To the R99 Staff and Players -

[Sirken]

I'm not going to post in 7 different threads that are already filled up with crap, arguments, and opinions from people that have no idea what they are talking about, or are trying to get the rules crafted to better suit their play style. Here's just a couple things I’ve noticed over my years on the VZTZ server, feel free to flame, argue, disagree, etc. im not gonna go tit for tat with you guys, because, well you know what they say about opinions.



As far as PvP deaths – I have played item loot (VZ EQLive) and I have been a GM during item loot. While it’s fun, there will be players that use this to grief people off the server. Yes I understand that its as easy as /q’ing out and waiting, as opposed to running back, looting, and getting ganked again, but I learned long ago not to assume things from the playerbase. Basically item loot will hurt the population, period. XP loss for pvp deaths will be exploited the same way.. just wait til someone goes AFK at their bindspot and is murdered down 6-8 levels, once again this is begging people to quit the server. Coin Loot must stay in the game, if for no other reason that when we go PKing in RL, we do it to take our victims coins (as well as any ATM/Debit cards). It’s a small little satisfaction that doesn’t hurt anyone to the point of rage quitting. But, if people are hell bent on item loot, try it in the very beginning, and do NOT just add it to the server later after it’s been established.

Loot and Scoot (LNS) – Let the community work this out. VZTZ staff tried MANY different variations of LNS rules, and while some worked better than others, they all ultimately failed. After tons of failure, I pulled a couple guild leaders into staff vent, and made them hammer out LnS rules that they both thought were fair, and that could easily be enforced. On live, the server populations were large enough that the community could effectively punish people for being griefing douchebags, however the R99 population may not be as large as live servers were, which means the community would not be able to stop certain guilds from acting any kinda way they wanted. Again, the ONLY time I’ve seen LNS work on emu was when the server’s top guild leaders got together and hammered something out together that they both could agree on (NOTE to staff- by doing this you are able to hold guild leaders and officers responsible for the actions of their members. So if randomplayer001 is caught violating the rules, feel free to suspend guild leadership as well as the original offender. Trust me, Guild leaders will get their members acting right if they can be suspended for the actions of their members).

Zone Plugging – its lame, but, it’s also classic. Imo, just don’t let the guy hit the zone. But real life isn’t that simple, I think if Rogean could indeed add something that forces the player to pop out LD on the other side it would be a superb addition to the R99 server. People were going on about “plugging to avoid YT” well this is true, it’s the least important side effect. People will be plugging mostly to avoid any possible LnS, to ensure that they are not out of the fight. But let’s make sure LD toons don’t go all GOD MODE when in LD form.

Playnice (training, BC, BR, griefing) – Training is retarded, Training is not pvp, Training does not take skill. Any young drunken monkey can train mobs.. hell if u give me 10 min, I’m sure I could teach my dog to train PoF right now. Dear R99 Staff, when u see trains, please use the biggest heaviest banhammer around to crack the needed skulls, I assure you it will help protect the population. As far as BindCamping and BindRushing… well that’s a slippery slope pals. I used to think BC/BR wasn’t a big deal either, and then I watched a guild vs guild fight for zone control over lady vox. GuildA was getting slaughtered by GuildB, however GuildA just kept bindrushing the fight for HOURS. GuildB was forced to repeatedly kill the same players over and over and over and over again for literally fuckingpullmyhairout hours. GuildB had in my opinion won the fight HOURS before, yet GuildA continued to rush just as a means to prevent GuildB from attempting their mob. THAT is not PvP, that’s just bindrushing. We tried a lot of ways to prevent BR/BC on VZTZ, however if a GM wasn’t on, a player would usually try to later lawyer the rules around to justify his or his guildies’ actions. I strongly suggest that the best way to deal with BC/BR is to not make a rule against it per say, but to make a rule stating that “any actions deemed detrimental to the server, it’s population of players and/or staff, are always considered against the rules and will result in your account being banned from the server” this will allow you to take each one on a case by case basis so the GM can see if the sketchy actions were actually warranted (recently killed players will try to bait and try to lure their killers into re-attacking them simply to petition that player for BCing, in hopes to get him banned).

PvP level Range – Well I think +/- 8 levels is perfect, and if Rogean can add that system he was describing, it sounds like nobody will have to worry about immy healing (which btw, was a very real and viable tactic used by dirty crossteamers on EQLive Vallon Zek (and I assume Tallon Zek). On A Side Note, if its possible to remove the pvp level range around Dragons and highly contested raid mobs, I strongly suggest doing so. The reason for this is because as GuildA preps for Supermob001, GuildB will either send a level 1 cleric to DA train OR GuildB will send a level 1 Rogue to spy on GuildA and watch them. This happened all the time on VZTZ.

Global OOC / Yellow Text – Global OOC is/was/will be a bad idea, just as it was on VZTZ. I know a lot of people “play for the ooc” but imo, that’s not how u play EQ, and the rest of the server generally doesn’t give a shit, sorry pals, take it to tells, or, grow a pair of balls and go to the zone with your enemies and talk shit to them in the zone. Global OOC had to be turned off LOTSA times for various reasons (garbage content, extreme spam to try and crash the players, etc), Furthermore there were quite a few players on VZTZ that had their OOC privileges revoked. ATTN PLAYERS, remember OOC is like a drivers license, IT’S A PRIVLEGE, NOT A RIGHT. As far as Yellow Text goes – firstly STAFF, you WANT to be able to see zone wide yellow text so you know exactly when and where PvP is popping off, and exactly where to go and who to watch at a moment’s notice. As far as Yellow Text for players, yes.

Punishment – just make it count. Over on VZTZ we did lots of suspensions and we did a lot of bans. Suspensions and Bans didn’t matter because on VZTZ all u needed was a new IP address and u could level a new account to 60 in a week.



P.S. - Lastly, keep the XP exactly like p99. Mid level pvp is FUN and it didn’t exist on VZTZ, but furthermore, bans will mean A LOT more when it takes months to get to 60, when it takes more months to get that uber item.

And last for real, don’t let these players troll you guys into making bad decisions, they are very good at what they do (see: ninja trolls), and they will try to get you to make certain changes under false pretenses or with ulterior motives in mind.

<3
Sirks


TL;DR – Sirken acting all knowledgeable... again

[hagard]

Sirken ! hope to see you around red99 in some form

[God-King Abacab]

Sirken drunk on power

[Smedy]

Pretty much sums up all my opinions :)

[Harrison]

I'm not going to post in 7 different threads that are already filled up with crap, arguments, and opinions from people that have no idea what they are talking about, or are trying to get the rules crafted to better suit their play style. Here's just a couple things I’ve noticed over my years on the VZTZ server, feel free to flame, argue, disagree, etc. im not gonna go tit for tat with you guys, because, well you know what they say about opinions.



As far as PvP deaths – I have played item loot (VZ EQLive) and I have been a GM during item loot. While it’s fun, there will be players that use this to grief people off the server. Yes I understand that its as easy as /q’ing out and waiting, as opposed to running back, looting, and getting ganked again, but I learned long ago not to assume things from the playerbase. Basically item loot will hurt the population, period. XP loss for pvp deaths will be exploited the same way.. just wait til someone goes AFK at their bindspot and is murdered down 6-8 levels, once again this is begging people to quit the server. Coin Loot must stay in the game, if for no other reason that when we go PKing in RL, we do it to take our victims coins (as well as any ATM/Debit cards). It’s a small little satisfaction that doesn’t hurt anyone to the point of rage quitting. But, if people are hell bent on item loot, try it in the very beginning, and do NOT just add it to the server later after it’s been established.

Loot and Scoot (LNS) – Let the community work this out. VZTZ staff tried MANY different variations of LNS rules, and while some worked better than others, they all ultimately failed. After tons of failure, I pulled a couple guild leaders into staff vent, and made them hammer out LnS rules that they both thought were fair, and that could easily be enforced. On live, the server populations were large enough that the community could effectively punish people for being griefing douchebags, however the R99 population may not be as large as live servers were, which means the community would not be able to stop certain guilds from acting any kinda way they wanted. Again, the ONLY time I’ve seen LNS work on emu was when the server’s top guild leaders got together and hammered something out together that they both could agree on (NOTE to staff- by doing this you are able to hold guild leaders and officers responsible for the actions of their members. So if randomplayer001 is caught violating the rules, feel free to suspend guild leadership as well as the original offender. Trust me, Guild leaders will get their members acting right if they can be suspended for the actions of their members).

Zone Plugging – its lame, but, it’s also classic. Imo, just don’t let the guy hit the zone. But real life isn’t that simple, I think if Rogean could indeed add something that forces the player to pop out LD on the other side it would be a superb addition to the R99 server. People were going on about “plugging to avoid YT” well this is true, it’s the least important side effect. People will be plugging mostly to avoid any possible LnS, to ensure that they are not out of the fight. But let’s make sure LD toons don’t go all GOD MODE when in LD form.

