Item loot from a casual players perspective.

[Crenshinabon]

I played on RZ back in 99. I played a shadowknight before they even had their lifetap series of spells. Pvp was the best here than I know of in any video game.

I hear a lot of people saying that it is a casters advantage to have item loot and the game will have nothing but casters. Well first off, there will always be more casters than melee even with non pvp loot. Second, all the melee will start with no real gear anyways and most the gear has AC which doesnt help vs casters anyways. Now with everyone being naked melee will hit casters harder, and casters will have less mana to use on spells.

It really does even out.

Now on to twinks and PKs. It was always a rush trying to kill a twink knowing you might get a bad ass piece of gear off them. This is good for anyone. It will make people want to try and kill the twink and take the gear as opposed to just running away. With no item loot, you kill the twink then what? Hes back in 5 minutes doing the exact same thing. It will also discourage twink with chance you will get ganked. I always loved trying to ban togather to kill people who thought they were invincible wearing all their gear. It is a huge rush.

I remember I would always try to find obscure areas to level in so I could put my gear on. I had so much fun exploring around looking for some cool spots to level. Also you can always wear a few pieces of gear that is easily bagable as long as you don't have all your good gear on.

Really item loot is the best there is. Real incentive to pvp. And not to mention incentive to doing obscure no drop armor quest. I remember I loved the Lguk area because of Shin armor being no drop.

I am not sure why all the hate on item loot when most people have never even tried it.

The only thing I see being a problem is the level range would need to be a bit smaller so you would not get ganked by someone 8 lvls above you in no time. Also there was a problem with groupmemebers dropping group and killing you. This would be remedied by just having it so i you group with someone you cannot pk them for at least a minute or two.

I am PRO item loot. Please get this in!

[Rushmore]

NO.

for the fucking last time unless you want to play on a server with 30 people this will not happen.

If this server ever does release there will be 60-100 people on during max hours.

[Crenshinabon]

Man I really doubt that.
There are a fkton of people waiting on this server.
Even VZTZ Emu back in the day had more than you are saying.

Stop being such a troll/downer. Damn.

And reading your wanted rules, keeping ooc serverwide in. I now officially discredit you.
Also why do you even need to put in FFA in planes? Do I need to even explain this?

[gloinz]

NO.

for the fucking last time unless you want to play on a server with 30 people this will not happen.

If this server ever does release there will be 60-100 people on during max hours.

hey look its a bluebie nostradamus

[Amuk]

Dunno how to phrase this, but you sound like a noob Crensh, fine item loot won't effect the crushbone pvp when melees are wearing patchwork, you're correct there.

Don't need to get into the list of actual items that require days/weeks to obtain that people won't be able to wear, or will wear and get hate wanded down or ivandyr hooped into losing, among many other greasey shit. The arguments old people know what they want or don't - Nilbog/Rogean will decide for themselves.

[Crenshinabon]

Not many items in classic take that long to get at level 50 and the ones that do are no drop.

If you are wearing your cloak of flames / fbss / slimeblood or something else that has taken you forever to get and get ganked you deserve to lose it. You just gotta learn who to trust.

Its all about if you should wear things or not.

How does this make me sound like a "noob"

[Amuk]

Fbss tranix crown cof mithril armor resist gear, bloodstained mantle dwarven ringmail tunic, ssb or literally any other piece of gear that make a melee viable can be taken.

[Amuk]

You found obscure places to level in so you could wear your gear, sounds cool.

[Rushmore]

Man I really doubt that.
There are a fkton of people waiting on this server.
Even VZTZ Emu back in the day had more than you are saying.

Stop being such a troll/downer. Damn.

And reading your wanted rules, keeping ooc serverwide in. I now officially discredit you.
Also why do you even need to put in FFA in planes? Do I need to even explain this?

A) the server probably won't happen. Especially since the chaos on the Blue Server has started.
B) there are a fukton of people waiting on the server? If there is!!! most will quit once they see it takes 2 days to level to 10. IF there is xp loss on pvp death much will quit sooner than that. If there is item loot most might not even play.
C)VZTZ max population was around 250...minus the two boxing,3 boxing etc going on....120ish? maybe.... and that didn't last for long

I'm not trolling you... And I'm sorry to be a downer but these are facts sir.

I really don't care about the rules I just want a server to play on but many like me who have played on vztz for the past 4 years know what works and what doesn't.

FFA for planes just cus once Kunark rolls someone 54 should be able to kill a 45 rez box in Fear, etc. (if the +/- 8 pvp range, etc)

[Salty]

C)VZTZ max population was around 250...minus the two boxing,3 boxing etc going on....120ish? maybe.... and that didn't last for long


try 300-400 concurrent for 4-5 months

[Bardalicious]

Oh boy... rushmore trying to sound like he knows what he's talking about.

RZ had a huge following. 30 people? Ha ha fucking ha. I assure you if there was a legit RZ recreation that not only would it be successful but that it would pull a large population.

