EQ Next: Best of show at E3!

[Gadwen]

Originally Posted by Kope [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I agree that the MOBA thing is all about the new champs being released, which is why I said they couldn't just cut + paste it in, but the skins are the real piece of work here.



That's the thing though, Skins aren't anything but cosmetic. There are regular skins and then the Epic skins (or whatever they're called now). They don't add any power to the champs, they're purely aesthetical which is the entire reason I point to LoL as a good way to implement micro transactions.

Like I said before you can't just copy + paste what LoL does in an MMO, it just straight up won't work for anyone. What LoL does is allow people to purchase something with RL currency that they can easily purchase from just playing the game and building the in-game currency. Even when they purchase said item/champion it doesn't add power, it just unlocks an option (that even the champions are rotated free each week anyway).

The true trick of micro transactions is not allowing people to purchase power, but to purchase aesthetics and ease of play that they could have gotten in game, just with a little more elbow grease. People who buy LoL stuff know they don't HAVE to, to participate but do it for the ease and the option. This is where the win/win comes into play. The company can make money and the person knows exactly what they're getting and knows they don't have to buy it unless they really want to.

This is also where the sub comes in, LoL doesn't have subs. With MMOs and a proper micro transaction system in place you wouldn't need subs, but there will always be new expansions, and that's the MMO equivalent of new champions.

I know skins in LoL are purely cosmetic, but capes for example in EQ2 are not, even tho they pass off a lot of stuff as cosmetic, they do something else for your character as well.

Also, I don't know of any MMORPGs that have gone F2P that give you full character slots, have access to all items, or for many of them even use simple features like an auction house without subbing.

Just log into EQ2, expect the same and more in the next EQ.

[Kope]

Originally Posted by Gadwen [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I know skins in LoL are purely cosmetic, but capes for example in EQ2 are not, even tho they pass off a lot of stuff as cosmetic, they do something else for your character as well.

Also, I don't know of any MMORPGs that have gone F2P that give you full character slots, have access to all items, or for many of them even use simple features like an auction house with subbing.

Just log into EQ2, expect the same and more in the next EQ.

Giving you your full quote but going to talk about this:

Originally Posted by Gadwen [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Also, I don't know of any MMORPGs that have gone F2P that give you full character slots, have access to all items, or for many of them even use simple features like an auction house with subbing.

What I was actually thinking about is something I saw on EQ1 when I went back for a month to play it to see how it was. They have items that drop that change the aesthetic of that piece of armor to look a certain way (I think that's how it worked anyway, I never actually used them).

What you could do is allow people to buy a piece of armor from the shop with RL money and attach that to the piece of equipment you want the visuals to change for. It would be purely aesthetical and the people would have to purchase it again if they wanted to look the same way when they got a new piece of gear in the slot they had already purchased the aesthetic change for.

[t0lkien]

Originally Posted by stormlord [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Wurm Online is the spiritual successor to UO: Second Age and classic Everquest 1.

I don't see how you can say Wurm Online is anything like EQ or UO. It's a sophisticated Minecraftesque world builder, not an RPG. It's a completely different genre IMO. It's like people who pimp Fantasy Star as some sort of EQ successor. They are so fundamentally different it's almost absurd to compare them.

[t0lkien]

Originally Posted by Kope [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Giving you your full quote but going to talk about this:



What I was actually thinking about is something I saw on EQ1 when I went back for a month to play it to see how it was. They have items that drop that change the aesthetic of that piece of armor to look a certain way (I think that's how it worked anyway, I never actually used them).

What you could do is allow people to buy a piece of armor from the shop with RL money and attach that to the piece of equipment you want the visuals to change for. It would be purely aesthetical and the people would have to purchase it again if they wanted to look the same way when they got a new piece of gear in the slot they had already purchased the aesthetic change for.

This is a perfect example of the negative effect of F2P and ingame purchases. It seems harmless right? The problem is that carefully designed piece of high end armor that someone spent months getting now is not unique looking. So you can no longer gauge the power or value of something from the way it looks, and you lose the value of the effort it took to get there, so you just undermined your entire game. Colours and detail - basic visual rewards - now mean nothing. This is game breaking, as it breaks the implied visual contract that undergirds all games. Now this contract can be broken, but the point is the breaks are exceptions and being exceptions gives them value (for example, a really weak looking item that is in fact potent, like the Mossy Twig). You can't have an exception unless you have a clear status quo.