Playnice (training, BC, BR, griefing) – Training is retarded, Training is not pvp, Training does not take skill. Any young drunken monkey can train mobs.. hell if u give me 10 min, I’m sure I could teach my dog to train PoF right now. Dear R99 Staff, when u see trains, please use the biggest heaviest banhammer around to crack the needed skulls, I assure you it will help protect the population. As far as BindCamping and BindRushing… well that’s a slippery slope pals. I used to think BC/BR wasn’t a big deal either, and then I watched a guild vs guild fight for zone control over lady vox. GuildA was getting slaughtered by GuildB, however GuildA just kept bindrushing the fight for HOURS. GuildB was forced to repeatedly kill the same players over and over and over and over again for literally fuckingpullmyhairout hours. GuildB had in my opinion won the fight HOURS before, yet GuildA continued to rush just as a means to prevent GuildB from attempting their mob. THAT is not PvP, that’s just bindrushing. We tried a lot of ways to prevent BR/BC on VZTZ, however if a GM wasn’t on, a player would usually try to later lawyer the rules around to justify his or his guildies’ actions. I strongly suggest that the best way to deal with BC/BR is to not make a rule against it per say, but to make a rule stating that “any actions deemed detrimental to the server, it’s population of players and/or staff, are always considered against the rules and will result in your account being banned from the server” this will allow you to take each one on a case by case basis so the GM can see if the sketchy actions were actually warranted (recently killed players will try to bait and try to lure their killers into re-attacking them simply to petition that player for BCing, in hopes to get him banned).

PvP level Range – Well I think +/- 8 levels is perfect, and if Rogean can add that system he was describing, it sounds like nobody will have to worry about immy healing (which btw, was a very real and viable tactic used by dirty crossteamers on EQLive Vallon Zek (and I assume Tallon Zek). On A Side Note, if its possible to remove the pvp level range around Dragons and highly contested raid mobs, I strongly suggest doing so. The reason for this is because as GuildA preps for Supermob001, GuildB will either send a level 1 cleric to DA train OR GuildB will send a level 1 Rogue to spy on GuildA and watch them. This happened all the time on VZTZ.

Global OOC / Yellow Text – Global OOC is/was/will be a bad idea, just as it was on VZTZ. I know a lot of people “play for the ooc” but imo, that’s not how u play EQ, and the rest of the server generally doesn’t give a shit, sorry pals, take it to tells, or, grow a pair of balls and go to the zone with your enemies and talk shit to them in the zone. Global OOC had to be turned off LOTSA times for various reasons (garbage content, extreme spam to try and crash the players, etc), Furthermore there were quite a few players on VZTZ that had their OOC privileges revoked. ATTN PLAYERS, remember OOC is like a drivers license, IT’S A PRIVLEGE, NOT A RIGHT. As far as Yellow Text goes – firstly STAFF, you WANT to be able to see zone wide yellow text so you know exactly when and where PvP is popping off, and exactly where to go and who to watch at a moment’s notice. As far as Yellow Text for players (if it’s possible to do this even I’m not sure), if YT is server wide, it will be used to grief… but, if you can keep YT as player visible only as a zone wide feature everyone wins and everyone is happy. (basically GMs see YT server wide, but players see YT as zone wide).

Punishment – just make it count. Over on VZTZ we did lots of suspensions and we did a lot of bans. Suspensions and Bans didn’t matter because on VZTZ all u needed was a new IP address and u could level a new account to 60 in a week.



P.S. - Lastly, keep the XP exactly like p99. Mid level pvp is FUN and it didn’t exist on VZTZ, but furthermore, bans will mean A LOT more when it takes months to get to 60, when it takes more months to get that uber item.

And last for real, don’t let these players troll you guys into making bad decisions, they are very good at what they do (see: ninja trolls), and they will try to get you to make certain changes under false pretenses or with ulterior motives in mind.

<3
Sirks


TL;DR – Sirken acting all knowledgeable... again

Hey, imagine that. The most non-retarded guy out of the bunch is one of the admins.

I don't think this is coincidence. Thanks Sirken for posting.

[Kope]

again

/signed

Nice post man, very thoughtful and well laid out.

[Humerox]

Pretty sure I agreed with all this.

Sirken should be brought on to consult or something.

+1

[Convict]

P.S. - Lastly, keep the XP exactly like p99. Mid level pvp is FUN and it didn’t exist on VZTZ, but furthermore, bans will mean A LOT more when it takes months to get to 60, when it takes more months to get that uber item.

And last for real, don’t let these players troll you guys into making bad decisions, they are very good at what they do (see: ninja trolls), and they will try to get you to make certain changes under false pretenses or with ulterior motives in mind.

TL;DR – Sirken acting all knowledgeable... again
A+++ post. Quoted and Bold for emphasis. Sirken dropping wisdom nukes.

[Knuckle]

Sirken said pretty much everything I feel, except I still feel PVP should have yellowtext serverwide, everyone is overestimating how populated this server will be. Even P99 feels like a ghost town in most zones, red99 will be probably half the pop, and p99 is maybe 30% the pop. of a normal live server during 1999.

The other issue that really needs to be considered is the fact that when copying classic pvp mechanics, you are dealing with a 'non classic' population aware of every trick and abuse to pvp mechanics from back in the day, if you feel that player charming and fearing and that sort of thing makes the game more classic, you will quickly destroy the dreams of a red server. Egg shaped pumice and items of that nature were ok on live because a small minority of players were 'in the know' on how to pvp, and prepare for pvp. Here, the elite comprises of 80% of the population that will be playing.

[mitic]

so sirken, u care so much about pvp to post here a wall of text but care less to keep vztz going?

i do not understand this bro, and where the hell is daxum

[juicedsixfo]

Sirken said pretty much everything I feel, except I still feel PVP should have yellowtext serverwide, everyone is overestimating how populated this server will be.

Fucking drop it already, it's just sad at this point.


Good post Sirken.

[Smedy]

Sirken said pretty much everything I feel, except I still feel PVP should have yellowtext serverwide, everyone is overestimating how populated this server will be. Even P99 feels like a ghost town in most zones, red99 will be probably half the pop, and p99 is maybe 30% the pop. of a normal live server during 1999.

I still think you guys want to penis wave and screenshot yellow texts which really no one but you guys cared about.

Big smedy don't give a flying fuck about either the kill board or the yellow text, i just play the game.

I think yellow text world wide gives away to much information on what's going on inside the zone, since anonymous will work (fucking about time) the killshot information would be a complete give away to "when to zone in cuz guild A and B are fighting"...

I think zone wide yellow text would be nice though, if you're in the zone, you're risking getting killed, which means you should have access to the information given.


The other issue that really needs to be considered is the fact that when copying classic pvp mechanics, you are dealing with a 'non classic' population aware of every trick and abuse to pvp mechanics from back in the day, if you feel that player charming and fearing and that sort of thing makes the game more classic, you will quickly destroy the dreams of a red server. Egg shaped pumice and items of that nature were ok on live because a small minority of players were 'in the know' on how to pvp, and prepare for pvp. Here, the elite comprises of 80% of the population that will be playing.

I tend to agree that some items that were in Classic everquest should be altered for the reason you said. They worked on live simply because people didn't know about them, here everyone will know, and everyone will exploit them to the maximum, which will ruin the game.

Otherwise i'm very anti changing anything, but some stuff like instant cast pumice makes the game shitty.

[Crenshinabon]

If there is coin loot I think it would be awesome to have a vault in EC tunnel. Would make a reason to go there and not get all your coin ganked.

XP loss I also think is pretty decent. If you go afk on a pvp server and your bind point is an easy find, then it really is your own damn fault. And xp is easily replaceable unlike certain items. Its also fun to know that when you kill someone you do fk their leveling up a bit, even at 50 it will be nice to have to go xp a bit after big pvp fights etc. Reason to keep playing imo.

[Bombfist]

So mitic, you care so much about pvp that you left a pvp server to play a blue server to kill dragons on a list, to tell everyone how much you want to pvp, to then hang around the pvp section of a forum to tell a gm of a server to care more about a server that you left. Nobody wanted to keep vz/tz going and that's no fault of sirkens, it's because it was as shithole.

I read half of sirkens post, my attention span is only half the size of my penis, but i mostly agree with him since he was one of the few in the staff that had brain cells.

I like yellow text, it lets the rest of the internet see how much i ruined someones life.

[Envious]

“any actions deemed detrimental to the server, it’s population of players and/or staff, are always considered against the rules and will result in your account being banned from the server”

PvP servers need less GM interaction, not more. This gives GMs open range to interfere as they will. Sirken, sober up before you post this trash.

And last for real, don’t let these players troll you guys into making bad decisions, they are very good at what they do (see: ninja trolls), and they will try to get you to make certain changes under false pretenses or with ulterior motives in mind.

This is truth. Dont let the fags like Macken and Lethdar that are poor PvP'ers, and have zero friends or social skills troll you into babysitting for them. They sow'd the oats, let them reap the rewards.

[juicedsixfo]

PvP servers need less GM interaction, not more. This gives GMs open range to interfere as they will. Sirken, sober up before you post this trash.


I disagree. Don't do things that are detrimental to the server and you won't have anything to worry about.

[Macken]

Sirken was the best gm vztz ever had. Most will agree.

But that doesn't mean he has a clue when it comes to pvp. He even admits it to a certain extent in paragraph 2.

He seems to have done the assignment but didn't learn the lesson.


As Far as PvP deaths: your approach is wrong. You can't keep catering to the guys who aren't pvpr's in the first place. They cry about not being that great at pvp, you dumb it down, they quit anyway. If they were going to stay, they would adapt, improve and come back stronger. If you need to lower the bar for your population, then that's your clue you don't have one.

Loot and Scoot LNS: Sorry Sirken, it's gotta be said. I TOLD YOU SO
I posted this same topic on VZTZ forums about 3 years ago. You could have done it the easy way, but you chose to believe that you knew more than those who had experience. I've said it dozens of times. Staff has no business getting involved in pvp.

