Proposed Raid Rule Adjustments/Changes
 

TMO would like to suggest the following changes to the current raid rules, in the spirit of improving the raiding environment for all involved:

- A reduction from 2 trackers per guild per zone to 1. We would like for VP/Trak to be an exception and remain at 2. With a specific two rangers only limit in VP, each of which must be parked in the 2 drake lava tube.

- When a raid mob spawns, any character already logged into the zone, including trackers, forfeit the right to contribute in any manner on that target for their guild. This includes securing FTE, any/all forms of stalling, healing/dps, the training away of mobs, and the opening of any doors. With the exception of a single coth mage at Trakanon, trackers are there to track and observe only. Inside VP, a designated exception period will also be given to each guild post-dragon-death to allow for CR'ing/rebuffs/looting, in the event of a back-to-back dragon spawn.

We believe these changes should help address the longstanding concerns regarding spam clicking/claims of autofire use/pet pulling, while hopefully reducing the zone-in poopsocking on select targets.

To reiterate on some grey areas:

- Fear/Hate - Nobody other then the tracker can be logged out in Fear/Hate. Period.

- If you have a 2 man coth team linked up in Seb, that's your 2 man limit at spawn and nobody else should be logging in down at the ledge.

- No guild may log in any more than 2 characters at any raid mob's spawn point, as per current rules.

I like the concept of not allowing trackers to engage, for whatever that's worth. Not sure most of the rest of it really makes much difference and won't comment on the VP stuff.

Small question for some clarity:

Taggers have to be parked at the designated 'accepted' parking spots in the zones and run from there to the dragon?

Fay- Ogre Isle
Sev- TT/EJ zone
KC- Zone line
Gore- ?
Tal- OT zone
Naggy- Lavastorm Zone in
Vox- EF zone in

Opinions on that thought?


Also I would like to see all guilds support a push to possibly get the outdoor dragons to spawn randomly along their pathing nodes....that way if we do use this proposal of no trackers tagging, the people running out to FTE, taggers are not bee lining to ONE location

they still have to 'find' the dragon and that is sometimes a skill within itself.

Not sure how hard this would be to code, and I know coding change suggestions give people trepidation...but it seems this would be a very classic change and I have heard alot of support for this.

thoughts?

I posted the OP proposal in the Taken officer forum for the officer group to comment, but I would be curious to hear what TMO and others think about my first question in this post.

No. They'll still camp at or near spawn, essentially replacing the previous duty of the trackers.

Problem with your idea being (and we gave this a previous try in VP btw) that it adds an extra layer of potential issues and policing needs to the equation. Was the guy that got in first really parked on spot X, or was he cheating up a few steps to get an edge? That will simply always be questioned by the losing side. Not to mention, is a bard race to every mob a better solution then at least allowing the opportunity for multiple classes to log in and snag an FTE for their guild? I personally don't think so.

It's like i told both Chest and you the other day when i approached you guys about our desire to get rid of the spam clicking FTE, this may not be a picture perfect answer but it is the lesser evil on the table atm/imo.

That really depends on what type of "difference" you are looking for here. I mean if you are not willing to match our one/half afk coth link in Seb and call in the troops for what has become an infinitely cleaner race to the successful engage, then yeah...you still won't be getting any FFA Traks.

Same goes for the proposal to reduce zone in poopsocking down to pre-camps only. The people willing to push the effort will still have an edge, but now that edge and it's "requirement" could only be pushed so far.

The above which should be fairly straight forward and easy to police among ourselves btw, especially in the event we were to all agree on a universal punishment for offenders beforehand. Which then doubles in the event it has to go to GM intervention and the offender is found in the wrong. For example:

Sirken: Hey Mazam, i hear Taken came to you immediately post-kill offering logs and asked that you forfeit that Sev TMO got an FTE/Kill on, with the understanding you'll be forfeiting the next one as well on grounds that Sericx never logged out and dps'd the dragon. You refused on your own claim that Sericx wasn't logged in at pop. Turns out he was, so now you'll automatically be forfeiting that kill and the next 2 per your own agreement. It's your problem why he never logged out, not mine. Have a nice day"

I would like to see a greater push for randomizing the outdoor dragon spawn points

it would lessen the need to play "IP exemption"-Quest as that is the current fear most my other officers have with these changes. We love the tracker only tracking and informing, but camping out the second tracker at a known location to instantly tag the dragon upon loading still is far from a classic experience.

I would love to see people 'hunting' for these mobs rather than log,tag,bag

if we garner enough support to get the dragons spawning in various places along their paths the IP exempt accounts and the people waiting at character select will have less of an impact.

I appreciate that we are having this conversation however, I think there are answers here somewhere.

I tend to agree with this: the SSD/ip exemption login race isn't great but at least its easy to enforce and better than jav spamming. Kudos to TMO for trying to improve things! Of course, let's be honest here: I would bet quite a bit of platinum that most of the people "spam clicking" for FTE (or Ragefire handins, for that matter) are actually using autofire programs or programmable keyboards. Daliant has shown us the way!

In an unrelated note, why do I still have access to this forum? Really should be argh, qelen, and wycca (Cobblestone) at this point.

Heh, I've actually been been pushing for a ceasefire on spam clicking for quite some time now. At least with IB and in VP to start, since in theory that would only take a simple 2 guild agreement atm.

Of course, convincing Hokushin/Getsome of a need for this has proven...difficult to say the least :)

if only u could see how many times ive tried to have Rogean update this forum for new guilds, dead guilds, and players switching around.

sadly, he just enjoys making me cry so that he can consume my tears and continue to grow ever stronger.

race to loggin at the spawn point will always be won by the guild that has all the extra toons with ip exemptions...in other words, TMO is suggesting a rule that gives them a greater advantage.

Why not everyone just agree not to use auto-firing macros to target/fte?