Stop impressing your VZTZ logic'd opinions onto the fate of Red99. Let me ask you something. If item loot is such a deterrant to get people to join a server, why was RZ one of the most popular PVP servers? Also, why was Discord, a server that not only raped you in the ass with deleveling you to 1 on any PVP or PVE death but ALSO included item loot ALSO so popular?

Believe it or not - people like a challenge. It produces an adrenaline rush, just like the OP was insinuating. It is addictive. The weak do not survive, that is true. But then, if you're going to rage quit because I stole a fucking pair of gatorscale sleeves from you, you don't belong in PVP anyways. The intelligent band together for protection and get even when something like that happens. It's been discussed to fucking death already. RZ had an anti-PK following exactly for players like you that were afraid of the challenge. End of story.

[Bardalicious]

If this server ever does release there will be 60-100 people on during max hours.

Dude, just stop posting here, please. You're a fucking embarrassment to us PVPers.

[Crenshinabon]

The intelligent band together for protection and get even when something like that happens. RZ had an anti-PK following exactly for players like you

This.
This also won't happen as much with less extreme penalties.

I also would not say that the Anti PKs did not love to fight. I was an "anti" and I fkin loved to fight. It was awesome to always /who and see if there were any known PKs in the zone. I just felt like there was a playstyle difference. I just did not like to own everyone I saw. It was fun to go against each other in this manner.

I also feel like this was inspired by the harsh death penalties.

[Rushmore]

try 300-400 concurrent for 4-5 months

False. After 3 boxing 2 boxing etc what was the population?

[Bardalicious]

I also feel like this was inspired by the harsh death penalties.

Yep, it was. The anti-PK mindset was pretty exclusive to RZ, and I doubt that it will be given birth on this server without item loot. XP loss may come close, but unless it is substantial, it wont matter. Especially if a cleric is allowed to rez PVP deaths.

Instead we'll see the same old EMU PVP. Everyone killing anything that moves without any substantial penalty on death. No real reason to band together and form alliances except for end-game raiding. I am disappointed that I'll likely not relive the rush that was early RZ. I was fairly confident Nilbog would come through and make the server that I know he loved as well, but it doesn't look that way any more.

[Rushmore]

Bard it won't work. Once again I'm not against it. I just know it won't work for past experience on emu not 12 years ago. No one wants a bigger caster population than there will already be. No one wants naked PVP battles. If you don't respect my opinion fair enough. But every Major Vztz vet has spoken the same thing.

There is NO reason to play without a healthy population.

And it will be END OF STORY if item loot is in once the server goes live.

[Crenshinabon]

I am still confident in the devs ability to make an awesome server. And I will play it nonetheless. Especially considering it will be classic xp rates and hopefully lots of people will want the same thing and play. Just givin my input on item loot hoping to maybe sway~ I know that item loot is hard mode, but if anyone can do it these guys can. I also feel like this would be the most fun and people just don't realize it.

Nil and Rogean know their shit. They been producing it for years and could probably even identify it by smell alone. Now to just throw pvp into the mix. Everyone else will come flocking just to see their shit.

Make it happen!~

Edit: Just thought maybe try item loot in beta? See if people like it. If not, knock it down to coin or xp death or whatever else you want.

[Rushmore]

I am still confident in the devs ability to make an awesome server. And I will play it nonetheless. Especially considering it will be classic xp rates and hopefully lots of people will want the same thing and play. Just givin my input on item loot hoping to maybe sway~ I know that item loot is hard mode, but if anyone can do it these guys can. I also feel like this would be the most fun and people just don't realize it.

Nil and Rogean know their shit. They been producing it for years and could probably even identify it by smell alone. Now to just throw pvp into the mix. Everyone else will come flocking just to see their shit.

Make it happen!~

I just want a good successful server too mate.

[Bardalicious]

Bard it won't work. Once again I'm not against it. I just know it won't work for past experience on emu not 12 years ago. No one wants a bigger caster population than there will already be. No one wants naked PVP battles. If you don't respect my opinion fair enough. But every Major Vztz vet has spoken the same thing.

There is NO reason to play without a healthy population.

And it will be END OF STORY if item loot is in once the server goes live.

You are stating your "opinions" as if they are fact. You are worse than an idiot. At least idiots hold their own opinions. You flip flop and get behind whatever you perceive to be the "popular" opinion to try to fit in with the VZTZ crowd, which by the way, has and never will accept you because you're a fucking terrible player.

I base MY opinion on many years of an ACTUAL server. Rallos Zek was successful. Discord was tremendously successful, even despite rampant hacking. Far more than the shitty servers these "VZTZ Vets" hail from. You disqualify yourself from contributing opinions because previous Emu boxes ALL FAILED. Open your fucking eyes for once in your life, you fucking fool.

These people are asking for a server that will last. VZTZ and other Emu boxes have shown, TIME AND TIME AGAIN, that they do not last. It seems the only thing we learn from history is that we DO NOT learn from history.