Zone Plugging: Some people crash often when they zone. Hopefully, this server is more stable and that won't happen as much. If it does, expect alot of quitting just on this one "fix".

Playnice: Playing nice is for Hello Kitty. You did see that this is supposed to be a pvp server where everyone will be KILLING others right? You sure you are on the right forum? Just the thought of not understanding this shows that despite being the best we had, you have alot to learn about the nature of pvp, it's adherants and their characteristics and behavior. Again, as pertaining to this topic, GMs have no business in pvp in the first place, and always regret getting involved. I knew why, you had to learn why, now spread the wisdom bro.

PvP level range: discouraging pvp, no matter how you do it, on a pvp server is obtuse. Again, you are catering to the players that aren't going to play long anyway. If they were, then they would adapt. Since they don't have it in them to pick themselves up by their own bootstraps, then you doing it for them, won't help. If you don't believe me, try it in real life and get back to me on how it turned out.

Global ooc and YT: Desperately needed to build interest and keep it. Obviously, at some point, if the population rises, you would need to change maybe. Again, the misguided idea, that you are going to somehow "save" everyone is shortsighted and ignorant. You aren't saving anyone, you are just running off people from a pvp server who pvp.

Punishment: exactly.

PS: exactly

[Envious]

I disagree. Don't do things that are detrimental to the server and you won't have anything to worry about.

The entire basis of EQ PvP is detrimental... you spawn with no gear, after losing whatever camp / mob you were at. With a possible hour long run back to where you cant even get your corpse without help all the while possibly dying again...

What game are you wanting to play?

[Envious]

Staff has no business getting involved in pvp. They will continue to do so until someone like me rubs their nose in it so much that they finally quit like you were forced to do.

This is pretty much what I have been saying for a week+ in more than a couple threads.

[juicedsixfo]

The entire basis of EQ PvP is detrimental... you spawn with no gear, after losing whatever camp / mob you were at. With a possible hour long run back to where you cant even get your corpse without help all the while possibly dying again...

What game are you wanting to play?

You're an idiot.

[Harrison]

I doubt anyone read your finger diarrhea Macken. Just give up already.

[Envious]

GMs have no business in pvp in the first place, and always regret getting involved.

Quoting Macken killed a small part of me.

[Tombom]

I doubt anyone read your finger diarrhea Macken. Just give up already.

finger diarrhea is LOL

[Envious]

You're an idiot.

Says Juicedsixfo... el oh el.

Just roll on P99 and think of poop socking as pvp. Will work better for you.

[Smedy]

I doubt anyone read your finger diarrhea Macken. Just give up already.

Indeed. Macken was trash on vz/tz wouldn't take anything he has to say seriously imo.

[mitic]

So mitic, you care so much about pvp that you left a pvp server to play a blue server to kill dragons on a list, to tell everyone how much you want to pvp, to then hang around the pvp section of a forum to tell a gm of a server to care more about a server that you left. Nobody wanted to keep vz/tz going and that's no fault of sirkens, it's because it was as shithole.

I read half of sirkens post, my attention span is only half the size of my penis, but i mostly agree with him since he was one of the few in the staff that had brain cells.

I like yellow text, it lets the rest of the internet see how much i ruined someones life.

well i heard the chicks on blue servers are more willing than on red, so i switched! but then i figured there is nothing better than eqpvp and it was to late!

[Bombfist]

Rexx was the only chick on vz/tz, and she never gave good head so it became pointless.

[Macken]

Sirken says,

(NOTE to staff- by doing this you are able to hold guild leaders and officers responsible for the actions of their members. So if randomplayer001 is caught violating the rules, feel free to suspend guild leadership as well as the original offender. Trust me, Guild leaders will get their members acting right if they can be suspended for the actions of their members).



Macken says,

It's rare that someone who has to go through so much, still can't learn the lesson. You basically said in so many words that trying to enforce god awful rules was a mistake and you "failed miserably" exactly as Macken foretold.

Yet you send notes to staff encouraging the exact same thing. (note to sirken- if you threaten guild leaders with suspensions over agreements, then there will be no guild leaders making any agreements)

[Crenshinabon]

Yea I feel like GMs should interfere when it comes to giant obvious trains.

I feel like certain small trains happen, its a part if EQ, but again when it is taken to the extreme (1 solo druid zoning into fear to agro every mob he can on another guild) if there is a GM he should put an end to the persons madness.

It is not right to have 1 asshole be able to intentional grief an entire guild out of something. Its not even pvp, its kind of abusing mechanics.

Again this is only when it is extreme. If a group of GuildB try and take fear from GuildA, use trains, use pvp also, and take it from the other team, this sounds fine. But if GuildB failed the attempt, don't fkin keep griefing them by training and such. GuildB lost. Try again after a reasonable amount of time. No stupid Zerg naked training bs.

Some people play to grief, and the extremes should be controlled.
There is a difference between a small grief and extreme grief.

(grief is most often an unhappy and painful emotion caused by something)

[mitic]

Rexx was the only chick on vz/tz, and she never gave good head so it became pointless.

+she was fat

[Harrison]

Sirken, Buhbuh, and a small handful of others actually sound like they have an inkling of experience on what should be going on for a pvp server.

The rest? A retard circlejerk spewing "bro" in its various forms repeatedly, saying they're "box veterans" and know better than everyone else because of this fact.(lolworthy)

"I and my circlerjerk killed like 5 servers bro, doing BIG THINGS. What do YOU know about pvp?!" Is what their moronic babble boils down to.

This server would do well to just ban the people claiming they're going to do everything it takes to break the rules and grief large swathes of people off the server via dubious means(training, etc.). Pre-emptively ban these children.

Some people play to grief.

[Macken]

Indeed. Macken was trash on vz/tz wouldn't take anything he has to say seriously imo.

Stick to editing fraps.

You and Kaahbal stunk it up, and were always getting raped by me and Heresy and crying to Searyx to ban me and Heresy for destroying every guild you joined. How many guilds did you join anyway?

[Bombfist]

Yea I feel like GMs should interfere when it comes to giant obvious trains.

I feel like certain small trains happen, its a part if EQ, but again when it is taken to the extreme (1 solo druid zoning into fear to agro every mob he can on another guild) if there is a GM he should put an end to the persons madness.

It is not right to have 1 asshole be able to intentional grief an entire guild out of something. Its not even pvp, its kind of abusing mechanics.

Again this is only when it is extreme. If a group of GuildB try and take fear from GuildA, use trains, use pvp also, and take it from the other team, this sounds fine. But if GuildB failed the attempt, don't fkin keep griefing them by training and such. Thats BS. GuildB lost.

Some people play to grief.

Any GM with half a brain can choose when to correctly intervene, the problems with GM's arise when they go Puma style, "I'M NOT SURE IF HE'S BREAKING THE RULES, LETS FREEZE HIM IN PLACE DURING PVP AND DISCUSS WHY I THINK IT MIGHT BE WRONG EVEN THOUGH I'M CLUELESS"

Caps needed.

Pvp servers can't be policed to the extent that the internet seems to think they can, in theory it's possible, in practice you end up with your staff gradually hating their computer screen more and more every night.

[Humerox]

This server would do well to just ban the people claiming they're going to do everything it takes to break the rules and grief large swathes of people off the server via dubious means(training, etc.). Pre-emptively ban these children.

Nah Fin...it'll be much sweeter just to kill 'em.

[Tajin]

As far as PvP deaths – I have played item loot (VZ EQLive) and I have been a GM during item loot. While it’s fun, there will be players that use this to grief people off the server. Yes I understand that its as easy as /q’ing out and waiting, as opposed to running back, looting, and getting ganked again, but I learned long ago not to assume things from the playerbase. Basically item loot will hurt the population, period. XP loss for pvp deaths will be exploited the same way.. just wait til someone goes AFK at their bindspot and is murdered down 6-8 levels, once again this is begging people to quit the server. Coin Loot must stay in the game, if for no other reason that when we go PKing in RL, we do it to take our victims coins (as well as any ATM/Debit cards). It’s a small little satisfaction that doesn’t hurt anyone to the point of rage quitting. But, if people are hell bent on item loot, try it in the very beginning, and do NOT just add it to the server later after it’s been established.



Fuck that dude, Item loot would be so much fun on this server. Why do u think it will hurt the population. Any server with Rogeans stamp on it will be epic. If people know going in, that its item loot people shouldnt cry that they lose their gears. They should play better.
Please Rogean KEEP ITEM LOOT! Don't let these pussies sway you! At least try it out. If it's that detrimental to the server remove it. The fun part of item loot is trying to get the no drop gear.(happy love bracers ftw) And the grief that comes to the person that lost the gear.
Please don't ruin my immersion and leave out item loot. I need my Rallos Zek circa 1999. Where Anti-Pks consist of 80% of the server and the pks are shunned and frowned upon.

[SearyxTZ]

Disagree with Sirken about OOC/YT, but think he's spot-on about everything else.


I know that most of my guild (you know, the one that shot the VZTZ pop to 200 from about 50) would overwhelmingly vote in favor of it. It is not just the "hardcore troll" contingent who wants that/those features. Not everyone wants to be "immersed" to the point that they have no one to talk to in a zone where there's two other people, because the ooc is zone-specific and the game feels like a boring lonely single-player game. That is just going to suck. You P1999 guys need to realize there isn't going to be some big pow-wow meet-and-trade zone (EC tunnel) on a FFA red server where you can go to actually see the OOC and auction channels alive.

