Raid scene: Variance Socking

[texwilly]

This feels constructive and in agreement with most if not all players...but is this something Derubael, Sirken, Rogean, and Nilbog would even consider? I havn't followed those direct discussions much because it always seemed untouchable given the vibes senior staff have made.

I would think it would be a breath of fresh air for staff members to not be dealing with as much raid-whining for a year or so until the "green" server catches up.

[kaev]

Originally Posted by Magnar [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Another server would just be ruined by the same raid mentality as here.

It takes time to achieve the level of ruin we have now. I don't think a "classic" timeline would allow for quite as much ruin. (But let us not forget the cockblocking that shat up some of the live servers back in the day. P99 did not invent the use of the word "competition" as a synonym for "do everything legal plus anything and everything else you think you might be able to get away with to shit all over your neighbors, PvE my ass!" mentality.)

There is a higher density of, hrrm, let's call them "extremists", that's not too pejorative? in our community than there was on live. There is also a lot better detailed knowledge about game mechanics and content than there was on live. I have no doubt that free accounts plus this extensive knowledge would be as heavily exploited by said extremists on a new server as they have been to date, but even so they wouldn't have the time (and the period of legal account trading) to take things to the level they're at now. In particular, limiting the Kunark to Velious delay to only the historical 9 months would probably have a pretty large effect.


[heresy]
Still, it's worth noting that on many/most live servers Lower Guk was paved with people camping single spawns for the last 2-3 months before Kunark dropped. The first year of content might should be compressed into a six-month span if the goal is to avoid the "ruin" that is the current p99 raid environment. Hell, given the way people play here, 6 months classic, then 6 months Kunark, then 12 months of Velious, and then introduce custom high-end raid content after that, if you want to achieve a substantial reduction in the friction between the extremists and the casuals.
[/heresy]

[falkun]

Tex, most of the people arguing with you (metallikus, arsenalpow, erati, daldaen, myself) came to these conclusions a while ago. You must be incredibly new to TMO/the raid scene, your suggestions and logic are from your join date, 2011.

[texwilly]

No, I've been here. I think that the current attempts at fixing this are hopeless due to the people having the conversations. We are employing the old "history knows best" policy on why variance is bad. I'm attempting to think outside of the popular thought process due to the evolution of the server and raid situation that exists NOW, not 2 years ago when variance was changed last.

Make your assumptions about what guild I am from or how new to raiding i am, it's completely irrelevant to attack the person, better to attack their ideas. I have yet to hear compelling argument against increased variance besides the number of existing raiding alternates available to guilds (a valid contest).

I am not convinced of the effect on "class R" guilds and increased variance. They cry that it hurts them, but in the extreme +-XX hour variance, it could in fact benefit them if TMO and IB are not socked at every upcoming spawn as they are now.

A final thought. Pretty much every change to date, made by the same people arguing over how to fix it this time, has resulted in extraordinary manipulation of rules and debauchery. If this were a government or big business, they would be fired and fresh people and ideas would be brought in. I do not want to be one of those people, but I find it interesting that server GM's thought long and hard about increasing variance the first time and perhaps were on the right track, they just weren't quite ready at that evolution of the server.

PS, thanks falkun for your Bard kiting guide. Made my twink much easier to get off the ground on the learning curve.

[jpetrick]

Originally Posted by texwilly [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You and jpetrick have the same ill-fated thoughts about this being a death sentence to smaller guilds. Now my logic may be flawed because there arn't enough raid target without Velious in the picture, but I believe that the 15ish "raid-merbs" being in window simultaneously would provide for more opportunities for smaller guilds to jump into the action.

Uhh just because the mobs have overlapping windows doesn't mean they all will spawn at the same time. Class C guilds have more than enough players and characters to cover tracking all the spawns (lets not forgot 6 of those spawns are in the same damn zone). Lets say my 24 are sitting in for VS. A window with 1 hour variance would give us the same shot as any other guild there assuming each guild is employing the same tactics. Your logic is completely fucked.

[texwilly]

Let's say 10 mobs are in window. You think IB/TMO have 20 dedicated neckbeards to cover FTE and tracking? Sometimes we have to rustle up folks for 3 spawns...I'm presuming that even the trackers would rotate between accounts, this provides opportunities for other guilds, no?

You are extreme on one side, i guess I am extreme on the other? Both are based on assumptions.

[jpetrick]

How about the thing where no one wants to sit around for hours on end. I'm sure class c doesn't like their whole Saturday/Sunday being used to sit on 16 hour windows. Why the fuck can't we have 1 or 2 hour windows so people can do other things with their free time? I have never once seen a compelling reason from a GM answering this question. FFA is already a shitshow with 16 hour windows. Sure shorter windows will make that worse. Guess what though?! You don't have to contest FFA mobs if you don't want to.

[Rivthis]

I said it somewhere else,

Randomize the repop so it isnt locked at 1 week or whatever it is now.


A raid mob might spawn 3 times in 1 week or not once in 2 weeks.

Back when I raided on live we actually sent out trackers to find out what was before a raid would start, or do a bat phone if we accidentally found something up and a raid wasn't planned.

[HeallunRumblebelly]

Originally Posted by Rivthis [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I said it somewhere else,

Randomize the repop so it isnt locked at 1 week or whatever it is now.


A raid mob might spawn 3 times in 1 week or not once in 2 weeks.

Back when I raided on live we actually sent out trackers to find out what was before a raid would start, or do a bat phone if we accidentally found something up and a raid wasn't planned.

I've always supported the completely random timers like this . Without the c r ffa system however r would never see another mob like this unless they tracked non stop and prepped for only 1 or 2 targets at a time. I guarantee class c would simply maintain ranger tracking at important targets with as much uptime as possible. Might even keep an fte person logged at pd just due to the importance of it. We already have permanent vp toons.

[HeallunRumblebelly]

Complete removal of variance would cause a zerg fte fuckfest worse than we have seen even on low window vs pre extended Windows, but it would be the option most friendly to casual and hard core raider alike. Just have the mob spawn with someone targeted like it used to be and play fte lottery .