Viability of Non Oger Troll SK discussion and how to equip them

[godbox]

I love my troll sk's I always played troll Sk's but the grind is getting too much for me as an adult and Im only mid 20's. I remember back on EQ live that DE SKs were super popular as well as erudites I THINK for soloing since obviously troll oger win at late game tanking when there massive sta is the winning.

Anyway I am thinking of rerolling my troll into a DE or eru for purposes of keeping up with the group I play with.
I dont ever expect I will play end game raid type stuff I expect more to play as small groups and solo farm mostly.
Lookin for thoughts or opinions on viability / benefits of small race SK's as soloers/group tanks. Also thought since we have this forum now would be a good place to start keeping some brand newbian info such as this.

p.s. and most importantly has anyone played both big and small Sk's that can comment on noticability of the 40 vs 68% exp penalty (seems noticable to me).

[Knuckle]

jesus christ quit being retarded. it's literally the same exact way, 1handers are always shit unless you absolutely have to bash for a fight or pvp. if thats the case use the shitty bloodmoon off innoruuk untill you can get a ebon mace in kunark. even then you're going to be a sub par piece of shit untill epic.

[godbox]

jesus christ quit being retarded. it's literally the same exact way, 1handers are always shit unless you absolutely have to bash for a fight or pvp. if thats the case use the shitty bloodmoon off innoruuk untill you can get a ebon mace in kunark. even then you're going to be a sub par piece of shit untill epic.

lol

[Grozmok]

Races in this game don't really mean a whole lot after a certain point.

There are only a few perks that are good levels 1-60.

Infravision
Ultravision
Stun resist (Ogre)

Just to name a few.

[Nirgon]

jesus christ quit being retarded. it's literally the same exact way, 1handers are always shit unless you absolutely have to bash for a fight or pvp. if thats the case use the shitty bloodmoon off innoruuk untill you can get a ebon mace in kunark. even then you're going to be a sub par piece of shit untill epic.

The guy making a human warrior?

[Szeth]

Races in this game don't really mean a whole lot after a certain point.

There are only a few perks that are good levels 1-60.

Infravision
Ultravision
Stun resist (Ogre)

Just to name a few.

In Kunark it still matters end game. Also matters where you allocate starting points. The fact that you can max most stats is obvious... It's a matter of getting JUST the minimum of each stat from items so that you can equip hp/mana/resist gear and not lose anything.

[Lazortag]

People really overanalyze the impact of class/race on tanking ability. A gnome ranger (if such an abomination existed) could tank effectively in most non-raid situations because the thing that matters most is aggro-holding ability and having decent ac/hp.

[Lishrac]

People really overanalyze the impact of class/race on tanking ability. A gnome ranger (if such an abomination existed) could tank effectively in most non-raid situations because the thing that matters most is aggro-holding ability and having decent ac/hp.

It's just people trying to "win" the game. Play what you like how you like to. If people don't like it get ready to solo a lot or find a group of like minded people.

[fischsemmel]

It's just people trying to "win" the game. Play what you like how you like to. If people don't like it get ready to solo a lot or find a group of like minded people.

Analogy time!

"Waiter, I'm torn between the cheese n' mushroom sirloin and the steak and seafood meals. What do you recommend?"

"Well sir, I really think you're just trying to decide what is best. You should eat what you want. And if your friends here don't approve of your choice in food, you should eat here alone or you should find new friends."


It's a good thing you don't work for tips, Lishrac.



Note the use of the English language employed by the OP:

Lookin for thoughts or opinions on viability / benefits of small race SK's as soloers/group tanks. Also thought since we have this forum now would be a good place to start keeping some brand newbian info such as this.

p.s. and most importantly has anyone played both big and small Sk's that can comment on noticability of the 40 vs 68% exp penalty (seems noticable to me).

He wants advice on something very specific, and he even calls attention to a piece of advice that he would MOST appreciate getting. Nowhere did he ask for anyone to tell him to do what he wants to or whether he should find new friends who approve of his choice of entree. In fact, it would be a pretty safe assumption that what he wants is advice on the underlined things above! Whoa buddy!!




OP: your dark elf SK will be able to solo or tank in groups with your friends. Not surprisingly, it will not be AS effective at squeezing the most out of a complete heal or hitting as hard solo, that is unless you have a hell of a lot of PP. However, the difference, while noticable, will not be game-breaking.

Regarding the xp penalty difference? I felt my ogre SK was pretty painful to level by the time he hit 20, even though he had it a bit easier on the xp than your troll. I was mostly solo or duoing with an ogre shaman, and I had spent probably 20k twinking my SK. My bard's xp bar feels to move quite a bit quicker when I kill individual mobs.