I thought Rogean had some smart compromises/ideas for YT (guild-only or whatever). Ultimately I think the players should decide whether the server has global OOC/chat or not. It's not for my personal sake that I'm lobbying for it either - I will have an entire guild of pals to chat with. The new solo player starting out in Qeynos Hills will not. For quite a while (classic XP rate).

[Macken]

Nah Fin...it'll be much sweeter just to kill 'em.

If Harrison were a pvper, he would already know that and more. A real pvpr who catches someone breaking the rules and cares, will get them banned eventually. Now thats real pvp.

Harrison doesn't realize that with each post he tells off on himself on exactly how clueless he is about the very topic he so desperately wants everyone to think he has a clue about.

[Macken]

Any GM with half a brain can choose when to correctly intervene.

Searyx doesn't have half a brain then.

[Harrison]

there isn't going to be some big pow-wow meet-and-trade zone (EC tunnel) on a FFA red server where you can go to actually see the OOC and auction channels alive.

I don't remember seeing anyone dumb enough to believe this.

Not even Macken.

[Macken]

I don't remember seeing anyone dumb enough to believe this.

Not even Macken.

anyone seen the thread about moronic blue quotes?

Ive seen about 738 in the last two days.

This is case in point on why you don't want bluebies making the rules. They don't even have a clue on what's about to happen.

[Bombfist]

Fuck that dude, Item loot would be so much fun on this server. Why do u think it will hurt the population. Any server with Rogeans stamp on it will be epic. If people know going in, that its item loot people shouldnt cry that they lose their gears. They should play better.
Please Rogean KEEP ITEM LOOT! Don't let these pussies sway you! At least try it out. If it's that detrimental to the server remove it. The fun part of item loot is trying to get the no drop gear.(happy love bracers ftw) And the grief that comes to the person that lost the gear.
Please don't ruin my immersion and leave out item loot. I need my Rallos Zek circa 1999. Where Anti-Pks consist of 80% of the server and the pks are shunned and frowned upon.

Pipe dream, players aren't of the same ability as they were in 1999, item loot has been tested in the present day with the players on this forum that are going to populate this server, it doesn't work - people bag their shit and run for the hills, it shows a MASSIVE decline in pvp. Why would people be any different, the only people left who will be affected by pvp loot will be the people who are terrible. Personally i like item loot, but it just doesn't promote pvp in the slightest, there are no "new" players coming to this server so you're taking a population of blue players, who like loot obviously and the pvp community who have tested this in the last year and it failed on a massive scale.

You won't get anything like your 1999 rallos, firstly because the player base isn't spasticated anymore, then there's the fact that there's no real tie to a free emulated server - they lose their gear "fuck this" bai.

[SearyxTZ]

Searyx doesn't have half a brain then.


I'll be the first to admit I was not a great GM. The playerbase burned me out and I was extremely bitter/tired near the end.

You earned some kind of punishment though. You had "watch/warn this guy" threads in the staff forum before I even took over. When I made a rule against raining AoE corpses at zonelines until we could figure out how to fix it, what did you (and others) do? You rained zonelines and were winning PvP because players would pop in zones with 25% HP. Guess who they complained to incessantly. No, really - guess. Sent screenshots to in PMs. Complained on the forums, calling for my immediate attention.

If you considered "the one overworked guy trying to hold the server up (for free) because nobody else wanted to do it, while Null and the other staff disappeared, who also had to manage the childlike antics/needs of the server host (Gronkus), while working a 9-to-7 job to make actual money", you are correct.

Get fucked. :)

[Harrison]

Lol more professional pvp moves by vztzject pvp wannabes:

AEing corpses(shouldn't be able to target a corpse to cast a targeted AE/rain) to hit players that couldn't respond.

Exploiting is so pro. I wish I was that good.

[vinx]

You P1999 guys need to realize there isn't going to be some big pow-wow meet-and-trade zone (EC tunnel) on a FFA red server where you can go to actually see the OOC and auction channels alive.
An you guys fail to realize that this wont be tz/vz
there will be more single players then boxers this time.. and even tho the population wont resemble live zeks, trades will still be done by the player base.
EC tunnel wont be used so anyone nostalgic about that zone can forget about it.. it will move to zones with actual banks (Gfay/EFP) an be heavily used by mules > players.

[SearyxTZ]

Don't act like people on the blue server don't also exploit the everliving shit out of the game. This is not something specific to red servers.

[Macken]

The playerbase burned me out and I was extremely bitter/tired near the end.



Have you considered sharing your experiences with the staff who have signaled their intention of making the exact same mistake?

You know which mistake i'm talking about don't you?

The same one Verant made and figured out fast. The same one VZTZ staff made before you showed up. The same one you made. The same one staff made after you left. The same one Red99 is chomping at the bit to make.

[Kope]

Don't act like people on the blue server don't also exploit the everliving shit out of the game. This is not something specific to red servers.

This is very true, everyone will always hack/cheat to do what best benefits them at the cost of whatever else.

This is why it's more detrimental on PvP servers, because the "cost of whatever else" is much higher to "everyone else" not doing it.

[Harrison]

Don't act like people on the blue server don't also exploit the everliving shit out of the game. This is not something specific to red servers.

Not even trying to come close to saying this.

A shitbag cheater is a shitbag cheater, regardless of the game, server, pvp, or not.

The difference here is that exploiting in pvp dicks over people, and not npcs. (You could argue that dicking over npcs via exploits/hacks etc. fucks with players indirectly, but it's not even close in terms of damaging to server health.)

[Bombfist]

If cast doesn't AIM me within 24 hours of the server going live telling me he has 50 blue diamonds it wouldn't seem like a pvp server.

[Macken]

You earned some kind of punishment though. You had "watch/warn this guy" threads in the staff forum before I even took over. When I made a rule against raining AoE corpses at zonelines until we could figure out how to fix it, what did you (and others) do? You rained zonelines and were winning PvP because players would pop in zones with 25% HP. Guess who they complained to incessantly. No, really - guess. Sent screenshots to in PMs. Complained on the forums, calling for my immediate attention.


Perfect example of why gms have no business getting involved in pvp.

Crash course for the clueless: All the top pvpers will be petitioned by those who do not understand what just happened. Or because they simply can't stand dieing, they will petition incessantly. If you don't have a "watch/warn this guy" by your name, then you aren't doing it right. I was petitioned daily on live and never banned because gms there were relatively much better than VZTZ staff. They could tell that despite appearances, I wasn't doing anything against the rules.

If a guy who plays eq, plays pvp emu, gms pvp emu, is involved with the gaming industry can't figure it out after all this time, then how can you expect the average gm to?

If you don't know how to gm, watch the guys who are petitioned every day. They are the ones who will teach you whats up.

If a gm thinks someone is doing something wrong, just because he is petitioned alot, fire that GM. Hes a moron who will wind up just like Searyx.

...the laughing stock of a whole internet community.

[Macken]

Not even trying to come close to saying this.

A shitbag cheater is a shitbag cheater, regardless of the game, server, pvp, or not.

The difference here is that exploiting in pvp dicks over people, and not npcs. (You could argue that dicking over npcs via exploits/hacks etc. fucks with players indirectly, but it's not even close in terms of damaging to server health.)

cheating on blue servers is ok, because relatively speaking, it's not as bad as cheating on red.

right Harrison?

[Harrison]

cheating on blue servers is ok, because relatively speaking, it's not as bad as cheating on red.

right Harrison?

Just give up already retard. You obviously can't read the fucking quote you put in your own post.

A shitbag cheater is a shitbag cheater, regardless of the game, server, pvp, or not.

Do you get it yet, moron?

[Buhbuh]

I'd say more people laugh at the expense of you, Macken, almost more than anyone else. In fact, I'm calling Searyx right now to laugh about you.

He said, "Yeah, he should do what my last post said and get fucked."

[Macken]

Do you get it yet, moron?

The difference here is that........



Thats the problem. I get it.

do you?











moron.

[Macken]

I'd say more people laugh at the expense of you, Macken, almost more than anyone else. In fact, I'm calling Searyx right now to laugh about you.

He said, "Yeah, he should do what my last post said and get fucked."

why so mad buhbuh?

You can come bluebie it up and die to macken just like searyx did.

You can come to forums and cry about macken too later, just like searyx.

don't be so impatient.

[Harrison]

Referring to oneself in the third person consistently...

You are one sad individual lmao

[Buhbuh]

Did...did you ever learn what the word 'mad' meant?

How has that become a knee jerk response for people? 'Cool story bro' is another bad one. Try wit, buddy. I might smell what you're cookin' with some witty stuff. Hit me.

[lethdar]

Agree with everything sirken said but for the lack of server wide pvp messages.

Theres no need for names or other self masturbatory things to be listed in them but some method for people to find the pvp hotspots on a server with 1/5 - 1/4th the population live had at the same time will be important.

[Nirgon]

Yellow text for GMs only :P.

Emails/notifications to GMs when more than 5 players go into a raid zone or even an area.

[Kope]

Yellow text for GMs only :P.

Emails/notifications to GMs when more than 5 players go into a raid zone or even an area.

Do you seriously want an auto GM batphone?

[juicedsixfo]

Theres no need for names or other self masturbatory things to be listed in them but some method for people to find the pvp hotspots on a server with 1/5 - 1/4th the population live had at the same time will be important.

THEY'VE BEEN THE SAME FUCKING HOTSPOTS FOR 12 YEARS, THEY AREN'T GOING TO CHANGE

Seriously that is the absolutely worst fucking excuse for yellow text

[mokfarg]

It would be hard to find volunteers to monitor bad behavior all the time and to do so fairly in all cases.

