Xp loss on death discourages solo pvps

[Sorath]

This makes me :(, Xp loss upon death needs to be removed before servers go live its not needed on a pvp server. That is all.

http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c273/Style888/lolss-1.jpg

[Amuk]

The more I think on this I can see the logic behind it. My first thought was people will avoid pvp if theyre casual or get majorly frustrated, but any serious player will be maxed 50 and have raids to bounce their exp back up.

At least this may prevent the non-stop naked bind rushing, and TBH the serious guild pvp is all I really care about, fuck the casuals.

[Sorath]

meh i can live with s small xp loss , just leveled up to scrawny gnoll lol

I be trollin

[hotstud]

If it's only like 1% or less on death it will be alright. Otherwise exp rate needs to be increased or exp loss from PvP removed.

[Ravenlof]

all i hear is qq

[Humerox]

discouraging solo play is a benefit.

[Sorath]

discouraging solo play is a benefit.


The art of solo pvp is the pennacle of pvp, the fun and adrenaline from solo pvp far outweighs any other sort of pvp.

[Crenshinabon]

Body is ready.
http://i1084.photobucket.com/albums/j416/Crenshinabon/kikas.png

Not too worried, Think its gonna be 2-3%. You die 10 times and its not even 1/3 of your level lost.
Plus we won't be dying THAT often. I would go into an unfair fight just because it can be fun knowing I might lose 3% xp. But shit, used to be I might lose an item I had.

You playin any beta? I am gonna test out some melee see how they fair.

*Edit* And Doors, there is a pretty solid anti xp loss grief machanic that Rogean is putting in.

[Doors]

Gonna be bind camping for the xp loss grief factor urdy?

[guineapig]

Gonna be bind camping for the xp loss grief factor urdy?

You would only loose XP on the first kill assuming the person being bind-camped doesn't click off the beneficial buff that will be protecting him from further exp loss.

[Sorath]

http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c273/Style888/bdyrdy.jpg

[mimixownzall]

The art of solo pvp is the pennacle of pvp, the fun and adrenaline from solo pvp far outweighs any other sort of pvp.

Nub

[Sorath]

Nub

not too bright are we...

[UncleOzzy]

There should never be exp. loss pvp, you got to keep it fun.There were many nights on RZ, I never left the gates of Qey for the pure fun of pvp.

[Tombom]

meh i can live with s small xp loss , just leveled up to scrawny gnoll lol

I be trollin

grats on the lvl up pal!

[Sorath]

Body is semi-ready

[georgie]

sorath was soooo bad on r69 did not know how to snare a pally... cmon now

[Morninx]

If there is an exp loss from pvp..only hope there is an exp gain. My only issue is why the classic experience? i understand these devs want the classic feel but the classic feel of RZ and SZ wasnt grinding out to gain levels.. it was the time spent killing each other... but thats just my opinion.. less grinding more griefing..

[dusk883]

If there is an exp loss from pvp..only hope there is an exp gain. My only issue is why the classic experience? i understand these devs want the classic feel but the classic feel of RZ and SZ wasnt grinding out to gain levels.. it was the time spent killing each other... but thats just my opinion.. less grinding more griefing..

so long as a 50 dings 49 upon pvp death, I think it'll keep the pvp win column more "important", more "epic" ...something along those lines. Something lost, something gained

[Sorath]

sorath was soooo bad on r69 did not know how to snare a pally... cmon now

this.

[georgie]

let the pix do the talkin' ic

[mokfarg]

There should never be exp. loss pvp, you got to keep it fun.There were many nights on RZ, I never left the gates of Qey for the pure fun of pvp.

If there is XP loss, why not provide XP gain from PvP kills? :D

[Sorath]

I like pixels

[Sorath]

ghdksvhkhjv

[Galacticus]

True. Xp loss makes people pvp less because some will avoid it so they don't loose xp. People will hide in dungeons and gate or camp out when a hit team zones in.

