Shadowknight, what race is best?

[bartillo]

So Iksar, ogre, or troll? Which is the best for SK?

Ive heard you want to go ogre /troll because they get a 2h bash (slam) and can wear plate.
is this true?
Also would the regen of the iskar / troll put it above the ogre even though ogre cant be stunned from the front?

I like all three races so I want to play whichever is the best for a sk.

Iksar, ogre, or troll?

[Brut]

Ogre of course!

- massive size to irritate inferior species who cant see the ghouls from behind you
- highest base str/sta
- stun immunity ultimate racial trait in game
- bigger sized weapons than troll/ikky
- doesnt swing said weapons like a ridiculous goof holding a sword the first time in his life (ikkys!)
- doesn't squat when you oughta be sitting down (ikkys!!)
- best face ever (see avatar)

Lifetap compensates regen imo. Stun immunity best racial trait ever.

[SirAlvarex]

The best race is the one you think looks the coolest in armor. Don't be an ugly if you don't like the way an ugly looks.

[theaetatus]

Ogre if you're min/maxing, no question.

Troll if you want to look good. The regen is nice but minimal.

No other choices really.

[Raavak]

They are somewhat different play styles. DE's have a larger manapool, which is good especially if you are going to fearkite. Ogres and trolls are going to be more pure tanks.

[theaetatus]

Mana pool means nothing when you're fear kiting, unless you're using an entire mana bar each kite, which is unlikely.

[Splorf22]

Ogre is the best by far simply due to stun immunity.

[ArumTP]

If something can be an ogre, the answer is always ogre. Then troll cause their stats are almost as good as ogre and they got regen. Then its human, not so KOS and meh combat stats. Then eruidite as they are slightly worse than human for combat stats. Then iksar cause they cant wear plate, they move above human in velious. Then dark elf, cause they are slightly worse combat stats than erudite and are KOS everywhere.

[quido]

Iksar all the way sluts.

[Fazlazen]

Iksar all the way sluts.

[Heavydrop]

Nobody mentioned exp penalties.... guess thats not a factor to some.
Whats the penalty for Ogre? Troll? Iksar?
All that alone would make me not want to play a fatty or ikky for SK

[Graahle]

Troll/Ogre or get the nuts out.

[fishingme]

Troll or gtfo

That's what your mom says occasionally

[filthyphil]

I started about 2 weeks ago, I am now level 35. And I shit you not, I haven't seen a single troll ingame yet.

EDIT: A /w all troll revealed 2 players

[Raavak]

They are all anon because they get pestered for ports.

[wasp23]

Iksar all the way sluts.

[Knightt]

Iksar all the way sluts.

all day everyday ,,,,,,,,,,,,.............. oh yea btw GREENMIST FTW

[Xaeophi]

Just here to say.. dark elf best race. NO CONTEST!

[EchoedTruth]

Dark Elf. 1 int = 10+ mana, 1 sta equates to far less. The extra mana = more taps, more FDs, more survivability. And you're not ugly.

[Brut]

Here's the reason you wanna pick ogre on any class that can pick ogre:

http://i45.tinypic.com/2gvsqq1.png

[dredge]

.

[Nirgon]

Do you know how much gear you have to put on to reach an ogre's str as one of the smaller races? Go ogre/troll. Iksar for Velious.

Iksar with revamped Chardok Shard of Night makes maybe the best twink. Full suit of Greenmist from aoe fear clears np.

[kaev]

Do you know how much gear you have to put on to reach an ogre's str as one of the smaller races?

Do you know how boring it is to read the constant minmaxmunchkin chorus on these boards?

Play the class/race combo that makes the game fun for you, just make a point of learning to play it well, and to hell with all the munchkintards.

[Nirgon]

So Iksar, ogre, or troll? Which is the best for SK?

Ive heard you want to go ogre /troll because they get a 2h bash (slam) and can wear plate.
is this true?
Also would the regen of the iskar / troll put it above the ogre even though ogre cant be stunned from the front?

I like all three races so I want to play whichever is the best for a sk.

Iksar, ogre, or troll?

Ok so he's asking ogre, iksar or troll and he wants the best race (which is obviously why he's narrowed it down to these 3).

Looks like he is looking for some min max and why.

Ogre, case closed.

Oh and take it from me? The people who fail at reading comprehension get really old too.

[Wolfgang]

human sk, feels more like a fallen paladin

[1203jjt]

I made a dark elf last night, just for the cool factor...plus, hide is a semi-useful skill if you expect to need to go afk unexpectedly at times (children, pets, etc.)

[Brut]

Except you gonna get Hide at lvl35 regardless of race.

[Kender]

hide for sk? that's what FD is for

[Heavydrop]

hide for sk? that's what FD is for

Can't med in FD state. Also hp might regen faster for those non
troll or iksar SKs out there by sitting instead... Not sure about that though

[Motec]

The best sk to have ever played on p99 was a dark elf with hardly any spells.

Hth

[Vadd]

Ok so he's asking ogre, iksar or troll and he wants the best race (which is obviously why he's narrowed it down to these 3).

Looks like he is looking for some min max and why.

Ogre, case closed.


Ogre wins at HP.

Ogre has frontal stun resist, aka more time to build/hold agro + less spell interruptions.

Ogre receives the smallest racial exp penalty when compared to Troll and Iksar.