The best thing to do is try to make game mechanics to prevent as much bad behavior as possible so that it doesn't have to be dealt with. Don't ask me how but that would be ideal! I think Rogean is on to a nice start with his level restriction code.

I wouldn't know how to stop training without messing up game mechanics. The only ideas I had was have all monsters snare but that ruins pulling and kiting. I also thought about if you were in combat you couldn't zone but that would be upsetting. I don't know!

[lethdar]

THEY'VE BEEN THE SAME FUCKING HOTSPOTS FOR 12 YEARS, THEY AREN'T GOING TO CHANGE

Seriously that is the absolutely worst fucking excuse for yellow text

You dumb bro? Rly rly dumb?

Maybe if you had slightly better reading comprehension you would see we're talking about zones that aren't guk/solb. Maybe in fantasy land you do drive by scouting of kedge and tox,... but srsly get fucked moron.

[Misto]

You dumb bro? Rly rly dumb?

ad hominemememememememeem

[Humerox]

sad that a good thread has devolved into such pure asshattery so soon.

[Macken]

When I made a rule against raining AoE corpses at zonelines until we could figure out how to fix it, what did you (and others) do? You rained zonelines and were winning PvP because players would pop in zones with 25%

Another perfect expample of why GM's have no business in PvP.

So later in timeline of 1.0 my guild and i were guarding fear loots, 'cause they were ours, and waiting on Kaahbal, Smedy and friends at the zone in, 'cause they coveted them.

When the first guy zoned in, I rained phyre down on him. Again and again. I slew so many noobs Kaahbal's tears came flowing like old faithful.


Kaahbal tells Searyx, 'Phyre is raining corpses. He killed lots of people at zone in - all the proof you need. Ban plz, k thx.'
Searyx tells you, 'Ugh. I can't stand him. He always killed me. Even in dungeons. Punched harder than i did, to the face. I'll take care of it.'

GMs have no business in PvP.

[Salty]

GMs have no business in PvP.


Concur.

But with a box as fucked as vztz was (lol bind wound someone, they zone out before done, zone crashes), there were so many game breaking issues that made it easy for players to grief your face off the server.

Just having 60 people in one zone pvping was damn near impossible before the community gave Gronkus a bunch of money.




Saeryx putting knockback on all Plane of Sky mobs was the worst thing in the world. Have you ever done Plane of Sky where you get knockbacked every 15seconds?

#winning sky

Remove knockback when our competition finally decides to farm up there. Thanks vztz staff.

[Rushmore]

I also agree with everything Sirken posted

YT ZONE WIDE would be nice and a great compromise

PLUGGING should be a 10 minute downtime before you can log back in.

[Macken]

If you considered "the one overworked guy trying to hold the server up (for free) because nobody else wanted to do it, while Null and the other staff disappeared, who also had to manage the childlike antics/needs of the server host (Gronkus), while working a 9-to-7 job to make actual money", you are correct.


Yeah the fact you did it for free saves you. Thank you.

The lesson is, people quit when they think they have been treated unfairly.

And GMs quit when they tire of the consequences of others feeling they mistreated them.

right Searyx?

[Rushmore]

GMS can and should intervene when needed. Very Rarely of course but yes certain circumstances call for it. Those circumstances should be for training purposes only.

LNS from what I remember on 3.0 worked between guilds and guild leaders.

[Buhbuh]

Opening a server and taking off doesn't work. Another case of nostalgia is blinding those of you who think things were perfect the way they were in the past. Don't put EQ up on a pedestal like that. We are all aware that the right things they did do made it one of the most fun PvP games ever, but there was a lot that was still pretty ridiculous.

The fact that half the population of each of our old EQlive servers weren't banned doesn't mean GM intervention is wrong or bad. What it simply means is that Sony wanted money, and banning people required gumption on behalf of the staff at Sony. In reality, people should have been banned into oblivion from the beginning of live to be made an example of, in order for it to stop.

I was a monk my entire EQ career. Intentional training was bullshit and very easily distinguished from trains where the details were sketchy. In my honest opinion, nothing is better for the server than, "If you're a dickhead, kick rocks."

If you don't want GM's present on the server regarding terrible behavior, you don't want to be held accountable for your actions. Macken is a fan of spouting about these ideas: "go out in real life and try it, see how that works." You're taking attention away from yourself and the bigger issue. YOU go out and try to be unaccountable for the things you do in the world. Shit doesn't work that way, pal.

I'm all about being hands off when it comes to battling and contesting zones, etc. Trains happen, whatever. But when someone takes it to that next level (and even sometimes fails at wiping whole guilds), I would wholly enjoy hearing he/ she got the hammer. Trains will happen either way, but if people are getting caught and banned for it, great!

Let me ask one thing for the people who disagree: When you first came to the emulated EQ experiences, with things like slow ass exp, no SoW indoors, having to look at a spellbook to meditate, and the like fixed or eliminated to some degree, was being intentionally trained by someone from another guild while after raiding for 3 hours not on your list of things in EQ that sucked complete ass? Was it something we all looked fondly on?

When trains happened unintentionally, I remember both sides of a war were remorseful oftentimes because the actual fighting ended there when it could have continued without the interruption. Is that not how you feel, too? I get pretty fuckin' bummed when I'm PvPing and mobs get thrown in the mix fortuitously. When it happens intentionally and nothing happens, is that okay? That merits nothing at all? Just another day? We condone that now? Fight fire with fire? That's your solution? Eye for an eye? It becomes a pretty caustic environment to be a part of that way.

Don't mistake that I or those of us that disagree with you can't adapt like the best of them-- that isn't an argument. Adaptation to PvP situations makes you a better player, but actively training players is eliminating a person's ability to adapt. That is the point of training-- to kill quickly, to halt, to block progress, to stunt.

"I told you so" could be applied to every other PvP server up to this point, Macken. Rarely, if ever, were people held accountable for what they did on VZTZ, KAB, R69, and whatever the fuck else came about in the past 3 years. No offense to GM's who gave us what we wanted to the best of their abilities, but they simply didn't have the resources this place does. If we have the option of GM's open to discussion, why not take it? Sounds like a +1 in my book.

[Harrison]

When I made a rule against raining AoE corpses at zonelines until we could figure out how to fix it, what did you (and others) do? You rained zonelines and were winning PvP because players would pop in zones with 25% HP.

The pathetic part is a lot of vztzjects have no problem with exploits such as this. They think it's just par for the course in their pussy golf game.

[eastadam55]

The pathetic part is a lot of vztzjects have no problem with exploits such as this. They think it's just par for the course in their pussy golf game.

your one pathetic piece of shit aren't you?

[Macken]

If you don't want GM's present on the server regarding terrible behavior, you don't want to be held accountable for your actions. Macken is a fan of spouting about these ideas: "go out in real life and try it, see how that works." You're taking attention away from yourself and the bigger issue. YOU go out and try to be unaccountable for the things you do in the world. Shit doesn't work that way, pal.



Dear Nub,

If the object of the game is to kill or be killed, then what exactly are you going to be held accountable for?

Are you suggesting i should try and kill someone irl and try to be unaccountable to it, as proof you deserve GM help to pvp?

Except for trains-- if it's in the game, it's in the game.

What you want is a referee to save you.

[Harrison]

Awww, did I hit a nerve? Did you exploit that amongst the tons of other exploits regularly used on vztz as well? Going to cry now?

[eastadam55]

Awww, did I hit a nerve? Did you exploit that amongst the tons of other exploits regularly used on vztz as well? Going to cry now?

im going to exploit my foot up your ass mother fucker.

[muffins]

harrison has never done anything noteworthy in any competitive game ever. dude cant even get rated in LoL.. does anyone actually listen to him.

[Harrison]

Muffins lawl

Who are you again? In any game...ever?

Besides, how the fuck would you know? lmfao

[JayDee]

I will continuously give my opinions even though nobody cares and I will never participate in pvp myself

tru dat

[Tonomar]

"Punishment – just make it count. Over on VZTZ we did lots of suspensions and we did a lot of bans. Suspensions and Bans didn’t matter because on VZTZ all u needed was a new IP address and u could level a new account to 60 in a week."

I am the victim of an unjust ban. 8/24/2010, Always Remember Lol, jk Love you Sirken. I agree with everything he says.

[Buhbuh]

Dear Nub,

If the object of the game is to kill or be killed, then what exactly are you going to be held accountable for?

Are you suggesting i should try and kill someone irl and try to be unaccountable to it, as proof you deserve GM help to pvp?

Except for trains-- if it's in the game, it's in the game.

What you want is a referee to save you.

PvP is our agenda, yes. The object of the game, though? That depends on the player. The purpose of the server is to have PvP, something completely ignored and ancillary to what Sony had intended this game to be for. Obviously there are areas that were neglected and able to be used to fuck someone. So yeah, other than omitting from your memory that I said I could hang on any server with any rules, I do think GM's should hold people accountable for things on a game that weren't intended to be used as what most of you so eloquently call "tactics."

You just want the server up and to be left alone to do whatever you want, and so do I. But training is only a part of EQ in your memory because nobody gave two shits about it. When people were banned for it, I don't remember anyone caring. I have no problem with GM's banning for it. I think you think they'll go down a slippery slope and start making assumptions about who or what is training. GM's locking characters on an inference isn't what we're talking about though. Intervention for me is defined after the fact. I'd rather be trained, the night of events be over, and then have whoever trained on purpose banned or suspended.