I personally like xp loss because I feel like it makes me killing you sweeter knowing your pve time spent grinding is wasted by me.

The real issue that people overlook in this issue is this:

Pvp xp loss only hurts those leveling up. Once you hit 50, it doesn't even matter.

So really, xp loss makes it harder for anyone to level here and favor people who get 50 first, which are usually the people that have no lives. It promotes those who hide in dungeons until max level and avoid pvp deaths until they don't matter especially if solo.

Nothing says pvp for the fun of pvp like not having an xp loss, but I guess this is about more then fun. To a lot of us it's about the challenge , to others prestige, and to others greifing.

It's hard to say why everyone wants to play, but if more people stay on the server because it's easier to level up or any reason, I am for supporting it.

[Ravenlof]

True. Xp loss makes people pvp less because some will avoid it so they don't loose xp. People will hide in dungeons and gate or camp out when a hit team zones in.

I personally like xp loss because I feel like it makes me killing you sweeter knowing your pve time spent grinding is wasted by me.

The real issue that people overlook in this issue is this:

Pvp xp loss only hurts those leveling up. Once you hit 50, it doesn't even matter.

So really, xp loss makes it harder for anyone to level here and favor people who get 50 first, which are usually the people that have no lives. It promotes those who hide in dungeons until max level and avoid pvp deaths until they don't matter especially if solo.

Nothing says pvp for the fun of pvp like not having an xp loss, but I guess this is about more then fun. To a lot of us it's about the challenge , to others prestige, and to others greifing.

It's hard to say why everyone wants to play, but if more people stay on the server because it's easier to level up or any reason, I am for supporting it.


yes

[Sorath]

http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c273/Style888/xploss.jpg

[Yukahwa]

LOL Sorrath..

Galacticus totally nailed it. The ruleset announced on homepage really just means anyone that doesn't grind 24/7 from release will be at a huge disadvantage. For every casual blue99'er checking out the server its going to be an easy decision to stay blue.

[Sorath]

Damn when did I ding orc ? Ballin

[Darwoth]

xp loss is a good thing, just as it was on sullon.

most folks clamoring for item loot never played past the 30s and dont remember how everybody was either naked or in no drop 99% of the time on RZ and risked nothing to match your resist gear etc.

xp loss made it so everybody risked the same, prevented bind rushing and helped keep folks blindly suicide rushing like a flailing gimp to a minimum.

no xp loss AND no loot would result in a watered down wow type pvp experience that would get stale quick.

[Sorath]

Too much order , not enough chaos. Order bad. Chaos gooood

[Galacticus]

xp loss is a good thing, just as it was on sullon.

most folks clamoring for item loot never played past the 30s and dont remember how everybody was either naked or in no drop 99% of the time on RZ and risked nothing to match your resist gear etc.

xp loss made it so everybody risked the same, prevented bind rushing and helped keep folks blindly suicide rushing like a flailing gimp to a minimum.

no xp loss AND no loot would result in a watered down wow type pvp experience that would get stale quick.

Sullon is very different from this server. For one, bind rushing can't exist here with the way things are set up with how you respawn from a pvp death. Not to mention how easy to drop a naked character is.

Everyone risked the same? How would you not risk the same if you didn't have xp loss? Either way it's the same for everyone.

Watered down pvp because your opponent doesn't lose an item that took hours to get? Or because your opponent doesn't lose hours of killing pve mobs? Exp has nothing to do with pvp other then a grieving mechanism.

I like to greif so like I said I don't care, but people not like me would - and I want to kill those guys.

[Kungen]

QQ more carebears.. XP LOSS FOR THE PEOPLE!

[lethdar]

OP is pretty dumb, exp loss doesn't discourage solo pvp unless your idea of solo pvp is charge in like a droolcup retard and try to kill someone seconds before you yourself die.