Trolls do look cool as fuck.

Iksars look like SHIT.

I'm an Ogre myself, call me biased....

[A1551]

So two of my friends in game have been threatening to roll SK's -- one ended up going DE and the other Ogre. Reading this thread got me interested in actually putting some numbers to the different choices. I admittedly pushed both to anything not a fatty b/c the idea of duoing with their 61-68% exp penalty makes me physically ill.

Using a "preview" maeglo and plugging in the base stats for a DE and Ogre at level 60, fully ungeared gave the following (note I don't have a clue how accurate they are)

Ogre: 142 Stamina / 70 int, and also agi bumped to 75 to avoid penalty:
2266HP, 1215 mana
Dark Elf: 90 Sta, 109 Int
2033HP, 1451 mana

So basically the DE loses 233 hp at level 60 but gains 236 mana -- almost literally a 1 for 1 trade. I don't play an SK so have no idea how useful one is vs. the other.

The Ogre also has a substantial Str bonus -- 140 vs 70. I know Str doesn't do a whole lot point for point but I assume 70 points is pretty significant. Of course SK DPS is terrible anyway and really not why they exist!

Finally the DE picks up +15 agility and +5 dex vs ogre....but who cares.

Not being fat is a big convenience, and the DE definitely looks way cooler. Racial hide on DE is not useless (for afk medding etc.) although not a huge deal since SK's get FD anyway. Slam could be a big deal, although I feel like most SK's I see are using a shield / 1 hander, and there's always ghetto bashing. Now frontal stun immunity -- This is the only place I can see where being the ogre might really let an SK be better at their job, as not being stunned while casting spells to gain aggro could mean holding aggro better.

Based on all this I think it proves the oft repeated "there is no wrong answer play what you like" statement. Pure powergaming perspective the ogre is definitely "better" but surely not 21% better -- from a group looking for a tanks perspective a DE SK is probably the better choice. If the group has no shaman and is in an old world dungeon, that "better" ogre SK might literally be useless to them. I guess it comes down to the player's tolerance for grinding -- is leveling 21-28% slower and not fitting through old world architecture for a few advantages a fair trade?

For me I'd say no -- If I need a tank I know the small race SK will do just fine and suck up less exp. But that is based on my own personal valuation of the extra exp penalty. I certainly understand the draw to pick the bigass fatty with twice the strength etc.

*Final note -- I compared ogre and DE because that's what my friends were considering, but for all intensive purposes the comparison is big race vs small race.

[Splorf22]

1. You need to join the A-team Propo.

2. I think its not so much aggro lost from the bashes as FD splits. When you are trying to split 3-4 mobs thats when the stun immunity is nice.

3. I don't think max mana pool matters for SKs nearly as much as max hp.

Of course, as you said its not a huge deal.

[A1551]

Haha Splorf -- you guys are awesome so I'll take that as a big compliment, very happy with AG tho!

You're right about the FD splits, it's not something I had considered and is something that'd probably have a noticeable impact on a groups exp rate if the SK is pulling and breaking a lotta spawns. Still -- I always remember being in unrest or mistmoore and having noone to pull because the SK was a fatty and couldnt fit through the castle door without getting beat to death. Not really an issue in kunark, or if the SK can afford shrink pots.

[Grimmly Fireforge]

Nice post Propo, but racial exp penalty isn't shared with groupmates. Only the class penalty.

[Vellatri]

I'm pretty sure a 52 stamina difference will amount to 260hp at level 60 because knights get 5hp/sta at level 60. I could be wrong, but I wouldn't trust Magelo to get it right either. Anyone know the exact formula for SK mana/int? Is it .2 mana/int/level?

There's no such thing as "complete mana heal" so a large HP pool is more important for combat. High intelligence does have the added benefit of faster tradeskilling, though, which I make use of.

I would love the frontal stun immunity. For tanking in general, that would greatly help in managing aggro whether it be from more freedom to move or spellcasting. Ogres can still get interrupted due to melee push, though.

That being said, I play a Dark Elf and love it. Yes, I'm aware of the "all points into stamina" argument, but I did 10/10 on str/sta. If I was min/maxing, I'd be an ogre.

[Beaniron]

I prefer Dark Elf just because of the sheer level of evil such a class/race combo emits (and more armor choices), but I would say Troll is your best choice. Slam, higher regen, and more friendly caster stats than Ogres. Ogres DO have frontal stun immunity which goes a LONG way though.

Besides, I have a problem with Ogres being Shadowknights. Ogres aren't really malicious or sinister anyway, so I don't understand why they're allowed to be SK's. They're not "evil" in nature, they're just stupid.

[Vellatri]

Just a small correction: ogres actually have 7 more wisdom and 8 more intelligence than trolls.

Ogres also have skulls on their plate, which I'll admit is pretty cool. My dark elf female has a small skull on her breastplate, but I'm not sure about males. Regardless, I completely agree that dark elves just scream evil.

[A1551]

Nice post Propo, but racial exp penalty isn't shared with groupmates. Only the class penalty.

To my knowledge this is incorrect. I will concede the possibility I am wrong and I'd like to hear why you think that. The exp penalty works by making any given race and class combination require more experience to attain the same level compared to normal. The race and class penalty combine as multipliers in a formula that spits out a higher exp need to level -- pretty straight forward.