I'm sure the devs have already realized that you make empty claims and don't expalin yourself, though. So whatevs. I imagine there will be GM's. Your case is weak.

[Smedy]

cheating on blue servers is ok, because relatively speaking, it's not as bad as cheating on red.

right Harrison?

made me lol

was trying the blue for awhile, camped hermit and a gnoll that spawns on that hill for exp at lvl 27 (necro)

quillmane comes flying randomly, i pull him..

3 minutes later i've kited him away from the hermit into a little area and some random halfling warrior comes out of the woodwork being like "hey bro i need cloak"

he would just find me in the middle of nowhere like that...

yeah those blue players sure legit as fuck.... not really. it's like you say, cheating on blue doesn't have as much impact on others gameplay.

I'm pretty sure there's more unlegit scumbags on p99 then there was on vz/tz

Anyway story ended with me telling him to gtfo and i looted the cloak on my necro

[Salty]

Remember how Tink would ask people to rez him after they PKd his face?

lolz

[Rushmore]

So basically all the so called scum of VZTZ that hated and cheated each other pretty much agree with the Sirken Law.

Only exception is Macken.

Lets use this as a base and maybe tweak it where we can agree for the better.

[Stinkum]

I'm pretty sure there's more unlegit scumbags on p99 then there was on vz/tz

can't compare cause i didn't play on vztz, but i think most bluebies would sympathize with the argument that p99 has more than its fair share of unlegit scumbags. just because harrison is just a loudmouth dirtbag doesn't mean he represents the p99 server opinion, in fact everyone here treats him like a sideshow freak because that's what he is

post the name of the halfling warrior tho plz

[Vile]

How the fuck can you make more then 6 posts show on a page fuck fuck fuck.

[Vile]

made me lol

was trying the blue for awhile, camped hermit and a gnoll that spawns on that hill for exp at lvl 27 (necro)

quillmane comes flying randomly, i pull him..

3 minutes later i've kited him away from the hermit into a little area and some random halfling warrior comes out of the woodwork being like "hey bro i need cloak"

he would just find me in the middle of nowhere like that...

yeah those blue players sure legit as fuck.... not really. it's like you say, cheating on blue doesn't have as much impact on others gameplay.

I'm pretty sure there's more unlegit scumbags on p99 then there was on vz/tz

Anyway story ended with me telling him to gtfo and i looted the cloak on my necro

Haha.. it's just like others said, no one cares if you cheat on P99blue ;)

[Macken]

I do think GM's should hold people accountable for things on a game that weren't intended to be used as what most of you so eloquently call "tactics."

Your case is weak.



If you include any rules other than trains, what you want is a referee to save you.

My cases are corroborated by two VZTZ GMs, and agreed upon by many others. It's just not everyone agrees with all 3: Free Trade PvP, and infinitesimal GM involvement, with proof of who is the best.

Free Trade PvP being, 7-50 range pvp, police the trains (if you can) and thats it. let the bodies fall where they may.

The GMs will thank me for the 2nd one.

Why is anyone afraid of a leaderboard? I'd be more worried about finding enough pvp with less to fight over. Anyone who is mad because i made fun of them over YT and Leaderboards this summer during the hiatus needs to quit holding the community hostage and get over their fear and anger.

You still have a chance. It'll be a new start.

[Macken]

Only exception is Macken.


Exception?

I didn't hate or cheat anyone.

[Buhbuh]

How did it take you that long to understand we wanted GMs policing trains if at all possible? No other issue is that big of deal, bar hacking.

I don't think anyone wants GM involvement on small stuff. I imagine them watching some raids and rarely having to intervene on anything. The point is that if they can catch idiots training in some way, do it.

Leaderboard was in an era of EQ well beyond its prime. It holds really no significance. If you need to be feared or known on here, don't suck at PvP.

I dig YT in some ways, though. It's cool seeing how a battle is panning out. The promoting of more PvP is a good thing too. The only downside is that when someone wants to be stealthy and assassin-like in nature with PvP, your location is known after killing someone.

[Harrison]

I'm pretty sure there's more unlegit scumbags on p99 then there was on vz/tz

rofl.

[Macken]

How did it take you that long to understand we wanted GMs policing trains if at all possible?

Leaderboard was in an era of EQ well beyond its prime. It holds really no significance. If you need to be feared or known on here, don't suck at PvP.


Assuming "we" is you and a mouse in pocket, about 40 posts back when you first mentioned it. I thought it was cute you were trying to insinuate i wanted trains. I was wondering when you were gonna figure it out. 40 posts i reckon. Grats on your discovery.

Leaderboard is Velious era as well as being uniquely sullon. It was there on launch and therefore SZ "classic". I guess real classic and Kunark is EQ prime. Everything else is so last year and insignificant.

[raptorak]

I will be playing this server but probably not PKing unless PKed myself. I like to have the danger and possibility of being killed by other players, without necessarily partaking myself. That is one of the reasons I play a primarily KoS class. Any yellow text for my death is a little bit e-peen but I don't really care so let them rub it in - I've died a million times in EQ, many times I have fallen at the hands of the mighty decaying skeleton so some guy in the best gear exploiting a glitch or getting in the last hit to kill me whilst I am soloing doesn't really phase me.

Playing PVP servers doesn't necessarily mean you are going to kill everyone you see, you see. I would rather this were race war rather than all out PVP and didn't have exp loss when you die (can imagine rage quitting a few times thanks to that), but you can't have everything, and this will do just fine. In the end, EQ pvp is unbalanced, broken and technically quite rubbish, however it can be lot of fun and at least the option is there on a PVP server. Being good at it, however, is not really anything to be proud but if it floats your boat let them have their yellow text, makes no difference to me.

[Rushmore]

Exception?

I didn't hate or cheat anyone.

Bro i just mean u are on the other side of what the majority of "tzvz vets" want

I like your free trade pvp idea but it would hurt population

[Rushmore]

I will be playing this server but probably not PKing unless PKed myself. I like to have the danger and possibility of being killed by other players, without necessarily partaking myself. me.

I started out on 1.0 like you 4 years ago. Even though its gay when you get pvped it sure as hell a lot more exciting and it keeps you on your toes. 4 years later i would say i seek pvp more and have become better at it. I could never ever go Blue again and that goes for any game.
There really is nothing out there that is a better gaming experience like Everquest w/pvp.

Welcome bro.

[vinx]

I will be playing this server but probably not PKing unless PKed myself. I like to have the danger and possibility of being killed by other players, without necessarily partaking myself.
^ this is what will make the server more fun and enjoyable imo
more reminisce of EQlive classic servers.

fuck what all the vztz players want, they are the hardcore.
will they strive to make a name for themselves here? ofc but they will be there regardless what shit box is up and content to pvp for bragging rights amongst themselves.

Theres alot of sideline players who have played red on live that wont deal with broken servers or who dont share the same attitude of these vztz players. i mean you cant blame them really for falling into that cycle year after year, failed box after failed box. 150/3= 50 actual players who are all hardcore and have been flaming each other for years about whos best. they forget what live was actually like.

with an actual server and competent staff who are known for putting out quality stuff, i hope the sideline players come back to red and anyone else wanting to give it a try.
we've all seen some interest, albeit small from non-pvpers wanting to try a red server. which makes more sense now then it did on live (or P99)
because at this point and time most have done blue live, then relived it on classic P99 and the only thing missing now is to take part in a red server the way it was before things got progressively fooked on live eg, instances/augs/pok books etc
is it balanced? no but this is closest anyone will find to the golden age of EQ pvp.

what will put the icing on the cake for this server is the community. this server needs the anti-pk/roleplayers/pks/white knights and noobs .. thats really the only balance this server needs to recreate a classic red server.

[Tajin]

Pipe dream, players aren't of the same ability as they were in 1999, item loot has been tested in the present day with the players on this forum that are going to populate this server, it doesn't work - people bag their shit and run for the hills, it shows a MASSIVE decline in pvp. Why would people be any different, the only people left who will be affected by pvp loot will be the people who are terrible. Personally i like item loot, but it just doesn't promote pvp in the slightest, there are no "new" players coming to this server so you're taking a population of blue players, who like loot obviously and the pvp community who have tested this in the last year and it failed on a massive scale.

You won't get anything like your 1999 rallos, firstly because the player base isn't spasticated anymore, then there's the fact that there's no real tie to a free emulated server - they lose their gear "fuck this" bai.

With Rogeans stamp on this server, the population will flourish! With that being said it won't be hard finding pvp. When was this tested?? Beginning of box 3.0? I had a blasty blast when item loot was enabled on it. I dont think it was a failure.
But I agree some people will run for the hills to save their gears, but alot of people will run regardless if its enabled or not. People just need to man up! How can u not want item loot!?!? Gank people and steal their GEARS! WTF whats not to like.

[Tamiah2011]

Perfect example of why gms have no business getting involved in pvp.

Crash course for the clueless: All the top pvpers will be petitioned by those who do not understand what just happened. Or because they simply can't stand dieing, they will petition incessantly. If you don't have a "watch/warn this guy" by your name, then you aren't doing it right. I was petitioned daily on live and never banned because gms there were relatively much better than VZTZ staff. They could tell that despite appearances, I wasn't doing anything against the rules.

If a guy who plays eq, plays pvp emu, gms pvp emu, is involved with the gaming industry can't figure it out after all this time, then how can you expect the average gm to?