I would expect that the extra 28% on that penalty would really, really be painful at 50+, even for someone who makes it to 50 without noticing it.

Since you say that you want to reroll so that you can keep around the same level as your friends with the limited playtime you have, however, I think I would advise AGAINST starting over. Go look at your /played, man. How many hours have you put into your SK already? Think about how long it would take you starting from scratch on a dark elf SK in order to make up for losing that time spent on your troll. How are you going to catch up to your friends with the dark elf AND then keep up with them if you are already having trouble keeping up with them?

[Grozmok]

I'm playing a Troll SK, it's painful but I like the way Trolls are presented in EQ and I happen to enjoy playing villains, so I'm going to stick it out.

I'm sure that once Velious is out and the exp tables are adjusted, there will be a bunch of fair weather Johnson SKs out there, but such is life.

[Lishrac]

Analogy time!

"Waiter, I'm torn between the cheese n' mushroom sirloin and the steak and seafood meals. What do you recommend?"

"Well sir, I really think you're just trying to decide what is best. You should eat what you want. And if your friends here don't approve of your choice in food, you should eat here alone or you should find new friends."


It's a good thing you don't work for tips, Lishrac.



Note the use of the English language employed by the OP:



He wants advice on something very specific, and he even calls attention to a piece of advice that he would MOST appreciate getting. Nowhere did he ask for anyone to tell him to do what he wants to or whether he should find new friends who approve of his choice of entree. In fact, it would be a pretty safe assumption that what he wants is advice on the underlined things above! Whoa buddy!!




OP: your dark elf SK will be able to solo or tank in groups with your friends. Not surprisingly, it will not be AS effective at squeezing the most out of a complete heal or hitting as hard solo, that is unless you have a hell of a lot of PP. However, the difference, while noticable, will not be game-breaking.

Regarding the xp penalty difference? I felt my ogre SK was pretty painful to level by the time he hit 20, even though he had it a bit easier on the xp than your troll. I was mostly solo or duoing with an ogre shaman, and I had spent probably 20k twinking my SK. My bard's xp bar feels to move quite a bit quicker when I kill individual mobs.

I would expect that the extra 28% on that penalty would really, really be painful at 50+, even for someone who makes it to 50 without noticing it.

Since you say that you want to reroll so that you can keep around the same level as your friends with the limited playtime you have, however, I think I would advise AGAINST starting over. Go look at your /played, man. How many hours have you put into your SK already? Think about how long it would take you starting from scratch on a dark elf SK in order to make up for losing that time spent on your troll. How are you going to catch up to your friends with the dark elf AND then keep up with them if you are already having trouble keeping up with them?

To your giant wall of text that you felt the need to leave me to read I ask but one question. Who did I quote? And assuming I quoted somebody could you not also assume that I am talking to them and not the OP?

Somebody find me a screeny of the jump to conclusions mat! I'm feeling lazy.

To OP: Since I don't want to derail your thread I would say keep your current SK and give a smaller SK a try and see how you like it. If you end up not liking it very much you always have your current character to fall back on. The only thing you lose is a little leveling time. Btw, I have a guildy that is an iksar SK which I believe without looking at the Wiki has the same xp penalty as your troll SK and he just reached level 48 recently. He's one level away from some very useful spells. He says yes that the xp does get painful later on especially during hell levels but he can do so much with that character. Regen goes a long way.

[Gamkek]

Analogy time!

"Waiter, I'm torn between the cheese n' mushroom sirloin and the steak and seafood meals. What do you recommend?"

"Well sir, I really think you're just trying to decide what is best. You should eat what you want. And if your friends here don't approve of your choice in food, you should eat here alone or you should find new friends."

It's a good thing you don't work for tips, Lishrac

This is a pretty awful analogy. It's a good thing you're not a professional analogy-maker, or else you'd probably have a tough time finding work.

It's a waiters job to pander to customers, kiss ass and take orders. They're paid specifically for this reason.

Whereas Lishrac is not on anyone's payroll here and is just presenting his opinion on the topic, probably not giving two shits whether OP appreciates it or not.

These two things are not analogous!

Anyway, as for OP's question, I agree that race doesn't play a whole lot into the viability of any class. As an SK, Low STR/STA races are going to have a bit of a hard time at low levels because their stat difference will be more pronounced. But by the time you get to level 30 it will hardly make a difference. Honestly, your biggest problem early on is going to be carrying capacity - you won't have all the STR Ogres and Trolls have, so you won't be able to loot up as much before having to hit the vendor/bank.