Likewise, when you group and kill something, the game divides up the experience based on the total experience each player has attained. So if player A has 200 xp and player B has 100, player A essentially gets 2/3rds of the experience awarded.

So from a practical perspective, this means an ogre SK will take a greater share of the exp pie than a DE SK of the same level, who will likewise take more exp than a human cleric of the same level, because the ogre SK will have a lot more total experience. Based on this it really doesn't make any sense to think the racial penalty is not shared by groups. This would be easy to prove or disprove experimentally using a couple of level ones, but unless you have some strong evidence to support that racial penalties aren't shared I'd say its a foregone conclusion.

My reference: http://wiki.project1999.org/Game_Mechanics#How_Experience_Works

[gotrocks]

Fairly sure race/class penalty combines in a group.

I haven't seen any evidence to the contrary, but if there is some, i'd be very interested in seeing it.

[Duckforceone]

Besides, I have a problem with Ogres being Shadowknights. Ogres aren't really malicious or sinister anyway, so I don't understand why they're allowed to be SK's. They're not "evil" in nature, they're just stupid.

Have you ever read the backstory on ogres?

They were actually very evil and strong and intelligent. They were about to dominate the entire world... then they were struck down and cursed, and turned into the stupid ogre's they are today...

[Vertiggo]

I'm an erudite sk which stats wise is the worst.. Also I forgot to boost starting agi to 75 so I constantly have to wear +5 agi, but am I gonna reroll ogre no, it's just how I have to play this char, and being an sk has more to do with payin attention than the other tank classes and less to do with stats

[Aprisle]

does the stun immunity even work right now?

[Danth]

I'm told Ogre stun resistance works, but there's some confusion about what folks expect from it. Ogres aren't wholly stun immune. They're immune to physical stuns (bash, basically) from the frontal direction only. They're as vulnerable as anyone else is to spell-based stuns, bashes from the flanks or rear, and to general spell channeling failures. It's still a strong racial, possibly the best single racial attribute--but it isn't a full immunity.


The question is how large a frontal cone counts as "front" on P1999.

Danth

[Nirgon]

Iksar in Velious bros. Very godly.

[pharmakos]

iksar are the best SKs once velious hits, right?

since they can wear velious plate and still get their natural AC boost

[happyhappy]

Stun Immunity is still a thing, and giant class monsters can stun on hit and bash.

So yeah, they'll be better in some situations, but I would not go as far as saying best.

The lack of decent shield to go along with Greenmist kind of is a bummer as well.

[Nogdar]

While I get your point Oli, you don't tell the full story. More than survival, ogre frontal immunity is a comfort tool (as is the troll regen). On long casts (clicky gloves snare for example), it's a bloody good comfort knowing you won't get bashed during the cast and have to start over again.. And then when tanking it's nice never being stunned, especially in raids.

On the other hand, I've always thought & claimed that iksar/trolls SK take less time to level as the regeneration vastly overshadows the slightly worse xp penalty than the one of the ogres.

Also, I agree that all the other races are somewhat subpar in comparison, but I still believe people should play for fun and not for stats :p As to Ogre/Troll, guess it all evens out at the end of the day.. Just people pick the one you think is cooler, funnier, or whatever :p

[galvaunis]

Stun Immunity is still a thing, and giant class monsters can stun on hit and bash.

So yeah, they'll be better in some situations, but I would not go as far as saying best.

The lack of decent shield to go along with Greenmist kind of is a bummer as well.

greenmist will never be on p1999

[happyhappy]

greenmist will never be on p1999

Feel free to peruse the forums for the half a dozen threads about it, it was proved to be released and completed 3 months before Luclin.

[Zeelot]

It will never be usable by other races though. Iksar only for life

[raff01]

- Human SK's : balanced, non KOs to most but no real friends either. no racial attributes, no high stats anywhere. Cool looks however.

- Iksar SK's : imo the best. Racial attributes like regen and better AC, best Sta / int / Str / Dex / agi combo of all SK races. They get Greenmist which is far easier to do than Innoruuk's curse and its really unique. Once Velious is out, they get to wear the same armor as others thus getting an AC boost.
Only real problem is faction and finding certain pieces of armor.

- Troll SK's : they do look cool and really evil. Troll regen + very good sta and str. However rather low int, which mean small mana pool and crappy dex too.

- Ogre SK's : Best Sta and Str of all, and frontal stun immunity. However poorest int dex and agi. Personally I think Ogre SK's are just a poor man's warrior since the int is so low.

- Dark Elf SK's : 2nd coolest looking ones, very good int, small race (useful in many places) however very low sta/str plus KOs all over.

- Erudite SK's : best int of all meaning biggest mana pool. Also imo coolest look and coolest home city. however weak Sta and Str wise.

[pharmakos]

Erudite SKs also have base 70AGI, so you'll be facing an AC penalty unless you stick 5 starting points into AGI. only SK race that you need to do that with.

[Splorf22]

So

a) Iksars can't use the blood ember greaves which have a nice 3s FD
b) AFAIK SKs can pull anything by just spamming the cos and taunting . . . unless you get bashed

between the two of those i think thats a pretty strong argument for ogre. but i've never actually played an SK.

[Zeelot]

One nice advantage Dark Elves have that no on has mentioned yet is Ring of the Dead. The ability to bind like a caster, at the cost of 10gold to recharge it.