[istealbicycles]

This makes me :(, Xp loss upon death needs to be removed before servers go live its not needed on a pvp server. That is all.

http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c273/Style888/lolss-1.jpg

i dont think xp loss is in "classic" either. I might be wrong though

[Rushmore]

xp loss is a good thing, just as it was on sullon.

most folks clamoring for item loot never played past the 30s and dont remember how everybody was either naked or in no drop 99% of the time on RZ and risked nothing to match your resist gear etc.

xp loss made it so everybody risked the same, prevented bind rushing and helped keep folks blindly suicide rushing like a flailing gimp to a minimum.

no xp loss AND no loot would result in a watered down wow type pvp experience that would get stale quick.

Now this is how you debate. Thank you. I am a supporter of xp loss on pvp death now! But not item loot.

[Ravenlof]

Sullon is very different from this server. For one, bind rushing can't exist here with the way things are set up with how you respawn from a pvp death. Not to mention how easy to drop a naked character is.

Everyone risked the same? How would you not risk the same if you didn't have xp loss? Either way it's the same for everyone.

Watered down pvp because your opponent doesn't lose an item that took hours to get? Or because your opponent doesn't lose hours of killing pve mobs? Exp has nothing to do with pvp other then a grieving mechanism.

I like to greif so like I said I don't care, but people not like me would - and I want to kill those guys.

couldnt agree more

[Graym]

XP loss was not in classic, especially the servers they are trying to emulate (Vallon/Tallon). I just don't fucking understand why the people who make these servers decide to make their own rule changes and yet pawn it off like a classic experience.

On VZTZ the people there decided to completely change the resist rates, change how certain spells worked, changed the interrupt rate on melee etc. DRASTIC things that have a huge effect on how the game is played.

Here, they've done such a good job at fixing some of the retarded shit that existed on VZTZ but then they go and do something like this which is just as stupid. If you want a classic server, then it's pretty simple you try your best to get things to be as close as possible to Classic without making your own decisions as to how to change things.

There was no XP loss on Vallon and Tallon Zek, ergo there should no xp loss here. End of story, otherwise you don't have a classic server, you have another modified pile of shit like VZTZ that has some vague similarities to classic with their own bullshit stewed into the equation that may or may not be good for the server (this won't be good and will only hurt people leveling up later and will discourage pvp). There is no way to get everything perfect to classic, and I understand that, but this isn't a coding issue, this is someone making a DECISION to change things from how they were and that is where trouble comes in because what's next, they want to change spells / items to suit their own interests and we get further and further from the classic experience.

Either be loyal to the classic experience or don't, but considering how many people LIKED the classic experience, with all the good and the bad, why the fuck are people changing it?

[lethdar]

So you want a candyland pvp server where you lose nothing for dying mippo?

Lol get fucked newbie.

[Graym]

If Loot and Scoot is enacted, you lose the right to the zone which is a pretty big deal in Everquest. If you're experiencing somewhere or camping something and you die, having to leave the zone fucking sucks. For people at max level, having to give away a shot at a raid zone or raid target because you lost a guild battle sucks.

There is a penalty for losing, and it doesn't have to involve a griefing tactic of costing someone experience or item loss. People should PVP for the thrill of winning or losing, there doesn't have to be a harsher penalty associated then losing the rights to whatever area/mob you had claim to in the game world.

There still is a clear pecking order. The only thing xp loss does is benefit max level players who level faster then others and encourages people to AVOID pvp because they might lose experience. It's just like on Rallos Zek, implement item loss and suddenly 99% of the server is running around naked for fear of losing their items. It's a stupid system that caters to the people who enjoy griefing as opposed to a server that encourages good, quality PVP like what we enjoyed on these servers when they were live. You wouldn't know, because you probably never played on them.

[gloinz]

If Loot and Scoot is enacted, you lose the right to the zone which is a pretty big deal in Everquest. If you're experiencing somewhere or camping something and you die, having to leave the zone fucking sucks. For people at max level, having to give away a shot at a raid zone or raid target because you lost a guild battle sucks.