[Filthed]

noone mentioned slam? isnt that the obv advantage?

[Grozmok]

^

Good point, slam is a nice bonus for the large races.

[Eldaran]

I don't always play an SK, but when I do... it's a fuggin Troll with green eyes. Troll hp regen, Slam, Big starting Sta and Str in the beginning all make your life that much easier.

[Broot]

Honestly, play whatever race sounds coolest in your head. ANY race of SK will be fantastic in groups because they have snap agro, good armor and good hit points. I felt like Troll was the coolest SK ever so I rolled it and love it. The 28% more exp required is definitely noticeable...but remember, the level cap will NEVER increase, and you should just have fun as you go along without trying to rush (especially if you don't plan on raiding).

If you want to solo, Troll and Iksar are by and far superior because of the health regen. It will decrease your downtime massively in combination with lifetap spamming. It can save you in a pinch while FD'ed, since you get regen while faking it.

Just make sure you have enough STR to carry your gear, and put the rest in STA. INT is completely unnecessary for anything non-ogre non-troll (arguably any SK at all)

[Kevlar]

I had a human SK on live and never had a problem. Was welcome in a lot of lighty towns as well as some evil ones. Granted things got a little better with the slam AA, but it wasn't THAT bad switching weapons with hot keys to bash every now and again.

[Noselacri]

Non-fatty SKs are fine, they just have a slight stat disadvantage. You'll be able to max your stamina in the end, which is all that truly matters for tanking, but ogre stun immunity is pretty sweet for a casting tank. Not critical, though.

1h weapons are alright. They have ratios that are almost comparable to 2h weapons and you can use a shield. If I'm tanking something, I'd appreciate 30AC 100HP quite a bit more than some extra DPS, especially on a class that could hold aggro without attacking at all if you wanted (I did that back in the day when tanking Vindi and such).

[runlvlzero]

I love my troll sk's I always played troll Sk's but the grind is getting too much for me as an adult and Im only mid 20's. I remember back on EQ live that DE SKs were super popular as well as erudites I THINK for soloing since obviously troll oger win at late game tanking when there massive sta is the winning.

Anyway I am thinking of rerolling my troll into a DE or eru for purposes of keeping up with the group I play with.
I dont ever expect I will play end game raid type stuff I expect more to play as small groups and solo farm mostly.
Lookin for thoughts or opinions on viability / benefits of small race SK's as soloers/group tanks. Also thought since we have this forum now would be a good place to start keeping some brand newbian info such as this.

p.s. and most importantly has anyone played both big and small Sk's that can comment on noticability of the 40 vs 68% exp penalty (seems noticable to me).

Make two inventory slots, one empty, one weapon/sheild bag, position the window for that nexto two more slots one for your primary and one for your offhand, put bash right next that, when you feel the need to bash, put 2h in empty slot, open bag, break out 1hs and sheild, if already using 1hs dualwield, swaping just the sheild is even easier. If your too lazy to do this - reroll a rogue, ranger, or some other moderately usefull dps class that doesnt need to do anything but stand nexto the appropriate mob with autoattack on.

[theaetatus]

Or just stay Troll and slam.

Plus you get to assboard (aka buttsurf) as a Troll. You only need 20% more to level than a gimped SK and you'll be laughing all the way to Grobb when you hit 60.

[Grahm]

Make two inventory slots, one empty, one weapon/sheild bag, position the window for that nexto two more slots one for your primary and one for your offhand, put bash right next that, when you feel the need to bash, put 2h in empty slot, open bag, break out 1hs and sheild, if already using 1hs dualwield, swaping just the sheild is even easier. If your too lazy to do this - reroll a rogue, ranger, or some other moderately usefull dps class that doesnt need to do anything but stand nexto the appropriate mob with autoattack on.

ITT shadowknights can duel wield.

[Kevynne]

Or just stay Troll and slam.

Plus you get to assboard (aka buttsurf) as a Troll. You only need 20% more to level than a gimped SK and you'll be laughing all the way to Grobb when you hit 60.

what does assboard mean exactly?

[tops419]

Ogre/Troll are the only viable SK/WAR. anyone who says "play what you want" is right if you were playing wow/eq2 or any other game. This is EQ and it's brutal. If you play another race for a tank, you're going to suck until you come into some significant gear. EVERY other class/race combination can be pretty good and forgiving of start point allocation. No other class subgroup relies as heavily on stats as tanks.

If you're a roleplayer, sure, play what you want. But, f you want to be a functional tank play a big race.

When i play my cleric, I avoid small tanks like the plague. It's just too much work healing them and I hate watching the dps get aggro because the tank is spinning.