Stop acting like such a spineless pussy. Item loot adds a completely new element to the PVP scene, and even someone like you will adapt over time. Casters ALWAYS have the upper hand in PVP at the start of a server, yet as I'm sure someone like Knuckle can tell you, they falter and fail in the end. You have no valid argument. Stop using the same "omg it will hurt the population" argument because it is BASELESS. I don't give a shit if 10 other "VZTZ vets" are as spineless about real PVP as you are, it doesn't validate nor give proof to your opinion.

The early years of Rallos Zek and subsequently Discord was some of the most fun I've ever had in any game I've ever played. The rush behind potentially losing gear and potentially gaining it as well is well beyond putting into words. Of course, you'll never experience this because you've got tunnel vision and would rather play the same bullshit copy-n-pasted VZTZ8.0123.1 server.

[Tamiah2011]

You are stating your "opinions" as if they are fact. You are worse than an idiot. At least idiots hold their own opinions. You flip flop and get behind whatever you perceive to be the "popular" opinion to try to fit in with the VZTZ crowd, which by the way, has and never will accept you because you're a fucking terrible player.

I base MY opinion on many years of an ACTUAL server. Rallos Zek was successful. Discord was tremendously successful, even despite rampant hacking. Far more than the shitty servers these "VZTZ Vets" hail from. You disqualify yourself from contributing opinions because previous Emu boxes ALL FAILED. Open your fucking eyes for once in your life, you fucking fool.

These people are asking for a server that will last. VZTZ and other Emu boxes have shown, TIME AND TIME AGAIN, that they do not last. It seems the only thing we learn from history is that we DO NOT learn from history.

Stop acting like such a spineless pussy. Item loot adds a completely new element to the PVP scene, and even someone like you will adapt over time. Casters ALWAYS have the upper hand in PVP at the start of a server, yet as I'm sure someone like Knuckle can tell you, they falter and fail in the end. You have no valid argument. Stop using the same "omg it will hurt the population" argument because it is BASELESS. I don't give a shit if 10 other "VZTZ vets" are as spineless about real PVP as you are, it doesn't validate nor give proof to your opinion.

The early years of Rallos Zek and subsequently Discord was some of the most fun I've ever had in any game I've ever played. The rush behind potentially losing gear and potentially gaining it as well is well beyond putting into words. Of course, you'll never experience this because you've got tunnel vision and would rather play the same bullshit copy-n-pasted VZTZ8.0123.1 server.




Bardalicious is a complete oxy moron pay him no mind. I doult the noob will even have the balls to play pvp..

[Bardalicious]

This message is hidden because Tamiah2011 is on your ignore list.

[Tamiah2011]

You mad LadyBoy?, I only asked what your pvp name and server was..

[Humerox]

I also would not say that the Anti PKs did not love to fight. I was an "anti" and I fkin loved to fight. It was awesome to always /who and see if there were any known PKs in the zone. I just felt like there was a playstyle difference. I just did not like to own everyone I saw. It was fun to go against each other in this manner.

I also feel like this was inspired by the harsh death penalties.

amen.

[Titanuk]

NO.

for the fucking last time unless you want to play on a server with 30 people this will not happen.

If this server ever does release there will be 60-100 people on during max hours.

thats more than enough tcrowns

[Rushmore]

You are worse than an idiot. At least idiots hold their own opinions.

the VZTZ crowd, which by the way, has and never will accept you because you're a fucking terrible player.

you fucking fool.

Stop acting like such a spineless pussy.

http://www.oddjack.com/wp-content/tim_tebow8.jpg

I will pray for you bro

[Bardalicious]

I will pray for you bro


Congrats on side-stepping a valid argument, which only validates my points. You've got no substance behind your claims and cling only to "omg but my VZTZ PALS (lolz not really) say this will work so it's true!!" while you secretly hope they will come to accept you for siding with them.

Fail more bro.

[Rushmore]

I tell you what.... I'm hanging in IRC if you wanna debate c'mon.

[Crenshinabon]

whoa easy there guys, no need to get crazy bros.

[fiegi]

http://coedbc.files.wordpress.com/2011/06/tebow-golf-st-jude-copy.jpg

Does he realize QB's aren't supposed to look like defensive ends??

[Musori]

I will defenetly play if its RZ rules, maby not with 8+- lvl range..or to be honest i would play with any kind of rules if you have the coin + item loot.

I must say i am with Bard on this one..

And for all the VZ/TZ veterans in our ("RZ vets") eyes you guys are as bluebii as blue can be =)

But my gut feeling for moste emu servers are that the majority of players are "role players" and not relly "gamers"..

Well well.. its a dream and a hope, but it wont relly hapend =)

Rallos zek rules and allow boxing would make my dreams come true. Its been on my wish list to santa since 2005.

[Tajin]

NO.

for the fucking last time unless you want to play on a server with 30 people this will not happen.

If this server ever does release there will be 60-100 people on during max hours.

ur dumb, the server wont be 30 people lol, this server is being built up to be the most epic pvp server since old live... anything rogean/nil put there stamp on will suceed, item loot will not deter people. People just need to play better!!

