Open season on ALL Guilds!

[heartbrand]

Just another argument in favor of variance. nihilum basically has a very small window for VP currently due to their reliance on the older established euro players with gear and keys. If there was variance and they couldn't just knock out all 6 back to back, it would be far more difficult for them to keep VP clear and open up the door for azrael to snipe some of the easier dragons like PD or silverwing

[freez]

Originally Posted by k9quaint [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It is far easier to kill all raid mobs on 1 day each week by having the zerg reserve 1 day for gaming. Login in, earn DKP, log out for a week leaving the server a wasteland with zero end game and low pop.

Variance will make that harder to do. So either the zerg will have to play every day in order to lock down every raid mob, or the rest of the server will have a shot at downing raid targets. It raises the difficulty level and expands the end game to include the rest of the server. Of course, the DKP farmers will hate variance because it invalidates their gear spreadsheet timelines.

pretty sad we have to break it down for these idiots

10 times a day

wasted effort bro. just sit back and watch the server continue to be a sub 200 sandbox or change the shit the majority is voting for for a real server.

ill get the itch sometime, log in and PL a stranger.. why? no fucking clue. I almost feel like im griefing people by helping them get to max level.

server is that fuckin bad brah

[heartbrand]

No variance leads to less pvp. Most "fights" are stand offs between the two large guilds at the time to see who has more warm bodies and usually no pvp ensues due to the fact that most battles the winner can be predicted based upon numbers / levels alone. With variance and having to scramble a force to a mob, you're far more likely to see skirmishes over mobs. Having said this, I think it would need to be a small window.

On a personal note, I think non variance actually helps my guild. Variance would benefit the smaller guilds or crews.

[DrNarcisse]

Let me make one final point on the subject.

Everyone is focused on comparing variance on blue to how it would work on red. The idea of players having to track mob spawn points is brought up, but no one talks about the PVP implications of it. Nihilum is largely inactive on the server except on their raid days, this gives the advantage to players who are active and playing on the server. To think that Nihilum will be able to track each mob with impunity is so wrong. The active players will be able to remove Nihilium trackers from zones - on Blue99 that is not possible.

Everyone wants to bring up batphones, well for active guilds that won't be an issue: THEY'LL ALREADY BE ONLINE! You know who it's an issue for? A zerg guild that has shown they will only log on when it suits their own needs. The inactive guilds will be the ones needing to batphone. The others who simply play the server will have a chance to mount up and quickly attack raid targets.

In addition, batphones are not instantaneous. They sometimes take many hours to get adequate forces online. So while a zerg guild might find out that a secondary guild is mounting up their entire 20 active guild membership and be able to get 20 players online, the chances that those 20 players from the zerg guild are high quality players and in sink pvp-wise is unlikely. Variance policy change will open the door for actual friends to create guilds and even the playing field (if only for a few hours). The current system even a 20 person guild of friends is forced to recruit additional fodder to come close to competing with a zerg guild. Then because of these issues, the guild falters and everyone points and says "LOOK! ITS PROOF THAT THE SYSTEM WORKS, WE"RE JUST BETTER!", when its so painfully obvious the system does not work and only lends itself to recruiting the most players (not active, just bodies that you can call up and will log on in a 3hour window).

[Retti_]

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[Labanen]

Originally Posted by heartbrand [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

With variance and having to scramble a force to a mob

no, with variance we will sit there and wait for the mob to spawn for a long time while wanting to slid our wrists and cursing how blue server took over red. But we will still do it as we have the people with the highest playtime on the server.

However in doing so, we will loose members that will burn out due to having to poopsock. Hence we will have to recruit even more fiercely and in doing so the opposition will hurt worse than they currently do, creating a less populated and less fun server for the few survivors.

[DrNarcisse]

Originally Posted by Labanen [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

no, with variance we will sit there and wait for the mob to spawn for a long time while wanting to slid our wrists and cursing how blue server took over red. But we will still do it as we have the people with the highest playtime on the server.

However in doing so, we will loose members that will burn out due to having to poopsock. Hence we will have to recruit even more fiercely and in doing so the opposition will hurt worse than they currently do, creating a less populated and less fun server for the few survivors.

I just wanted to quote this so you can't edit it further.

I sure do love the strawman argument that says: "Since we [x zerg guild] have to do more work to maintain our 100% raid mob kill rate, many of our members will quit because we will have to spend time competing, then we will try to recruit more, but the server will be less populated because we will have to actually log on for more than 3 hours a week."

The basis for your argument is a double negative. Your members will quit your zerg, so you will recruit more, and somehow that effects the server. A guild that is rarely online because of the current policy is going to lose members/recruit more, and that's supposedly going to make the server less fun for everyone? More like, less fun for you personally (thats the key) and more fun for EVERYONE else. As I've discussed, the reality of the situation is that the policy will make it possible for active guilds of friends to have a fighting chance on any given day, rather than serving up each raid mob to a zerg of inactive players (except the 3 hours when DKP is handed out for showing up).

