemption? Yes. Could I use that to circumvent the rules and box to my heart's content? Absolutley!

Why is there rules if there's very easy ways to get around them? There's people out there boxing VERY obviously, yet the GMs do nothing. So why do I have to lie and cheat if I want to box, instead of just doing it legitly? Seems a little ass backwards to me. If I wanted to pay $20 a month in 1999, I could have easiy done so. I didn't have to lie to Verant and cheat to box, I just had to give them a little extra cash. Seems like the GMs are promoting deception and lies as the server's basic principals.

[nilbog]

There's people out there boxing VERY obviously, yet the GMs do nothing.

You have no idea what the GMs do or have done. If you are talking about a particular individual, why don't you petition it? The blanket statement that the GMs do nothing though is ridiculous. I review the logs of all of them; you are completely wrong.

So why do I have to lie and cheat if I want to box, instead of just doing it legitly?

Because boxing more than 1 client per person is against the server rules.

Seems like the GMs are promoting deception and lies as the server's basic principals.

Nope.

As far as the rest of the thread, I've said my peace.

[Pimp1]

i have logs of admitted boxing, the char normally doesnt box but at the time he was and the GM basically ignored me and told me i was wrong and didnt bother checking the logs, because his char was the guild leader of the guild the boxer was in!!! troll on that!

[someguy]

yeah they "read all the logs of exempted ips," yet they want us to petition boxing. *rolls eyes*

it should be 1 account per IP NO EXEMPTIONS or box if you want to. pick one, because it's just not fair to those of us who are, hrm, you know.. honest?

[nilbog]

I review the logs of all of them; you are completely wrong.

yeah they "read all the logs of exempted ips," yet they want us to petition boxing. *rolls eyes*

The GMs' logs, not the players. You are assuming things I didn't say. :rolleyes: Its their job to watch you, and mine to watch them.

Its really not up for debate.. they are watched and reported and action has been taken against certain players. Your opinion of how things operate is noted.

[Danth]

"it should be 1 account per IP NO EXEMPTIONS or box if you want to. pick one, because it's just not fair to those of us who are, hrm, you know.. honest?"

Pray tell, how is *your* proposal fair to, say, my wife and I?

You worry too much about a few abusers.

Danth

[Bubbles]

yeha cleric is lvl 40+ cleric healing a lvl 14 in oasis! wow! I SHOULD HAVE ROLLED ONE! that's boxing, folks. tell me it's not and ill call you a retard. i wasnt saying the lvl 13 cleric healing lvl 11-13s, but it just becomes unfair when the "room mate" is 40+ healing a teen..

that's why we don't have boxing, yet ppl are still doing just that

Dude... seriously... We're at the point of the server now where I'm handed Enamlled Black Maces to low level monks, buffing anyone I see in a newbie zone with lvl 50 cleric buffs, ppl are saving their corpses in stupidly out of whacked ZEM zones because they know one of the 5 49+ clerics will be by eventually..

Classic Launch is officially over. There's a zillion people artificially 45+, and it's far too late to go back now. It's not so much that boxing and twinking isn't (or won't be) an issue, it's just that it's not nearly the biggest elephant in the room when it comes to why this server is suddenly so out of whack.

If there is some level 50 cleric or druid twinking out some melees in oasis, he's only trying to get the toon to level 20, where he's no longer going to be needed outside of a quick group port to lavastorm. Every person I've told about this server in the last few weeks that has showed up and hit 20+ is just dumbfounded at SolA and how "people who played in 99 would think this is even remotely normal". And I shrug my shoulders and say "too late, dmg done". It's like watching Gordon Ramsey on TV with the girlfriend and not being able to convince her that he's Scottish/British. It's frustrating, but eventually you just basically give up and plan for the next big thing, cuz this is just going in a bad direction.

I'm sitting there during 200+ population peak as the only person in Lower Guk (maybe one other guy camping Evil Eye), and I'm running around picking off 6-7 nameds with enough time for a smoke break before repops.. Simultaneously /w all Soldungb comes back empty, there's 2-3 people camping spectres... There's a group of 6 level 20s killing zone in in mistmoore, there's one necro in unrest, and a pair of 50 shaman in Cazic Thule. Gee... I wonder where everyone could be?

Let's put all the cards on the table. The vision is dead, YOU ALL let it effing happen and stood by idly claiming that it sure "felt" classic.

Well it doesn't. It isn't. And now we got a zillion artificial 50s who are gonna get to log in one or two times a week to race to two dragons. Which was everyones favorite... err least favorite part of the classic experience.

We've seen a Plane of Sky / Hate / Nagafen progression. It's not jealousy, it's me banging my head against my computer desk wondering how people could spend this much time/effort on recreating EQC and being PRESENT for obvious holes in time line. I could care less if a GM was there or not, there's a dozen other people present who actually thought that was a natural flow of things. That's..... EMBARRASSING.... And puts a huge black eye on the server as a whole.

So yeah, you're gonna see *plenty* more level 50s healing people in Oasis. Cuz there isn't much more left to do till 51-60 in Kunark when people might be forced to actually grind legit for the first time. Woo hoo. At least Oasis is now more beneficial for the 50s than South Ro.

Yes we all love this server and are having the times of our lives recreating the experience we had 10 years ago. But once a week I'm good for a painfully long rant on the basics that continue to be mysteriously erroneous and unchanged. Cest La Vie.

[Harazzer]

No cmon, killing a teal gnome at level 47 should give 3% of the level, you must be crazy!

[Bubbles]

No cmon, killing a teal gnome at level 47 should give 3% of the level, you must be crazy!

shh there is still a handful of people who aren't 50 yet.

[Goobles]

I want pie. Gimme.

[messiah_b]

Classic Launch is officially over. There's a zillion people artificially 45+, and it's far too late to go back now. It's not so much that boxing and twinking isn't (or won't be) an issue, it's just that it's not nearly the biggest elephant in the room when it comes to why this server is suddenly so out of whack.

Yeah at this point 45+ should be a very elite crowd.

I was pretty surprised with the nag thing as I didn't think there would even be enough 50's on the server to attempt it let alone have camped the gear. Pretty clear that there wasn't enough rage quit over the 24 hour playtime hell levels.

[Bubbles]

Yeah at this point 45+ should be a very elite crowd.

I was pretty surprised with the nag thing as I didn't think there would even be enough 50's on the server to attempt it let alone have camped the gear. Pretty clear that there wasn't enough rage quit over the 24 hour playtime hell levels.

I wasn't that surprised with the nag kill at all, tbh. If there's one thing this server does have it's a *ton* of talented EQ vets who play the game at an incredibly high level. I actually expected raid bosses to be downed even quicker than they were, if you can believe that.

My major point of contention has always been that this isn't EZ Server, and there's zones in this game that are simply giving insanely high amounts of XP per kill way out of line to circa 1999 EQ live.

People are gaining 4-5 levels a day in their 30s, and that's in spite of leaving a half dozen corpses that allows me ding them yet another level. It's not limited to one group or one guild... It's infected this whole server like a cancer and it seriously bothers me that people have turned an oblivious eye to the obvious. Pretty much everyone I've steered to this server who used to play back in '99 who step into Sol A just laugh.

But I mean, what do we do? Retroactively adjust everyone's XP based on a new modifer? Too much hassle? Change it now and punish those who found out about Candyland (tm) too late? That's not a good way to approach it either.

At this point all I want is just an admission of guilt, that something was dreadfully wrong and those who could pull the trigger in righting the wrong were asleep at the wheel, cuz lord knows us players do a pretty lackluster job of bug reporting and policing ourselves (and esp. each other).

A nice added bonus would be to turn the bankers in each city to miner's guild faction. That'd be a fun easter egg for a day or two. rawr.

[Penoy]

i now wish i had leveled in Sol A ....

[Dolalin]

This is why these fixes need to be made asap and not left to sit for 3 weeks.

[magic]

i now wish i had leveled in Sol A ....

I remember it taking 8-12 hours to get a level in the 30s. It's amazing that people now go from 30-40 in two days... If there was a vote, I'd vote for retroactively changing exp and /laugh at all the 50s that are suddenly 35.

[solories]

What does someone do if there roommate is already playing on this server then? Virgis and I played together some on this server during beta and I would like to start playing again now that beta is over.

[solories]

nevermind I found the answer.

[nocaps]

so when my chronic altitis kicks in and i use up my 8 character slots am i sol?

btw, i have never/never will box. but i do, however, like to eventually dabble in all classes available.

[stormlord]

Gather up the sol levelers and burn em at the city center!

Burn the blasphemers! Burn!

Seriously, this needs to be fixed. But pls don't burn them.

PS: I'm assuming that that this is a problem because of what people have said here, not because it's a fact.

[ardensai]

BETA SERVER----CHARACTERS WILL BE WIPED CLEAN AFTER BETA PERIOD ENDS.

After server opened up for a month and now with a significant portion of the server population being at lvl 45+. Development team should have enough time to look at the feedback they have gotten from players and make adjustments accordingly. Tweak the bads, and nerf the exceptionally goods to make the server true to its name, lo & behold, grand new start.

I know, I know, you guys are going to flame me. I'm so sorry.

[messiah_b]

so when my chronic altitis kicks in and i use up my 8 character slots am i sol?


You can get multiple logins through eqemu and use them. The restriction is on having them logged in at the same time.

[Vanech]

To steer this thread back on topic (what's all this about exp rates and sol a and crap?)

I two or three boxed occasionally on Live, usually with my monk and two of my friend's characters while they were sleeping. This was near the tail end of my time on Live though, and now that I think back it may have contributed to my decision to stop playing.