[Nirgon]

Dark elf is nice for having something to blame your failures on if you come face to face with them.

[raff01]

So

a) Iksars can't use the blood ember greaves which have a nice 3s FD
b) AFAIK SKs can pull anything by just spamming the cos and taunting . . . unless you get bashed

between the two of those i think thats a pretty strong argument for ogre. but i've never actually played an SK.

So let me fix that for you : Blood ember is absolutely useless once Velious gets released. only benefit is AC, and the effects are all absolutely useless or close to.
3 sec FD? I've played a SK for 3 years and at high level 3 sec for FD is just as good as commiting suicide. its completely utterly useless.
The only good piece of blood ember is the BP due to Major Shielding which SK's dont get in their spell line.
The rest is just a waste of time...I mean 7 sec fear that lasts 10 secs? please...
Blood ember has to be one of the worst sets of armor of the Kunark armor sets.
Also its much easier to just camp Kael Arena with a group and obtain Thurgadin armor than having to be the lucky winner or the blood ember BP or Legs by killing VS or Trakanon.

[Nogdar]

- Human SK's : balanced, non KOs to most but no real friends either. no racial attributes, no high stats anywhere. Cool looks however.

- Iksar SK's : imo the best. Racial attributes like regen and better AC, best Sta / int / Str / Dex / agi combo of all SK races. They get Greenmist which is far easier to do than Innoruuk's curse and its really unique. Once Velious is out, they get to wear the same armor as others thus getting an AC boost.
Only real problem is faction and finding certain pieces of armor.

- Troll SK's : they do look cool and really evil. Troll regen + very good sta and str. However rather low int, which mean small mana pool and crappy dex too.

- Ogre SK's : Best Sta and Str of all, and frontal stun immunity. However poorest int dex and agi. Personally I think Ogre SK's are just a poor man's warrior since the int is so low.

- Dark Elf SK's : 2nd coolest looking ones, very good int, small race (useful in many places) however very low sta/str plus KOs all over.

- Erudite SK's : best int of all meaning biggest mana pool. Also imo coolest look and coolest home city. however weak Sta and Str wise.

Some misinformation and lack of it there if you gonna make an exhaustive list like that - if I may.

a) You don't mention the slam argument for trolls & ogres, which is a big argument. Having a stun with a short cooldown while wielding a 2h is just great, and given SKs weak dps, the damage it does is welcome.

b) Ogres have better INT than trolls, contrary to your claim, and while 75 DEX isn't anything to be proud of, Trolls have the 2nd best base DEX after Iksars

Erudite SKs also have base 70AGI, so you'll be facing an AC penalty unless you stick 5 starting points into AGI. only SK race that you need to do that with.

c) Ogres also need to put 5 points in AGI or gear accordingly if they don't, as they also start at 70.

d) Also, about the blood ember, while I globally agree with you, saying the full set is useless is by far an overstatement. The gloves, especially while soloing or with a solid group which never lets you a second to meditate, are just godly. And being Ogre helps a ton there too, trust me :p Besides, I never got the boots and don't need them anymore I suppose, but I'm sure they're nice to have in the late 40s for soloing, sparing you a ton of mana if you have both hands & boots - a ton, I imagine.

No offense though, I'm a player who favours fun over min-maxing as much as I like my character to be optimized and always will claim one should play a race which he/she finds fun over optimized - however if we do compare em all thorougly, guess we gotta do it right, to help the people trying to decide on basis of this make the right choice :)

Cheers guys :)

[pharmakos]

ogres have 70 base AGI? never realized. thanks.

[Danth]

I agree that Blood Ember gauntlets are well worth having. Blood Ember Vambraces also have fair use during the Kunark period. Effectively they either allow the user to keep Vampiric Embrace up when he otherwise wouldn't, or at least saves the user a spell slot given the short duration of that spell. I use them constantly. With an upgrade to this spell during Velious, the arms will lose much of their worth then.

The Dark Elf/Human/Erudite Shadow Knights--particularly the Humans and Erudites--do offer a fair advantage for a certain sort of player. Given their faster leveling rate and better starting faction (in the case of the latter two), they represent a good choice for casual players who may not even reach the level cap. A couple extra levels will improve a character's combat performance more than stats or racial abilities. While unrelated to the original poster (who was only interested in Ogre, Troll, or Iksar) such advantages may be of use to some other folks.

My own Shadow Knight is a Human and I remain content with that choice. Were I an Ogre or Troll I wouldn't even be 60 yet and wouldn't have had the faction ease-of-use which I enjoy having--I don't have the time or the inclination to spend hours and hours fixing faction to be able to go where I want to go. A min-maxer might balk at the stat and racial ability loss, but it suits my own needs perfectly.

Danth

[Tecmos Deception]

3 sec FD? I've played a SK for 3 years and at high level 3 sec for FD is just as good as commiting suicide. its completely utterly useless.

Spoken like someone who has never had BE greaves.

You can use BE greaves even when your spell gem FD is on CD. How is that not awesome?

[raff01]

Spoken like someone who has never had BE greaves.

You can use BE greaves even when your spell gem FD is on CD. How is that not awesome?

What's the use of using BE FD when your FD gem is on? I mean its twice the casting time of FD and 3 times Death Peace.
Sure death peace is Velious which still is classic, but why would you want to use a 3 sec FD when you can cast a 1,5 sec FD?
BE greaves have nice stats on it, but hey with Velious they end up the best race.