There is a penalty for losing, and it doesn't have to involve a griefing tactic of costing someone experience or item loss. People should PVP for the thrill of winning or losing, there doesn't have to be a harsher penalty associated then losing the rights to whatever area/mob you had claim to in the game world.

There still is a clear pecking order. The only thing xp loss does is benefit max level players who level faster then others and encourages people to AVOID pvp because they might lose experience. It's just like on Rallos Zek, implement item loss and suddenly 99% of the server is running around naked for fear of losing their items. It's a stupid system that caters to the people who enjoy griefing as opposed to a server that encourages good, quality PVP like what we enjoyed on these servers when they were live. You wouldn't know, because you probably never played on them.

back to wow with you. xp loss gives a reason not to be like lol whatever kill me ill b back in 8 minutes. u have a reason NOT to die

[Graym]

back to wow with you. xp loss gives a reason not to be like lol whatever kill me ill b back in 8 minutes. u have a reason NOT to die

With loot and scoot, there already is a reason not to die. There is no reason to add a griefing component to the equation.

[boss]

LnS is for pussies

[Graym]

LnS is for pussies

It's a harsher penalty then experience loss and it's how the team Zek servers were played. It was a system the vast majority of people on both servers enforced and enjoyed. Why change it? To appeal to the griefing Sullon Zek crowd?

[Dfn]

With loot and scoot, there already is a reason not to die. There is no reason to add a griefing component to the equation.

Your argument is flawed.

Loot N Scoot only applies to when you're actively camping a specific spawn - which of course is the only thing people do in Everquest. They don't seek out PvP, travel, trade, explore, quest, bank, or exp in an erratic manner.

And besides, it isn't a character specific punishment anyhow. You don't actively lose something as a penalty to dying. Losing access to a specific location is not a detriment to your character.

[Dfn]

It's a harsher penalty then experience loss and it's how the team Zek servers were played. It was a system the vast majority of people on both servers enforced and enjoyed. Why change it? To appeal to the griefing Sullon Zek crowd?

Loot and scoot isn't even a penalty in most cases. You lost your camp by force, not by rules. If you're claiming loot n scoot to get your shit and leave then you wouldn't be able to stay regardless - your stupid ass would just get killed again.

Stop pretending like quasi-blue team-based servers with no death penalty are what real PvP servers are. Your argument to pussify the server is a bad one. Like Gloinz said, go back to WoW.

[Graym]

Loot and scoot isn't even a penalty in most cases. You lost your camp by force, not by rules. If you're claiming loot n scoot to get your shit and leave then you wouldn't be able to stay regardless - your stupid ass would just get killed again.

Stop pretending like quasi-blue team-based servers with no death penalty are what real PvP servers are. Your argument to pussify the server is a bad one. Like Gloinz said, go back to WoW.

Not everyone's idea of PVP is griefing the fuck out of your opponent. The two servers this server is being modeled after had an extremely good system that everyone enjoyed and preferred. It promotes PVP without the griefing aspect of it. There is still a penalty for losing, a clear pecking order on the server. If you fight over Fear and your guild dies, losing the rights to Fear and the loot is a penalty. The rules still encouraged the two guilds to fight over the zone, just without the stupid training / bind rushing that occurred on the other pvp servers. It still provides the PURPOSE of why people play on PVP servers, the ability to take what you want through skill on the battlefield instead of having to wait in a line like on a PVE server. Just because it doesn't have the griefing aspect you seem to enjoy, does not make it any less of a PVP server.

If you want to model this server after Sullon Zek, then make those changes and watch the population plummet. If you want to make it Rallos Zek, fine, let everyone run around naked for the thrill of possibly ganking an item with their 4 Wizard group.

Why change a system that worked well on both of these servers? Why can't two guilds be polite about PVP? If you lose, get your corpses and leave the zone. There is no need to repeatedly kill people and waste their entire nights. They lost the right to the area for loot, it's a big enough penalty on a server where items grant an advantage in PVP. There will always be PVP because there are always going to be raid zones and raid mobs to fight over every week. You still can go around and randomly PVP if you want to, nothing is stopping that either. The only thing the penalty does is add a griefing component to PVP and screws people who aren't already max level making it harder for them to level and discourages people from joining the server which is the exact opposite of what you would want on a PVP server -> More people to kill.