I have nothing against boxing in emu. I have at least two accounts logged in on every other server I play on... on some like SoA I roll out with a full group, although the other five characters are basically there to be buff bots. I don't use MQ, and I only have the ability to play two characters at once with any efficiency. (alt+tab is one thing, but having to alt+tab, then alt+tab tab then alt+tab tab tab etc. while keeping track of where each character is in the order is beyond me, unless I've drank a four pack of Amp...)

I two boxed during the P1999 beta, cleric / monk combo. I'm extremely pleased that the decision to disallow two-boxing was made though. While I'm generally a soloist when I do play, it's nice to see all the LFG and LFM spam in /ooc... almost makes it seem like Live.

[Goobles]

I thought this thread was dead!

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a74/RiddlN/issue.jpg

[Vanech]

now do one that has the tribunal wearing MC Hammer pants! (would they technically be pantaloons?)

[Bubbles]

BETA SERVER----CHARACTERS WILL BE WIPED CLEAN AFTER BETA PERIOD ENDS.

After server opened up for a month and now with a significant portion of the server population being at lvl 45+. Development team should have enough time to look at the feedback they have gotten from players and make adjustments accordingly. Tweak the bads, and nerf the exceptionally goods to make the server true to its name, lo & behold, grand new start.

I know, I know, you guys are going to flame me. I'm so sorry.

I'm always for a server wipe. :)

[fabric9]

This killed my interest in the server, really. The game just isn't fun enough when you're only playing one character. It's the reason I was paying monthly for 3 accounts back in the day.

Too bad, I was pretty psyched about taking a trip down memory lane.

[nilbog]

Sorry to hear. Most of the people who play here.. say the exact opposite. They are here due to the no-boxing rule.

[lumin]

I love the no boxing rule. The fact that the server is now averaging over 650 players a night is evidence and more reason to not ever have multi-boxing.

If you're too bored just playing one character at a time, then EQ classic is not for you. Go over to PEQ or the fun server.

[spartus]

I Agree, as for low level grouping is available...No idea about the mid-higher level but, no need until it becomes a highly noticable problem like Nilbog mentioned.

[Tallenn]

Sorry to hear. Most of the people who play here.. say the exact opposite. They are here due to the no-boxing rule.

Honestly, the post on the front page said the exact opposite: that the pro-boxers outnumbered the antis. I wasn't here for that, so can't verify, but you could always start a new poll now...

[nilbog]

Honestly, the post on the front page said the exact opposite: that the pro-boxers outnumbered the antis. I wasn't here for that, so can't verify, but you could always start a new poll now...

this one?

http://www.project1999.org/forums/showthread.php?t=2738&highlight=no-boxing+rule

[Kerrik]

I definitely prefer the no boxing rule. There are a lot of games built around a solo model. Everquest allows soloing, but it was always intended to foster group play and frankly that is one of the most attractive parts of the game to me. Joining a group and finding that there's only 1 or 2 other actual players, and the rest of simple boxes, reduces the community feeling of the game.

[Tallenn]

Heh.

SNIP

There was an official boxing poll on the beta forums where nilbog asked for our opinions. More votes were given to allow two-boxing than not, but since he had said from the beginning that it would ultimately be his decision and that he only wanted to know how people felt, it didn't matter. This was fair enough, if a somewhat unorthodox choice of management. Not all current players were around at the time to vote, I'm sure.

SNIP



This one: referring to some poll taken during beta. Again, I wasn't here then, so I don't know whether or not it is true.

[nilbog]

This one: referring to some poll taken during beta. Again, I wasn't here then, so I don't know whether or not it is true.

To the extent that that guy was proven wrong.. by this point is pretty funny. I was gonna let it fade away.

The fact is, we had very limited number of people even reading the beta forums at that point, and Throttle and I had some lengthy debates about the topic.

His argument hinged on the opinion that "Only 30-40 people would be playing on the server when it launched". I disagreed, and told him he couldn't foresee the future, and that people would appreciate not playing with bots. Also, with the understanding that another poll would be taken after launch, if the overwhelming opinion of lower playerbase was a factor. Low population is not a concern, and apparently I agree with the majority about wanting to play with real life people.

[Malrubius]

This one: referring to some poll taken during beta. Again, I wasn't here then, so I don't know whether or not it is true.

That poll was way after beta.

Since it was taken before you were here, I think you may be right - it could be one of those fake polls. ;)

[km2783]

I'd rather not see boxing allowed. I knew a lot of people that did it back in the day, and "free accounts" makes it more tempting I'm sure, but the best groups are always ones with real people at the helm of each character.

[spartus]

LOL km were talking about boxing not botting you have to be at the comp when ur two boxing =)

[Tallenn]

See now, that clears up a lot. This is the first day I have actually seen this thread, and I read it from beginning to end (hey, I'm at work, and there's still too many people around to play EQ, what else I'm gonna do?).

[Nedala]

The no boxing rule is THE reason this is the most populated emu server.

Look at the other servers with max. half our population and still half of the people online are bots. I would immediatly leave this server if boxing was allowed.

No-box ftw.

[L2Phantom]

I would immediatly leave this server if boxing was allowed.

Yeah pretty much, just be another live server at that point. Buncha robots, weeeee!~~~~

[toddfx]

I am realizing I might be confused about what "boxing" actually entitles. I was under the impression that "boxing" just means sitting behind 2+ computers (or running 2+ instances of the game) and physically controlling two characters at once.

But in this thread I keep seeing the words "bot" and "robot." Is there some kind of automated boxing system that people have worked out to have their characters move cast and fight with no human input? I don't get it. I thought that even though somebody was boxing, they were still physically controlling the characters themselves.

With that in mind, is there any separation between opinions on that? It sounds to me like most are complaining about the ROBOT factor, which I can completely understand.

But what gives if there are two characters being PHYSICALLY controlled by the same person? They are still gone to chat with you, from one of them. I guess I've just never had the experience of being around a lot of bots, or was just oblivious to it on live.

Not that it matters, especially here on page 13 of this thread, but my vote would be to allow a maximum of 2 boxed characters, with no outside hacks allowed.

[mitic]

imo, the 1 character rule is the reason why this server is so popular. with 600+ ppl online its not like we need boxes anyways.

boxing would make the server "easier" to play which would draw away my interest to play on it.

[Audacious93c]

Actually, I think a revamp on the IP Exemption system needs to be done. A lot of these people need their IP exemptions cut out.

[siinge]

i know multiple people who have an ip exemption for there "little brother" or "spouse" who box.. weather these people play or are played by multiple people, ive seen and been bragged to that they can and do box. It happens more than you think... honestly remove all ip exmpetions 1 account per household, 90% of the exmpetions are boxed and bullshit lies. I could start rattling off names of accounts with exmpetions but they would say its for "someone else".

[Bumamgar]

i know multiple people who have an ip exemption for there "little brother" or "spouse" who box.. weather these people play or are played by multiple people, ive seen and been bragged to that they can and do box. It happens more than you think... honestly remove all ip exmpetions 1 account per household, 90% of the exmpetions are boxed and bullshit lies. I could start rattling off names of accounts with exmpetions but they would say its for "someone else".

I'm sure there are abuses, but I believe your 90% statistic originates from your rectum.

Of course, anyone who knows me knows that I really do play EQ with my really for real spouse, and if there wasn't a way for us to both play, neither of us would.

I'm a huge fan of the no-boxing rule, and as others have stated, it's a big reason why this is the most popular EMU server by far. The devs have done a good job with the IP exemption system, and if you are really aware of people who abuse it and use it to box, you should make the admins aware of the abusers via the appropriate feedback mechanism instead of posting inflammatory, broad-sweeping allegations here.

[Weekapaug]

I'm sure there are abuses, but I believe your 90% statistic originates from your rectum.

Of course, anyone who knows me knows that I really do play EQ with my really for real spouse, and if there wasn't a way for us to both play, neither of us would.

I'm a huge fan of the no-boxing rule, and as others have stated, it's a big reason why this is the most popular EMU server by far. The devs have done a good job with the IP exemption system, and if you are really aware of people who abuse it and use it to box, you should make the admins aware of the abusers via the appropriate feedback mechanism instead of posting inflammatory, broad-sweeping allegations here.

Ditto. If my GF and I couldn't play together then neither of us would be playing.

And ditto. I think boxing was the ruin of the live game, more than any content decision made by the devs. What started out as a nice way to get some things done in a pinch really destroyed the game in so many ways. But don't point fingers at those of us who follow the rules as an example of those who don't. Boxing is cheating on this server, and if you are going to cheat, why would you go through the process of drawing attention to yourself by appealing for an exemption, when there are other ways around it? Get a clue before making blanket accusations simply because you feel like trolling on the forums.

[redghosthunter]

Now back in the begining when Boxing was talked about there was what? 100 people on peak? Now we got 500+. If ya cant find a group its cause ya a bad player. I like grouping it gives me a chance to pick on people. However there are those times when i just want exp grind and no drama.

How about this ... It would be bad in our limited content to suddenly go from 500+ people on to 1000+ people on cause we all boxing. Think about it ... There be nothing left to down... Now when Kunark comes along there will be more content... So crowding should not be a issue. As it is NOW i am running to 2 or 3 zones now to find a good spot. I could not imagin finding a camp with 1000+ people on.

[Zithax]

I think it should be 1boxing, and 2boxing allowed with donation.\

If ya cant find a group its cause ya a bad player.

this is wrong.

[Malrubius]

Now back in the begining when Boxing was talked about there was what? 100 people on peak? Now we got 500+. If ya cant find a group its cause ya a bad player. I like grouping it gives me a chance to pick on people. However there are those times when i just want exp grind and no drama.

