A Shady Goblin (Ring Roll) in Warsilk Woods - Page 24

Dogma · #**231** 02-20-2019, 02:16 PM

Would have to keep a running forum post of the updated roll times. It advances forward a couple hours every day.

If rolled at start of window I can see that being fair but it's hard to keep people advised of that changing window. It's not like 8 ring or Scout.

kotton05 · #**232** 02-20-2019, 02:25 PM

When it spawns I’m one shotting it then logging it out. Idk bout you but I needed faction.

loramin · #**233** 02-20-2019, 03:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wonkie [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

i agree, good things simply aren't possible.

No, but good complex things that twenty or so rotating humans all have to agree to, when all twenty of those humans have a strong incentive to break the system if it gives them an advantage, aren't possible ... or at the very least are incredibly difficult and unlikely.

This isn't (just) some philosophical claim on the nature of Man (with a capital M) ... this is the reality/legacy of numerous failed player agreements here. Even just on this one case of Shady, in under a month, we've seen a couple of failed attempts to complicate the system. I'm not saying they were bad proposals (well the "let's go back to a clickfest some of the time" idea was bad), but good or bad doesn't enter in to it if you don't first consider what people will/won't agree to.

Senescant · #**234** 02-20-2019, 03:30 PM

We've seen 2-3 people on the forums push things down. I'll try ingame tonight when we have a better grasp of how more people feels about it.

Senescant · #**235** 02-20-2019, 03:32 PM

Also grats Kelz on your SWC! Guess we won't see you at shady today. MQ confirmed working.

loramin · #**236** 02-20-2019, 03:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Senescant [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

We've seen 2-3 people on the forums push things down. I'll try ingame tonight when we have a better grasp of how more people feels about it.

You tried pushing the clickfest idea in-game (hard), and it still failed. You are not Shady Goblin Jesus. You are not the person responsible for trying to make everything Shady Goblin-related perfect.

We established a good, fair, and simple system. You were a big part of it. Congrats.

Now sit back on your laurels and wait for Shady like everyone else. Stop trying to think you can magically convince twenty rotating people to all agree to to whatever latest harebrained scheme you've come up with that you haven't even taken the time to work the flaws out of.

It's like you've completely ignored/forgotten everything that ever happened before. Scout didn't just happen. People spent countless forum posts arguing over how the roll should work. The very idea of it, and exactly how it should work, was "battle-tested" there. Then it was further tested in months of in-game arguments. It was only after all that that everyone finally agreed to the roll.

The only reason Shady went so much smoother was because we had the example of Scout, and because the roll was all but identical to the Scout roll (just with added variance). When you keep trying to push other schemes you're not doing any of that, yet you keep pushing and failing.

Senescant · #**237** 02-20-2019, 03:37 PM

I pushed for the sake of those that had QQ'd to me for days about it, they wouldn't speak up, so I gave it up.

Calling a system where two dozen people sit around for 3 hours good is idiotic, but being that you spend that time boasting about your drug use I guess you make good use of that time.

I've been putting out ideas that others have supported to try and make this better. I don't need to convince everyone, if we have a majority group that wants to pre-roll then that is what we'll do. I don't care if that's not what you want Loramin. I'm willing to see if that's what the majority of people want.

loramin · #**238** 02-20-2019, 03:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Senescant [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Calling a system where two dozen people sit around for 3 hours good is idiotic

It's a million times better than a clickfest, but you're completely forgetting that and letting the perfect be the enemy of the good.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Senescant [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I don't need to convince everyone, if we have a majority group that wants to pre-roll then that is what we'll do.

Actually you do. That's how agreements work here: it's not a democracy. If five people want to click and twenty-five want to roll, it doesn't matter: the staff will not punish those people for clicking (and again, all you have to do is look at Scout for proof).

Quote:

Originally Posted by Senescant [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

being that you spend that time boasting about your drug use I guess you make good use of that time
...
I don't care if that's not what you want Loramin. I'm willing to see if that's what the majority of people want.

Annnd here come the personal attacks. Look, waiting for a roll is long and boring, so I decided to try acid once. I mentioned I was on acid maybe three times ever in-game, and afterwards I even admitted it was a bad idea (plus my wife got mad at me when I couldn't read anymore because of the acid and I kept making her come read the chat box to see if people had rolled yet). But one bad idea on one day of rolling hardly invalidates the points I'm making.

And don't lie: you don't care about about what people want: if you did you'd be trying to fix the problems in your hare-brained scheme instead of arguing with the people (people who aren't me) who point them out.

Oh, and also, you're a terrible reader. I've said multiple times I'd prefer a system where I don't have to wait. But, as you keep failing to understand, regardless of you, and regardless me, that system will not happen.

EDIT: Honestly dude, go read the scout thread. Right now. I'm serious. If you don't, it's the height of arrogance: you have a template of almost this exact situation, with tons of players chiming in with FAR more opinions than in this thread, and with staff getting involved, and you're completely ignoring it in the belief that you know better about everything.

Senescant · #**239** 02-20-2019, 03:39 PM

The current system isn't good. People put up with it because you sit and shame them into it for 3 hours a day. I don't think the current system is much better than a clickfest at all due to the variance.

Senescant · #**240** 02-20-2019, 03:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Actually you do. That's how agreements work here: it's not a democracy. If five people want to click and twenty-five want to roll, it doesn't matter: the staff will not punish those people for clicking (and again, all you have to do is look at Scout for proof).

If it's not a democracy then why would the opinions of the 25 outweigh the 5? If 15 people want to pre-roll and 10 people don't, why wouldn't we pre-roll? Because you said so?

Not everyone agree'd that rolling was the way to go, but they rolled because the majority wanted to roll.

Until staff comes out and says "here's the way we want to see it done" changes can be made if people want them.

This isn't the same as scout due to the variance, it doesn't need to be handled in the exact same way if people want to do things differently. If people want to poopsock and roll then sure, but just because 2 people here say "oh its a bad idea because of reasons x/y/z" doesn't mean other people aren't entitled to their opinions on the matter.