[Galacticus]

back to wow with you. xp loss gives a reason not to be like lol whatever kill me ill b back in 8 minutes. u have a reason NOT to die

Oh you will be back in 8 min? Then I will wait for you and kill you before you can get your body. Its not hard to kill anyone without gear.

No one wants to die. Yellow text is a good reason not to die, corpse running is a good reason, not having your gear is a good reason and having the guy that just killed you sitting on your body is a good reason. Losing your camp is good reason, wasting time running is a good reason, wasting time medding because you got pvped is a good reason, that person sending you tells about how you just got fucking owned is a good reason.

List goes on.

[Crenshinabon]

No one wants to die. Yellow text is a good reason not to die, corpse running is a good reason, not having your gear is a good reason and having the guy that just killed you sitting on your body is a good reason. Losing your camp is good reason, wasting time running is a good reason, wasting time medding because you got pvped is a good reason, that person sending you tells about how you just got fucking owned is a good reason.


Lol, all these are true. But I still like the small xp loss mechanic. Its like 2-3% guys, you planin on dying that much? There is even a good anti grief mechanic in for loot and scoot. You sound like a bunch of scared rabbits.

[Galacticus]

Lol, all these are true. But I still like the small xp loss mechanic. Its like 2-3% guys, you planin on dying that much? There is even a good anti grief mechanic in for loot and scoot. You sound like a bunch of scared rabbits.

Fuck yea bro I want some xp loss on death because I like it to sting that much more when I pvp people.

It satisfys my urge to make other suffer :D

[Dfn]

Not everyone's idea of PVP is griefing the fuck out of your opponent. The two servers this server is being modeled after had an extremely good system that everyone enjoyed and preferred. It promotes PVP without the griefing aspect of it.

Extremely good is subjective. How was it any more or less good than other PvP servers? Besides, let me take a line of reasoning from you here. "Not everyone's idea of PVP is no death penalty and being nice to everyone."

I'm not sure you're familiar with the term "griefing" either. Should I define it for you? What you're arguing for is a system without a death penalty, period. You want a WoW battleground-arena type game where dying has no consequence.


There is still a penalty for losing, a clear pecking order on the server. If you fight over Fear and your guild dies, losing the rights to Fear and the loot is a penalty. The rules still encouraged the two guilds to fight over the zone, just without the stupid training / bind rushing that occurred on the other pvp servers. It still provides the PURPOSE of why people play on PVP servers, the ability to take what you want through skill on the battlefield instead of having to wait in a line like on a PVE server.

Again, the flaws in your argument come flooding out.

Simply put: Loot and Scoot does has no effect on the majority of the population. Furthermore, most of the people it does effect would likely leave the zone without the LnS rule. Why? Because they will get killed again.

Training and Bind Rushing? Really? Red herring? Training is illegal. Bind rushing is solved because there is exp loss on death. What happens in your fruity blue world of no death penalty? Oh yeah, people bind rush.

Bad argument still going... "It still provides the PURPOSE of why people play on PVP servers, the ability to take what you want through skill on the battlefield instead of having to wait in a line like on a PVE server."

EXP loss on death removes the ability of taking what you want through skill and forces PvE lines, right? No? Then stfu with this random ass shit.


Why change a system that worked well on both of these servers? Why can't two guilds be polite about PVP? If you lose, get your corpses and leave the zone. There is no need to repeatedly kill people and waste their entire nights. They lost the right to the area for loot, it's a big enough penalty on a server where items grant an advantage in PVP.

Again, subjective. Who's to say Rallos or Sullon weren't better? Is there a verifiable, measurable standard that we can use? No? Then stfu.

