Project 1999 - Casinos

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- - Casinos (/forums/showthread.php?t=162263)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Orruar (Post 1583985)

Congress is not the only place where specific rules are placed so that there is no room for imagination and people know specifically what actions they are allowed to take. There are a million examples I could give from the real world, but how about one a little closer to home. When I launch the EQ Titanium client, the first thing I see is a EULA. This EULA is not overly vague. It is very specific about the rules regarding how you may use the software. I know you know these rules very well as you must stay within them to keep the server from being shut down due to violating this agreement. If they had written the EULA in an overly vague manner, P99 might not even exist. Or you might have put in a lot of work to create it and get it going, only to have it shut down because some new guy at SOE decided to interpret it differently. In fact, without specific rules, you would have not known how to structure the server in order to stay legal. And now you're handing down rules for your server that are so vague that nobody will know if they are breaking them or not. Do you see the disconnect here?

Your entire argument is that the rule is vague?

How is the rule vague?

Casino's / Gambling shops aren't allowed.

Are you really trying to rule lawyer this? If so that's pretty sad...

Wow. I want to work where you guys do so I can get drunk at lunch, too.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rogean (Post 1584133)

Your entire argument is that the rule is vague?

How is the rule vague?

Casino's / Gambling shops aren't allowed.

Are you really trying to rule lawyer this? If so that's pretty sad...

The rule says all gambling not just gambling shops.

from OP "any other form of gambling : Please use your best discretion when determining what constitutes "gambling"

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rogean (Post 1584133)

Your entire argument is that the rule is vague?

How is the rule vague?

Casino's / Gambling shops aren't allowed.

Are you really trying to rule lawyer this? If so that's pretty sad...

I asked for some specific scenarios earlier. I'm trying to get a feel for what we can do and what we can't. What if me and a friend want to play some dice games while waiting on PHs to spawn? Can we have a casino night in guild for fun? What if we then invite others to join in on the fun? You can see where this is leading. Deru wouldn't answer any questions about specific situations earlier and asked us to make the decision for ourselves, which seems like a terrible way to run things. I just want to know where that line is between legal fun and illegal gambling.

Sounds like you are trying to be as naive as you can so you can do shady rmt stuff. Your answers are in the very first post you are so upset about. And I am going to guess you will say /rand for loot off a npc from a group kill is considered gambling. He already responded to that one as well.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Orruar (Post 1584145)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Derubael (Post 1583263)

Due to numerous issues resulting from player run casinos and to reflect similar policies enacted on Live during classic, as well as other MMORPG's, we have decided to prohibit the operation, advertisement, or use of "casinos", including, but not limited to, dice rolls, card games, "guessing" games, and any other form of gambling. Please use your best discretion when determining what constitutes "gambling".

Quote:

Originally Posted by Derubael (Post 1583819)

That's not what is being outlined here. If you can't tell the difference between gambling at a 'casino' or playing a game of chance for potential profit with another player, and rolling on an item that dropped off an NPC, you are going to have a very hard time - and that has nothing to do with the casinos getting banned.

I know what you are doing, and you are welcome to do it, but I'd highly recommend not testing us on this. It's pretty simple cut and dry. Casinos are now gone.

So is "any other form of gambling" only limited to gambling shops/people calling themselves casinos or does that apply to every player on the server?

Have you ever played a card game with friends for money? Made Bets etc? If so, that's illegal. You're not going to have the police knocking down your door for it though.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shiftin (Post 1584126)

If investigations are easier, more plat is seized or RMT mules banned. The more inventory used for RMT is seized, the less profitable the business becomes, and the less people participate in it. At what point in that train of logic do you disagree?

I get the logic still don't think it's going to put a dent on how often it happens and sure might make it easier to track down, I don't see that as a valid reason to ban all casinos, but yea sucks, I'm upset - cool-, I think you would be too if your sole reason of playing was taken out. For me this is as big as taking out end game content. I mean the only reason anything has any value is the "lack of availability" of said items. So it's kind of paradoxical, if everything was easy to get what value would it have, but instead we have guilds who horde spawn timers, thus increasing the value of plat and x items, thus making plat or items worth money... why not make all end game instance based and a timer on each character instead of the mob.. wouldn't fix the problem entirely but would decrease RMT's.. but then you'd argue that that isn't how Classic EQ is, but if the problem is decreasing RMT's why not? I know you'll just laugh but that's how I view it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by zforrestal (Post 1584167)

I know you'll just laugh

nostradamus

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rogean (Post 1584165)

Have you ever played a card game with friends for money? Made Bets etc? If so, that's illegal. You're not going to have the police knocking down your door for it though.

Actually it's not illegal to gamble.. it's a misconception... there's 2 parts to this depending on where you are but, First it's illegal if someone is making a profit from hosting said game.. for example every pot the host takes out X amount of dollars to go towards "the house" which is what casinos do at a poker table and why they need a license to run a casino.. the second part is depending on which state.. if you win a over a certain amount from gambling.. in Connecticut it was anything $600 over a year I think, you had to claim the winnings on your taxes. So house games aren't illegal unless the host takes a percentage for personal gain and as long as no one is winning more than $600 and not claiming it. That's for Connecticut, or was when I was dealing at Foxwoods 6 years ago.