[falkun]

/facepalm

[Splorf22]

That was my only point: if your FD fails you can use the greaves. It does seem that in Velious according to Lucy Death peace has a 4s recast time so they would be unnecessary. So based on this I would say in Velious Ogre > Iksar > Troll > DE/Human/Erudite. In Kunark Iksars are simply the worst.

P.S. When someone posts /facepalm after your post, it means you are doing something wrong

P.P.S. Danth, what's your char name?

[raff01]

That was my only point: if your FD fails you can use the greaves. It does seem that in Velious according to Lucy Death peace has a 4s recast time so they would be unnecessary. So based on this I would say in Velious Ogre > Iksar > Troll > DE/Human/Erudite. In Kunark Iksars are simply the worst.

P.S. When someone posts /facepalm after your post, it means you are doing something wrong

P.P.S. Danth, what's your char name?

Indeed. point taken, when I played my SK in the higher levels, I was already in the Velious era so yeah.
Still, 3 secs is a huge deal when having to stand still and hope not getting interrupted.
I did own BE greaves, and I did try the FD on it. And most of the time, 3 secs was just way too long and would most often get me in trouble.
Also even in Kunark Era, Iksar still > human, eru and DE imo for the fact that they get the regen and that they get to have a unique epic that is waaaay easier to do than the classic SK epic and can actually be finished fairly easily without a guild and with just a few friends.

[Danth]

I concur, Velious and Death Peace should make the greaves much less attractive. That being said they'll still have very good stats by the standards of droppable gear.

Splorf22, my Shadow Knight is named Andoric. Mostly I duo with the wife. My Paladin (my forum namesake) has been basically inactive since 2011.

EDIT:

PS : who cares of faction when you can FD and bank anywhere in the world...?

I do. I consider feign banking a nuisance at best and the associated merchant selling difficulties an unwanted hassle. I like convenience. As I noted, min-maxers balk at such a choice but it works for me and what I want out of P1999.


Danth

[Bamzal Sherbet]

Stun immunity best racial trait ever.

specially on pvp server

[Malrubius]

Troll/Iksar regen is like having a permanent Fungi Tunic at level 60. If you already have one, it's like wearing two. :D

[raff01]

Blood ember greaves allow you to cast FD without any countdown. The spell is 1,5sec casting time but has 15 sec of recast time while the greaves are 3sec but NO RECAST TIME

3 sec for FD is pretty good, you just have no idea what you're talking about ...

PS : who cares of faction when you can insta invis (with CoS) and FD then bank anywhere in the world...?

Oli

3 sec FD pretty good? and I'm the one who has no idea what im talking about?
Usually 2 situations where FD is used for SK's : pulling and avoiding death.
I've played long enough at high level to know 1,5 sec already makes it quite hard. Hell even with deathpeace I wished I was a monk in Sebilis when mobs chain cast on you, or when you have to split those mobs for pulling.
So 3 secs? give me a fucking break. 3 sec may only give you an additional chance if FD fails. With Deathpeace its rendered useless.

And not everyone can insta invis with CoS cause it cause its been nerfed and pre nerf is ungodly expensive and not everyone wants to farm over 50k for one piece of item...

[Tecmos Deception]

Still, 3 secs is a huge deal when having to stand still and hope not getting interrupted.

That's why ogre is teh best!


most of the time, 3 secs was just way too long and would most often get me in trouble.

Get you in trouble? You're still missing the point. The greaves aren't for using as a mana-saving tool or something. You use them when you are already IN trouble because your spell FD failed, or if maybe you've LoSed stuff that is some distance behind you and you have a bit of time to spare, etc. How in the world could an item that gives you an ability you did not have before, even if it isn't an instant-cast, guaranteed success FD that fully blurs the whole zone while also DTing any raid mobs within 300 feet, not be awesome?

[raff01]

That's why ogre is teh best!




Get you in trouble? You're still missing the point. The greaves aren't for using as a mana-saving tool or something. You only use them when you are already IN trouble because your spell FD failed.

I agree with your point, and as I said, never thought about it before since I was always using deathpeace at high level.
I was just responding to a guy saying 3 secs was pretty good, which is nonsense.

[Tecmos Deception]

I was just responding to a guy saying 3 secs was pretty good, which is nonsense.

You might as well say that sunstrike is shitty because on live wizards can nuke for 100k or whatever. Who cares if 3 seconds on the greaves isn't as good as deathpeace? We don't have deathpeace here, just like wizards here don't have 100k nukes.

[Nogdar]

It's not nonsense. 3 secs isn't as good as 1,5 sec or anything below 3 secs, but it's better than not having that 3 secs-cast 2nd FD chance option. So it's pretty good indeed. I for one didn't know the greaves' cast didn't have a CD, and sure want a pair now^^

[raff01]

It's not nonsense. 3 secs isn't as good as 1,5 sec or anything below 3 secs, but it's better than not having that 3 secs-cast 2nd FD chance option. So it's pretty good indeed. I for one didn't know the greaves' cast didn't have a CD, and sure want a pair now^^

That applies in Kunark Era tho. And why would velious never be released?

[pharmakos]

Troll/Iksar regen is like having a permanent Fungi Tunic at level 60. If you already have one, it's like wearing two. :D

srsly? how much hp/tick does a troll get at level 60?