How about this ... It would be bad in our limited content to suddenly go from 500+ people on to 1000+ people on cause we all boxing. Think about it ... There be nothing left to down... Now when Kunark comes along there will be more content... So crowding should not be a issue. As it is NOW i am running to 2 or 3 zones now to find a good spot. I could not imagin finding a camp with 1000+ people on.

Live had 1000+ from day one. And even worse, most people were around the same levels.

So it could be a LOT worse.

I've had no problem finding stuff to do even during peak hours with 600+ on.

[Haynar]

If ya cant find a group its cause ya a bad player.
I don't like to group. You find plenty of bad players in groups.

Haynar

[Landis]

Live had 1000+ from day one. And even worse, most people were around the same levels.

So it could be a LOT worse.


haha this is true. i remember unrest soon after launch, there were 100+ people a lot of nights. 80 people meant you were rolling in the experience! no wonder it took so long to get to 20 back then ;)

[Lazortag]

I don't like to group. You find plenty of bad players in groups.

Haynar

Uh, yeah, at like level 5.

[Malrubius]

Uh, yeah, at like level 50.

Fixed it for ya ;)

Ehh, there are good players and bad players at all levels. In groups and out of them. We all know it.

All of these players, solo and group alike, are what make EQ...EQ.

[Tallenn]

I think the point was already made that the no boxing rule just stops honest people from boxing. That's the way it ALWAYS is whenever you ban anything- in real life, just as in EQ. It never stops the dishonest or the criminals from doing it. I wonder how many exemptions there actually are on the server now. I'm guessing quite a few. I'm also guessing that almost every one of them has boxed- you can't make me believe that EVERY time both people with an IP exemption log in, there are two actual people behind those toons. Sure, most may only do it rarely, (or it may be rampant, I honestly don't know), but don't try to tell me it's not happening.

All you people that comment about how you're so happy there's no boxing allowed here, and would leave if it were allowed are just fooling yourselves. There IS boxing here, and I'm betting quite a bit of it. You can take comfort in the fact that it's against the rules, but that don't change the fact that it's happening- probably a LOT.

[fabric9]

It's not like most boxers would bring their boxes into the groups and take up slots for others. I know I rarely played more than one character when grouped, but it was nice to be able to 2, 3 or even 4box as necessary when there simply weren't people you knew around to play with. I dislike playing with people I don't know (or that my friends don't know), but maybe I'm weird that way.

It's a different game though. Later on in EQ, the game got alot more complex, and bringing your box to some highend one-group content just wasn't that viable. 3boxing was pretty much out of the question. You had to be insanely good to manage slowing, cc'ing, tanking and healing all at once. At this point, it's pretty much autoattack and wait. And that's pretty boring, no offense.

I have no doubt there are lots of people that have thought the same as me and hence why you have a high population of players that don't like boxing on the server. A poll taken on the server after the rule has been enforced for X amount of time will of course lean in the favor of the non-boxers, since the boxers aren't around anymore.

I didn't post to make you rethink your rules. I'm just saying I'm sad it is this way, and I (and my friend) won't be playing because it is. I hope you guys have fun though. Ciao.

[Sinlea]

No boxing please, but do away with the 3 minute thing between switching accounts.

[nilbog]

A poll taken on the server after the rule has been enforced for X amount of time will of course lean in the favor of the non-boxers, since the boxers aren't around anymore.

I have to say I disagree with your logic. It's in my opinion that no one knew wtf they were talking about prior to the server launching, and only after X amount of time would they have been afforded the time and experience to offer a REAL opinion.

The original boxing poll on the beta forums had 31 votes, btw. 31... on an anonymous internet poll.

I think its safe to say we now have a more accurate gauge of opinion.

I'm just saying I'm sad it is this way, and I (and my friend) won't be playing because it is. I hope you guys have fun though. Ciao.If you can *only* have fun playing more than 1 character at a time, I can't offer this to you. Good luck.

[Nikon]

I don't like to group. You find plenty of bad players in groups.

Haynar

To this I ask, why play an MMO? Why not play the newest Final Fantasy or some other single-player RPG where the only bad player you have to worry about is yourself? I thought these games were designed around the concept that you immerse yourself in a world filled with other player characters with which to interact and establish cooperative efforts to level and obtain items. And often times "bad players" lack experience and would benefit from a little constructive criticism instead of bashing.

And yes, boxing happens on this server I'm sure. I've seen a few suspicious duo's myself even and I'm not out there hunting for it, but you can bet there would be a lot more if it was "legal". People will always find a way around the rules if there is a will.

Just my 2 cp.

[Xumosa]

I dont think theres anything left of the poor horse :/

[karsten]

http://thebluecorner.files.wordpress.com/2009/04/mike-tyson.jpg

[Elysium]

I was extremely pro-boxing before the server launched. I also adamantly believed this server required NPC porters at spires, as well as Soulbinders.

But I really never ever expected this server to reach 600+ players online. I'm more than happy with the no-box rule, and to be honest I wouldn't mind seeing more stringent tabs on those with exemptions.

[Malrubius]

To this I ask, why play an MMO? Why not play the newest Final Fantasy or some other single-player RPG where the only bad player you have to worry about is yourself? I thought these games were designed around the concept that you immerse yourself in a world filled with other player characters with which to interact and establish cooperative efforts to level and obtain items.

The above part of your post could easily be turned around. For example..."If you want to group with just a small handful of players, why are you playing EQ?" Why not play Diablo II or something similar with your group?

It sounds like you are saying here that - if you want to have lots of social interaction in EQ, you need to group. That's not just incorrect - it could even be argued that it is backwards.

I find I have much more time to interact with...well, everybody (except my group)....when I am not in a group.


I should make it clear that I am NOT saying grouping is bad. I personally love it. I'm just saying that your suggestion (that those who do not group are either not social, or, not properly enjoying the social aspect of EQ) is misled.

[Nikon]

It sounds like you are saying here that - if you want to have lots of social interaction in EQ, you need to group. That's not just incorrect - it could even be argued that it is backwards.



I don't want to derail this thread so this will be short. That was not my intended meaning and it was indeed a legitimate question to the poster. The game is full of "bad players" in guilds, in groups, /ooc, etc... I was interested to see if the player avoids these other aspects of the game as well. IMO, boxing doesn't promote an MMO attitude of working with other RL players to accomplish goals and being social.

[Malrubius]

I don't want to derail this thread so this will be short. That was not my intended meaning and it was indeed a legitimate question to the poster. The game is full of "bad players" in guilds, in groups, /ooc, etc... I was interested to see if the player avoids these other aspects of the game as well. IMO, boxing doesn't promote an MMO attitude of working with other RL players to accomplish goals and being social.

Agreed - thanks for clarifying. Back to the eternal Boxing thread :p

[Lumathix]

I think it should be 1boxing, and 2boxing allowed with donation.\



this is wrong.

No.

[Olorin]

Is there ever going to changes to allow boxing up to 2 characters?

Classic for me, was playing 2 chars, SK / Shaman. I liked going off and doing my own thing. I liked to see what I could do by myself. I liked to raid on the SK, but when it was my own time, I liked to go off and do other stuff. I did not like to be dependent on groups. If I had 30 minutes to play, I could log in and be killing stuff right away.

This may be classic to a lot of people, but not for me. There are plenty with the "so called wife" playing the other characters going on. It is pretty easy to see that this isn't always the case though. Yes, the wife may play the char some of the time, but not always.

I think allowing up to 2 characters per IP address should be proposed.

No exceptions beyond 2 characters per IP address. None. Ever. Period.

This will take away the time wasted on "making sure exemptions arent boxing". No more time to process special cases where "the wife wants to play too". Etc. I think the time policing boxing, exemptions, etc., can be better utilized to improve the server.

Haynar

To be honest -- I would like to see no boxing and no exemptions. This rule is being abused over and over again. I would definetly be nice for the limited development resources to not have to spend ANY time on this.

To those who have a 'brother' or a 'wife' or need several exemptions, thanks the people abusing the rules.

[finalgrunt]

Boxing trivialize content. If you think there are already too much content soloed by magicians / necro or enchanters ... well it would be 10 times worse with boxing allowed.

Same for raid targets. A bunch of people would just monopolize most of raid content.

Also, boxing kills social links on the long run. True that a soloer won't group much, but still must do it for stuff that can't be soloed. Wouldn't be the case with boxing allowed.

No boxing is awesome and should be kept this way.

[Messianic]

I've read this entire thread. Good info for someone who wasn't around for the multiple other boxing debates.

Here are my conclusions based on this discussion and lots of mmo experience:

1) Boxing has a minimal to moderate negative effect on actual individual person server population as a whole. It does, marginally to moderately, depending on circumstances, affect individual ability to group across all levels, far moreso for levels 1-30ish. After you pass those levels, 2boxing is less of a detractor, but still has a negative effect, especially for people who play group-centric or weak solo classes, or people who want to group at heavily contested camps (Frenzy/Lord in lguk, etc).
2) Boxing has a net benefit to the economy of a server because most goods are farmed faster than pure platinum (since a good chunk of platinum is lost to the black hole of vendors for mats, spells, etc), and therefore prices on very good twink gear tends to fall, meaning buying that set of lambent or crafted actually becomes easier because people farm more effectively. However, this does also decrease grouping in areas where those items drop, since individuals now use platinum to acquire good gear and not groups. This even moreso makes the game more plat-market-farming centric as opposed to grouping centric. It gives incentive to those people who specifically farm platinum as opposed to actual drops. Example: since the other guy with an awesome geared-Necro/mage/Enc is farming that FBSS for you and selling it to you for 60% average price (I remember FBSS dropping in value very quickly after a month or so into Kunark), you'd rather just pay the cash or farm a different drop which you can sell than group for it.

Because of 1 and 2, boxing makes the game far more economy-centric. I actually like that, because I enjoy buying-selling and playing the markets, and i'd prefer to just build up cash (which can be done on an as-you-go basis) as opposed to camping for some item for hours.

