This thread from January 2003 on EQ Clerics has a pretty good discussion on DA mechanics spanning the time line. The last couple of pages get into a deep discussion on how hate lists are built, which may need to be addressed in a separate post. I've linked some of the quotes from it below near the bottom of this post.
November 22, 2000
http://www.eqclerics.org/forums/showthread.php?t=1803
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I usually only have DB up when I'm in a good group that is worth dieing for, otherwise gate is in it's place.
I have another question about these spells though. Has anyone noticed (at least DA) seems to temporarily drop you from the hate list?
I heal the puller on a big pull and taunt 4 or 5 of the mobs on to me. DA goes up and after a round the mobs go back to whoever is next highest on hate list. Unless those mobs get taunted, as soon as DA wears off or I cancel it, I get rushed by the mobs.
Just wondering if this is normal or I just suck
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Same thread
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Kaharz, my experience has been that DA will cause the mobs to beat on someone nearby if they have reason to. I have seen mobs try to hit me several times when I am DA'd if there is no one else nearby they are aggro'd on. And yes, once the invulnerability fades, they come back with a vengeance.
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Both spells reduce aggro of mobs tremendously. Get some space between you and the mob and it will not come back unless you are the last one alive. I am sure there are execptions to this of course.
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Kaharz it is an awesome detaunt if used properly. Number one thing you need to do is get out of melee range while DA is active. I call this 'training the tanks'. If you have an unwanted mob or two after you cast an early heal pop off DA then run right through the melee guys and continue out of range.
Note this will NOT work on most mobs if they are 'frenzied' at you. Most mobs frenzy when you hit 30% health, so if you are waiting until you are down to a bub of health to cast DA/DB you waited too long. You have probably seen this yourself when healing a caster near death and your warrior can't taunt the mob off. As soon as that heal hits the mob turns immediately back to the warrior because you brought the caster up over 30% health.
I use DA/DB routinely to detaunt mobs even if I have plenty of health. Saves a lot of frantic running about by tanks trying to draw mobs off the cleric and most don't realize it is a click-off buff. You don't have to wait 18 seconds to cast a spell, simply click the flashing icon once you have cleared the mobs and you are ready to start healing again. As long as I have 30% health and get out of melee range mobs rarely return to me.
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This one does not jive with the later fix to invulnerable NPC AI patch in June 2001. It also does not jive with the position of the OP.
November 28, 2000
http://www.eqclerics.org/forums/showthread.php?t=1803
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Divine Barrier comes up when we get a big nasty pull and I have to do an early heal. I'll heal tank to full, and go to the other side of the room with 3 or 4 in tow. Divine Barrier, and have a seat. With a little luck, the party will finish the first, and taunt one or two off of me before it drops. Divine barrier heals me a little, and its for situations where I *chose* to go invulnerable. Divine aura, with its fast casting time, is when I can't get the barrier off, or I really just need an "oh hell" escape.
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Threads from before the one linked in OP.
January 1, 2003
http://www.eqclerics.org/forums/show...ability&page=3
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It's important to realize that the reduction in aggro from DA/DB is only temporary... you regain that when the effect is taken off. Usually the tanks will be building up enough aggro to move you down the list, but if that's not happening, you will want to do what you can to reduce your own aggro (move further from mob, etc)
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Good points about the low-HP aggro issue...I used DA recently and took a few steps back. I quickly lost aggro from being invulnerable, so thought I could click it off and heal myself...but Nooo, the baddie made a B-line right at me and finished me off! Guess next time if I DA with low HPs I'll get out of aggro range before clicking it off.
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January 17, 2003
http://www.eqclerics.org/forums/show...nvulnerability
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When DA wears off, you go back to your normal place in the agro line... minus whatever agro you lose over time and others gain. if that puts you near teh top.. your dragon kibble.
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DA does not clear aggro, simply gives others time to build up their aggro. Remember before DA was tuned, how mobs would still often go after the DA'ed cleric? The tuning merely made mobs smarter, so they'd realize that attacking an invulnerable person was pointless if there's another person nearby.
Often it will only take a few seconds for the tank to regain a good hold on aggro, so that may make it seem like DA eliminates aggro, but it doesn't. I've had it happen where if I click off DA too soon on raids, that the mob would come right back onto me, even without low health aggro.
Case in point: A monk was coming back with a mob to the raid. I threw a heal on him WAY too early, and I knew it, so I DB'ed immediately after healing him, being at full health still. About 7-10 seconds later, with the mob at the raid, being tanked, I took off DB and got promptly beaten to a pulp.
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DA/DB has never cleared aggro. All it does is make it seem that you're out of melee range, which is why the mob will usually turn away and start whacking on something else. Of course, if you're still in melee range and your tanks haven't taken over the top spot on the hate list, the mobs run right back to you when DA/DB wears off.
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How DA works ...
It makes you invulnerable
All mobs drop invulverable targets to the bottom of their hate list (they used not to hence the old days of a da sitting cleric being MT :P .
Soon as you are no longer invulnerable you appear in exactly the same spot in the hate list you were in.
Hopefully after 18 seconds the tanks have built up enough tuant that it forgets you... unless you went da under 30% in which case soon as da is off the mob is going to go after you becuase 1. you are on the hate list and 2. you are below 30% (bam you on top of the hate list)
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what verant did was simply change the mob ai to ignore you while DA . nothing more . DA was not changed as a spell in any way . this had the effect of sending the mobs right back at the next highest person on the hate list , preferably the tank , and allowed them time to build aggro while you were invulnerable . when DA dropped some 18 seconds later hopefully someone else was high enough on the hate list that they wouldnt come back after you . so while the spell itself has no inherent hate reduction associated with it , it gives others the time to build hate , in effect placing you lower on the hate list . this is why so many people think da is an aggro reduction spell , when in fact it simply gives others time to build hate above your own .
so on the face of it it would seem we are arguing semantics but we are not .
if da worked as a total aggro reduction spell that many people beleive it is then we wouldnt have these threads pop up so often about da not CLEARING aggro . it is important to understand exactly how a spell functions to get the maximum benefit out of it . if the spell worked as you believed it would work in all situations all the time , and as you admit it doesnt . saying sometimes one mob or maybe two will come back at you proves that the spell doesnt work as you think it does .
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