[Nogdar]

Level Range Human Regen / Iksar Regen
Level 1-19 2 sitting, 1 FD, 1 standing / 4 sitting, 2 FD, 2 standing
Level 20-49 3 sitting, 1 FD, 1 standing / 6 sitting, 2 FD, 2 standing
Level 50 4 sitting, 1 FD, 1 standing / 8 sitting, 2 FD, 2 standing
Level 51-55 5 sitting, 3 FD, 2 standing / 12 sitting, 8 FD, 6 standing
Level 56-59 6 sitting, 4 FD, 3 standing / 16 sitting, 12 FD, 10 standing
Level 60 7 sitting, 5 FD, 4 standing / 18 sitting, 14 FD, 12 standing

Taken from Monk page on wiki

[pharmakos]

wow i never realized it scaled up that much

thats so worth it lol

[raff01]

Level Range Human Regen / Iksar Regen
Level 1-19 2 sitting, 1 FD, 1 standing / 4 sitting, 2 FD, 2 standing
Level 20-49 3 sitting, 1 FD, 1 standing / 6 sitting, 2 FD, 2 standing
Level 50 4 sitting, 1 FD, 1 standing / 8 sitting, 2 FD, 2 standing
Level 51-55 5 sitting, 3 FD, 2 standing / 12 sitting, 8 FD, 6 standing
Level 56-59 6 sitting, 4 FD, 3 standing / 16 sitting, 12 FD, 10 standing
Level 60 7 sitting, 5 FD, 4 standing / 18 sitting, 14 FD, 12 standing

Taken from Monk page on wiki

Thanks for clearing that up for our friend saying Iksar is the worst class in Kunark...

[Splorf22]

I play an iksar warrior. I am down about 100AC and 300 HP vs the TMO cobalt/ogre crew. That makes me about 15% less tanky, and if you don't think that outweighs any regen . . . I suppose with SKs it isn't as bad though as you can use the will of innoruuk. But basically I think almost everything you have said in this thread has been wrong.

[Slytherin]

But basically I think almost everything you have said in this thread has been wrong.

[raff01]

I play an iksar warrior. I am down about 100AC and 300 HP vs the TMO cobalt/ogre crew. That makes me about 15% less tanky, and if you don't think that outweighs any regen . . . I suppose with SKs it isn't as bad though as you can use the will of innoruuk. But basically I think almost everything you have said in this thread has been wrong.

Not really, I just defended the fact that Iksar was an excellent choice for SK.
And frankly once Velious is out, it truely is.

[Ele]

This should be a best of P99 thread.

[Nogdar]

Yes Oli, it's true, but we've also been gifted with 2 wonderful screenshots of Brutillus' face with interesting angles. Maybe we should post our sexy faces too to enlighten this thread a little more still!

[raff01]

Go Troll :) Iksar regen + Ogre stats!

Raff01, stop talking please.



Yeah so far we have seen :
- Pick DE for racial Hide, when every SK has hide at lv 35 whatever race he is
- Trolls have more INT than Ogres, which is .... false
- BE Greaves are useless, when they're actually the best Kunark armor Greaves...
- Not every SK has a Circlet of Shadows because it has been nerfed and it's very expensive... Uh nope, worth 1k at EC because it's a common drop and won't be nerfed anytime soon

Best thread ever

Oli

I was wrong for troll INT I got no pb with that.
never said BE greaves were useless, said that the clickable 3sec FD was useless in Velious era which is true. As I said, I started playing in the Velious era. Also when I played on live, CoS had been nerfed and pre nerfed one was well over 50k. I didn't know it hadn't been nerfed on this server.

But since this kind of stuff seems to turn you on, in the list you could add :
- Velious will probably never be released on P99

[raff01]

http://www.project1999.org/forums/showthread.php?t=76729&page=13

Seems like they're working on it. Just looks like they're struggling with getting all the pieces together with regards to the quests.

[Malrubius]

Level Range Human Regen / Iksar Regen
Level 1-19 2 sitting, 1 FD, 1 standing / 4 sitting, 2 FD, 2 standing
Level 20-49 3 sitting, 1 FD, 1 standing / 6 sitting, 2 FD, 2 standing
Level 50 4 sitting, 1 FD, 1 standing / 8 sitting, 2 FD, 2 standing
Level 51-55 5 sitting, 3 FD, 2 standing / 12 sitting, 8 FD, 6 standing
Level 56-59 6 sitting, 4 FD, 3 standing / 16 sitting, 12 FD, 10 standing
Level 60 7 sitting, 5 FD, 4 standing / 18 sitting, 14 FD, 12 standing

Taken from Monk page on wiki

And Troll regen is the same as the above. Basically, if you are a Troll or Iksar, you are running around with permanent Chloroplast post-55.

[Lorraine]

I play an iksar warrior. I am down about 100AC and 300 HP vs the TMO cobalt/ogre crew. That makes me about 15% less tanky, and if you don't think that outweighs any regen . . .


Now now.. Come'ere.. Everything will be alright.
Rest your head on my 1100+ac shoulder, friend, you can bawl your eyes out.

#Igotyourback

[Fazlazen]

The guy talking about the uselessness of BE greaves once in velious does have a point tho. With death peace + feign death memmed, you have 2 FD, one that has a 4 sec refresh, so it renders the BE greaves completely useless. The stats are not good on them either.