The logic that states that "no one changes their playstyle because boxing is illegal" is valid, but not entirely accurate. It's over-idealized. People will resist heavily things that seek to change their playstyles, but they will seek substitutes for what they would ideally prefer (2boxing) or they go the illegal route and get taken care of (for the most part). The high server population of Enchanters, Shaman, Magicians, Druids, and Necros is evidence of a pressure valve for this slight playstyle change (From boxing to building up a solo class to farm and twink your class which you actually wanted to play).

Granted all of this, I would prefer if 2boxing were enabled because I simply do not have consistent, large blocs of time to devote to EQ. Every now and then I get a few hours, but I don't know when I might have to quit. I might have 30 minutes, I might have 4 hours, but it depends. My playtime is far too erratic to group effectively (although I have been in a few good ones). I generally lose so much time trying to find a group as opposed to camping Osargen in HK or Saben Tucross in lfay, then have to leave less than an hour after entering the group. I am currently 24, and it hasn't been easy to come across decent groups that exceeded my solo xp (I am a wizard) up to this point.

I prefer not to put groups through all that if i'm just going to have to bail in a short period of time. That's why I would prefer to 2box. I'm okay without it, and would really like to have it at my disposal now (with my perpetual desire to play every single class), but I understand that it does have a negative impact on the server as it stands.

Would it kill P1999? I strongly doubt it. Is it necessary right now? Nah. I think most people don't think it's absolutely necessary. But I don't understand people who say "OMG 2BOXING IS THE DEVIL." I've played too many mmos (some more group-centric than EQ) where people 2boxed and the evidence showed that it wasn't a game-killer.

I also find it silly to leave just because it is or is not banned. It may be slightly more difficult for you either way, but the game is still very playable.

I have sympathy for you EU folks, and I think you're the hardest hit by the ban. But there are always solutions available for those who are willing to do the hard work of finding them. I know plenty of European players who band together and form a tight-knit community of people who play during the same time, and they are almost always grouped.

In conclusion, this isn't as huge a deal as people make it out to be, and that's from me as a person who really wants to 2box, but wants to preserve the integrity of the server as best as possible.

[azeth]

i read that whole thing

[Maidikament]

Someone was talking about economy.... the number of people who have over 100k in bank is alot bigger here then it was on EQ after 1 year. Dunno if its because gem or cash drop too often but i dont think boxing can do worse then what it is actually.
Btw, it was possible to buy a manstone during velious for under 30k on live.

About boxing, even if i box alot on PEQ, i dont mind to dont box here. The problem is Im sure there are some people who box, even without the permission of 2 ip. Just need a non protected wifi around and a second PC.

[Cogwell]

If you think boxing is bad, you should check out what Mercenaries have done to grouping on live.

Like a lot here, I love to box, but understand the effect it will have on the server. Allow boxing and you add at least 50% to server pop.

[Keerarae]

I like and dislike the policy. I like it because when I'm grouping I know I'm with 5 other real people and I get to know them decently well.

I don't like it for the fact that I can't log in a char to port/buff/rez myself but that is really just a big convenience that I don't really need.

[Messianic]

If you think boxing is bad, you should check out what Mercenaries have done to grouping on live.

Like a lot here, I love to box, but understand the effect it will have on the server. Allow boxing and you add at least 50% to server pop.

It's not quite that much. You're assuming that half of the people normally on the server (+/- population change after the policy is altered) will 2box if it's allowed.

I really don't think it's that high (i'd generously grant 35%). There are far more casuals on p1999 than most know about...

[Drayc]

This was a nice thought, but if this poll was the one you are speaking of, i think you're off... if not then this is still a poll that this server took and as you can see the majority does not want boxing here...

http://www.project1999.org/forums/showthread.php?t=2738

Heh.

I don't play here, but I decided to check out the forums and I simply had to register and respond to this.

There was an official boxing poll on the beta forums where nilbog asked for our opinions. More votes were given to allow two-boxing than not, but since he had said from the beginning that it would ultimately be his decision and that he only wanted to know how people felt, it didn't matter. This was fair enough, if a somewhat unorthodox choice of management. Not all current players were around at the time to vote, I'm sure.

There were long discussions concerning the matter of whether or not to allow two-boxing. Everyone weighed in and contributed with their opinions. The vast majority of these opinions can be summed up in two categories with the range of reasons:

Anti-boxers: We don't want others to have an advantage. We don't want to risk a lower chance of getting loot. It doesn't feel classic. It's not how we remember it. Boxers won't group with other people. Boxers are selfish, anti-social players.

Pro-boxers: No emulated server will come close to any Live population. No emulated server's playerbase can sufficiently fill out the game world. Off-peak play will be severely compromised. We can't play for five hours at a time like we could 10 years ago. Non-boxing will heavily affect class choices. Non-boxing will prevent a Live-like raid environment.

The general theme of these discussions was that anti-boxing players raised concerns for their own favor and benefit, and pro-boxing players addressed likely issues for the server. There was a blatantly obvious disparity in the tone, rationality and altriusm (for lack of better word) between the two groups. Well-written and thoughtful posts were responded to with almost vulgar selfishness in some cases as certain players were more concerned with their chances at getting loot or being able to charge for services than with the potential success of the server.

I played sporadically for the first few days after the server launched just to take a look, and I occasionally glance at the online tally out of sheer curiosity just as I still visit the forums of games that I haven't played for years. It was pleasantly active at the time, but despite the fact that everyone save for a handful of magicians were in the same level range for the first week, groups were still not autmoatic and half the dungeons within that level range were still empty most of the time. The game was playable, but I don't think one could reasonably claim that the game world was filled out. I had next to no instances of being unable to find a group due to the groups being full or the zone overcamped, but I had my fair share of simply not finding anyone willing to group, or lacking a healer for hours at a time. As predicted, some classes were grotesquely over-represented and others barely present.

My estimate at the time of the above-mentioned discussions was that the server would need an absolute bare minimum of 100 players online at any given time to be maginally playable as this was approximately the amount of players needed to supply one full group per five level increments as well as the inevitable crowd of soloers, socializers, tradeskillers and other players who have no direct influence on the activity of the grouping scene. 130 are online right now, probably a chunk more during peak and a chunk less in a few hours when the actual off-peak shift begins. For the server to meet my criteria of thriving and Live-like to the point where the fact that it is an emulated niche server is not thrust in your face in all elements of gameplay, it would need 4-500 online at a time.

I'm happy that the server is doing well, and as I told nilbog before the launch, I congratulate him on his results even though I strongly disagree with a few key aspects. We simply have different views of what the desired outcome is, and those in charge of the server evidently feel that rudimentarily playable server is worth more than the controversies of two-boxing. I would have played on a server where groups are available at all times to anyone and class flexibility is much more forgiving, but that's that.

What I wanted to arrive at is the fact that no, boxing was not "voted against" or "strongly opposed" or anything of the sort. The matter had simply been decided upon by those with the authority to decide and thus the efforts of the players were futile. It was nevertheless interesting to see such an impressive difference in the general mentality of the pro- and anti-boxing players, and amusing enough to see some of them taking the launch day population as a basis for such reactionist quotes as: "lol and those retards wanted boxing".

edit


Assuming that the player in question does not have a group readily accessible at most times, which one can guess is usually the reason for people wanting to two-box, two possible scenarios can exist:

1: The shadowknight is alone. He can't play the game as he wants to play it. He can't do much of anything (unless he rolls a magician) and he probably spends most of his time trying to kill low blues with varying success, crafting things noone really wants, exploring on his own, hailing random mobs, looking up quests he might be able to do and so on. If there were always shamans around to accompany the shadowknights of the world, few would bring up such concerns.

2: The shadowknight is allowed to two-box. He can play the game the way he wants to, he can level up and enjoy the majority of the game's content. He can craft, explore or quest with greater success than he could alone. If he did not want to two-box, he wouldn't have to. If the hypothetical superfluous shaman exists, the former player can choose to group with him or he can choose not to. If he does, noone is compromised; if he does not, the latter player still better off than scenario 1 because they can choose to two-box as well.

In all my years playing and two-boxing Everquest, of all the boxers I've known, there has been a tiny, inconsequential fraction of them who staunchly refused to group with others. They are also the players who, if not allowed to two-box, are soloing in some remote corner of the world in the company of their fire pet, or not playing at all. The rest of us just enjoy the game more when playing two characters, whether because we don't have to spend so much time doing nothing, or because the primitive nature of Everquest's classes simply does not entertain us in singularum.

[Lelroni]

I played Everquest around boxing. A bud of mine would 3 box, I'd 2 box, we would kill things without having to wait for friends or some specific class to be LFG. It was fun, I'm not saying we 2 box'd characters 24/7, but if we weren't raiding or in a real group, we'd two box. I grew up in EQ with it, and wouldn't mind it here. But it works fine without 2 boxing so far on P99 (in my case anyways, I am a mage though..... :X). So whatever the devs/boss man decided is gravy with me.

[Lucrio40]

If you want to see what boxing does to a community on EQEmu go play on PEQ or EZ for a bit.

[xorbier]

Boxing would be a detriment to the community and grouping.

I hope this server never seriously considers it.

[Tallenn]

I really don't see what the point of ressurecting this thread was...

This is from someone that's in favor of boxing, but knows when to cut his losses. Seriously, it's not going to change; let it go.

[Haynar]

A jerk is a jerk, whether they are allowed to box or not.

It is those kind of people who are a detriment to the community.

Cheaters and exploiters are what ruins servers. Boxers do not ruin servers.

Haynar

[Haynar]

Boxing would be a detriment to the community and grouping.

