Spells: Resist issue since patch thread

[Potus]

Originally Posted by Haynar [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Seb was hard at 60.

Apparently fighting green mobs at 60 is hard too, now?

Originally Posted by Nirgon [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Oh? Mez could never break early?

K

I remember screaming terror lasting various durations on mobs (usually very short) from necros.

No it had a fixed duration, you could time it perfectly and keep 2 mobs mezzed barring a resist. Never broke off early.

Also ST originally was a fear with mem wipe. It caused trains. Big time. They changed it to ghetto mez.

[Scrubosaur]

Originally Posted by Haynar [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Seb was hard at 60.

Seb was NOT hard as a 60 necromancer. In fact, on P99 it is/was much more difficult for a necro due to pets being nerfed to crap (they used to be awesome back in the day). On live I could solo my way to the jail and solo the entire jail with EoT and roots. A lot less mobs saw invis in Seb than on P99 and resist rates worked a lot better if a mob was more than 5 levels below you.

With the new patch I am not saying that everything should land without resist if that mob is with in a few levels of the caster. But if you are significantly higher level than the mob you are casting on (5 level rule) the resist rate / break rate should be minimal. This should also be the case for npc caster mobs landing spells on players. If they are more than 5 levels below you there should be some adjustment to damage via partials or flat out resists. We already have to deal with NPC's having full spells books up to their level (on live npc's had 1 rank lower spells e.g. a 45 wizard npc had spells up to level 39).

[Nirgon]

Ya I readily concede the mez thing.

Upon consulting close pals from the era, it was that mez just didn't always land (does here) and the good ones had a longer recast.

I was asked also if tash has a rather high threat value here, because it did. Most times they said they'd try to mez then tash on raids. Sounds odd but worth mentioning since it came up in convo [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.].

[Tecmos Deception]

With 255 charisma and level 60, mez would (prepatch, dunno about now) literally never be resisted by anything below 50 (maybe even 50s also... can't remember for sure). 51s will resist pretty rarely, 52-53s occassionally, and once you're doing 54-55s you'll see 1 in 3 mezzes resist without MR debuff (and MR spells like roots/stuns will resist 1 in 3 even after a tash). Ballpark gut figures. Mez on p99 either has a resist mod built in or charisma helps to lower resists of mez spells or something.

Tash is high aggro here, though I don't think any/much higher than a slow or a cessation of cor or a lure of ice. I don't think I've ever seen any enchanter tash before mez in any situation on p99 (unless, like, you're able to tash at longer range then land a mez before you get nuked/meleed). At 60 if you have a nasty target, you rapture then tash+malo+slow then kill or transition to cheaper mezzes if possible, or just keep rapturing (or let the sham tank or whatever).


It's funny that you call the higher-level mezzes "the good ones." I never even mem mezzes except mesmerize, mesmerization, and occasionally rapture. There's nothing good about them, really. Unless you're a solo chanter trying to lock down half a dozen mobs that are spread out across a wide area (isle 5, for example ... though even there unless you're the only chanter and it's a small raid with a mediocre or worse puller, you STILL don't need to use longer single-target mezzes!), you're using a mez that casts slower, recasts slower, and costs the same mana per tick of mez as just using a lower mez, and takes up a spell slot that could be used for something more vital to avoiding death when stuff goes wrong.

[koros]

Originally Posted by Potus [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Apparently fighting green mobs at 60 is hard too, now?



No it had a fixed duration, you could time it perfectly and keep 2 mobs mezzed barring a resist. Never broke off early.

Also ST originally was a fear with mem wipe. It caused trains. Big time. They changed it to ghetto mez.

Exactly this.

[koros]

Originally Posted by Tecmos Deception [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

With 255 charisma and level 60, mez would (prepatch, dunno about now) literally never be resisted by anything below 50 (maybe even 50s also... can't remember for sure). 51s will resist pretty rarely, 52-53s occassionally, and once you're doing 54-55s you'll see 1 in 3 mezzes resist without MR debuff (and MR spells like roots/stuns will resist 1 in 3 even after a tash). Ballpark gut figures. Mez on p99 either has a resist mod built in or charisma helps to lower resists of mez spells or something.