Again, small races suck at tanking, big races own.
If you question this, you're dumb.

[Halfling]

Ogre/Troll are the only viable SK/WAR. anyone who says "play what you want" is right if you were playing wow/eq2 or any other game. This is EQ and it's brutal. If you play another race for a tank, you're going to suck until you come into some significant gear. EVERY other class/race combination can be pretty good and forgiving of start point allocation. No other class subgroup relies as heavily on stats as tanks.

If you're a roleplayer, sure, play what you want. But, f you want to be a functional tank play a big race.

When i play my cleric, I avoid small tanks like the plague. It's just too much work healing them and I hate watching the dps get aggro because the tank is spinning.

Again, small races suck at tanking, big races own.
If you question this, you're dumb.

When do gnome shd come out?

[kaev]

Ogre/Troll are the only viable SK/WAR. anyone who says "play what you want" is right if you were playing wow/eq2 or any other game. This is EQ and it's brutal. If you play another race for a tank, you're going to suck until you come into some significant gear. EVERY other class/race combination can be pretty good and forgiving of start point allocation. No other class subgroup relies as heavily on stats as tanks.

If you're a roleplayer, sure, play what you want. But, f you want to be a functional tank play a big race.

When i play my cleric, I avoid small tanks like the plague. It's just too much work healing them and I hate watching the dps get aggro because the tank is spinning.

Again, small races suck at tanking, big races own.
If you question this, you're dumb.

"Special" clerics need "special" tanks. Good players don't need to be "special" to keep up.

The key to tanking is agro, and SKs are great agro generators regardless of race. If you question this, ...

[Slave]

The key to tanking is agro, and SKs are great agro generators regardless of race. If you question this, ...

It's a lot easier to keep aggro with spells when you cannot be interrupted.

[kaev]

It's a lot easier to keep aggro with spells when you cannot be interrupted.

There is no such thing as a player spell-caster that cannot be interrupted. The Ogre's frontal stun immunity is a very limited advantage that is routinely played up to be worth far more than its real value. To a good player the advantage is small. Real, but small. A bad will definitely feel the lack, but then he's not going to be a very good tank regardless.

[Reptak]

There is no such thing as a player spell-caster that cannot be interrupted. The Ogre's frontal stun immunity is a very limited advantage that is routinely played up to be worth far more than its real value.

This is true. I hear a lot of people assume the frontal stun immunity makes it so you can't be interrupted. This is just not the case. You just aren't stunned for the 1-2 seconds. However, this should not be down played, especially for a pulling SK. Mobs try to bash you immediately and then have a cool down, which is when you turn around and run. Additionally, that time you are not being stunned for 1-2 secs helps you time and get off spells better.

[greatdane]

Well, if you can figure out how to position mobs so you aren't being hit in the ass, an ogre will get interrupted only a fraction of the time any other race would. Every single bash is a guaranteed interrupt (if you were casting at the time, obviously) for other races. An ogre just has to pass the channeling check which, at 50+, is pretty easy.

[Xaeophi]

Ogre/Troll are the only viable SK/WAR. anyone who says "play what you want" is right if you were playing wow/eq2 or any other game. This is EQ and it's brutal. If you play another race for a tank, you're going to suck until you come into some significant gear. EVERY other class/race combination can be pretty good and forgiving of start point allocation. No other class subgroup relies as heavily on stats as tanks.

If you're a roleplayer, sure, play what you want. But, f you want to be a functional tank play a big race.

When i play my cleric, I avoid small tanks like the plague. It's just too much work healing them and I hate watching the dps get aggro because the tank is spinning.

Again, small races suck at tanking, big races own.
If you question this, you're dumb.

Lol <3. No question that ogre/trolls have the most str/sta.
Doesnt stop me from tanking everything though. 8)
Str is useless Sta is cool. Dump points into Sta if you pick any other then ogre/troll/barb.
Sta pretty much gets capped out if your the big races after raid buffs. (as a dark elf im only like 20 sta from cap). While ogres are trying to find dex pieces ( Ragefire ) with lower ac while im sporting cobalt with more ac.. it all balances out... like it really does... take it or leave it 8)
Also.. Ask any non ogre warrior that tanks.. we dont really get stunned either when tanking a mob lol.
Imo race is a crutch.. Pick whatever race you want just be very selective in your gear. Know what pieces you're going to obtain. Ive seen ogres die due to missed CHs... and ive died like once or twice tanking something because of that too..Tanks are all dead if a CH isnt landed and that 200 hp more that ogres have doesnt make THAT big of a difference.. just saying. every tank will die if u dont have a good CH chain going 8)