I hope this server never seriously considers it.
IP exemptions to allow multiple people from the same house to play together, is also a detriment to grouping and the community.

Why should I group or participate in the community, if I have 2 or 3 people who live with me, and I can play with them all the time.

Haynar

[azeth]

IP exemptions to allow multiple people from the same house to play together, is also a detriment to grouping and the community.

Why should I group or participate in the community, if I have 2 or 3 people who live with me, and I can play with them all the time.

Haynar

touché salesman, touché


kash and i don't group with anyone outside the household or Darkwind.

[Haynar]

touché salesman, touché


kash and i don't group with anyone outside the household or Darkwind.
I like to group with guildies. I try to stick with people who I know how they are going to behave.

Haynar

[h0tr0d (shaere)]

NO BOXING jesus.

[xorbier]

IP exemptions to allow multiple people from the same house to play together, is also a detriment to grouping and the community.

Why should I group or participate in the community, if I have 2 or 3 people who live with me, and I can play with them all the time.

Haynar

I agree with you that cheaters and exploiters ruin the community. Of course.

People that box tend to be anti social in game and do not group because they have an advantage over a solo player for exp and loot. Eventually this turns into more and more people boxing to complete with one another which ultimately causes a surplus in items (no novelty for certain rare items) and an inflation of pp (due to farming pp) and ultimately the community suffers from it.

As for couples or roommates playing together that is fine. Most of the time they will group with others anyways and usually involve others. Boxers tend to form duos that don't require any other assistance.

[Enderenter]

It's not quite that much. You're assuming that half of the people normally on the server (+/- population change after the policy is altered) will 2box if it's allowed.

I really don't think it's that high (i'd generously grant 35%). There are far more casuals on p1999 than most know about...

A few problems with this.

1. There would (theoretically) be no fee or extra cost to box on here were it legal.
2. Most people these days have access to computers that can run multiple clients (back in '99, far fewer people could)
3. People who box do tend to be more "hardcore" players as opposed to casual, but that also means that those who box usually play a lot more EQ than those who don't (generalizing here, but it seems like a fair generalization).

[Eaton]

These are my feelings on this. As you can see you have people going omg it helps the server or omg it ruins the server blah blah blah. You can sit here and go back and forth all day. The bottom line is "Boxing" is "Illegal" on this server and you are not "allowed" to box. But.... I can guarantee you that there are people boxing as we speak and there always will be people boxing weather you like it or not. If someone wants to box badly enough they will find a way to make it happen. One easy way is the stupid "IP exemption" given out. Also different IP's and account names will allow you to box. The point that I guess I am trying to make is that it's happening right now weather you like it or not but only a few are able to "take advantage" of it. Others are either to scared to risk the chance of being banned or simply don't even know how to get around it. So leave it how it is which I'm sure that's what is going to happen or drop the IP block and allow everyone to choose what they would like to do. Keep in mind this is supposed to be a "classic" server that's why everyone came to play on it in the first place. All the other emu servers don't claim to be classic that is why boxing has "ruined" it. No one here is trying to ruin this "classic" server.

p.s.
Boxing is classic and this is supposed to be a "classic" server. It did not ruin it in live so it would not ruin it now. I am not for it nor against it. I am neutral do whatever you want =)

-Eaton Ualive

[Taluvill]

I cant believe this is still being debated

[baub]

boxing is pretty lame atm, why does mayweather keep ducking pacquiao? this is like the only fight im interested in seeing

gogo mma

[thxer]

James Toney gonna get his lights choked out.

[zianlo1]

I understand why its banned here, so I dont even bother trying. However, Ive also convinced my g/f to try and play, but that was almost a week ago that I petitioned for that ip exemption.

I play classes that can easily solo (necro/druid) but soloing is boring. I have issues finding a group at times cuz of when I play, late at night, early morning, due to a 3rd shift work schedule. I dont want to play on PEQ or any other server that includes SoL or later exspansions because I hated all of them; even though SoL would not have been so bad had the bazaar or nexus not been implemented.

Anyways, my viewpoint changes as my needs change. Im for boxing when the population is low. Soloing blues is boring as shit. Adding a support class to divide my attention between the two while pulling yellows or evens would be much more entertaining. When the population is high and its easier to find a group, then there is no need to be boxing.

Ive logged in about 4 times in the last week, if I cant find a group with in 15-20 minutes, I just log off and dont play. I play MMOs for the massive multiplayer experience....Not the massive world of soloing. I can do that on my 360 or ps3 with any of the random console RPGs out there.

Most likely, I will play alot more with my woman once the ip exemption has gone through, and even more most likely is that Ill start donating my 15 bucks a month to p99 per account like a regular subscription, since I quit EQ2 a month or so after SF launched.

[HeallunRumblebelly]

NO BOXING jesus.

http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg287/Ozanam/jesus_with_boxing_gloves.jpg

I'm just throwin it out there D=

edit: He looks like he's doing a chest bump for much respect ^_~

[MrSquirrelbane]

I've always enjoyed multi-boxing. If for no other reason than the challenge. On live (Kunark/Velious mostly) I leveled several friend's characters for them and would often box monk druid ench, or monk rog shm (hi2u carpel tunnel, that part sucked, worse than playing a bard). Once those chars got 60 I used them to camp things. Got my chardok pipe for my whistling fists myself using shm monk ench. Didn't have to bother guildies to go to that annoying ass zone, which was nice.

With that said I fully understand and have no problem with the rules here on P99. I think they're a good thing and really help this server maintain a community. If I wanna box and multitask like crazy I'll go play my six box group on EZ server.

I could see having a max of two boxes allowed, but that can still break some things (Mage/cleric, in kunark shm and monk/sk is insane) In my opinion keep this server no-boxing please. Its more fun that way :D

[Humerox]

...Boxers do not ruin servers.

Maybe not. But they do ruin communities. One argument that comes to mind is once boxing is allowed, anyone who wants to compete MUST box. I don't think I need to expound on that.

The community here has grown quite well. There's no stagnation, and all boxing will do is make it harder for people to group. Sure, you can argue that it's not going to happen, but visit any EQEMU server that allows boxing and see what you find.

The formula for success here has worked. Changing something so vital to the foundation of community on the server can only lead to decline.

EDIT: I start and restart alts all the time. The only alts I have where I find any trouble at all finding groups are in the 30ish range. However, when I do have trouble finding a group, I play another alt, tradeskill, grind plat...something. It ain't all about the leveling. There's always something to do.

[Noleafclover]

Maybe not. But they do ruin communities. One argument that comes to mind is once boxing is allowed, anyone who wants to compete MUST box. I don't think I need to expound on that.

The community here has grown quite well. There's no stagnation, and all boxing will do is make it harder for people to group. Sure, you can argue that it's not going to happen, but visit any EQEMU server that allows boxing and see what you find.

This and this. I haven't played on live, but I wouldn't be surprised if the mercenary feature contributed significantly to players quitting - it seems like you give people the option to do things by themselves, they will do it to compete - - - and then realize the community's gone and quit. Boxing/mercenaries seem the temporary solutions of dying games.

Interestingly, saw 5 afk-scripters get banned tonight, and I think I might have seen some boxers in kedge. I can't be certain, but both leave a bad taste in my mouth.

[Tseng]

I understand why its banned here, so I dont even bother trying. However, Ive also convinced my g/f to try and play, but that was almost a week ago that I petitioned for that ip exemption.

I play classes that can easily solo (necro/druid) but soloing is boring. I have issues finding a group at times cuz of when I play, late at night, early morning, due to a 3rd shift work schedule. I dont want to play on PEQ or any other server that includes SoL or later exspansions because I hated all of them; even though SoL would not have been so bad had the bazaar or nexus not been implemented.

Anyways, my viewpoint changes as my needs change. Im for boxing when the population is low. Soloing blues is boring as shit. Adding a support class to divide my attention between the two while pulling yellows or evens would be much more entertaining. When the population is high and its easier to find a group, then there is no need to be boxing.

Ive logged in about 4 times in the last week, if I cant find a group with in 15-20 minutes, I just log off and dont play. I play MMOs for the massive multiplayer experience....Not the massive world of soloing. I can do that on my 360 or ps3 with any of the random console RPGs out there.

Most likely, I will play alot more with my woman once the ip exemption has gone through, and even more most likely is that Ill start donating my 15 bucks a month to p99 per account like a regular subscription, since I quit EQ2 a month or so after SF launched.

I disagree that it's hard to find groups at that time. To me, if anything, it's easier because during peak times everything is already camped and they already got people waiting to take spots.

[Volga]

Boxing would make things like item/money transfers between main/alts easier and safer but I'd be very happy to trade that off if shared banking was enabled.

[RKromwell]

I would turn into an Alt-ohaulic if shared banking worked...

[abbadox]

My son and I play on a consistent basis on this server. I have tried ProjectEQ with multi boxing up to where my PC could handle it. However, I found that it was extremly difficult to find groups, let alone anyone in specific leveling zones. ProjectEQ SUCKS big time compared to what we have on P99. I support the developers in what they wish for the server.

If they wish to see only family accounts with exemption then so be it. I don't want to see this good server screwed with and become dead by 2 boxing players. If they want to box --- have them goto Project EQ. Let them see what the boxing is like there. And how dead it is.

[Overcast]

Ive watched lots of SK's kiting. Not to say you don't have a complaint (xp penalty kind of sucks) but try being a rogue/warrior/ranger/monk/paladin right now.

I can kite fine on my SK - but maybe I do it different.

Snare the mob, then disease cloud to get it mad. Agro kite it around for a bit - keeping darkness on it the whole time, since it's really where most of the damage is coming from; that and the pet.

I continue to agro kite for a while, then just tank it. Sometimes I'll fear kite if I have the room, otherwise agro kiting works great.

