Why the pet exp penalty came about?

[BennoFlo]

Is there any reason besides afk leveling that this change came about?

I just started playing a necro and was totally unaware of this change until today. I started EQ on live in the velious era and played a bard, so this didn't affect me, but after reading a few forum posts, it really urks me.

I feel one of the key points of a pet class is to utilize, buff, and accent your pet to be a successful player, and I feel like these changes almost divert from that concept. For example, if I get spells to buff my pet's damage later on, I will in no way be encouraged to use them because it greatly increases the chance of losing the dmg race with my pet.

Also, since this is a community server and not run by a bunch of corporate BS, was this change a consensus among players? It just seems so counter-intuitive in my knowledge of old world and new world mmo's to intentionally nerf your pet's potential in order for higher experience gain.

Thoughts?

[Furniture]

in case you havent noticed the devs here are trying to emulate the mechanics for the era the servers in

[ManticSquee]

It's just the way the game is set up. Different races and classes have unique abilities that are offset by xp penalties. If you are say a Troll Shadow Knight you would have 68% xp penalty essentially. You wouldn't be losing xp just required to gain much more than a class/race combo that has less important abilities. Just look at pet classes as receiving a penalty for having the unique and powerful ability to use pets. At least when you are grouped it goes away and there are other ways around it also.

[Heavydrop]

Thought it was just mages that had the pet exp penalty and not necros?

[ManticSquee]

People have been talking about both and even charmed pets. I'm under the impression that it applies to all pets. I would look it up to make sure but I have to leave for work. Try wiki or searching for it in the forum if you are still curious.

[Chedduh]

all pet classes are effected, mages are just generally the most talked about because they can't handle the aggro from trying to out dps their mobs as efficiently as a chanter or necro

[goshozal]

1) It applies to all pet classes, including charmed pets

2) It only applies while solo, and only if the pet does more than 50% of the damage for a given kill. There are ways around this mechanic (mem blur for enchanters, reclaim for mages, and so on).

3) The same penalty was on live, and therefore it was implemented here. The reasoning for it was that mages could do nothing but chain cast fire pets and /afk their way to 50 during vanilla. Verant answered the QQ from other classes with the mighty nerfbat.

[BennoFlo]

Isn't getting around game mechanics through loopholes (killing pet, grouping with someone not in the same zone as you) considered exploiting?

[BennoFlo]

3) The same penalty was on live, and therefore it was implemented here. The reasoning for it was that mages could do nothing but chain cast fire pets and /afk their way to 50 during vanilla. Verant answered the QQ from other classes with the mighty nerfbat.

From searching around, I think the mechanic was quite different on live in the Kunark era. From Live patch notes:

Situation 1 - You are soloing and you have a summoned pet-
* If you do any damage to the monster at all, you get all of the experience.
* If you don't do any damage to the monster, the pet gets 75% of the experience.

Situation 2 - You are in a group and you have a summoned pet-
* If you or your group do any damage to the monster at all, your group gets all of the experience.
* If you or your group don't do any damage to the monster, the pet gets 75% of the experience.

In my opinion, these rules are much better, and they still prevent afk leveling.

[Somekid123]

Killing pet is not an exploit to getting around it. Grouping with someone outside a different zone would be and was done when you could, but its been nerf'd for over a year now, believe me ive tested it. :D

[BennoFlo]

I'm sure it just bothers me now because my dps is pretty low on my necro. Once I get higher levels, I'm sure it won't be a problem getting more than 50% dmg.

Now, doing over 50% dmg with spells (fizzles, etc) makes me go oom on one mob.

[goshozal]

I haven't gone searching for the old patch notes, but it "feels" like it used to on my necro on live. I remember trying to make sure I was doing at least 51% of the damage if I was solo with my pet out.

*shrug*

[Silo69]

as a 50+ necro, using your pet in non group situations... lol

i can not out dps the pet to "Grind" xp, unless its a camp or an item i want. I havn't used the pet solo since the nerf went live. Its just not feasable. Gl trying to out dps the 53 rogue pet, or the 56 monk pet. It just isnt hapening, either your pet tanking or fear kiting with a pet out.

You don't out dmg your pet, if you do. Your prob almost oom or not rdy to take on another mob or pull without downtime.

GL HF pet classes have been nerfed for good reason. I remember a mage went afk here and gained 10 lvls in oot.

[Silo69]

Now, doing over 50% dmg with spells (fizzles, etc) makes me go oom on one mob.

