wonders...

[gprater]

...how many of the folks that post their bravado here actually think that the word "skill" ,so often thrown around on this forum, applies?

Hi I am a highly skilled pvp'ing blah blah....translated: I push buttons good and pretend its real people.


Having said that: i am looking forward to this server opening and obviously getting rolled by most of you :)


flame on

[NenshouStar]

I also look forward to Red99, thought this was still a myth until only recently.
never played pvp back on live. gonna be good to get in on the ground floor here.
once things get too hectic it may be back to blue. haha, who knows..
frankly dislike the population being split in half, but also happy to see alot of new/retired faces come back out for the games.
good luck to all.

[Nirgon]

Skill aka having a clue how to play. Which most people rolling on this server will not.

[Galacticus]

Skill is more about understanding how things work and using those things to your advantage strategically then anything. Pvp is much different then pve, and u can't learn it easily.

[Gnar]

I also look forward to Red99, thought this was still a myth until only recently.
never played pvp back on live. gonna be good to get in on the ground floor here.
once things get too hectic it may be back to blue. haha, who knows..
frankly dislike the population being split in half, but also happy to see alot of new/retired faces come back out for the games.
good luck to all.

Population wont be split in half, there are several factions of us from VZTZ. There will probably be 3-4 guilds that hate each other from vztz alone.

[Doors]

Population wont be split in half, there are several factions of us from VZTZ. There will probably be 3-4 guilds that hate each other from vztz alone.

Dog does that mean the same pieces of human garbage are gonna be ackin? Confirm / deny?

[fiegi]

Population wont be split in half, there are several factions of us from VZTZ. There will probably be 3-4 guilds that hate each other from vztz alone.

[dusk883]

There has to be some sort of skill involved although I have none. Never did in 99-03 either, I just ran around with my necro dot'ing the shit out of everything anytime I had a blue bar.

So is it "SKILL" or is it "game mechanics knowledge for PVP"?

I'm going to guess and say it's game mechanics during pvp... as I don't think finesse had anything to do with the game although Jousting did have timing issues. I think the biggest "skill" in EQ pvp is whether or not you have the ability to run around with competent friends - more so than those you pvp against anyway. One of many examples,
1 group armed with a big daddy enchanter with area mez can wreak havoc on 2 groups and will appear to be "super skilled" as a result (Hello Knights of the White Rose). Fact is, the enchanter just pushed a damn button every 30 seconds.

It's a game of shiit talking and "who you know" IMO. From low level to high level... and I'm fucked when we start playing now that I think about it with the limited time

[Crenshinabon]

... and I'm fucked when we start playing now that I think about it with the limited time

Yea maybe, but the difference now is that a lot of us I think are going to be more "limited" in time that want to play this server. More people means less chance of you getting zeroed out.

[Galacticus]

Its a philosophical debate between what makes someone skilled, how much of it is ability or intellegence, natural or learned.

If you look at professional athlete, they usually practice over and over to be considered skilled. Is it their muscle memory or repetition or is it what they learned and how they apply it? Was Michael Jordan good because he was naturally talented or because he practiced his ass off? How much was experience, how much was repetition, how much was natural talent that played into his skill.

I like eq because there is alot of game knowlege to know and master, and even though you may know everything there is to know about the game and its mechanics, it doesnt mean you will take that knowlege and apply it correctly.

The reason eq pvp is so good vs other games is that there is this level of complexity that overwhelms people. Its like starcraft 1 or 2, easy to learn and difficult to master. The difference between world class players is not that the champs know more about the game, everything they know is availible to others. What they have mastered is timing and applying that knowlege to get them to win either by comming up with great strategies or just outright making quick decisions on the fly that are informed and correct, and there is always a little bit of luck involved.

Things in eq that take skill that other mmos generally dont have:

Jousting - Your characters positioning in reference to your target is important and ever changing.

Huge List of unique spells and abilities - The spell system is full of counters, you tash me, I cure poision, you cast a 4 second nuke, I cast my 3 second stun and interupt you. The fact that there are so many spells that do so many different things increases the difficulty. In wow for example you would have multipul classes using the same spells, like fear or stun or interupts.

Terrain - The world is a filled with enviroments that are dynamic and varried. There is always a place to run behind a wall or a tree or a hill that you can line of sight people and use that to your advantage.

Class synergy - Understanding how classes work together and play off of eachother is also skill based, the difference between a bad enchanter and a good one is knowing when to mez, when to tash, when to debuff, when to run and that all changes depending on if you are rolling with a wizard or a monk or a druid or whatever other class.

Dont be fooled by illusions of skill such as zergs, "tricks aka exploits (looking at you hillbug)", and gear.

[dusk883]

Must take skill to cast the 3 second spell when someone casts the 4 second spell. As a Wizard back in the day, I would throw the 2 second Shock of Lightning every other cast just because I had no idea what the other player would cast, I just needed that interupt. Was too simpleton to "react"

Melee? Shadow Step whenever it was ready was my answer, and hope I was still in range for the next nuke.

