Kael + ToV Rules

[arsenalpow]

Originally Posted by Daldaen [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Vulak itself should require you concede every mob you kite because you kite them for awhile, tying them up.

The no competition thing is dubious though. When we acquired FTE on Lady M, Divinity/Anon were still locked in on Eashen and no other force was in the zone. By the time we killed Koi I believe they were still locked in. So we had no competition per that logic and could've ran another racer up for Lady M to lock in on her if we wanted.

I think another way to handle it is this:

You FTE say... Cekenar, grabbing the other Triplets. You pull and kill Cekenar, while having bogus FTEs on Zlexak and Sevalak. You can go for Zlexak or Sevalak, after getting FTE on another different mob and killing it (say Ikatiar) and then going back for Triplets mobs. Basically you cannot kill a target and then follow that up with FTE on a mob you got bogus FTE on during your pull or kite. You must have a buffer mob inbetween to allow other guilds fair shots at that target.

My reasoning behind this is you have to go for a buffer mob inbetween, preventing the situation Chest is talking about. Even if a pull inhibited his pull, he would have ample time during our other kill to make his attempt at getting FTE on the mob. It prevents having to outright concede a target and prevents any shenanigans with kiting a target off dropping it and then picking it up when your other target is dead.

But then there's policing all that which is rough. You have to be watching good FTEs and bad FTEs, ensure there's a buffer dragon in between. Yikes.

[Daldaen]

Fair. I would love less rules or more streamlined ones. Was just thinking of a way to prevent the issue you're talking about.

I just think it's a bit dumb you have to concede a target for getting FTE on it after you're already locked in. Maybe just throw a lockout on a bad FTE.

I.E. You get FTE on Triplets, you've got 60 minutes to kill your target and the others you cannot engage for 20 minutes. When the 20 minutes expire if your primary target is dead you can go after the other Triplets. Etc.

[arsenalpow]

Originally Posted by Daldaen [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Fair. I would love less rules or more streamlined ones. Was just thinking of a way to prevent the issue you're talking about.

I just think it's a bit dumb you have to concede a target for getting FTE on it after you're already locked in. Maybe just throw a lockout on a bad FTE.

I.E. You get FTE on Triplets, you've got 60 minutes to kill your target and the others you cannot engage for 20 minutes. When the 20 minutes expire if your primary target is dead you can go after the other Triplets. Etc.

Dald I'm not disagreeing with anything you're saying, my concerns are just the enforcement of these concepts. It's dumb to straight concede something, but it's also the easiest way to enforce stuff with all the lunacy involved in ToV.

[Daldaen]

I think the most recent suggestion I made is easily tracked and fair to resolve any possible issues.

20 min from False FTE before you can engage again, assuming your primary target is dead at that point.

Dunno what the situation was like in ToV after Vulak but we did our best to clearly communicate each FTE, what mobs we weren't going after and when 4-way was going to be pulled through.

If guilds are communicating it shouldn't be bad.

[Kileras]

on repop i see it getting messy because for us smaller folk running people in isn't an endless wave of people. We don't have lockets and are limited in some resources. If we are going for eashen and want to tag it for our 1 hour, it sucks to run up for it and then be killed in the train in xroads or simply have the mob kited away from you already locked into another guilds Yellow text.

With the way it is now, Whoever gets in their first really makes it difficult for anyone else to "lay claim" to a target. because the mobs are constantly training up/down and all over the palace.

I know last night we just stated as soon as we were going for a mob which one we were running for and on engage would announce that particular mob as Anon/divinity and then announce all secondary mobs as unintended tags we would not contest until our mob was completely down. I know we aren't a big threat to anyone, but that was our personal approach to trying to handle it. Whether or not that broke the spirit of the rule i don't know, but we ran it by every other guild that was in there any everyone seemed okay with what had happened so we ventured on.

I will say, that if you wanna run for the deeper/bigger targets, I like the idea of having to wait a set amount of time before engaging your accidental FTE's. This almost imposes a very loose class system. The big guilds will go for the best targets and the smaller targets that the inexperienced crews might not be able to race to ( while still contested ) become a bit more in reach. Going for the biggest targets as fast as possible to compete nets you a chance at zoning yourselves out of the smallest mobs for a bit.

our biggest issue with this was fighting at west, we needed to tag ltk to train up and clear the area, we debated for probably an hour if we felt it was right or not to engage LTK and after talking with the other guild leaders and so much time passing since pop we went ahead and killed it.

[Pint]

I'm not sure I understand where the policing issue comes into play. If you're in the zone then you see the ftes in real time and know what's going on, you can communicate that you intend to go foe accidental fte X. If you're not in the zone or intending to fte something then there isn't anything to police on your end bc you weren't contesting I'm the first place.

The only real concern I see is when you accidentally kite and fte another persons mob with your pull which then eats into their 1 hour allotment.

[Kileras]

Originally Posted by Pint [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I'm not sure I understand where the policing issue comes into play. If you're in the zone then you see the ftes in real time and know what's going on, you can communicate that you intend to go foe accidental fte X. If you're not in the zone or intending to fte something then there isn't anything to police on your end bc you weren't contesting I'm the first place.

The only real concern I see is when you accidentally kite and fte another persons mob with your pull which then eats into their 1 hour allotment.

this was solved ( at least last night ) with realizing your kite was eating into another persons pull and just not bothering them about it if it went over time by a bit. I think we went over time on 1 mob by 8 minutes or so? This was only because we simply could not get a tagger out safely or we were waiting for train up/downs to reset.

[Culkasi]

These new rules have done NOTHING to solve the problem that started it all in the first place - killing stuff in places that kill other people. The whole reason for the 1 hour etc was not so that the smaller guilds could killl stuff, it was so that you didn't have to pull stuff to entrance and kill guilds but could either clear to the mob or set up somewhere else.

Please, can we stop this behaviour? It kills other guilds, and its not acceptable.

[Breaken]

I asked Detoxx to kill mobs in the cubby. He said he was given permission to kill at entrance as long as they give ample warning. I have no confirmation that this is true, but I believe it is.

[Culkasi]

This isn't an attack on Detoxx, he is trying to be nice about it etc, and its hard for them when you set up at west exit. But we need to find a solution, because I have a lot of people who are getting very tired of getting killed because people need to kill so fast that they can't do it on the spawn point - something the 1 hour time was supposed to fix.

The alternative is that everyone accepts that only AA are allowed to be in ToV, and GMs change it to a non-policy zone like old VP