[Mrcurtloco]

rush knows nothing, comming from a community 4+ years old, also

considering the fact that a large portion, or the core of this server will largly

be made up of vztz players, Now what ever the consensus of the vztz

community is it should be ignored because that makes the most dimes and

nickels.

most vztz isnt against item loot, why you may ask?...cuz they will get loot

and in doing so run all the blues or people that havnt played pvp in x years

off the server, vztz community is better they live it. If you want to make it

an exclusive vztz only server, plz please pryz pleeeeaaaase! make it item loot

[Smedy]

Only reason i don't support item loot is because eq pvp is balanced for shit.

Casters can kill shit naked, melees can't do shit. Pretty much the only reason.

[Mrcurtloco]

Only reason i don't support item loot is because eq pvp is balanced for shit.

Casters can kill shit naked, melees can't do shit. Pretty much the only reason.
I was trying to sound as stupid as everyone else in this thread

you want a live server wilksmedy not a dead one item loot makes it a dead

one

Im in the boat bro, the good for the server one

[mitic]

I was trying to sound as stupid as everyone else in this thread

you want a live server wilksmedy not a dead one item loot makes it a dead

one

Im in the boat bro, the good for the server one

hope u are starting a mele if an item loot server comes up so i can kill you nonstop semiafk with jabober. jabober will be happy to wear your used bronze armor while i keep running around nakid blasting them screaming meles

[Mrcurtloco]

hope u are starting a mele if an item loot server comes up so i can kill you nonstop semiafk with jabober. jabober will be happy to wear your used bronze armor while i keep running around nakid blasting them screaming meles

im ok with item loot, it will be fun for a month

....but id rather it be fun for 6 or a year or 2

but ill bet that id be playing item loot longer than you would, at least you

acknowledge that you have no chance at me as a caster...

[mitic]

im ok with item loot, it will be fun for a month

....but id rather it be fun for 6 or a year or 2

but ill bet that id be playing item loot longer than you would, at least you

acknowledge that you have no chance at me as a caster...

i see you forget something:

it wont last for a month. it will last until planes are released with class no drop armor but first u gota reach 46. good luck on that as a mele!

whats the best you will get as a mele the first half year? skarlons? mith2h? ssoys?

bow dmg in classic? lol.

no disciplines either the first months/year

trust me, server will be full of casters as soon meles realize that they dont stand a chance in classic with item loot activated

[Mrcurtloco]

No way mitic only 1 person is gunna play a mage lol

[Tamiah2011]

Only reason i don't support item loot is because eq pvp is balanced for shit.

Casters can kill shit naked, melees can't do shit. Pretty much the only reason.

lol, you ever played pvp , magic does very little after you build MR up so please stfu.

[Mrcurtloco]

lol, you ever played pvp , magic does very little after you build MR up so please stfu.

so no FR,CR,PR,DR in classic?

[Foxx]

lol, you ever played pvp , magic does very little after you build MR up so please stfu.

this man is **CLEARLY** a pvp expert bros

[mitic]

magic does very little after you build MR up so please stfu.

depends how the resist system is build by the server staff. classic nonplanar armor/equipment gives 100ish MR (without buffs) at best. and with item loot even less since meles will be undressed by casters nonstop

[Bardalicious]

depends how the resist system is build by the server staff. classic nonplanar armor/equipment gives 100ish MR (without buffs) at best. and with item loot even less since meles will be undressed by casters nonstop

*cough cough* nodrop armor, fighting in groups, bagging droppables if/when needed. And of course this becomes moot at a certain point when you've got resist gear sufficient to steamroll a caster.

l2p-rz-pvp

[Foxx]

*cough cough* nodrop armor, fighting in groups, bagging droppables if/when needed. And of course this becomes moot at a certain point when you've got resist gear sufficient to steamroll a caster.

l2p-rz-pvp

spoken like a true bluebie

[iRFNA]

insides of bags need to be lootable and all no drop tags removed, 1 item loot per death

fuck your pixels and your grinding

[Amuk]

I'm really over this argument, just means I'll play a different class if it's item loot.

I'll make sure to post the lawl I just hooped my group mates fbss in RNF.

[Bardalicious]

spoken like a true bluebie

Bluebie because I fight for item looting while the rest of you pussies cry about the thought of losing your pixels?

[zixxer]

I played on RZ for the first 4 years it was out with item loot, and that was the most fun I've ever had playing a mmorpg. The intensity that I use to feel during pvp fights was unbelievable. The way it changed with the addition of no drop or servers with just coin loot, who really cares if you win or lose? So boring....

[gloinz]

I played on RZ for the first 4 years it was out with item loot, and that was the most fun I've ever had playing a mmorpg. The intensity that I use to feel during pvp fights was unbelievable. The way it changed with the addition of no drop or servers with just coin loot, who really cares if you win or lose? So boring....

imo the long road to get ur corpse/xp loss/coin loot/getting cc'ed/getting pked along the way by some other person for the lol/etc is more then enough punishment for the girlymen of the server to handle. id rather have a big pop then just hardcore ppl imo

[Rushmore]

imo the long road to get ur corpse/xp loss/coin loot/getting cc'ed/getting pked along the way by some other person for the lol/etc is more then enough punishment for the girlymen of the server to handle. id rather have a big pop then just hardcore ppl imo

what the pvp champ said

[Yukahwa]

People that will quit over items will also quit over non item loss PVP deaths.