Guilds can behave how they want. Just because you want to be nice when getting drilled doesn't mean the rest of the population does. EXP/Item loot both provide a method of forcing people out of the zone without rules that require staff interpretation and enforcement.

You are dumb. You haven't listen one good reason yet.

[Crenshinabon]

It satisfys my urge to make other suffer :D

Gives the players a good reason to be pro and not a zergling shithead as well when defeated. All around good mechanic.

[Graym]

Again, subjective. Who's to say Rallos or Sullon weren't better? Is there a verifiable, measurable standard that we can use? No? Then stfu.

Yes, it was called SERVER POPULATION.

[Sorath]

My body is ready to decrease your xps.

[Dfn]

Yes, it was called SERVER POPULATION.

It's common knowledge that Sullon had a lower population than the other servers, but the same cannot be said of Rallos. Most people attribute it to the lack of rules and little to no GM involvement. Now, show me the data. Where does it say that EXP loss was the contributing factor that led to a lower population?

Try and come up with a few reasons to support your blue idea while you're at it. I'm anxious to hear a legitimate reason.

[Graym]

It's common knowledge that Sullon had a lower population than the other servers, but the same cannot be said of Rallos. Most people attribute it to the lack of rules and little to no GM involvement. Now, show me the data. Where does it say that EXP loss was the contributing factor that led to a lower population?

Try and come up with a few reasons to support your blue idea while you're at it. I'm anxious to hear a legitimate reason.

It's common knowledge that Sullon had a lower population than the other servers, but the same cannot be said of Rallos. Most people attribute it to the lack of rules and little to no GM involvement. Now, show me the data. Where does it say that EXP loss was the contributing factor that led to a lower population?

Try and come up with a few reasons to support your blue idea while you're at it. I'm anxious to hear a legitimate reason.

If you want to deny and ignore the supporting data, I don't know what to tell you. As well, I never played on Rallos but I'd assume a decent reason their population stayed was twofold:

1) They were the first, and at the time, only PVP server and by the time the other servers rolled around people had already invested tons of time on the server and didn't want to move. If all 4 servers had been released at the same time, I doubt that would've happened.

2) Much more importantly, I would assume the increase in No Drop items kind of took away a big portion of the item loot complaint. Even then, I'm sure there were plenty of gank groups to go around.

The question is which would you prefer, a server with a balanced distribution of classes fighting with their gear to the best of their ability for the biggest PVP challenge, or a server where people keep items in their bags and run around in ganking groups. Sullon Zek's ruleset drove the population into the ground so while I'm sure a lot of you like it, it isn't exactly a good ruleset to follow if the you're trying to keep a server populated.

For me, I'd rather dominate a server/game that appeals to the masses and promotes skill so that the best truly represent the best. A low population emulator server doesn't prove jack shit and never will because the best players stopped playing Everquest many years ago. Low population emulators with second rate players with vastly changed rulesets is not a "proving ground" and the fact that most of you think this server matters is just ridiculous. It's just a place for a few hundred people to have fun on a game that's a decade old. There is nothing to prove on this server and I guess the difference between you and me is that I realize that and you don't. You actually think that "winning" on an emulator means you are skilled or something and nullifies losing on the real versions of the game when they were popular.

So my legitimate reason? You sucked 10 years ago, you still suck today and changing the ruleset is not going to change that so keep the ruleset that provides the most *FUN* for players because that's what these servers are ultimately about. A way for people to relive the old days. Why completely change the original ruleset to add a griefing element onto a 10 year old emulator server?

[lethdar]

Yeah this server totally has sullon's ruleset, that's why theres no level range for pvp, training is legal, and diety based teams.

Moron, go back to world of warcraft so you can enjoy your meaningless deaths as you run back 100 times in a battleground.

[Dfn]

The question is which would you prefer, a server with a balanced distribution of classes fighting with their gear to the best of their ability for the biggest PVP challenge, or a server where people keep items in their bags and run around in ganking groups. Sullon Zek's ruleset drove the population into the ground so while I'm sure a lot of you like it, it isn't exactly a good ruleset to follow if the you're trying to keep a server populated.