This dosen't change at 52, 55, 58, 59

same situation, you ll end a fight with a blue con and have a few blue but not enough to pull another

with most mobs you fight 55+ have 6-9k hp....

52 dot does 1600 dmg
55 dot does 1000 dmg
58 dot does 2000 dmg

even geared you wont be getting quality xp but you will get xp other than sitting lfg

[SamwiseRed]

I'm sure it just bothers me now because my dps is pretty low on my necro. Once I get higher levels, I'm sure it won't be a problem getting more than 50% dmg.

Now, doing over 50% dmg with spells (fizzles, etc) makes me go oom on one mob.

you really complaining about this? try soloing with a warrior, youll be ooh before the mob is dead. thats out of health if you didnt catch that.

[packmuleforlife]

From searching around, I think the mechanic was quite different on live in the Kunark era. From Live patch notes:

Situation 1 - You are soloing and you have a summoned pet-
* If you do any damage to the monster at all, you get all of the experience.
* If you don't do any damage to the monster, the pet gets 75% of the experience.

Situation 2 - You are in a group and you have a summoned pet-
* If you or your group do any damage to the monster at all, your group gets all of the experience.
* If you or your group don't do any damage to the monster, the pet gets 75% of the experience.

In my opinion, these rules are much better, and they still prevent afk leveling.
this please

[Victorio]

From searching around, I think the mechanic was quite different on live in the Kunark era. From Live patch notes:

Situation 1 - You are soloing and you have a summoned pet-
* If you do any damage to the monster at all, you get all of the experience.
* If you don't do any damage to the monster, the pet gets 75% of the experience.

Situation 2 - You are in a group and you have a summoned pet-
* If you or your group do any damage to the monster at all, your group gets all of the experience.
* If you or your group don't do any damage to the monster, the pet gets 75% of the experience.

In my opinion, these rules are much better, and they still prevent afk leveling.
No, these were the rules they changed to in like 2003. The classic and kunark era rules were that if you do over 50% of the damage to the mob, you get full xp, otherwise you get half xp.
I don't know who came up with the "pet takes 75% experience if it does 50% of the damage" that's listed on the FAQ. Like I said, I don't know if this is really the case, but I know that it
is crazy for necros. Don't forget that DoTs only do 2/3 damage if the mob is moving. I will find a way to test the system and report my results.

EDIT: Yeah I forgot fear kiting does full damage, I just haven't done it yet with this necro. Still, that means you need to use even more mana to make sure your DoTs do their full amount. Regardless, people in the other thread said that the pet only takes 50% not 75%. That's more in line with what EQLive used to have.

[Raavak]

Killing pet is not an exploit to getting around it. Grouping with someone outside a different zone would be and was done when you could, but its been nerf'd for over a year now, believe me ive tested it. :D

What happens if you are grouped with someone too low to get exp? Do you basically get it all then?

[Kender]

No, these were the rules they changed to in like 2003. The classic and kunark era rules were that if you do over 50% of the damage to the mob, you get full xp, otherwise you get half xp.
I don't know who came up with the "pet takes 75% experience if it does 50% of the damage" that's listed on the FAQ. Like I said, I don't know if this is really the case, but I know that it
is crazy for necros. Don't forget that DoTs only do 2/3 damage if the mob is moving, like when you fear kite. I will find a way to test the system and report my results.

dots should do full damage to a feared (or fleeing) target. reduced damage is to free moving mobs (ie ones that are running after someone)
if it's not working that way then something is wrong

[Estu]

dots should do full damage to a feared (or fleeing) target. reduced damage is to free moving mobs (ie ones that are running after someone)
if it's not working that way then something is wrong

DoTs indeed do full damage to feared/fleeing monsters.

[BennoFlo]

This dosen't change at 52, 55, 58, 59

same situation, you ll end a fight with a blue con and have a few blue but not enough to pull another

with most mobs you fight 55+ have 6-9k hp....

52 dot does 1600 dmg
55 dot does 1000 dmg
58 dot does 2000 dmg

even geared you wont be getting quality xp but you will get xp other than sitting lfg

:( This makes me sad... So should you just be expecting to take the 50% hit if you plan on soloing to 60? With the pet class penalty, you sit at -60% modifier if u can't out-dps your pet.

I guess you are soloing at an troll SK rate. :/

Unless you are an iksar necro, then even slower. LOL

[Snagglepuss]

What happens if you are grouped with someone too low to get exp? Do you basically get it all then?

This... Anyone tried it?

Or else we need to contact the Royal Akanon Center for the Advancement of Pet Classes. Or RACAP as they call it.