Game Mechanics: Lets Talks About Velious Binding Rules

[Bman703]

Originally Posted by Skew [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I was one of the first few people on The Nameless to be bound INSIDE PoM when the zone was just a broken shell with nothing to do.
No one , not any class , could bind in ToV in the first 6 months or so of Velious. I dont know what happened after that as i quit to play DAoC.

This server picks and chooses whats classic. I just figured Rogean wanted people to bind in ToV /shrug NBD.
But if the argument is about classic , then binding in ToV wasnt classic.

This

[Colgate]

even though i have everything to lose and nothing to gain by disabling binding in temple of veeshan, you have to either have an ulterior motive or be an actual retard to think that there isn't enough evidence posted in this thread to warrant this change

[Pint]

i like that posts from the era are somehow more questionable than people's memories itt. all evidence points to tov not being a bindable place at any point in eq's timeline except for anecdotal evidence from people who stand to lose their bind point. (i have 5 toons bound inside tov including melee toons)

[JurisDictum]

I think the Rampage PR team here has been ineffective at persuading anyone. But just in case I'm going to point out something that should be obvious.

There is no textual evidence from the old days that you could bind in ToV but plenty of comments talking about binding outside of ToV. The generic rule was that you could not bind in Kunark or Velious dungeons. Currently on live, you cannot bind in those zones. Therefore, the burden of prof is on the argument that you could bind in ToV, not the other way around. Obviously we are going to lack certainty on this topic -- welcome to p99.

[Ciroco]

I disagree that people binding outside of ToV is evidence of anything, but there's still enough here that I'd say it probably shouldn't be allowed.

[Foxplay]

Try not to let your emotions guide your reasoning as to what is "proof"

Some dates for you to be concerned about you deciding on what is "Classic and what is not"

Velious Releae Date --- December 5th, 2000

~Patches between these times where searched for Temple of Veeshan, and Bind keywords

Luclin Release Date -- December 4th, 2001

~Patches after this release date and changes within them are not classic to Velious

Thus if you are honestly motivated on policing what is "classic" and do not have alternative motives for trying to sway the staff in deciding to make "P99" rules exemptions or exceptions which keep in mind do already exist for major game mechanics then we are looking at patch notes between these times. As luck would have it, Fox has already done this for you, but it gets even better I compared patch notes outside of this timeline in order to look an outlying red flag of information. Here is a few on the subject of binding locations in Vel in regards to the actual classic timeline

------------------------------
November 7, 2001
------------------------------
** Zone Specific Changes **

- Kael now has specific bind locations, located only at the entryways.
This means that binding will only be possible in those areas.

Thus logically from this information we will infer that prior to the Nov, 7 patch before Luclin, Kael should allow binding anywhere in the zone, and after the Nov 7 patch (in this timeline) should be at that time restricted to the entryway's by your reasoning of "classic" however if you want to make P99 exceptions again that is another discussion entirely. Keep in mind this is the final patch prior to Luclin that changed any game mechanics not counting server side patches

Lets keep going...

------------------------------
December 18, 2001 3:00 am
------------------------------
** Note about upcoming changes to the Temple of Veeshan **

In the next patch, we are making a few changes to the monster
population in Temple of Veeshan. Places that were previously safe to
camp, may not be any longer. Please be sure to not camp deep within the
Temple of Veeshan on Wednesday night, or you may be unpleasantly
surprised following the patch.

Note this change refers to your safe halls flurry drakes, but the key important thing to consider here is the DATE, this patch was put in after Luclin release of Dec 4th, so the removal of the safe spot in NToV that happend in this patch if going questing for true classic should be removed and restored to how it was prior to the Dec 18th safe spot removal. Oh theres more for further clarification and proof of what this change actually did...

------------------------------
December 28, 2001
------------------------------

- Some spots in ToV no longer safe to camp out due to New Drakes and
Wurm spawns being added.
- A bug allowing multiple pets to be summoned has been fixed.