Server pop will hurt when people trying to grind run into people 8 levels above them maxed out in unlootable gear. With 8 level PVP range it means it is going to take 16 damn levels to get out of PVP range from a twinked clown.

Guy that want no item loot are obviously pansys or want to have free reign on griefing once they hit 50 with their mains and can start making twinks. You're sacrificing the entire rest of the game in the name of allowing people to wear mithril greaves when they get them. Gimmie a break.

[Bardalicious]

People that will quit over items will also quit over non item loss PVP deaths.

Server pop will hurt when people trying to grind run into people 8 levels above them maxed out in unlootable gear. With 8 level PVP range it means it is going to take 16 damn levels to get out of PVP range from a twinked clown.

Guy that want no item loot are obviously pansys or want to have free reign on griefing once they hit 50 with their mains and can start making twinks. You're sacrificing the entire rest of the game in the name of allowing people to wear mithril greaves when they get them. Gimmie a break.

QFT

I'd be far more concerned about the VZTZ crowd trying to shit on "bluebies" every chance they get, just for the lulz, with or without item loot, than I'd ever be about some guy quitting because he had a bronze BP looted off him. I mean shit, people like Salty (massive bluebie himself btw) are already trying to make lists of people to grief. These are the people that pride themselves on trying to dwindle the population because of a 'lol i made u rage quit' mentality.

The community that populates the server will affect the longevity of the server far more than anything else will. I can only hope that the VZTZ side is balanced out by enough real PVPers and "bluebies", else we will likely see the same old people trying to grief the population away til there's only those ~50-100 people left logging in on any given night.

And yes, a few months into the server we will likely see twinks popping up. When you can stay at level ~10-14 and bind in gfay with a full set of unlootable twink gear, what exactly will deter you from steamrolling lowbies 24/7? At least on RZ the undergeared could band together and potentially benefit from fighting them off.

[JayDee]

lol, you ever played pvp

Do you get some kind of gratification pretending you have participated in pvp

[Titanuk]

Do you get some kind of gratification pretending you have participated in pvp

says the man that left the pvp server for the blue server cuz it got 2 hard out there for him. o and he got banned for cheating

[JayDee]

love you too bro

[Amuk]

Item loot = naked/no drop toon wars, except for sure wins which = noobs getting shit on.

boooooring.

[zixxer]

Item loot = naked/no drop toon wars, except for sure wins which = noobs getting shit on.

boooooring.

I don't know who ever ran around naked pvping, I never saw em, I for one always wore gear because I didn't want to get rooted or snared....along with the best possible cold and fire resists helped as well... Naked = almost guaranteed loss.

[coki]

Ready for a True Story?

Once upon a time when EQ Live first came out, there was a server called Vallon Zek, In the beginning Vallon Zek was item/coin loot in pvp. It was fun and many people had fun times running around and quickly bagging all their gear asap when they were either outnumbered or the person after them was 6+ lvs higher, or they just finished killing a mob and had 50% hp or mana....Many people complained about the item loot, and Thus the Tallon Zek character transfer was born and for a week or 2 straight GM's had a server wide message on Vallon when you logged in that said something like " A new server Tallon Zek is being made with the same pvp rules as Vallon except coin loot only, If you would like to transfer your character over to that server please send a petition with w/e information it was, and we will transfer your character over within a day or two. ....Well it just so happens that around 3/4 the population of Vallon petitioned to have their chars moved over and so the GM's were like fuck that we are just going to make Vallon zek Coin loot only, and they did... The end

I personally had a lot of fun in the old days of Vallon Zek being item/coin loot, ...would i want to do that again? probably not..but it was a thrilling/heart-pounding experience nonetheless

[Foxx]

Ready for a True Story?

Once upon a time when EQ Live first came out, there was a server called Vallon Zek, In the beginning Vallon Zek was item/coin loot in pvp. It was fun and many people had fun times running around and quickly bagging all their gear asap when they were either outnumbered or the person after them was 6+ lvs higher, or they just finished killing a mob and had 50% hp or mana....Many people complained about the item loot, and Thus the Tallon Zek character transfer was born and for a week or 2 straight GM's had a server wide message on Vallon when you logged in that said something like " A new server Tallon Zek is being made with the same pvp rules as Vallon except coin loot only, If you would like to transfer your character over to that server please send a petition with w/e information it was, and we will transfer your character over within a day or two. ....Well it just so happens that around 3/4 the population of Vallon petitioned to have their chars moved over and so the GM's were like fuck that we are just going to make Vallon zek Coin loot only, and they did... The end

I personally had a lot of fun in the old days of Vallon Zek being item/coin loot, ...would i want to do that again? probably not..but it was a thrilling/heart-pounding experience nonetheless

tldr.. cool story bro, nobody cares

[mitic]

tldr.. cool story bro, nobody cares

ya, sometimes its hard to accept the truth

[Mrcurtloco]

says the man that left the pvp server for the blue server cuz it got 2 hard out there for him. o and he got banned for cheating

Jaydee would probly rape you with small hands and half a nut, careful.......

