[bellhop]

Originally Posted by Tigerstyle Wutangfist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Damage bonus is calculable based on delay and is applies as a flat increase in damage

At player level 60
Weighted Axe = 110 (bis large war/sk)
Gromlok's Basher = 66 (bis non-large war/sk)
Earthshaker = 56 (bis pal/rng)
OT Hammer = 42 (rog)

This is the crux of the issue.

Where throwing weapons right now still have a chance to hit for 1 point of damage, the damage bonus on your main hand weapon is making it so that your lowest possible hit with an arrow IS THE DAMAGE BONUS + whatever calculation is happening beyond that to give you what you're actually hitting for.

Originally Posted by Twainz [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Why am I able to do this much damage this fast on a Troll Warrior with a Weighted Axe. I'm legit a machine gun fighting kids with knives.

[Mon Dec 21 23:16:20 2020] You hit Gstring for 111 points of damage.
[Mon Dec 21 23:16:43 2020] You hit Gstring for 111 points of damage.

As you can see in Twainz' original post, his lowest hit is the damage bonus of his weighted axe + 1 point of damage.

Within the larger context of a log file from Twainz, he's shooting arrows with a Weighted Axe, and because he's got OTHER HITS on, you're seeing bow damage from Faceoff (Troll SK with Weighted Axe) shooting arrows as well:

Originally Posted by Twainz [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[Sat Feb 13 14:42:17 2021] LOADING, PLEASE WAIT...
[Sat Feb 13 14:42:28 2021] You have entered The Overthere.
[Sat Feb 13 14:42:38 2021] Vhanilla invites you to join a group.
[Sat Feb 13 14:42:38 2021] To join the group, click on the 'FOLLOW' option, or 'DISBAND' to cancel.
[Sat Feb 13 14:42:43 2021] Bogey tries to hit YOU, but misses!
[Sat Feb 13 14:42:43 2021] You notify Vhanilla that you agree to join the group.
[Sat Feb 13 14:42:44 2021] You have joined the group.
[Sat Feb 13 14:42:44 2021] Your target is too close to use a ranged weapon!!
[Sat Feb 13 14:42:45 2021] Melodie lets loose a piercing blast.
[Sat Feb 13 14:42:45 2021] Baugi begins to cast a spell.
[Sat Feb 13 14:42:46 2021] Bogey hits Vhanilla for 111 points of damage.
[Sat Feb 13 14:42:46 2021] You hit Baugi for 187 points of damage.
[Sat Feb 13 14:42:47 2021] Your feet move faster.
[Sat Feb 13 14:42:48 2021] Bogey tries to hit Vhanilla, but misses!
[Sat Feb 13 14:42:48 2021] Vhanilla reels in pain and loses concentration.
[Sat Feb 13 14:42:48 2021] You hit Baugi for 111 points of damage.
[Sat Feb 13 14:42:49 2021] Bogey tries to hit Vhanilla, but misses!
[Sat Feb 13 14:42:50 2021] You try to hit Baugi, but miss!
[Sat Feb 13 14:42:51 2021] Bogey tries to hit Vhanilla, but misses!
[Sat Feb 13 14:42:51 2021] Baugi regains concentration and continues casting.
[Sat Feb 13 14:42:51 2021] Your skin erupts in purulent pock marks. You have taken 60 points of damage.
[Sat Feb 13 14:42:52 2021] Vhanilla's image shimmers.
[Sat Feb 13 14:42:52 2021] You hit Baugi for 130 points of damage.
[Sat Feb 13 14:42:54 2021] You hit Baugi for 200 points of damage.
[Sat Feb 13 14:42:55 2021] You hit Baugi for 149 points of damage.
[Sat Feb 13 14:42:56 2021] Faceoff hits Baugi for 111 points of damage.
[Sat Feb 13 14:42:57 2021] Thunderdorne Scores a critical hit!(37)
[Sat Feb 13 14:42:57 2021] You hit Baugi for 147 points of damage.
[Sat Feb 13 14:42:58 2021] You hit Baugi for 156 points of damage.
[Sat Feb 13 14:42:59 2021] Baugi begins to cast a spell.
[Sat Feb 13 14:43:00 2021] You hit Baugi for 143 points of damage.
[Sat Feb 13 14:43:01 2021] Faceoff tries to hit Baugi, but misses!
[Sat Feb 13 14:43:02 2021] You hit Baugi for 111 points of damage.
[Sat Feb 13 14:43:02 2021] Baugi regains concentration and continues casting.
[Sat Feb 13 14:43:03 2021] You hit Faceoff for 129 points of damage.
[Sat Feb 13 14:43:06 2021] You slow down.
[Sat Feb 13 14:43:07 2021] Baugi begins to cast a spell.
[Sat Feb 13 14:43:08 2021] Faceoff hits Baugi for 111 points of damage.
[Sat Feb 13 14:43:08 2021] You hit Baugi for 123 points of damage.
[Sat Feb 13 14:43:08 2021] Your target is too close to use a ranged weapon!!
[Sat Feb 13 14:43:10 2021] Auto attack on.
[Sat Feb 13 14:43:10 2021] You slash Baugi for 143 points of damage.
[Sat Feb 13 14:43:10 2021] YOU are tormented!
[Sat Feb 13 14:43:10 2021] You slash Baugi for 278 points of damage.
[Sat Feb 13 14:43:10 2021] YOU are tormented!
[Sat Feb 13 14:43:10 2021] Baugi's casting is interrupted!
[Sat Feb 13 14:43:11 2021] Baugi begins to cast a spell.
[Sat Feb 13 14:43:11 2021] Faceoff was tormented.
[Sat Feb 13 14:43:11 2021] Faceoff slashes Baugi for 126 points of damage.
[Sat Feb 13 14:43:11 2021] Faceoff was tormented.
[Sat Feb 13 14:43:11 2021] Faceoff slashes Baugi for 190 points of damage.
[Sat Feb 13 14:43:11 2021] Baugi has been slain by Faceoff!
[Sat Feb 13 14:43:11 2021] Baugi's casting is interrupted!
[Sat Feb 13 14:43:11 2021] [PvP] Baugi <Perdition> has been defeated by Faceoff <Apex> in The Overthere!
[Sat Feb 13 14:43:16 2021] Your target is too close to use a ranged weapon!!
[Sat Feb 13 14:43:17 2021] Vhanilla is bound by strands of solid music.
[Sat Feb 13 14:43:17 2021] Melodie lets loose a piercing blast.
[Sat Feb 13 14:43:19 2021] You hit Melodie for 138 points of damage.
[Sat Feb 13 14:43:30 2021] You hit Melodie for 115 points of damage.
[Sat Feb 13 14:43:32 2021] You hit Melodie for 130 points of damage.
[Sat Feb 13 14:43:33 2021] You try to hit Melodie, but miss!
[Sat Feb 13 14:43:35 2021] You hit Melodie for 142 points of damage.
[Sat Feb 13 14:43:37 2021] You hit Melodie for 135 points of damage.
[Sat Feb 13 14:43:38 2021] Melodie lets loose a piercing blast.
[Sat Feb 13 14:43:38 2021] You hit Melodie for 115 points of damage.
[Sat Feb 13 14:43:40 2021] You hit Melodie for 139 points of damage.
[Sat Feb 13 14:43:41 2021] Melodie's song ends abruptly.
[Sat Feb 13 14:43:42 2021] You hit Melodie for 192 points of damage.
[Sat Feb 13 14:43:51 2021] Your feet move faster.
[Sat Feb 13 14:43:53 2021] You hit Jimbobbie for 133 points of damage.
[Sat Feb 13 14:43:55 2021] You hit Melodie for 128 points of damage.
[Sat Feb 13 14:43:57 2021] You hit Melodie for 187 points of damage.
[Sat Feb 13 14:43:59 2021] You try to hit Melodie, but miss!
[Sat Feb 13 14:44:02 2021] You hit Melodie for 114 points of damage.
[Sat Feb 13 14:44:03 2021] You assume a precise fighting style.
[Sat Feb 13 14:44:04 2021] You hit Melodie for 111 points of damage.
[Sat Feb 13 14:44:05 2021] You hit Melodie for 174 points of damage.
[Sat Feb 13 14:44:06 2021] Faceoff tries to hit YOU, but misses!
[Sat Feb 13 14:44:06 2021] You slow down.
[Sat Feb 13 14:44:06 2021] You hit Melodie for 111 points of damage.
[Sat Feb 13 14:44:09 2021] Faceoff tries to hit YOU, but misses!
[Sat Feb 13 14:44:09 2021] You hit Melodie for 131 points of damage.
[Sat Feb 13 14:44:09 2021] You have slain Melodie!
[Sat Feb 13 14:44:09 2021] [PvP] Melodie <> has been defeated by Thunderdorne <Apex> in The Overthere!
[Sat Feb 13 14:44:13 2021] You try to hit Bogey, but miss!
[Sat Feb 13 14:44:14 2021] You receive 4 silver and 2 copper from the corpse.
[Sat Feb 13 14:44:26 2021] The grim aura fades.
[Sat Feb 13 14:44:26 2021] A dull aura covers your hand.
[Sat Feb 13 14:44:26 2021] The maelstrom fades away.
[Sat Feb 13 14:44:26 2021] You are enveloped in a swirling maelstrom.
[Sat Feb 13 14:44:26 2021] The brambles fall away.
[Sat Feb 13 14:44:26 2021] You are surrounded by a thorny barrier.
[Sat Feb 13 14:44:30 2021] You hit Bogey for 151 points of damage.
[Sat Feb 13 14:44:31 2021] You hit Bogey for 145 points of damage.
[Sat Feb 13 14:44:33 2021] You hit Bogey for 149 points of damage.
[Sat Feb 13 14:44:35 2021] You hit Bogey for 160 points of damage.
[Sat Feb 13 14:44:36 2021] You hit Bogey for 147 points of damage.
[Sat Feb 13 14:44:37 2021] You hit Bogey for 144 points of damage.
[Sat Feb 13 14:44:39 2021] You hit Bogey for 117 points of damage.
[Sat Feb 13 14:44:41 2021] You hit Bogey for 111 points of damage.
[Sat Feb 13 14:44:41 2021] The pox has run its course.
[Sat Feb 13 14:44:43 2021] You hit Bogey for 148 points of damage.
[Sat Feb 13 14:44:44 2021] You hit Bogey for 202 points of damage.
[Sat Feb 13 14:44:46 2021] You hit Bogey for 153 points of damage.
[Sat Feb 13 14:44:47 2021] You hit Bogey for 161 points of damage.
[Sat Feb 13 14:44:48 2021] Faceoff hits Bogey for 111 points of damage.
[Sat Feb 13 14:44:49 2021] You hit Bogey for 160 points of damage.
[Sat Feb 13 14:44:50 2021] You hit Bogey for 151 points of damage.
[Sat Feb 13 14:44:52 2021] You hit Bogey for 111 points of damage.
[Sat Feb 13 14:44:53 2021] You hit Bogey for 184 points of damage.
[Sat Feb 13 14:44:55 2021] You hit Bogey for 121 points of damage.
[Sat Feb 13 14:44:55 2021] Faceoff tries to hit Bogey, but misses!
[Sat Feb 13 14:44:56 2021] Faceoff tries to hit Bogey, but misses!
[Sat Feb 13 14:44:56 2021] You try to hit Bogey, but miss!
[Sat Feb 13 14:44:57 2021] Bogey writhes in the grip of agony.
[Sat Feb 13 14:44:57 2021] Bogey has been slain by Bogey!
[Sat Feb 13 14:44:57 2021] Bogey's casting is interrupted!