Apart from that, it makes your world ugly. Everyone is running around in horrid colours (or all black, which is inevitably the most popular), and that talented, expensive Art Director just had his/her meticulous, carefully chosen colour palette and colour tagging made completely redundant. Colour is a language as powerful and subtle and expressive as any other, and by allowing everyone to mess with it you just made that language useless. It's now noise.

I'm telling you, F2P ingame purchasing violates games. You can't make it alright, no matter your careful justifications. In the end it's about money pure and simple, and nothing to do with fun, authenticity, or making games better.

[stormlord]

Originally Posted by t0lkien [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I don't see how you can say Wurm Online is anything like EQ or UO. It's a sophisticated Minecraftesque world builder, not an RPG. It's a completely different genre IMO. It's like people who pimp Fantasy Star as some sort of EQ successor. They are so fundamentally different it's almost absurd to compare them.

No it's not. You're thinking too strictly and not seeing the forest.

Wurm Online versus classic EQ1:
1) No in-game map
2) Corpse runs
3) Trains and tight aggro
4) Autoattack
5) Less hand holding
6) Night-time (you can turn up gamma, but it's still washed out)
7) Lose skill experience when you die (similar to losing level experience)

Wurm Online versus Ultima Online: Second Age:
1) Skill-based (not class-based)
2) Sandbox; cutting trees; making campfires; building houses; primitive ecology(!); nuff said!
3) No rules pvp on epic servers and semi-restricted pvp on Chaos
4) Boats; UO was famous for its implementation of boats

Wurm Online even has some basic quests. It steers away from the casual idea that everything has to have a symbol floating above it or a exclamation mark so you don't (by chance) miss it. So I may see a corpse in the distance while swimming and miss it because it's so small. And yet if I see it and then swim to it I might discover a treasure trove of old rotting gear that I'll be able to repair and take home with me. (This actually happened to me several times. Most of the time corpses only have 'less' valuable stuff left behind by the owner.)

I'll admit that Wurm Online doesn't have the deep lore and npc population that Everquest 1 had. It doesn't have nearly as many quests as Everquest 1 had. Almost all of its weapons/armour are player-made. Its dungeons are player-made (and yes creatures can be inside them; in fact, 'dungeons' are actually old mines).

Wurm Online doesn't have the recall/mark spells that were used in Ultima Online to travel across the map. It doesn't have the treasure chest quest maps, but it certainly has old corpses and items leftover from bygone era's that're LIKE treasure. There're official map dumps that show the whole world. So you can actually hunt down areas that look built up on the map and explore them for old treasure. It doesn't have the mini-map. Creatures don't "talk". There're no wandering healers. Dragons were a lot more common in Ultima Online.

Wurm Online does have hte ability to spawn at your (deeded) settlement if you die. And you may also spawn at any allied settlement on the map. But this teleportation only allows no-drop items to carry-over.

Wurm Online is less combat-focused than EQ1 or Ultima Online too. HOWEVER, there's still lots of combat and if you seek it you shall find it. Oftentimes, it finds you. Early on, you're much more defensive-minded. But as players get better they can hunt more. And on pvp servers there're sieging mechanics as well.

But you know what? These differences are minor to me. Wurm Online is a more advanced sandbox than Ultima Online: Second Age. That, combined with some of the mechanics you found in classic Everquest 1, makes it feel very much to me like a spiritual heir to them. It feels more like them than it does Minecraft.

I played Ultima Online and EQ1 for several years off and on. I know how they feel. I'm referring more to how they play than anything else. Minecraft is too soft without the hard edges. EQ2 doesn't have a sandbox and is also too soft. Vanguard-soh is too streamlined and wasn't developed in the sandbox direction. I wanted so much to see Vanguard-soh be THAT game, but it never came to be and instead became too cautious. There's a long list of MMO's that're somewhat similar to Wurm Online but they do not share similarities with classic EQ1 or old-style UO. Most MMO's out there have abandoned the tight aggro and corpse runs and no in-game maps and free-for-all pvp and various other mechanics associated with old EQ1 and/or old UO.

I expect Wurm Online to degenerate as it ages. It has been around since 2006 and you can see all of the things it has axed as it has aged. Despite all that, for now it has been amazing. My contention is that we will see games like this pop up now and then for eternity. It's just the way things are. I don't necessarily mean they have to have corpse runs for eternity, I mean they're dangerous and not friendly to players. Obviously, the normal is to treat players like they're royalty. This is especially true if a company feels desperate or greedy; like most do. So it's very hard to find a game like this where it's not ocd about being friendly.