Prior to Vel release there is no mention either in Vanilla or Kunark patch notes anywhere that remotely mentions restrictions on Caster Binds, nor is there any mention of restriction of Caster binds between Velious release and Luclin release with the exception of the Kael Entryway restriction mentioned above

As for melee binds the restriction of bind being cast on another player and not self are well known to be limited to specific outdoor zones in certain areas flagged for it (Like the Overthere outpost) and City zones these restrictions have little to do with Caster-Self Binding

As for bind restrictions being already put in place to zones for Caster self only to not be mentioned in patch notes. Yes that is a distinct possibility I never played a caster during that era nor did I ever have a Locket so I cannot say with certainty "Yup I bound there" However quoting old forums saying that everyone to be mound at ToV zone in pillar's is not even close to definitive proof

People raided very differently back then, guilds did full clears of zones that took all night and even multiple "Raid nights" and sorry to say but they where chicken shit and did not want to bind In a zone that could cause death chain's or that where very far or out of the way simply because those raid mobs had a GUARANTEED SPAWN TIME or a much smaller spawn window there was little to no reason for a raiding guild back in the day to do the binding that happens on P99 cause they knew when their raid night was, and they ALL IN FORCE showed up on those nights to clear everything in the zone to get to their raid targets. So there was little reason to Bind inside the zone and instead bind outside for a few purposes 1- Sont, 2) Zlandicar/Klandicar , yup dual purpose, gate to ToV and from there run over to DN for Zland. 3) Complete wipe *aka corpse retrieval mode* castes zone back in to entrance which is a completely safe spot and begin summoning corpses - yea it sounds outdated compared to tactics used on P99 but like I said raiding was a bit more primitive back then

So there you have it, no hard text from game dev's mentioning that ToV had Binds taken away at any point, and no hard proof that it was disabled from the get go. However the Safe spots nerf in deep NToV where most certainly post Luclin changes and should not be concerned with the P99 timeline unless we are also making another specific P99 exception. You have a lot of forum posts from the dark ages of raiding where everybody beat sticks and rocks together trying to make fire, fast forward to P99 where everybody pouring gasoline and jet fuel (Gate potions and Lockets) to light the same fire -- suffice to say the fire CAN get lit either way, a bunch of sticks and rocks can make a fire but its going to take a lot more work than the gasoline and jet fuel. But i don't really find "Raid Guides" from the dark ages as definitive proof that ToV restricted binding simply due to their chosen bind location simply because the bind they choose was a good safe bind and it got the job done back in those days when raids would full clear zones and "Work there way into NToV". Also raid binds where something that where typically set ON RAID DAY as casters usually wanted to have their binds elsewhere *their home city or next to a dungeon zone* and melee....well didn't have many options to begin with anyway if they died they sat it town naked waiting for a rez. Binding back then as I remember it was a "We are going to kill in this zone so ill reset my bind before we move in" sort of deal it was not a "Raid mob X is in window, so we are required to bind at Y location and be ready to login and spam the gate button"

I personally was not one of the super omega god-tier raid guilds back in the day I was on povar which was DECIMATED by Triton, my guild had to wait until LATE Luclin era before we began raiding NToV and my guild used the dark ages rub two sticks together method, we didn't think outside the box....but we had a lot of fun and cleared NToV on our raid nights "granted we had Luclin spells and AA points to help us"

I cannot answer from personal experience as to specific zone lockouts for Bind because I was a well prepared monk back in the day, If i got left behind id just Flop to safety, If i died I had coffins in my bank, If I was feeling Lazy id just Thurg Gate Cause I love getting high on Velium Vapors

[Man0warr]

Kael is a city, not a dungeon. You could bind anywhere in Kael before that patch - it was changed because people were exploiting the Arena to take non-exp deaths while fighting PvE content. This was implemented ahead of time on P99.

The changes to safe spots in NToV were done because raids were camping out deep inside or CotHing to bypass trash - it had nothing to do with binding. These safe spots were removed ahead of time on P99 as well by adding the extra Flurry drakes.

At no point could you ever bind in a Velious dungeon. You still can't on Live. Something as major as that change would have necessitated a patch note and/or removal of player's current bind spots - there's no evidence of either happening.