The choice isn't Sullon ruleset or Tallon ruleset or Rallos ruleset. We have the opportunity to create our own unique ruleset that draws on the strengths of those servers and avoids the population-killers.

Sullon had population issues because of it being a no rules server. People simply didn't want to play somewhere where they could be trained and bind camped with unfair teams and an abundance of hackers - oh, and little to no GM support. Sullon's population was lower than the others for those reasons and because it started much later. EXP loss on death had little to do with it.



For me, I'd rather dominate a server/game that appeals to the masses and promotes skill so that the best truly represent the best. A low population emulator server doesn't prove jack shit and never will because the best players stopped playing Everquest many years ago. Low population emulators with second rate players with vastly changed rulesets is not a "proving ground" and the fact that most of you think this server matters is just ridiculous. It's just a place for a few hundred people to have fun on a game that's a decade old. There is nothing to prove on this server and I guess the difference between you and me is that I realize that and you don't. You actually think that "winning" on an emulator means you are skilled or something and nullifies losing on the real versions of the game when they were popular.

Sure, everyone wants a server with a high population. But there has to be compromise. A completely blue non-pvp server will have a higher population than any type of PvP server. Does that make it the best?

Will exp loss lower the server population? Probably, but only a little. Will item loot? Even more than exp loss. Will training? Yep, definitely more than exp loss. You obviously can't cater to everyone - what ruleset will claim the highest population while still remaining a competitive pvp server?

There is a higher percentage of better players here than on any of the live servers. The game has been out longer, people have gotten better, all the tricks are common knowledge, etc etc. But please, continue with the ad hominem. If it helps with your argument at all, I won the caster FFA on live as a wizard.


So my legitimate reason? You sucked 10 years ago, you still suck today and changing the ruleset is not going to change that so keep the ruleset that provides the most *FUN* for players because that's what these servers are ultimately about. A way for people to relive the old days. Why completely change the original ruleset to add a griefing element onto a 10 year old emulator server?

I'm not the one crying about dying in PvP. It sounds like it's something you're used to. Original ruleset is interesting though - did you know that was item loot?

You are right that this is something people will play to have fun - in the context of a competitive PvP server. The game becomes unfun when it's no longer challenging, there is no competition, you have no incentive to kill people, and you have no fear of dying because you don't lose anything.

[Graym]

Sullon had population issues because of it being a no rules server. People simply didn't want to play somewhere where they could be trained and bind camped with unfair teams and an abundance of hackers - oh, and little to no GM support. Sullon's population was lower than the others for those reasons and because it started much later. EXP loss on death had little to do with it.

Pretty misleading, considering the huge jump in population Sullon Zek had when the server first formed to how low it got quickly thereafter.

Sure, everyone wants a server with a high population. But there has to be compromise. A completely blue non-pvp server will have a higher population than any type of PvP server. Does that make it the best?

No, in general more people like blue servers. But not having experience upon death doesn't make it a blue server like you are insinuating. It's still a PVP server.

There is a higher percentage of better players here than on any of the live servers. The game has been out longer, people have gotten better, all the tricks are common knowledge, etc etc. But please, continue with the ad hominem. If it helps with your argument at all, I won the caster FFA on live as a wizard.

Wow, I'm going to laugh at that. If VZTZ was actually filled with skilled players, nobody would've been ok with the changes they made, many of which did remove a lot of skill from the equation. You're implying that because people are aware of things due to the longevity of Everquest, that it means these emulators are getting the highest percentage of better players? That's a joke. The best players flock to the games that produce the biggest audience for their victories. A small, low population emulator does not that fit that bill at all. I didn't stay on VZTZ long, but I saw Heresy fight in PVP and both of my guilds on live would've mopped the floor with them very, very easily. I guess that's why my guilds were in the Finals of all three gamewide Test of Tactics and won 5 of the gamewide PVP tournaments. However, I congratulate you on winning some small FFA tourney on your server.