Will hillbugging be a factor on the server? I hope not..

[Galacticus]

Must take skill to cast the 3 second spell when someone casts the 4 second spell. As a Wizard back in the day, I would throw the 2 second Shock of Lightning every other cast just because I had no idea what the other player would cast, I just needed that interupt. Was too simpleton to "react"

Melee? Shadow Step whenever it was ready was my answer, and hope I was still in range for the next nuke.

Will hillbugging be a factor on the server? I hope not..

you have less then 1 second to cast that 3 second spell to interupt the 4, its all about timing.

You could play the game how you did, but I wouldnt expect you to be categorized as a skilled player.

Lots of people play like this, most of them cry about how the game is unbalanced because they just dont understand how it works.

[gloinz]

who says hillbugging is an exploit its just another factor to consider if u choose to fight near hills imo

[dusk883]

Well yeah, I'd say you have the "skills" factor then... as that's how I play/played. Running around with a 300-400 ping back in the day didn't help me either, I wasn't smart enough to react to what is, in the end, a half second reaction. I did playing Quake Team Fortress back in the day but certainly not in EQ.

Never qq'ed about balance however, the game wasn't engineered to be "balanced" in any shape or form, the game changed over time to satisfy the qq'ers instead.

[Greenkrak]

Have any of you people ever tried Shadowstep/ Yonder on p99???

80% of the time you end up fading 2ft from your original spot and goin nowhere.

GOOD LUCK

[valithteezee]

Have any of you people ever tried Shadowstep/ Yonder on p99???

80% of the time you end up fading 2ft from your original spot and goin nowhere.

GOOD LUCK

Lol how true..

[Graym]

Yes, there is skill and what is needed to be skilled changes from game to game and even class to class. It's basically a combination of analytical ability and reaction time.

The faster the combat is in the game, the more important reaction time becomes. The slower the combat in the game, the more important analytical ability becomes.

For example, a first person shooter will require faster reaction time because if you properly analyze a situation and know exactly what to do, someone will still kill you if they react faster then you do. In a game like Everquest, what's usually more important is analytical ability. Knowing where to move, who to attack, what action to take and reaction time is not nearly as important because the combat is slower. The reaction time required to play a melee would be higher then a caster, who can anticipate their next move while waiting on the current cast to perform. Any game that uses a global cooldown, the longer the cooldown between abilities, the less important reaction time becomes. If there is no global cooldown and abilities can be used instantly, reaction time becomes more important.

A perfect example is the guy I gave my Ranger to on Vallon Zek. He made a living playing Street Fighter, and was one of the top ranked players in the world. In Street Fighter he had every move memorized, and the distances between the players in relation to the moves memorized so there was very little analytical ability involved. His skill, and why he was so good, was his reaction time and how quickly he could respond to whatever his opponent was doing. He knew the correct response through memorization, it was simply how long for it to register, and how quickly he reacted to it that him so good.

In Everquest, he took over my Ranger when I joined Afterlife and he routinely died in PVP, even though the Ranger he took over was the best equipped Ranger on the server by far. Everquest simply requires more analytical ability instead of reaction time which Street Fighter required. He constantly made very bad decisions which led to his deaths, even with a big gear advantage.

"Skill" is essentially the tools required to excel at whatever particular game, simply a combination of analytical ability and reaction time. Everquest places a much greater emphasis on your analytical ability because of the relatively slower nature of combat compared to other games. At the end, no matter how good your analytical ability was, things still came down to class balance and a random factor on occasion though but a "skilled" player would typically beat an "unskilled" player the majority of the time, even with a weaker class. The only time the class balance really played a factor was at the top, when two players making very little to no mistakes were playing each other in which case class balance plays a factor. The same is true in games like Street Fighter. Your average players won't see any difference if one character is slightly overpowered, however with the best players in the world, a small advantage like that completely ruins the game and they'll ban that particular character from being used in tournaments. It's also why the vast majority of comments about the pecking order of the classes is stupid and off-base, because the majority of comments are coming from players who never played the classes to their potential or fought players playing the class to their potential. The top players on the server, playing other top players on the server produced far different results then what the masses were seeing based on the difficulty level (how hard it is to make the right decisions) of the classes.

[gloinz]

Have any of you people ever tried Shadowstep/ Yonder on p99???

80% of the time you end up fading 2ft from your original spot and goin nowhere.

GOOD LUCK

is that even when u shadowstep on top of a hill?

[Graym]

^did not read.

seriously what the fuck mippo, FUCK OFF YOU PIECE OF SHIT. No one wants your faggotry on these forums. Go piss on the FOH forums

I've always wondered, are you the Cast from Vallon Zek that I used to kill all of the time?

[Cast]

http://i52.tinypic.com/415bs.png

[Graym]

http://i52.tinypic.com/415bs.png

Roofles, that means yes.