If you plan out the area ok - you can agro kite for a bit, then re-darkness and fear...

But *on topic*

Boxing... hmm. If it was to work, the OP's suggestion would be the way - only two. But I would propose they STILL have to post to get an exemption with the understanding they only can box 2 characters.

Just in case a LEGIT family/friend group of 3+ want to play.

2 boxing wouldn't 'kill' the server I guess. Although with two characters, I guess I'd never need a group. Personally, I'd still play one, unless I was 'boxing' the wife's toon to keep her leveled I guess.

[hueylewis187]

If boxing is allowed even 2.

The server is done. Why would they do this?

EVERYONE WOULD BOX and more would get 3 than 4 than 5 than 6 than 7,.
Don't need exemptions to box with wifi in most places and other ways that I won't mention because it will give people ideas.

[Arclanz]

If you are going to leave in powerleveling and twinking, why rule out boxing? All three are cheating and all three are counterproductive to grouping. If grouping is the big goal then powerleveling especially should be illegal; and this server has a shitload of it going on.

I played regularly from 1999 til LDON. Around LDON I wanted my paladin main to catch up to my cleric. After that I boxed a while and in fact invited a lot of players to join me. Boxing enabled me to form groups that would not have otherwise formed. And if a cleric did join the group then I'd always log my cleric off.

[Harrison]

Twinking is cheating....lol

[hueylewis187]

Because powerleveling and twinking are not cheating. You still had to earn plat to twink your character. You still had to get to 50 to plvl someone.

Boxing will kill the server. Twinking and plvling will not. Get your ass to the camp first , if you think the plvlers are taking all the best spots. When I plvl I give up the camp all the time to people that are in a normal group. Not every time , but a lot of the time I do.

[Arclanz]

by that logic then as long as I earn plat and level a character to 50; I can do all the boxing I want afterwards?

[Harrison]

That makes no sense. None.

Just give it up. No one is going to change it. Boxing is the primary reason (lack thereof) this server is so successful.

[Teeny]

If boxing is allowed even 2.

The server is done. Why would they do this?


I personally can understand why people don't want boxing, grouping is a PITA, thats fine. Boxing doesn't discourage grouping, boxing makes groups easier to form imo. I do however think this won't be positive until the release of kunark when the world becomes much much bigger so people will be spread out more. With the smaller amount of people the harder it will be overall to get groups. If i was boxing a tank and or a healer, and a dps was LFG near me, I'd snatch them up in a sec because killing faster would = more xp for me.

Efficiency is ALL that matters when leveling. The only real people it would affect negatively IMO is solo'ers. I've grouped up a few times with other necros, druids etc etc so we could kill more efficiently, but with the ability to two box, that would probably never happen, but hey, I can solo for better xp than 90 % of the people that play so who cares?

People are against boxing mostly because they themselves can't do it. Saying that boxing is anti-classic is an outright lie, everyone boxed back then, I played my friends toon while he was at school along side mine while leveling in live, both in and out of groups. What boxing will do, effectively double the population *albeit not truely doubling it* it will also attract alot of the people who didn't come to play here who play weird hours. I usually play in the middle of the night, so I couldn't pick a group class, I was stuck picking a necro, because I needed the ability to solo because no one groups ta that hour of night and if they did they were not my level. Now that I'm 50 and I've started raiding I've noticed that alot of the solo classes are more flakey than any of the other classes simply put because alot of them got honed into their classes because of the time they play and they just didn't enjoy game play.

I disagree with the masses on this one, I do think boxing *2 toons* should be enabled for kunark, the world will become so much bigger that in order to keep enough people to make groups it will almost need to happen. I've had alot of friends who refused to come to this server simply put because they couldn't box, and they didn't want to sit LFG all the time because like one of the above posters said, they only had 30 minutes, and they didn't want to play a solo class.

Classic didn't restrict this, so I will take the stance of a lot of the other whiners on this server, ZOMG YOU COULD BOX IN CLASSIC THIS ISNT CLASSIC ENUF.

Just my 2cp,
Pedro

[Harrison]

Boxing would just make everything camped, harder.

Mage can't solo this camp? 2box it. (when another person would come and group it, solo it, whatever)

It would effectively just make everything a solo camp. It's a ridiculously terrible move and will destroy the server.

PEQ sucks fat dick. You know why? Boxing entire groups.

[nalkin]

If i was boxing a tank and or a healer, and a dps was LFG near me, I'd snatch them up in a sec because killing faster would = more xp for me.


The thing is you wouldn't be in that situation because youd also be boxing a dps class. The server would come to the point where if you wanted to do anything in this game you would HAVE to box, because everyone else was doing it.

Its a free subscription here, so there is nothing to stop someone from boxing 6 chars. Whereas back in live you had to think... is it worth 60 bucks a month to box vs 10 bucks.

It would, without a doubt, ruin this server.

[Arclanz]

...I disagree with the [vocal minority] on this one...

fixed for ya Teeny

/agree Teeny.

Two boxing requires skill and actually playing character(s); powerleveling does not. Two-boxers have formed a lot of groups over the years; powerleveling has never formed a single group.

Hipocracy at its worst.

Do I give a shit if boxing is implemented? No. Do I abhor hipocracy, double-standards, etc.? Yes.

[Teeny]

The thing is you wouldn't be in that situation because youd also be boxing a dps class. The server would come to the point where if you wanted to do anything in this game you would HAVE to box, because everyone else was doing it.

Its a free subscription here, so there is nothing to stop someone from boxing 6 chars. Whereas back in live you had to think... is it worth 60 bucks a month to box vs 10 bucks.

It would, without a doubt, ruin this server.

Ok well why not come inbetween, limit the amount of boxes to two, so that it at least allows people who play at non-peak hours a chance to play some of these group based classes so that the pop on the server isnt like 40% Necros/Mages.

When I say allow boxing, I don't want people to be able to box 6, id rather there be at least a limit on it, because yah boxing 6 would be dumb, boxing two on the other hand wouldn't discourage grouping at all imo.

[HippoNipple]

fixed for ya Teeny

/agree Teeny.

Two boxing requires skill and actually playing character(s); powerleveling does not. Two-boxers have formed a lot of groups over the years; powerleveling has never formed a single group.

Hipocracy at its worst.

Do I give a shit if boxing is implemented? No. Do I abhor hipocracy, double-standards, etc.? Yes.

I understand people saying they want the 2 boxing because they want to play a group class, and their schedule may not permit enough time to find a group every time they log on, but thats something they just need to deal with. It's Everquest and thats how it is. This population is about as healthy as it can be right now as far as enough people playing without it being too overcrowded.

The people that would actually use boxing for good would be small compared to the annoyance of boxing from the hardcore players. The last thing we need is 2 people trying to clear Fear or Hate while boxing when there would be an entire guild wanting the opportunity.

For the few that can only log on for a half hour, guess what Everquest isn't for you, its not an instant gratification game. I understand wishing you had more time or wanting changes made so it can fit your play style but for the rest of the people who can play it more often, it can't change to a boxing game. There are downsides and upsides to both arguments, but the argument against boxing is way more legit and sound as far as the community as a whole.

[HippoNipple]

Ok well why not come inbetween, limit the amount of boxes to two, so that it at least allows people who play at non-peak hours a chance to play some of these group based classes so that the pop on the server isnt like 40% Necros/Mages.

When I say allow boxing, I don't want people to be able to box 6, id rather there be at least a limit on it, because yah boxing 6 would be dumb, boxing two on the other hand wouldn't discourage grouping at all imo.

As I just mentioned above yes that would make sense for the casual player but as soon as boxers got a hold of it, the game would get out of hand as far as open camps. There would be a 50 druid/cleric power leveling some class on every camp levels 1-30. Then the casual players trying to box with two characters that are the same level would be in worse condition then they currently are. This game takes a little time to travel, find groups, and get set up. That is just the way it is, finding groups isn't impossible right now. You should really just try to find the right guild. If you do this you can find people in your range leveling somewhere, and probably get a port to them. It might be hard trying to find a group in the zone you want every time, but you have to be flexible.

[Harrison]

fixed for ya Teeny

/agree Teeny.

Two boxing requires skill and actually playing character(s); powerleveling does not. Two-boxers have formed a lot of groups over the years; powerleveling has never formed a single group.

Hipocracy at its worst.

Do I give a shit if boxing is implemented? No. Do I abhor hipocracy, double-standards, etc.? Yes.

I don't expect someone who can't spell to understand simple logic. So I'll leave it at this for your teeny brains to grasp: P99's success is VERY LARGELY attributed to the fact it does not allow boxing. Boxing will flat-out destroy this server, its community, and sense of adherence to oldschool live.

[Teeny]

I don't expect someone who can't spell to understand simple logic. So I'll leave it at this for your teeny brains to grasp: P99's success is VERY LARGELY attributed to the fact it does not allow boxing. Boxing will flat-out destroy this server, its community, and sense of adherence to oldschool live.

Where is your proof to this statement? I see that all over this post, but you're just floating this idea. This server could have double the population, *not including boxes* if boxing was allowed even at a limited capacity. Just because you think it helps, doesn't mean its true, same can be said for my OPINION. Its an opinion, nothing more, the whole point is to voice our OPINION here. You must watch alot of fox news, your sense for the dramatic is amazing.

I also said, that waiting until kunark to do so would be the smartest, as the population right now wouldn't be able to support 2 boxing, there just wouldn't be enough camps, once kunark is out we will barely be able to fill most of the world then. The population may go up with kunark, I understand, but I do think adding 26 new zones, will stretch people out that much more, causing groups harder to find. This will help that.