[JayDee]

irl

[Humerox]

QFT

I'd be far more concerned about the VZTZ crowd trying to shit on "bluebies" every chance they get, just for the lulz, with or without item loot, than I'd ever be about some guy quitting because he had a bronze BP looted off him. I mean shit, people like Salty (massive bluebie himself btw) are already trying to make lists of people to grief. These are the people that pride themselves on trying to dwindle the population because of a 'lol i made u rage quit' mentality.

The community that populates the server will affect the longevity of the server far more than anything else will. I can only hope that the VZTZ side is balanced out by enough real PVPers and "bluebies", else we will likely see the same old people trying to grief the population away til there's only those ~50-100 people left logging in on any given night.

And yes, a few months into the server we will likely see twinks popping up. When you can stay at level ~10-14 and bind in gfay with a full set of unlootable twink gear, what exactly will deter you from steamrolling lowbies 24/7? At least on RZ the undergeared could band together and potentially benefit from fighting them off.

This is the kind of situation where corpse-camping would be an appropriate PvP response. Without item loot it would be the only viable tactic.

'Course I think item loot should exclude melee weapon slots. Just my humble opinion.

[Harrison]

Item loot is far more damaging to a smaller section of classes than the rest, so the next point is even worse due to it.
EQ pvp is already terribly balanced. This will make it infinitely worse, and always has.
Item loot was the least popular option of ANY live server that existed.
Item loot excluding primary, secondary, and ranged is far more acceptable. (though it's still fucktarded to melee while virtually ignored by casters of any sort)
Item loot will just promote naked caster ganksquads. Everyone knows this from experience.
Item loot is just another scream from the crybaby minority for more mechanics that promote abuse and griefing over actual pvp.
Item loot, modified correctly, is the only option viable. If it's all out "loot anything they have" it's just going to be fucking retarded.

Minority crybaby whinebitch opinions:
Training allowed
No GMs ever
Corpse camping allowed
Bind camping allowed
No rules at all
Item looting with the above all allowed

This sounds fun, guys. It really does. :rolleyes:
These are absolutely fucking horrid suggestions.

[Musori]

Well i know i wasent alone in enjoying every second of Rallos zek, maby becuse it was my first server that i played on or maby becuse the dynamics of the pvp appeled to me. With item loot you never forget a name =)

Yes i was sad when i lost a BD-bracer when i went afk 20 sec outside velketors labyrint to grab a coffe.. but what comes around goes around. I atlest had the name of the char who did it =) Ither i could hunt him down and try make his day missarably or i could go on exping farming cash to buy a new one..

With just coin loot and some silly exp penelty i wouldent even have remeberd the incident... just goten a rez and be on with whatever i was doing..

[Crenshinabon]

Harrison you sound mad in almost all your post bro. Just sayin.
Also by saying Item Loot I am referring to not being able to loot hand items.

Harrison, also me and I know a lot of other people want this and do not want all that other crap you mentioned. I am opposed to griefing, want GMs to help in extreme conditions (with raid ending trains mostly) Most stuff should be self goverened with the small issues like corpse camping. Just log off for a bit and play someone else, you have been beaten in pvp that day, lol.

Non weapon item loot is the way to go. Should just try it if there is a beta see how it works. If no beta, then lets just play! =P


Also RZ was booming in pop till safe zones etc was introduced. Loved every minute of it and have been unable to find that pre Luclin era EQ feel again, ever.

[Sniperfire]

item loot will hurt the server period most vets want it in but it will make it hard for new people to join the server BUT that being said we were playing on a server will terrible drop rates im sure if drop rates are higher than where we were it would be fine

[Spike Spiegel]

Yeah item loot sux for sure its way nicer just getting to poop all over noobs and not even worry about it. I love owning and then just going AFK and coming back looting my stuff and totally pwning again.

what can I say its the bomb. Also +- 10-20 level limit is best cuz fighting someone within like 5 levels is way hard. When I'm level 40 and fight a level 25 its way way better.

No item loot cuz its too hard on rogues. Mithril is so good but also so shiney. I dont want to get killed.

We gotta make this server the same as P99 blue to help server population guys. I think that it would be even better with just a good /duel system and not even random unorganized PVP that always gets you killed when you are just PVEing

[Clyve]

I'm gonna play a paladin, so I expect to be hounded by casters all the time, but I still want 1 equipment slot (non melee) loot.

I don't want a bunch of griefing or anything else like that, I just want to recreate that dangerous immersion that was Rallos Zek.

[Tewaz]

Item loot except weapons and everyone respawns with weapons. Boom /thread.

[Bardalicious]

I'm gonna play a paladin, so I expect to be hounded by casters all the time, but I still want 1 equipment slot (non melee) loot.