If you don't know how to gm, watch the guys who are petitioned every day. They are the ones who will teach you whats up.

If a gm thinks someone is doing something wrong, just because he is petitioned alot, fire that GM. Hes a moron who will wind up just like Searyx.

...the laughing stock of a whole internet community.





GM should never never be involved pvp,Unless it a server issue and not a player issue.Asheron call PvP server let you know that your playing at your own risk and that GM would never get involved in player issues.The server ran awsome and player alway handle things between wach other,Was great times.RZ had a bunch of crupt GM feeding there friends items and banning players and after the scandle RZ was never the same again.GM should never ever been involved in the players side of game especially in Pvp.

[Lasher]

Gm should police exploits and hacking, any play nice rules they want should be hardcoded to some degree to eliminate burnt out and to remove spur of the moment shitty GM judgment call that is usually made with 10% of the required information and has a 50% accuracy.

GM usually get called in and show up after the atrocity has happened so they are already playing catch up and they are talking to 2 or 3 people they believe will give them reliable information but the whitest of knights will always have a different subjective view of the encounter compared to counterpart of the fight.

Now i am for very little PNP but if gms are going to try to say LNS must be followed, no bind camping, no bindrushing, then hard code it so gms are not involved

If GM want LNS, make the corpse pop at entrance or some shit when person is pked because it cant be policed with any margin of success

No Bind rushing or bind camping make it that when pked you are perma rooted DA for 5 mins or some shit.

Now i am not for any of this but having gms get petitioned everytime a person thinks they are getting mistreated and skewing the story to make them look like an angel and having the gm make a judgment call doesnt work.

GMs cant be on 24/7, cant be everyone at once when they are on and always show bias even if its unitentional. If salty is playing and has a 100% legit claim of being CC or something i guarantee a GM wont care/will think salty deserves it/ or will lesson the punishment towards the attacker

So either No PNP which i think it should or hardcode what you can and what you cant hardcore then tell the players tough shit and go watch Smurf 3d

[XiakenjaTZ]

We begin to diverge from classic then. I would rather see what Lasher suggests if it becomes a problem. Something like you suggest can always be added after we are playing and when the GMs get fed up.

We are all making suggestions for things we are not sure will be a huge issue.

[Vile]

Hi Lasher.

[Lasher]

Hi Vile

[Littlegyno]

Hi Lasher and Vile.

[Vile]

Hey Bros

[Lasher]

hey brew, hey jew

[Littlegyno]

hey brew, hey jew

you best be calling vile a jew, brew.

[SearyxTZ]

One point Sirks made that I think needs to be repeated


Punishment – just make it count. Over on VZTZ we did lots of suspensions and we did a lot of bans. Suspensions and Bans didn’t matter because on VZTZ all u needed was a new IP address and u could level a new account to 60 in a week.



This.

On VZTZ the punishments were rarely severe (maybe due to fear of losing population). The "bans" were really just suspensions, and everybody knew it.

When staff tried to change this and take a hard stance, it wasn't possible because players already held us to that standard.


Moral of the (cool) story? Keep the pimp hand strong from the start, so this does not happen. Training is a very hard thing to police, as has been discussed already, but the second you find someone who is unquestionably blatantly doing it: ban him, nuke his characters, ban his IP - everything. Set the tone early.

[Harrison]

One point Sirks made that I think needs to be repeated



This.

On VZTZ the punishments were rarely severe (maybe due to fear of losing population). The "bans" were really just suspensions, and everybody knew it.

When staff tried to change this and take a hard stance, it wasn't possible because players already held us to that standard.


Moral of the (cool) story? Keep the pimp hand strong from the start, so this does not happen. Training is a very hard thing to police, as has been discussed already, but the second you find someone who is unquestionably blatantly doing it: ban him, nuke his characters, ban his IP - everything. Set the tone early.

This.

[Jigga]

cant wait to see a bunch of lvl 7's banned when they accidnetal pull black burrow and zone it on some newbie.

A train is a train is a train.

This is where A gm will have to make one of those gut calls and will be wrong 50% and people who trained intentially will get away with some of the times and people who didnt train intentionaly will lose their character some of the time

[Vendar]

cant wait to see a bunch of lvl 7's banned when they accidnetal pull black burrow and zone it on some newbie.

A train is a train is a train.

This is where A gm will have to make one of those gut calls and will be wrong 50% and people who trained intentially will get away with some of the times and people who didnt train intentionaly will lose their character some of the time

really?

as long as the R99 staff has an ounce of common sense, the noobs in blackburrow should be safe (albeit not from trains).

EQ Survival Tip #273 - don't hunt at zone lines if you wish to avoid trains

[SearyxTZ]

Most people who have played on pvp servers extensively can tell you the difference between an accidental train and an intentional one.


There are some edge cases, yeah, but a "oops I just agro'd some shit in unrest because I'm a stupid newbie and have to zone" train is not the same as a "I zoned into PoF with my naked [Level 50 Bard/Monk] and I'm running around the entire zone agroing shit which coincidentally is dropped on top of the rival raid guild of 30 players who are about to attempt Cazic Thule" train.

[Jigga]

Most people who have played on pvp servers extensively can tell you the difference between an accidental train and an intentional one.


There are some edge cases, yeah, but a "oops I just agro'd some shit in unrest because I'm a stupid newbie and have to zone" train is not the same as a "I zoned into PoF with my naked [Level 50 Bard/Monk] and I'm running around the entire zone agroing shit which coincidentally is dropped on top of the rival raid guild of 30 players who are about to attempt Cazic Thule" train.

Obvious trains are obvious but with the less obvious ones a GM will be cried to and the guild that got trained will have their guild member who his friends/ on good standing with a GM and skew the story and GM will make a decision. Judge and Jury with limited amount of information mostly obtained from players

[Galacticus]

I'm not going to post in 7 different threads that are already filled up with crap, arguments, and opinions from people that have no idea what they are talking about, or are trying to get the rules crafted to better suit their play style. Here's just a couple things I’ve noticed over my years on the VZTZ server, feel free to flame, argue, disagree, etc. im not gonna go tit for tat with you guys, because, well you know what they say about opinions.



As far as PvP deaths – I have played item loot (VZ EQLive) and I have been a GM during item loot. While it’s fun, there will be players that use this to grief people off the server. Yes I understand that its as easy as /q’ing out and waiting, as opposed to running back, looting, and getting ganked again, but I learned long ago not to assume things from the playerbase. Basically item loot will hurt the population, period. XP loss for pvp deaths will be exploited the same way.. just wait til someone goes AFK at their bindspot and is murdered down 6-8 levels, once again this is begging people to quit the server. Coin Loot must stay in the game, if for no other reason that when we go PKing in RL, we do it to take our victims coins (as well as any ATM/Debit cards). It’s a small little satisfaction that doesn’t hurt anyone to the point of rage quitting. But, if people are hell bent on item loot, try it in the very beginning, and do NOT just add it to the server later after it’s been established.

Loot and Scoot (LNS) – Let the community work this out. VZTZ staff tried MANY different variations of LNS rules, and while some worked better than others, they all ultimately failed. After tons of failure, I pulled a couple guild leaders into staff vent, and made them hammer out LnS rules that they both thought were fair, and that could easily be enforced. On live, the server populations were large enough that the community could effectively punish people for being griefing douchebags, however the R99 population may not be as large as live servers were, which means the community would not be able to stop certain guilds from acting any kinda way they wanted. Again, the ONLY time I’ve seen LNS work on emu was when the server’s top guild leaders got together and hammered something out together that they both could agree on (NOTE to staff- by doing this you are able to hold guild leaders and officers responsible for the actions of their members. So if randomplayer001 is caught violating the rules, feel free to suspend guild leadership as well as the original offender. Trust me, Guild leaders will get their members acting right if they can be suspended for the actions of their members).

Zone Plugging – its lame, but, it’s also classic. Imo, just don’t let the guy hit the zone. But real life isn’t that simple, I think if Rogean could indeed add something that forces the player to pop out LD on the other side it would be a superb addition to the R99 server. People were going on about “plugging to avoid YT” well this is true, it’s the least important side effect. People will be plugging mostly to avoid any possible LnS, to ensure that they are not out of the fight. But let’s make sure LD toons don’t go all GOD MODE when in LD form.

Playnice (training, BC, BR, griefing) – Training is retarded, Training is not pvp, Training does not take skill. Any young drunken monkey can train mobs.. hell if u give me 10 min, I’m sure I could teach my dog to train PoF right now. Dear R99 Staff, when u see trains, please use the biggest heaviest banhammer around to crack the needed skulls, I assure you it will help protect the population. As far as BindCamping and BindRushing… well that’s a slippery slope pals. I used to think BC/BR wasn’t a big deal either, and then I watched a guild vs guild fight for zone control over lady vox. GuildA was getting slaughtered by GuildB, however GuildA just kept bindrushing the fight for HOURS. GuildB was forced to repeatedly kill the same players over and over and over and over again for literally fuckingpullmyhairout hours. GuildB had in my opinion won the fight HOURS before, yet GuildA continued to rush just as a means to prevent GuildB from attempting their mob. THAT is not PvP, that’s just bindrushing. We tried a lot of ways to prevent BR/BC on VZTZ, however if a GM wasn’t on, a player would usually try to later lawyer the rules around to justify his or his guildies’ actions. I strongly suggest that the best way to deal with BC/BR is to not make a rule against it per say, but to make a rule stating that “any actions deemed detrimental to the server, it’s population of players and/or staff, are always considered against the rules and will result in your account being banned from the server” this will allow you to take each one on a case by case basis so the GM can see if the sketchy actions were actually warranted (recently killed players will try to bait and try to lure their killers into re-attacking them simply to petition that player for BCing, in hopes to get him banned).