What I'm saying is opinion about what I think will happen and nothing more, and what I'd like to see happen. As far as I'm concerned you guys who keep saying that it would ruin classic experience, I think your blind to the fact of how many couples played, how many people two boxed their wifes character in groups, etc etc. Boxing was a monstrous part of EQ live.

[quellren]

Boxing would just make everything camped, harder.

Mage can't solo this camp? 2box it. (when another person would come and group it, solo it, whatever)

It would effectively just make everything a solo camp. It's a ridiculously terrible move and will destroy the server.

PEQ sucks fat dick. You know why? Boxing entire groups.

PEQ may have its issues regarding multi-boxing but it's hardly going to destroy a server. At least with my insta-group I can see content and don't spend my life waiting on the table scraps of the poopsockers.
Let me ask you which is more of a crime:
some guy 6-boxing and farming a spawn (who might very well drop a bot to add you to the group)
OR
a necro (wearing an SMR) solo camping Magi. This necro just happened to have a druid 'friend who is AFK' hidden in the corner, who was green to me.
I actually saw this with my own eyes not terribly long ago.
I'll give him the benefit of the doubt, and say it was simply an asshole place to PL someone. Either way, it's one guy locking down a highly sought after spawn and also has the ability to pass LORE loot to an on-site mule. So not only does this necro prevent me ( and the rest of a party) from exp'ing and getting loot, but since he already has an SMR, and he PL is a druid, he's just gonna inflate the economy by demanding a huge amount of pp for it to buy that druid a manastone. (which is probably only being made as a guild taxi)
The cynic in me says that when he's tired, he's just gonna silently pass off that camp to his guildie and the cycle is unbroken.

The way I see it, it doesn't matter whether you forbid boxing, or allow a whole freaking raid force from one PC. Unless you're in one of the 5-6 superguilds, just get comfy in your banded/bronze/SolRo quest armor, or learn to farm a pile of plat to buy that SMR.
Once Kunark hits, a good portion of the sought-after gear will simply be mediocre and not worth camping anymore.
At least as boxer I *could* join a party or raid by choosing the needed tool for the job out of my squad and not sit in perpetuity with the LFG tag on my name.

[HippoNipple]

PEQ may have its issues regarding multi-boxing but it's hardly going to destroy a server. At least with my insta-group I can see content and don't spend my life waiting on the table scraps of the poopsockers.
Let me ask you which is more of a crime:
some guy 6-boxing and farming a spawn (who might very well drop a bot to add you to the group)
OR
a necro (wearing an SMR) solo camping Magi. This necro just happened to have a druid 'friend who is AFK' hidden in the corner, who was green to me.
I actually saw this with my own eyes not terribly long ago.
I'll give him the benefit of the doubt, and say it was simply an asshole place to PL someone. Either way, it's one guy locking down a highly sought after spawn and also has the ability to pass LORE loot to an on-site mule. So not only does this necro prevent me ( and the rest of a party) from exp'ing and getting loot, but since he already has an SMR, and he PL is a druid, he's just gonna inflate the economy by demanding a huge amount of pp for it to buy that druid a manastone. (which is probably only being made as a guild taxi)
The cynic in me says that when he's tired, he's just gonna silently pass off that camp to his guildie and the cycle is unbroken.

The way I see it, it doesn't matter whether you forbid boxing, or allow a whole freaking raid force from one PC. Unless you're in one of the 5-6 superguilds, just get comfy in your banded/bronze/SolRo quest armor, or learn to farm a pile of plat to buy that SMR.
Once Kunark hits, a good portion of the sought-after gear will simply be mediocre and not worth camping anymore.
At least as boxer I *could* join a party or raid by choosing the needed tool for the job out of my squad and not sit in perpetuity with the LFG tag on my name.

Why would boxing make this better? Then the necro with the SMR will just have 3 mules camped there afk. At least you can go get him banned right now for boxing. If the necro was forced to only have 1 character logged in he would leave since he has the smr, and the camp would be yours.

[Humerox]

Where is your proof to this statement?

The proof is is the pudding, so to speak. P99 is THE most successful EQEMU server, ever. PEQ's population always hovers in the 300's it seems - at peak - and that population includes all the boxed accounts. And there's nothing really wrong with PEQ...except for the ability to attract new players...and I think boxing has a LOT to do with that.

I've also said once boxing is allowed, it becomes required in order to compete. MOTD: Bring your boxed "whatever" to the next raid, because we have more important things to worry about with the availability our live players.

This becomes even more true through Kunark and Velious, with the increased difficulty of encounters.

All in all, if it ain't broke...why fix it? The population continues to grow, we are nearing 1000+ at peak. I remember the days we were hollering at each other every time it broke 200. Which really wasn't all that long ago...six or seven months, maybe. When Kunark releases, I'll bet we more than double our current peak.

[Teeny]

The proof is is the pudding, so to speak. P99 is THE most successful EQEMU server, ever. PEQ's population always hovers in the 300's it seems - at peak - and that population includes all the boxed accounts. And there's nothing really wrong with PEQ...except for the ability to attract new players...and I think boxing has a LOT to do with that.

I've also said once boxing is allowed, it becomes required in order to compete. MOTD: Bring your boxed "whatever" to the next raid, because we have more important things to worry about with the availability our live players.

This becomes even more true through Kunark and Velious, with the increased difficulty of encounters.

All in all, if it ain't broke...why fix it? The population continues to grow, we are nearing 1000+ at peak. I remember the days we were hollering at each other every time it broke 200. Which really wasn't all that long ago...six or seven months, maybe. When Kunark releases, I'll bet we more than double our current peak.

Just because this is the most popular server has more to do with, the fact of the content moreso than the fact that they disallow boxing. I came back to experience old school gaming, nothing more.

[Humerox]

Just because this is the most popular server has more to do with, the fact of the content moreso than the fact that they disallow boxing

Prove it. :D

It goes back to what I said before. It ain't broke, and why fiddle with success? If boxing were allowed, I'd quit...period. I'm sure a lot of others feel that way, too.

[Teeny]

Prove it. :D

It goes back to what I said before. It ain't broke, and why fiddle with success? If boxing were allowed, I'd quit...period. I'm sure a lot of others feel that way, too.

It is allowed, do you know how many people have "wives" or "roomates" on this server? Just because its masked, and a bunch of us, would rather not risk our account on doing something that isn't allowed. Rather than putting in for an IP exemption, I voice my opinion here, trying to argue for it.

I don't know how you want me to prove it? To whine on the forums and threaten to quit like your crowd? I don't need to do that, unlike you guys who will quit on a whim, I like this server and whether or not I get my way I'll continue to play.

[Humerox]

I don't know how you want me to prove it? To whine on the forums and threaten to quit like your crowd? I don't need to do that, unlike you guys who will quit on a whim, I like this server and whether or not I get my way I'll continue to play.


Lol...wtf you starting a flame? I'm not whining, I simply said why screw with success? If I were to quit on a whim, I'd have quit back when I couldn't find a group because no one was on the damn server. I happen to love the server...most people know that. I..and most others... believe boxing would kill it. Keep it civil there, pup.

[Teeny]

Prove it. :D

It goes back to what I said before. It ain't broke, and why fiddle with success? If boxing were allowed, I'd quit...period. I'm sure a lot of others feel that way, too.

You said if x happens, youd quit. Flame war? I stated my point and you guys keep stating the same points you've said since the inception of this server. I'm simply posting my opinion, and you know what they say about opinions?

*edit*
Not only that, you can fiddle with things that will make it even more of a success. It will bring a wider audience of people here.

[Humerox]

Yeah, and that's not a whim, nor a threat. I believe boxing is THAT detrimental to server health. You're confusing threat with statement of fact, and a threat is only a threat if someone gives a shit...which I don't think 98% of the game population does. I'm just stating what I'd do, lol.

**edit**

I guess we can agree to disagree. The only thing I hinge my opinion on is the fact that P99 doesn't allow boxing, which may not be the ONLY factor in its success...but it's a factor I believe plays a large part. Changing boxing rules wouldn't be "fiddling" anyway, it's a fundamental construct of P99.

[Harrison]

It is allowed, do you know how many people have "wives" or "roomates" on this server? Just because its masked, and a bunch of us, would rather not risk our account on doing something that isn't allowed. Rather than putting in for an IP exemption, I voice my opinion here, trying to argue for it.

I don't know how you want me to prove it? To whine on the forums and threaten to quit like your crowd? I don't need to do that, unlike you guys who will quit on a whim, I like this server and whether or not I get my way I'll continue to play.

The reports of mass boxing are greatly exaggerated by terrible and consequently, stupid players.

[Teeny]

The reports of mass boxing are greatly exaggerated by terrible and consequently, stupid players.

And yet again, Can we just agree to disagree? Did i ever call you stupid? I simply stated a point that I see people boxing all the time, and yet that makes me stupid according to you. Harrison all of your posts are one liners trying to insult people. Its all good though, :).

[quellren]

Why would boxing make this better? Then the necro with the SMR will just have 3 mules camped there afk. At least you can go get him banned right now for boxing. If the necro was forced to only have 1 character logged in he would leave since he has the smr, and the camp would be yours.

I never said boxing would improve the situation. It just won't make it dramatically worse like everyone seems to think. Whats the difference between a necro solo camping it and passing the loot to an AFK friend, or blatantly standing up a party to go camp the thing? In neither situation do *I* get my turn. The other option is just log/port/gate the alt out and bring in a new 'AFK friend'.

And we both know that as soon as he's done, the already broken spawn will just go to a guildmember or friend for their PL train.

It seems to me the ones screaming anti-box the loudest are the ones that play the premier solo classes. I'd love to hear a warrior weigh in and tell me he wouldn't want the ability to have a pocket healer. Maybe there wouldn't be such a shortage of warriors then.