I don't want a bunch of griefing or anything else like that, I just want to recreate that dangerous immersion that was Rallos Zek.

Stated like a real PVPer.

[XiakenjaTZ]

I want to recreate the real immersion that was Tallon Zek.

Coin only please. Bagging gear is lame.

Though, if for some reason it is item loot then lets not be pussies and let people loot from your bags as well. Get rid of the reason to bag your gear.

[Bardalicious]

I want to recreate the real immersion that was Tallon Zek.

Coin only please. Bagging gear is lame.

Though, if for some reason it is item loot then lets not be pussies and let people loot from your bags as well. Get rid of the reason to bag your gear.

Bagging gear created the needed balance between up and coming melees and naked casters. Why fuck with something that we know worked as-is?

[XiakenjaTZ]

because it would ruin my "immersion" if I can't go through someone's bags... but seriously...

Really I was just voicing my opinion that I think bagging is lame. If there is the need to bag things then there is something wrong with the whole concept of item loot.

My vote is for coin only.

[nilbog]

"I think" item loot is good.
" " no drop items shouldn't be lootable.
" " primary/secondary should not be lootable.
" " droppable bagged items should be lootable.
" " fatigue/stamina system should function for melee.
" " casters shouldn't be able to simply duck to interrupt spells.
" " casters shouldn't be able to meditate without an open spellbook till lvl 35.


If I eqemu pvped, these are some of the things I would want.

[fistses]

Item loot really depends on the rarity of items that drop in game, if its like live... item loot is fine.. if its super rare to get items in PVE, item loot is bad. PVP is a lot better when both sides wear items. In item loot, nobody wears items except people who dont suck(so 95% of you pussies will be naked 24/7 nut hugging a zone line to protect your 50 copper.)

[Tewaz]

Either spawn melees with weapons on death, or make caster mana zero in death = problem solved.

[XiakenjaTZ]

I agree with Nilbog if there was going to be item loot.

I do not want item loot.

[zixxer]

Unfortunately for me I played on RZ for the first 4 years with Item loot and know how exciting pvp can be....and now I'm jaded and will never have that much fun again...

Damn you RZ!

[Silentone]

Not a Pvp'er although I am somewhat interested. But is it possible to implement a book of discord type of the deal for item loot? like people who turn in the book are able to be looted/and can in respect loot items from a pvp kill? and vice versa people who dont turn in the book cannot loot items from people they kill and they can not be looted. And indicate these people with the color of their name, so that when two people who see each other and are of the same pvp style the know if dying winning will result in item loot? However if two people are diffrent colors neither will lose or win loot... just a thought i know my thought was sorta spewed out sorry for the rambeling.

[Yukahwa]

Unfortunately that would really mean there isn't a lot of incentive to turn the book in, and no one would until they were done grinding and at that point..why turn it in since no one else has and by that level you have a lot to lose by turning it in.

I agree with nilbog except for the bagged items. I think that one can imagine bagged items are like items stashed in random places like bushes while someone runs away like a coward. Just pretend the items are hidden and not simply in the lol..8 backpacks a person carries.

I played on rallos zek too and I wish everyone could have. Actually needing to remain vigilant while playing a game was just a blast. Hunting twinks was a lot of fun too. For me, a server with PVP and no item loot is PVE with the added inconvenience of sometimes getting killed when you are leveling up. The only benefit is that raid guilds can police themselves by killing eachother.

And at raid level you will be getting into a good selection of no drop gear so item loot becomes less of an issue for all of you PVE oriented guys that don't want item loot. PVP levels 1-40 just isn't any fun for a non twink when you are forced to engage twinks that you can never punish by ganging up and taking their gear. Think about it.

[Buhbuh]

This is still a debate?

Look, both sides have legitimate pros and cons. I could go either way. The only thing that stops me, along with almost everyone else that has played VZTZ, is having tested item loot once before and watching it fail monumentally.

I will give Bardalicious that this server is different from VZTZ. But if we're both willing to concede that, there should be no problem in conceding that this server is also going to be entirely different from the way RZ was.

The community will not act in the same way that a community did 11 years ago. There may be an anti-PK or roleplaying guild, but it doesn't mean that it will endure or even be remotely relevant or parallel to this utopic sort of RZ nostalgia you're admonishing the GM's to go through with.

I think (I don't know for sure) that it has been pretty well laid out by popular opinion that an 8+/- level range is what most people want to see. Not everyone does, but I'd say most-- at least for the sake of argument. The rules are still probably a toss up between player made/ minor GM intervention in severe cases.

But take into account what item loot means for the entire form (not to mention the population) of a server being completely different, more experienced, and more savvy to the game's mechanics. What does that mean?

Simply put, it means that as much as you would like to see an RZ-esque server functioning the same way that RZ did, it will never happen. There's way, way too many variables to consider and reconsider after a decade has passed.