PvP level Range – Well I think +/- 8 levels is perfect, and if Rogean can add that system he was describing, it sounds like nobody will have to worry about immy healing (which btw, was a very real and viable tactic used by dirty crossteamers on EQLive Vallon Zek (and I assume Tallon Zek). On A Side Note, if its possible to remove the pvp level range around Dragons and highly contested raid mobs, I strongly suggest doing so. The reason for this is because as GuildA preps for Supermob001, GuildB will either send a level 1 cleric to DA train OR GuildB will send a level 1 Rogue to spy on GuildA and watch them. This happened all the time on VZTZ.

Global OOC / Yellow Text – Global OOC is/was/will be a bad idea, just as it was on VZTZ. I know a lot of people “play for the ooc” but imo, that’s not how u play EQ, and the rest of the server generally doesn’t give a shit, sorry pals, take it to tells, or, grow a pair of balls and go to the zone with your enemies and talk shit to them in the zone. Global OOC had to be turned off LOTSA times for various reasons (garbage content, extreme spam to try and crash the players, etc), Furthermore there were quite a few players on VZTZ that had their OOC privileges revoked. ATTN PLAYERS, remember OOC is like a drivers license, IT’S A PRIVLEGE, NOT A RIGHT. As far as Yellow Text goes – firstly STAFF, you WANT to be able to see zone wide yellow text so you know exactly when and where PvP is popping off, and exactly where to go and who to watch at a moment’s notice. As far as Yellow Text for players (if it’s possible to do this even I’m not sure), if YT is server wide, it will be used to grief… but, if you can keep YT as player visible only as a zone wide feature everyone wins and everyone is happy. (basically GMs see YT server wide, but players see YT as zone wide).

Punishment – just make it count. Over on VZTZ we did lots of suspensions and we did a lot of bans. Suspensions and Bans didn’t matter because on VZTZ all u needed was a new IP address and u could level a new account to 60 in a week.



P.S. - Lastly, keep the XP exactly like p99. Mid level pvp is FUN and it didn’t exist on VZTZ, but furthermore, bans will mean A LOT more when it takes months to get to 60, when it takes more months to get that uber item.

And last for real, don’t let these players troll you guys into making bad decisions, they are very good at what they do (see: ninja trolls), and they will try to get you to make certain changes under false pretenses or with ulterior motives in mind.

<3
Sirks


TL;DR – Sirken acting all knowledgeable... again

Great minds think alike.

Agree.

[Smedy]

I'm pretty sure there's more unlegit scumbags on p99 then there was on vz/tz

rofl.



Looks like i wasn't wrong there palsy: http://www.project1999.org/forums/showthread.php?t=46654

You may now call me Prophet Smedy Jesus of The Box, get on my level

[Harrison]

Looks like i wasn't wrong there palsy: http://www.project1999.org/forums/showthread.php?t=46654

You may now call me Prophet Smedy Jesus of The Box, get on my level

If we were to even begin to compare the sheer numbers of those banned here, and those who came from your shitbox...lol

I think we'd all know the cross referencing would be lulzy.

I never said P99 had no hackers. But, to think it has more than your failbox did? Lawl.

[Smedy]

It's obvious that there's more here, we had some yeah, but it was always the same people, get it? VZTZ never really banned anyone, which was one of the huge problems, they just came back.

Also hacking gets way more obvious when you're actually competing in the game.

If p99 had pvp for a week, there would be mayhem rage posts about people getting acked on :)

[Macken]

Poor Bardalicious.

He doesn't stand a chance now.

[Rushmore]

Best part was the de-lvl to 54 for 60s

Ouch!!!

[vinx]

Best part was the de-lvl to 54 for 60s

Ouch!!!
^ agree! man thats gotta hurt LOL

but they are getting a second chance
which is better then anyone after this initial clean up

some will get an easy ride from the guilds, but i wouldnt feel bad for anyone if they got banned outright.. having to re-level for most is going to be a PITA hahah

[lethdar]

Deleting of plat going to ruin the economy, how will my cleric be able to buy more newbie loot???

[Muaar]

Agree with everything besides training but I can see your point and will play either way.

[mokfarg]

I am curious to what a new warrior does to stay alive on a classic everquest server? I imagine just bend over.

[Galacticus]

I am curious to what a new warrior does to stay alive on a classic everquest server? I imagine just bend over.

Get more healers in his group.

[Xantille]

I am curious to what a new warrior does to stay alive on a classic everquest server? I imagine just bend over.

Diaperquest till level 50 + profit. Fight people when you're running w/ a group or when you get some resist gear.

And if running solo, yeah, you should probably just bend over. Pick fights you know you can win (i.e. only against pure melees)

[Tonomar]

Diaperquest till level 50 + profit. Fight people when you're running w/ a group or when you get some resist gear.

And if running solo, yeah, you should probably just bend over. Pick fights you know you can win (i.e. only against pure melees)

Hi Xant, I miss you. We will be reunited soon.

[SearyxTZ]

I miss u too baby

[lethdar]

Soon it will be party time in an ocean of blood pals

[Galacticus]

http://si.wsj.net/public/resources/images/OB-CP586_1103ob_D_20081103192752.jpg

[Lasher]

hi xant
hi todomar
hey lethdar

[Tonomar]

Droppin out of skewl once this opens, so I can hang with my E-bros alllll day. Hay lasher and leth.

[Cancerface]

P99 exp aint gonna work for everquest players who are MMA fighters and part time models/investment bankers such as myself. Can't we have some sort of happy medium?

Edit: great post Sirken

[Tonomar]

Hot pockets N diapers or nothin.

[SearyxTZ]

Diapers? That's so 2010 bro.

Check it

http://www.amazon.com/Bedside-Commode-Toilet-Chair-Frame/dp/B000JEQP8S

[Lasher]

http://imaging.cmpmedica.com/consultantlive/7830-02-01/wyd_51/0606ConWD51Ind.jpg

100% liquid diet will ensure you can stay parked infront of computer. If you move computer close to windo can just have the tube drain outside

[Knuckle]

Diaperquest till level 50 + profit. Fight people when you're running w/ a group or when you get some resist gear.

And if running solo, yeah, you should probably just bend over. Pick fights you know you can win (i.e. only against pure melees)

i literally just giggled like a teenage girl when i saw 'diaperquest'. Classic tilly

I agree 100% with that strategy especially as ill be rolling as a warrior or SK.

[Miller]

Is the staff accepting applications??????
I can't wait!

[Leftoverture]

please consider this upstanding fellow i know him to be trustworthy in all regards

[Miller]

Thank you for your support friedn

[Snufz]

Good times.

PS any of my pals pm me my AIM tag.. Smashed my old comp and forgot it.

[Mrcurtloco]

THEY'VE BEEN THE SAME FUCKING HOTSPOTS FOR 12 YEARS, THEY AREN'T GOING TO CHANGE

Seriously that is the absolutely worst fucking excuse for yellow text

yeah I also know where all 7 wonders of the world are but what I dont know is, who is there and at what time?

who, what,where,when and why

im sure you have heard of that before

so since we know the where, the rest is meaningless, I think this is what you should of said about yourself


Seriously that is the absolutely worst fucking excuse against yellow text

[zixxer]

Global OOC / Yellow Text – Global OOC is/was/will be a bad idea, just as it was on VZTZ. I know a lot of people “play for the ooc” but imo, that’s not how u play EQ, and the rest of the server generally doesn’t give a shit, sorry pals, take it to tells, or, grow a pair of balls and go to the zone with your enemies and talk shit to them in the zone. Global OOC had to be turned off LOTSA times for various reasons (garbage content, extreme spam to try and crash the players, etc), Furthermore there were quite a few players on VZTZ that had their OOC privileges revoked. ATTN PLAYERS, remember OOC is like a drivers license, IT’S A PRIVLEGE, NOT A RIGHT. As far as Yellow Text goes – firstly STAFF, you WANT to be able to see zone wide yellow text so you know exactly when and where PvP is popping off, and exactly where to go and who to watch at a moment’s notice. As far as Yellow Text for players (if it’s possible to do this even I’m not sure), if YT is server wide, it will be used to grief… but, if you can keep YT as player visible only as a zone wide feature everyone wins and everyone is happy. (basically GMs see YT server wide, but players see YT as zone wide).


I don't understand this argument, can't you just make a new chat screen and have it not show world ooc?

I like reading the trash talking when I'm regaining my mana....

[Harrison]

We are not recreating VZTZ.

VZTZ 'regulars(?)', you may be the most vocal majority on the forums at the moment, but at r99 server release, you won't be the majority of the playerbase.

We are not recreating VZTZ.

Do not have this expectation.



sources: p99 project manager, pvper, former vztz player

[purist]

There used to be global OOC on P99 and had to be shut off because Harrison would not stop telling everyone his unsolicited opinion on everything on it.

[Harrison]

There used to be global OOC on P99 and had to be shut off because Harrison would not stop telling everyone his unsolicited opinion on everything on it.

Population size was the cause.

You still butthurt that you got made fun of regularly, however, is fucking hilarious to me.

[Tonomar]

Population size was the cause.

You still butthurt that you got made fun of regularly, however, is fucking hilarious to me.

Harrison knows all. He's a god damn E-jesus.