So we're clear, I *DO NOT* support allowing 6-boxing. I think that 2-boxing is plenty and would resolve several of the grouping issues suffered by the majority of classes playing casually. Hell, I don't even 6-box on PEQ, I duo or trio.

[Humerox]

I play both a rogue and cleric, too. AND am hugely anti-box.

:)

[HippoNipple]

Just because this is the most popular server has more to do with, the fact of the content moreso than the fact that they disallow boxing. I came back to experience old school gaming, nothing more.

My calculations show that 25% of the population came because of no boxing, 20% came for the classic server, and the remaining 55% hardcore players are here because the server has weak system requirements and they are unemployed playing in their mothers basement.

[Humerox]

My calculations show that 25% of the population came because of no boxing, 20% came for the classic server, and the remaining 55% hardcore players are here because the server has weak system requirements and they are unemployed playing in their mothers basement.

QUOTE OF THE DAY!! Rotflmao....

[Itchybottom]

they are unemployed playing in their mothers basement.

Trailers do not have basements, man.

[wrxBRAH]

I understand people saying they want the 2 boxing because they want to play a group class, and their schedule may not permit enough time to find a group every time they log on, but thats something they just need to deal with. It's Everquest and thats how it is. This population is about as healthy as it can be right now as far as enough people playing without it being too overcrowded.

The people that would actually use boxing for good would be small compared to the annoyance of boxing from the hardcore players. The last thing we need is 2 people trying to clear Fear or Hate while boxing when there would be an entire guild wanting the opportunity.

For the few that can only log on for a half hour, guess what Everquest isn't for you, its not an instant gratification game. I understand wishing you had more time or wanting changes made so it can fit your play style but for the rest of the people who can play it more often, it can't change to a boxing game. There are downsides and upsides to both arguments, but the argument against boxing is way more legit and sound as far as the community as a whole.

Are you seriously that selfish? Just because you enjoy playing your classic one way doesnt mean everyone else has to share your style of play. Because I dont have 5hrs to spend nightly lfg or play a class thats group oriented, I have to take 3 years to get to level 50? Get off your high horse.

The proof is is the pudding, so to speak. P99 is THE most successful EQEMU server, ever. PEQ's population always hovers in the 300's it seems - at peak - and that population includes all the boxed accounts. And there's nothing really wrong with PEQ...except for the ability to attract new players...and I think boxing has a LOT to do with that.

I've also said once boxing is allowed, it becomes required in order to compete. MOTD: Bring your boxed "whatever" to the next raid, because we have more important things to worry about with the availability our live players.

This becomes even more true through Kunark and Velious, with the increased difficulty of encounters.

All in all, if it ain't broke...why fix it? The population continues to grow, we are nearing 1000+ at peak. I remember the days we were hollering at each other every time it broke 200. Which really wasn't all that long ago...six or seven months, maybe. When Kunark releases, I'll bet we more than double our current peak.

P99 is the most succesful server because Rogean did a damn good job of advertising it on other forums and believe it or not most old school eqers prefer pve to pvp and want to have that nostalgic feeling. Playing on this server is your best chance at getting that.

The anti boxers are unwilling to compromise (threats to quit) whereas the boxing crowd will continue to follow the server rules and play but keep pushing the boxing topic.

[Humerox]

Are you seriously that selfish? Just because you enjoy playing your classic one way doesnt mean everyone else has to share your style of play. Because I dont have 5hrs to spend nightly lfg or play a class thats group oriented, I have to take 3 years to get to level 50? Get off your high horse.



P99 is the most succesful server because Rogean did a damn good job of advertising it on other forums and believe it or not most old school eqers prefer pve to pvp and want to have that nostalgic feeling. Playing on this server is your best chance at getting that.

The anti boxers are unwilling to compromise (threats to quit) whereas the boxing crowd will continue to follow the server rules and play but keep pushing the boxing topic.

It's not about selfishness brah. My classic means finding others to play with.The boxing crowd can play by themselves when there's no one around. Also, like I said before, quitting is only a threat when it means something...which it doesn't. No one except me gives a shit whether I play or not.

Boxing only reduces dependence on community. I play alts all across the spectrum, and when I have trouble finding a group on one, I go to another. Make more friends, for god's sake, lol.

You won't change my mind about it being detrimental to server health. It's soloing on steroids.

[wrxBRAH]

It's not about selfishness brah. My classic means finding others to play with.The boxing crowd can play by themselves when there's no one around. Also, like I said before, quitting is only a threat when it means something...which it doesn't. No one except me gives a shit whether I play or not.

Boxing only reduces dependence on community. I play alts all across the spectrum, and when I have trouble finding a group on one, I go to another. Make more friends, for god's sake, lol.

You won't change my mind about it being detrimental to server health. It's soloing on steroids.

When you join a high end guild/raiding guild, your dependence on anyone outside that guild is very low and in some humongous guilds, its next to none.

Perhaps we should limit guild sizes to 12 as well? Ok shitty example but come on just because boxing is available doesnt mean everyone is going to start boxing.

I could box because I have an ip exemption for my brother but I dont. I see a ton of other people boxing as Im leveling and it doesnt bother me one bit. There are plenty of mobs/camps to go around. I think people overreact when it comes to boxing a bit because of what happened in later expansions.

[pinedepain]

To reduce the 2-boxers population, one idea (out of many I guess), would be to only allow one MAC adress per IP.

But I think no code lines in the EQClient send the MAC adress to the server. So It's fucked up :D. So, the next solution would be the following :

- Create a lilttle program (in Java to avoid any OS compatibility issues) with a login/password/connection-button layout. Log in this new program with your account informations then launch EQ. If the server recognize that you're already logged with your little MAC program, then it allows you to log in, if not, it kicks you.

Considering that your "wife" plays on another comp, this tricks wouldn't annoy the playing experience at all for anyone (except for 2-boxers).

Of course, you could bypass this if you have 2 comp or with many other solutions I won't give here for the sanity of this thread hehe :D.

In anyway, I think it would reduce (maybe greatly?) the 2-boxers population.

What does the dev team think about this?

[Itchybottom]

To reduce the 2-boxers population, one idea (out of many I guess), would be to only allow one MAC adress per IP.

But I think no code lines in the EQClient send the MAC adress to the server. So It's fucked up :D. So, the next solution would be the following :

- Create a lilttle program (in Java to avoid any OS compatibility issues) with a login/password/connection-button layout. Log in this new program with your account informations then launch EQ. If the server recognize that you're already logged with your little MAC program, then it allows you to log in, if not, it kicks you.

Considering that your "wife" plays on another comp, this tricks wouldn't annoy the playing experience at all for anyone (except for 2-boxers).

Of course, you could bypass this if you have 2 comp or with many other solutions I won't give here for the sanity of this thread hehe :D.

In anyway, I think it would reduce (maybe greatly?) the 2-boxers population.

What does the dev team think about this?

So wait, you think all routers send MAC address over the wire?

[pinedepain]

not the routers, but the computers. They would send their ethernet/wifi card mac adress.

For exemple on Linux you can see them using the following command :
ifconfig | egrep HW | tr -s ' ' | cut -d ' ' -f 1,5

[Itchybottom]

not the routers, but the computers. They would send their ethernet/wifi card mac adress.

For exemple on Linux you can see them using the following command : ifconfig | egrep HW

And what about people running EverQuest in a virtual machine? You can also spoof your MAC address per outbound connection without much modification to ipfw or iptables scripts. In windows, you could run a registry import to fake it, too. It's just exported from the registry entry to userland as a WMI link. It's not uncommon for people to have multiple computers, either.

I think the idea of third-party tools to play on Project1999 has been discussed and denied. One would have to make it opensource, for trust sake, which leads to easier methodology of defeating it.

And not to nitpick, but you really don't need full regex for that ifconfig line (or any at all), grep would have been fine and a better cross-platform example.

[pinedepain]

And what about people running EverQuest in a virtual machine? You can also spoof your MAC address per outbound connection without much modification to ipfw or iptables scripts. In windows, you could run a registry import to fake it, too. It's just exported from the registry entry to userland as a WMI link. It's not uncommon for people to have multiple computers, either.

I think the idea of third-party tools to play on Project1999 has been discussed and denied. One would have to make it opensource, for trust sake, which leads to easier methodology of defeating it.

And not to nitpick, but you really don't need full regex for that ifconfig line (or any at all), grep would have been fine and a better cross-platform example.


Wow, sorry not to be an expert in regex, lol, It seems I offended you! But please, feel free to show me a simple regex line to output the mac adress, It interests me. (Truly)

Anyway, I think discussing the 2-boxing thing do not lead to anything if devs don't want to introduce a 3rd party soft and want to keep the current rule. Because : what can we do to change things if we can't change anything?

PS : As I said in my first post, there are many ways to bypass this.

[Bones]

just because boxing is available doesnt mean everyone is going to start boxing.
Why not?

[KnuckleSangwich]

Why not?

Because many people like myself hate boxing even if I have the option. It is distracting to me and takes the fun out of playing my main character.

Just something I prefer not to do. I'd rather solo and be fully focused or group with real people and socialize a bit.

[yaeger]

Boxing only reduces dependence on community.

This is all that needs to be said. Nurturing a strong community will make new players continue to play on the server and keep it going strong.

Community > ease of play.

[wrxBRAH]

Why not?

because the people that dont like boxing wont?

[Haynar]

I hate socializing online.

I get on EQ to kill shit. That is all.

Less talking. More killing.

My time is limited. So if I get on and play, I play on a different server because I am not welcome to box here.

This thread was my point to make when I posted it months and months ago.

I opened it. Now I am closing.

The topic is no longer open for discussion (at least by me, and I am tired of the trolls shitting all over my thread).

I have spoken.

Haynar