How does item loot effect people with a higher level range than RZ had? With no rules, what stops a player from training another player as a means to help the attacker get the kill shot quickly, in order to get loot? What other potential exploits aren't you looking at that you and I both know will be found and exploited without mercy if found? What if a player is killed, LnS is granted, and mid-looting they're steamrolled again (i.e. being deceived and losing more loot)? Is that a clause of responsibility left up to players? How will blind spell lines effect item loot with a newer, more diverse resist system? How will the resist system in general effect PvP on a grand scale? Will another class outshine another with ease? Do some classes not sharing the same amount of risk in PvP as other classes pose a problem with item loot? Are mages with a stack of malachite sharing the same risk as a fully geared Rogue with haste?

Basically, are there flaws and inherent exploits no matter how you look at item loot?

I understand that you, personally, are probably okay and have come to terms or answered most of those questions for yourself. And that's fine. You are allowed to voice your opinion. I would love item loot too. But I'm not looking at it and fervently trying to make it implemented on this server, because if we're only voicing opinions, we're leaving no room for potential downfalls or consequences.

And since both you and I, and most of the community here, are somewhat "in the know" with past boxes, I think we're somewhat obligated to create a lasting server. I'd be all about item loot if it created something even remotely sustainable. But the difference between you and I, Barda, is that I hold the population and the welfare of the server at a higher standard than my own viewpoint.

So, yeah. Argue it up about item loot. I just don't think it's something that will last. Hell, try it in beta. See how it works.

[Knuckle]

I think item loot works well if the item rate was a higher percent droprate than p99.

[Amuk]

I like character progression and farming gear, two thumbs down to playing my toons half naked.

[iRFNA]

no item loot = twinks destroying all low-mid level pvp

the only argument against item loot that isn't based on bluebie e-penis grinding is the unbalance with melee vs casters

[Amuk]

Yea lets be real that crushbone emperor room camp means everything.

[Hobby]

Item loot for worn items would be fine. Bagged items, no.

Get to wear your shit and hopefully not get blinded while trying to bag your shit...

Coin loot of course.

If you dont want to lose items, you either become damn good at bagging things or you go naked.


----

If item drops were much less rare, say instead of 18 hours of camping for FBSS its more like 2 hours, then I could see full item-loot...

But i've never been a fan of full loot. In any pvp type game, I've always favored 1 or 2 items looted.

You die, they have the choice of what to loot *not everything, just 1 or 2 items*


Anyways, regardless of what is chosen, I'll still play..atleast for awhile.

[iRFNA]

Yea lets be real that crushbone emperor room camp means everything.

the goal of a red server is to pvp, not level up to feel better about your inadequacies

not everyone is gonna poopsock and level to the max and go on raids

[Amuk]

I like guilds wars over dragons and zone control - not about ganken my 50 hour to camp item. That is just tedious and ghey, and since I plan to be a melee really hinders what I can use in pvp. Yeah I'd love to camp FBSS more than once that is what pvp is all about, or not wear one at all - both equally awsome choices.

[Amuk]

OH GOD CAN I FEEL THE RUSH OF RISKING 20 HOURS OF MY LIFE FOR ZERO REWARD AGAINST NAKED MAGES, I HOPE SO MY BRO IRFNA.

[Crenshinabon]

OH GOD CAN I FEEL THE RUSH OF RISKING 20 HOURS OF MY LIFE FOR ZERO REWARD AGAINST TWINK GRIEFERS, I HOPE SO MY BRO IRFNA.

Fixed for non item loot.

[Yukahwa]

OH GOD CAN I FEEL THE RUSH OF RISKING 20 HOURS OF MY LIFE FOR ZERO REWARD AGAINST NAKED MAGES, I HOPE SO MY BRO IRFNA.

You should probably play live

[zixxer]

I like guilds wars over dragons and zone control - not about ganken my 50 hour to camp item. That is just tedious and ghey, and since I plan to be a melee really hinders what I can use in pvp. Yeah I'd love to camp FBSS more than once that is what pvp is all about, or not wear one at all - both equally awsome choices.

Yes, because when you have to go camp the FBSS again it forces you to be put back into a pvp situation again. And does it really matter what your camping it's all relative anyway, your playing the game whether you camping a FBSS or something else....

[Crenshinabon]

Camps cause pvp. Pvp causes camps. Its awesome!

[Amuk]

Hate to say it but the best way to deal with a griefer twink, if you can't beat him - is just move along, there's lots of places to level and in the end, the zones don't matter.

[lethdar]

I for one look forward to a server where its too risky for a melee to ever wear anything ever and are permanently caster's bitches, except for the token monk the cast gank groups will bring along to disarm right as the triple ice comet hit to loot whatever sad weapon the otherwise naked melee was wearing.

[Yukahwa]

^ awesome dude. EQ PVP looks like the place for you.

Amuk - thats true and that is -usually- what will happen. Sometimes though a twink will get ganked and lose something valuable. Thats what is most important.

[Danien]

^ awesome dude. EQ PVP looks like the place for you.

Amuk - thats true and that is -usually- what will happen. Sometimes though a twink will get ganked and lose something valuable. Thats what is most important.

^

PvP from an Autistics perspective