There is an 8pt differencial when standing in regen between iksar/trolls and the rest of them. Let's not make that racial trait something it isnt. It's nice, but it is nowhere close to how OP stun immunity is. I died many times because I could not get the FD off with 4-5 mobs beating on me and interrupting my 1.5 sec FD cast.

Iksars do have a about 100 less AC than other SKs with similar gear during Kunark, so I would say they probably make the worst SK before velious releases. We do mitigate less, I would love to test it out with another SK on juggs sometimes to see the difference.

The slam ability isnt very usefull now for end game sks with epic cause we either use epic or 1hander + shield so slam doesnt get any use. Once we hit velious and Inny's curse gets replaced, slam will once again have its use and its very nice for interrupting casters. Dont talk about the dps plz, its negligeable.

All in all, race doesn't matter imo. You can have the best gear and be an ogre and still be a baddie, but Ogre and trolls in kunark have the edge for sure if you're into min maxing.

[Nirgon]

The standing iksar regen and bonus fire demand your attention if you're gonna poop sock your life into a char. Otherwise, go ogre.

[Junkman]

iksar are pretty beast in velious but till then they kinda suck regen is nice tho but the 68% pent sucks lol

[Swish]

I can only speak for me, but rare is the occasion where I need a tank and have the choice between 2 different races at once...and above that, I'd pick you based on previous experiences of keeping aggro, FD pulling, etc etc.

Your reputation for many people comes way above "oh, not that iksar...they're less tanky". From a cleric's point of view a CH is a CH, if I've got clarity it's not going to make a blind bit of difference :P
Also, in my experience min/maxers tend to leave if they're not getting the XP rate they want per hour... play the game and enjoy it :)

[Tecmos Deception]

I understand that some people pick race based purely on aesthetics, and that's fine. But I really wonder how many of the people who think that stun immunity isn't that big of a deal have ever tried playing an ogre SK/sham for 20+ levels.

You may think "oh hey, it wasn't too hard to get spells off with my DE SK, so the ogre racial must not be that great." But I guarantee if you spend a bit of time with the stun immunity, you'll start to regret ever spending time on a SK/sham that didn't have it.

[Swish]

You may think "oh hey, it wasn't too hard to get spells off with my DE SK, so the ogre racial must not be that great." But I guarantee if you spend a bit of time with the stun immunity, you'll start to regret ever spending time on a SK/sham that didn't have it.

Most SK spells are relatively short duration, if you watch for the mob's bash attempt and cast immediately after it there's no issue. If you have 4+ mobs with no CC'er on the other hand, you'll only be reaching for disease cloud anyway to keep them pinned on you and away from the cleric and that's a quick cast.

I think stun immunity is *puts sunglasses on*.... ogre'rated :P

http://i.imgur.com/lMoQY.gif

[Tecmos Deception]

Most SK spells are relatively short duration, if you watch for the mob's bash attempt and cast immediately after it there's no issue. If you have 4+ mobs with no CC'er on the other hand, you'll only be reaching for disease cloud anyway to keep them pinned on you and away from the cleric and that's a quick cast.

I think stun immunity is *puts sunglasses on*.... ogre'rated :P

http://i.imgur.com/lMoQY.gif

I notice you didn't say anywhere that you've actually played both an ogre sk/sham and a non-ogre sk/sham and that you still think stun immunity isn't all that great :)

Kind not thinking you've played a SK at all though. 4+ mobs with no CCer and the SK is only going to be using DC for aggro?

[Splorf22]

I would think ogre would be the clear min/max choice for SK if only to increase the chance of getting FD off with multiple mobs on you.

[Nihilist_santa]

I played a Troll SK on live and Regen is not to be underestimated for a soloing tank class. Just think about all the time you have spent on your back as an SK and you might understand why that regen helps. I would definitely say IKS or TRL if you can stomach the penalty. Many times I had groups wipe while I laid there and regened and got the hell out of dodge or saved the day on the CR. Regen is passive and always working with no thought. Fear kiting allows lower downtime as you are regenerating while fighting. Seems like regen for monks and necros makes them king and I would say the same for SK. Frontal stun immunity was something I never even noticed I was missing as a troll SK splitting camps to be honest as its pretty situational because of positioning.
Once Velious comes out I would say that aside from slam or faction there is no reason not to be an IKS.

[mwatt]

Velious is already so much late, they're not even talking about it. It's not on beta test yet, said to be worked out but we have 0 news about it, nor any release date.

And since Devs seem to be working more on the classic things of the server as it is now, you can probly wonder WHO is actually working on Velious. How much progression it is at atm. We have no clue at all.

Conclusion : Velious will probably never been released.

All of the things you said about Velious could also have been said (and were) about Kunark.

oops

[TxRanjahs]

Ogre best!!

[TxRanjahs]

Troll close 2nd ....and this is on looks alone

[raff01]

So far I played 3 races for SK :

Human
Troll
Iksar

I would say Troll really makes it easier in the early levels for several reasons :
Grobb being right next to guk which gives you a place to xp from lvl 4 to lvl 50 with tons of loot and nice xp bonus + groups, you can come and go sell, get new spells etc in matter of minutes. My troll SK leveled from 1 to 35 really fast and quickly got a lot of plat due to often looting stuff like runed bone fork etc. Stats are nice and the regen bonus is a must.