Tash is high aggro here, though I don't think any/much higher than a slow or a cessation of cor or a lure of ice. I don't think I've ever seen any enchanter tash before mez in any situation on p99 (unless, like, you're able to tash at longer range then land a mez before you get nuked/meleed). At 60 if you have a nasty target, you rapture then tash+malo+slow then kill or transition to cheaper mezzes if possible, or just keep rapturing (or let the sham tank or whatever).


It's funny that you call the higher-level mezzes "the good ones." I never even mem mezzes except mesmerize, mesmerization, and occasionally rapture. There's nothing good about them, really. Unless you're a solo chanter trying to lock down half a dozen mobs that are spread out across a wide area (isle 5, for example ... though even there unless you're the only chanter and it's a small raid with a mediocre or worse puller, you STILL don't need to use longer single-target mezzes!), you're using a mez that casts slower, recasts slower, and costs the same mana per tick of mez as just using a lower mez, and takes up a spell slot that could be used for something more vital to avoiding death when stuff goes wrong.

Mezzes land(ed) too easily here. You shouldn't be getting many resists at 60 vs 51s/52s, but a level 54 enc should see a semi decent resist rate vs a 52/53. It's part of what made the higher duration mezzes worth it if you had to lock down 3 mobs. Too many resists when using a 24 second mez.

[koros]

Originally Posted by Scrubosaur [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Seb was NOT hard as a 60 necromancer. In fact, on P99 it is/was much more difficult for a necro due to pets being nerfed to crap (they used to be awesome back in the day). On live I could solo my way to the jail and solo the entire jail with EoT and roots. A lot less mobs saw invis in Seb than on P99 and resist rates worked a lot better if a mob was more than 5 levels below you.

With the new patch I am not saying that everything should land without resist if that mob is with in a few levels of the caster. But if you are significantly higher level than the mob you are casting on (5 level rule) the resist rate / break rate should be minimal. This should also be the case for npc caster mobs landing spells on players. If they are more than 5 levels below you there should be some adjustment to damage via partials or flat out resists. We already have to deal with NPC's having full spells books up to their level (on live npc's had 1 rank lower spells e.g. a 45 wizard npc had spells up to level 39).

EoT sucked on live too. If you were soloing to jail you were doing it with mostly dots. Pet would take a lot of damage from high 40s mobs. But Seb was not hard at 60. Hell, I could solo there as a 60 rogue during Luclin.

[Tecmos Deception]

Originally Posted by koros [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Mezzes land(ed) too easily here. You shouldn't be getting many resists at 60 vs 51s/52s, but a level 54 enc should see a semi decent resist rate vs a 52/53.

When was the last time anyone who is reading this post saw a level 54 enchanter trying to CC ilis or reet frogs, golems in hole, HS south/east, etc? I'm pretty sure that 54 enchanter would have seen a lot of resists in those locations before the patch... not that anyone has done any of those things at 54 since the first weeks of Kunark [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[koros]

Originally Posted by Tecmos Deception [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

When was the last time anyone who is reading this post saw a level 54 enchanter trying to CC ilis or reet frogs, golems in hole, HS south/east, etc? I'm pretty sure that 54 enchanter would have seen a lot of resists in those locations before the patch... not that anyone has done any of those things at 54 since the first weeks of Kunark [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Fair enough. Resist rate on mez was ridiculously low tho.

[Tecmos Deception]

Originally Posted by koros [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Resist rate on mez was ridiculously low tho.

What context are you talking about?

You made it sound like a 54 enchanter would be able to reliably mez level 52-53 mobs pre-tash before the patch... and that is just plain untrue. 53s resisted 60 enchanters at a fair clip; a 54 would have had a BOATLOAD of resists in places like HS east or the nasty parts of the hole. That's why you NEVER see chanters that low in those places.

I'm not arguing that CC couldn't use some intentional resist tweaks... but you're just making shit up or not understanding how things were working or something with the stuff you're saying.