I'm not the one crying about dying in PvP. It sounds like it's something you're used to. Original ruleset is interesting though - did you know that was item loot?

Yeah I'm aware, it was also almost immediately changed. What's the point of even bringing it up, it had nothing to do with the server.

[pasi]

I guess that's why my guilds were in the Finals of all three gamewide Test of Tactics and won 5 of the gamewide PVP tournaments. However, I congratulate you on winning some small FFA tourney on your server.

What 5?

Nanak won the BotB.
Drizzlin, Darien, Nanak, and co lost to RZ.

I mean are you really counting Thott and Wendolyn wins as yours?

I'm aware of how shady RZ's win was with skeletons and bladestoppers, but it's not like they didn't still win.

[Sorath]

Real pvper's enjoy and like:

Griefing,Owning retards,Training and owning mass numbers of retards,Trolling,Pwning then Trolling ooc,Solo pvp,group pvp. Hate pug groups,hate bluebies but love them to populate the server so they can devour them like little gazzelles graizing on the meadow. Love crafters becuase i mean shit im not crafting? Eta and dont burn my raws noobz.
Bind camping is also fun, If somone bind camps me i dont cry i just get really sinister and go do it to some other poor noob, its a vicious cycle, not saying ive ever been bind camped because i havn't im too smart for that type of blueness.

[mostbitter]

I was personally excited about the pvp server opening up. However as someone who has played eq on and off for 11 years starting on Tallon Zek, I know that the exp loss is going to make the server less enjoyable for the majority of players.

I as a solo player however will not even consider playing on this server when other players have the ability to make the gruesome task of leveling in everquest even harder. To say that there is no penalty for death in this game without experience loss is just ludicrous.

I see the people making this arguement and recognize that none of them are going to be starting on the server by themselves. None of them will be in the position of being in a dungeon with the couple of friends they have managed to make on this server only to get steamrolled by an angry group of top tier players. None of them will then be forced to wait until that group is tired of harassing them so they can resume playing the game.

Everquest is already the most hardcore unforgiving mmo to have ever existed. Pretending that there needs to be further penalties to the exp bar is bonkers. I'd be very surprised if this server doesn't experience a fair amount of griefing aside from the experience loss on pvp death.

I see plenty of the players from VZ/TZ playing here and I know from experience that those people have no problem sitting on zonelines raining people who try to enter so that they can't even zone in without immediately dying, pulling trains, hacking, and any form of grief they can think of sending your way. That only led to more of the same on that server and eventually it ruined it. Adding more grief to a game already filled with ample opportunity to grief is in my opinion self destructive.

[Softcore PK]

The exp loss is supposed to be very minimal.

[mostbitter]

if it is that minimal then why bother to implement it at all?

[Softcore PK]

For a lot of reasons, I imagine. It deters people from bind rushing, adds a slight sting to dying (between coin only loot and item + coin in terms of penalty) and makes forcing lns when SZ fefs don't want to that much easier.

[mostbitter]

i'm not sure how much you played on a pvp server but the only class that can effectively bind rush is a monk so thats a non factor. The other reasons you list are honestly just as silly to me but it's ok because i won't be playing there as long as the exp loss on pvp death is in place.

[Softcore PK]

It's a shame we won't get to have you :(

[mostbitter]

That sort of message just further proves the point that people arguing in favor of the experience penalty are not interested in promoting a server which can grow in population.

[Softcore PK]

Penalties encourage meaningful pvp, imo. Emphasis on the meaningful. When you pk someone with these penalties, you know what you are doing. It is mean to pk someone else because it causes them exp and coin loss. And it will hopefully make people a little bit angry about it. When people become angry at one another, it makes the enemies more enemy-like. People will remember the pks that really piss them off. Things become more real.

it's good for the community! :D

[Crenshinabon]

Honestly you complain about not having one small thing the way you want it and you threaten not to play. Sad. You will still play.

[Sprinkle]

the xp loss is nominal deal with it