Iksar SK is a pain in the ass early on. Faction sucks, limited armor to chose from.
However, when you reach the higher levels, and once Velious comes out, you will have a significant AC bonus, a regen and a unique epic which is one of the best 1handers in the game and much easier to get than Innoruk's curse.

Human SK's are cool for roleplay imo and xp faster...

And last but not least : Iksars have a normal size and won't need a guise in order to be confortable in many places. When playing a troll or Ogre If you can get a guise well that's cool but otherwise, you'll always struggle in many dungeons and it sucks.

[diplo]

what does it matter on a blue server? play what you think looks the coolest.

[Splorf22]

Gnome is the best at everything

[pharmakos]

gno gnome sk's on p99 :(

gnot a single one

[big league chew]

troll obv best
anyone who says otherwise is tryin to trick you

[Korisek]

Erudite SKs for the wow factor.

[TarukShmaruk]

How does Ogre stun immunity work?

In EQ live it was just immunity to frontal stuns on a bash - didn't do anything for stun spells or getting hit in the back.

[Danth]

That's precisely what it is, Taruk. Some players are just a bit too generic and/or don't realize that it isn't full stun immunity.

Danth

[webrunner5]

Iksars have a normal size and won't need a guise in order to be confortable in many places. When playing a troll or Ogre If you can get a guise well that's cool but otherwise, you'll always struggle in many dungeons and it sucks.


Almost all the good loot is in dungeons. And Ogres, Trolls suck in dungeons size wise. Indoor shrink pots cost 250 plat a stack. 25 plat a pop. Like 3 people in P1999 have a Guise SK. So it is pretty expensive to play a large race anything on this game. Something to keep in mind.

[Faerie]

Not sure if it's been mentioned yet or not, but gnome SK is the obvious answer. Nerfed here for a reason: they were OP.

[gotrocks]

Not sure if it's been mentioned yet or not, but gnome SK is the obvious answer. Nerfed here for a reason: they were OP.

+1

faerie got a thing for them gnomes

[Cords]

Ogre is the best choice hands down, that doesn't stop me from loving my Iksar Sk any less :P

[1203jjt]

After reading this whole thread, I'm rolling an Erudite.

[big league chew]

learn to play before you worry about min-maxing

besides who even cares about stats its all about the looks nameeen
arent u all bluebies anyway, npcs are easy as fuck dont even buy gear just equip starter short sword and win

[p-niner]

god chew ur a big time blueb

[xcyberpeenixx]

Almost all the good loot is in dungeons. And Ogres, Trolls suck in dungeons size wise. Indoor shrink pots cost 250 plat a stack. 25 plat a pop. Like 3 people in P1999 have a Guise SK. So it is pretty expensive to play a large race anything on this game. Something to keep in mind.


+1 for truth. I cant say how many times ive seen Ogres die in dungeons, especially befallen due to getting stuck in doors and objects. F#*k that.

[August]

No one mentioned darkies?

Darkie SK4life

[big league chew]

http://i1227.photobucket.com/albums/ee432/robn3030/ding3_zps0584d749.gif

[lecompte]

Gnome /nod

[pharmakos]

^^ would be true if gnomes could be SKs on P99. no shrink potions needed, and they'd be the only SKs that could wear Enchanted Dwarven Plate

[kaev]

^^ would be true if gnomes could be SKs on P99. no shrink potions needed, and they'd be the only SKs that could wear Enchanted Dwarven Plate

Yeah, just what we need. More toons wearing armor that should be quite a bit more rare and far more expensive (minimum 10x jacinth each consumed for BP & Legs, assuming no combine fails along the way, lol).

[pharmakos]

armor that should be quite a bit more rare and far more expensive

i've heard people say this before, but don't know many of the details. could you elaborate? :)

[kaev]

i've heard people say this before, but don't know many of the details. could you elaborate? :)

http://www.project1999.org/forums/showthread.php?t=94329

Enchant Mithril -- Blue Diamond
Enchant Adamantite -- Blue Diamond
Enchant Steel -- Jacinth
Enchant Brellium -- Jacinth


So minimum of 10x the required gem for chest/legs/back, assuming no combines fail.

[Berendar]

Can Hummy and Erudite SK's do the gnoll fang quest in Qeynos? I'm pretty sure necro's can.

[1203jjt]

I know they can do the orc belts in FP...not sure about gnoll fangs though.

[Nirgon]

That level up animation is not classic

[Junkman]

iksar> all

[Danth]

Note that the gnoll fang quest in Qeynos reduces faction with the local necromancer/SK guild. This can be inconvenient if you accidentally lower it too far and find yourself unable to train locally.

My human SK had no other trouble doing the gnoll fang quest.

Danth

[pharmakos]

iksar> all

idk if that's true during kunark since iksars can only wear chain armor currently.... but once velious hits and iksars can wear endgame plate this is definitely true.

[Berendar]

Note that the gnoll fang quest in Qeynos reduces faction with the local necromancer/SK guild. This can be inconvenient if you accidentally lower it too far and find yourself unable to train locally.

My human SK had no other trouble doing the gnoll fang quest.

Danth

On my human necro I thought this but handed in a load of fangs and my guild still loved me. Maybe its not working as intended.

Actually I've answered my own question as the SK guild still liked me as well. :)