[Crom]

Posts like this, kinda makes it hard to belive that binding inside ToV should be possible.

http://www.eqclerics.org/forums/show...light=bind+tov

"Nothing like the rush of DA training past Sontalak then stopping to bind yourself at Temple of Veeshan zoneline while he is gnawing on you..."

"As many others have said, it's a clerics responsibility to bind near the fight so that in the event of a wipe out, CR takes far less time.

I bind all over the place, WW, outside ToV, in Fear, you name it. I also keep 5 FoB and 5 Everfrost gate potions on me, just in case. So far, no need to use them because my fellow guildmates always worry about getting us out after we're done."


http://www.eqclerics.org/forums/show...light=bind+tov

HoT (Halls of Testing)- east wing is where you are going then.

1. Getting to ToV will be easy as you are not KoS to CoV - so you dont have to worry about Sontalak. Have all casters bind right outside.

2. Move everyone down into ToV - down the picture hall and setup in the hub room facing Zemm.


http://www.eqclerics.org/forums/show...light=bind+tov

Lack of melee binding? Tell me a place where you can go that is over 3 zones away from any melee bind point (ToV is furthest that I know of)


So we have caster saying bind outside even with a dragon trying to eat them, and melee complaining that nearest melee bind point is three zones away from ToV...

Hard to claim anyone should be able to bind inside ToV...

[Erati]

Insane that a guy would just bind outside with a dragon currently beating on him rather than click in and bind safely lol

seems like that ability to bind inside didnt exist or people would be doing that to skip Sont and mentioning it as a tip

[Ele]

Found a bind affinity description from May 2001 on Graffe.

https://web.archive.org/web/20010521...ls/level12.htm

Bind Affinity
Mana Required: 100
Skill: Alteration
Range to Target: 100 feet
Allowable Targets: All
Spell Duration: Instant
Casting Time: 6.0 seconds
Spell Recovery: 2.25 seconds
Recast Delay: 12.0 seconds
Description: This spell will bind you to anyplace within the world of Norrath except for dungeons in Kunark and Velious (note that you can bind in Kaesora and a couple other places now). It can be cast upon another but they must be in your party and also they must be in a town. This is an invaluable spell for all of us and can also make you rich. Although I bind people for free, I have seen other casters easily get one platinum per bind.
Location:

Note that the "in Kaesora and a couple other places" is referencing the March 6, 2001 patch adding new bind locations in FM, Field of Bone @ Kaesora ruins, and Gypsy camps. http://www.eqclerics.org/forums/showthread.php?t=2631
http://www.tokyo2001.com/game/eq/que...eldbone04.html
https://www.project1999.com/forums/s...ad.php?t=18807



This link was posted by nilbog in the Kunark new bind areas thread, directly above. April 2001. A later snapshot is posted in OP.
http://web.archive.org/web/200104280...bindguide.html

Binding in Norrath

I'm frequently asked by people to let them know where they can bind in a certain area. This will provide the basic information on who can bind and where.

Basic Rules

First of all, there are some basic rules as to who can be bound and where. All the caster classes eventually get the ability to Bind Affinity (or bind for short) themselves and other people. Melee classes never get this ability, nor is there any items that will allow you to do it. There was once an item, called the Locket of Escape, that had one charge of Bind Affinity, but this no longer drops in the game. This ability is now purely within the caster's realm.

Exactly where a caster can bind themselves depends on what area of the game we're talking about. In the area of the original game (i.e. Antonica, Faydwer, and Odus) a caster can bind themself anywhere, inside or out. In Kunark and Velious, however, they are only able to bind themselves in outdoor areas, and can not bind themselves in dungeons.

Melee classes can only be bound inside of "city" areas. In the original game, this is defined as only cities. In Kunark there are some areas that count as cities that are also dungeons to hunt in. Also, a person can be bound in several areas that are outside as well. Note that in Kunark, there are two areas to be bound in, one is safe for good races and the other safe for evil races. The iksar can also be bound inside Cabilis, which is safe for nobody else.