You can see that both characters' absolute lowest possible damage with arrows is ALWAYS 111 points of damage.

Where most every weapon or special skill in the game has it's own minimum damage coded in (flying kick, backstabs, kicks, throwing weapons, etc etc), arrows are using the damage bonuses of the slowest weapons available to give you the minimum damage you'll do, and then it starts calculating AC and everything else after that.

In general, someone with 1600 AC would take very little damage from ANY melee damage across the board, but with arrows how they are, it's creating an environment now where everyone is building up armies of TROLL, OGRE, or BARBARIAN bow users, because the weighted axe provides gargantuan minimum hit benefits.

The way people use gear and build characters on Red99 now is mostly by building up the maximum amount of hit points, with no regard for resists or any other alternative criteria. Casters of any kind are only situationally useful, because they have far less hit points than large races and they can't do anything to bow users at 300-350 range.

Another log from this thread (Ogre SK with Weighted Axe):

Originally Posted by Tune [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[Fri Oct 22 17:57:16 2021] You try to hit Papercuts, but miss!
[Fri Oct 22 17:57:17 2021] You hit Papercuts for 117 points of damage.
[Fri Oct 22 17:57:19 2021] You hit Papercuts for 114 points of damage.
[Fri Oct 22 17:57:20 2021] You try to hit Papercuts, but miss!
[Fri Oct 22 17:57:21 2021] You try to hit Papercuts, but miss!
[Fri Oct 22 17:57:22 2021] You try to hit Papercuts, but miss!
[Fri Oct 22 17:57:23 2021] You try to hit Papercuts, but miss!
[Fri Oct 22 17:57:24 2021] You hit Papercuts for 111 points of damage.
[Fri Oct 22 17:57:25 2021] You try to hit Papercuts, but miss!
[Fri Oct 22 17:57:26 2021] You try to hit Papercuts, but miss!
[Fri Oct 22 17:57:27 2021] You try to hit Papercuts, but miss!
[Fri Oct 22 17:57:29 2021] You try to hit Papercuts, but miss!
[Fri Oct 22 17:57:30 2021] You hit Papercuts for 124 points of damage.

sk bow vs a rog

Again, not many hits to go off of here, but the minimum is 111.

Rogues in many different contexts use the OT hammer and don't bother with normal melee, backstabbing, or using any other type of tactical ingenuity to kill people.

The strong vocal outcry is because there's a bastardization effect happening on the normal modes of PvP, and it's making the majority of classes AND races broadly ineffective. Even the very well geared casters can't compete against a "Walmart" Ogre, Troll, or Barbarian SK or warrior.