I don't penalize Nihilum members for feeling this way, it is natural. You've spent over a year under the guise that these server policies were well thought out and you've farmed countless items for probably hundreds of people who've quit your guild (Nihilum being the guild with the highest member turnover ratio in Red99 history by a long shot), and you simply want to continue the trend of logging in each week for a couple of hours until your DKP is at the top of the list and you can spend it on [X SUPER RARE ITEM]. So yeah, I don't blame you guys, I blame Sirken and Nilbog, the only people who can change the system. I can't blame Nihilum because the way it's set up, even if they weren't to exist, someone else would take their spot. The fundamental core of the server has to change, and that is something only the top layer of staff can do.


Also, I'm curious how you'll simply sit there waiting for random mobs to spawn when the windows begin overlapping the hours into days. When one window will have VS, Trak, Sev, Gore, Sky mobs, etc all in the potential window - your plan is that a guild that currently can keep a max of about 3-5 members online EXCEPT during their 3 hour raid days each week, is suddenly going to be tracking all of these mob windows? Mobs that they haven't needed in a year? Of course your members will quit because they will realize how pointless it is when all they care about is loot for themselves, and more guilds will rise up to fight for these mobs. This isn't Blue99, your trackers will be open game. Lets see how well an inactive zerg guild can compete with the active playerbase. There are only so many Nizzars/Tunes/Battles that can track mobs. Think about someone like LittleGyno or any member of <Savage Wolves>, that are now all in Nihilum, trying to fight actual PVPers. It will be laughable, and it will be fun. Exactly what this server needs. Bring on variance!


*edit: I don't want the last comment to make it seem like I think Nizzar/Tune/Battle aren't terrible players --they are--, but compared to someone like LittleGyno they are superstars.

[Pudge]

i guess i think of all these things, just dont type them out. I thought the argument for variance was basically self-explanatory.

but cast actually not trolling and laying out some meaningful points (amidst some other choice words) that i hope GMs take as reasoned "debate" and not write off as flaming on them

[Labanen]

I play almost daily btw. But on euro time.

Yes the fact that the top guild has a higher turnover rate will drain feeder guilds, being as it is with only 2-3 major guilds on the server that means the opposition will suffer alot. This isnt rocket science and follows every argument you made yourself about the route to pixels...

If we have to sit at raid mobs a couple of hours because of variance, we will. But it wont benefit the opposition or the server. It will increase player turnover rates though and i fail to see that as a positive thing.

[DrNarcisse]

Originally Posted by Labanen [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I play almost daily btw. But on euro time.

Yes the fact that the top guild has a higher turnover rate will drain feeder guilds, being as it is with only 2-3 major guilds on the server that means the opposition will suffer alot. This isnt rocket science and follows every argument you made yourself about the route to pixels...

No, you're spinning these arguments to fit your agenda. In the current system, the only guilds that suffer are the "opposition", for all the reasons I've already listed about that you conveniently skip over. In a system with variance, the "opposition" will have a fair shake at contesting mobs, not the abortion method that is currently in place where a secondary guild is chastised for not being able to compete against a zerg of 100 roster players with raid mobs in a small window of their choosing.

The "route to pixels" is because of the policy on the server. It will always prop up one guild because the way to rule and control the whole server is through numbers. That is currently (and has been) the only way to compete. There are many changes to that scheme with adding variance, which I've already listed in the 3 prior posts.

If we have to sit at raid mobs a couple of hours because of variance, we will. But it wont benefit the opposition or the server. It will increase player turnover rates though and i fail to see that as a positive thing.

That's a lot of prophesying and I'm extremely curious how you plan on sitting through a 12 hour spawn window if variance is implemented, for every spawn, every week. I'm also curious to watch zerg guilds who try to implement these styles that Blue99 use on a red population and watch their guild fail. You have enormous turnover with the EASIEST raid system in the world, you tell your 100 zerg members to log in for a couple of hours a week and give them DKP and a chance at an item. AND THEY STILL LEAVE IN DROVES! Yet you think you'll have a guild after a month of expecting these people to track spawn points while getting murdered by the active playerbase and while losing raid mobs to new guilds?! Yeah considering you've already burned through the vast majority of players on the server already, I laugh at the thought of you trying to recruit players when you can't even keep players who only have to give up a few hours a week to kill dragons in an assembly line. The only turnover it will increase is YOUR GUILD, which IS A GOOD THING! Anything that gives more power to smaller guilds and less to a single zerg (no matter who they are) is a great thing for the server.

LOL, wishful thinking there tough guy!