Game Mechanics: fix charm

ammut · #1 01-15-2010, 01:09 AM

Right now charm is broken. An enchanter shouldn't be able to charm an npc 7 levels higher than him for full duration.

Dabamf · #2 01-15-2010, 01:37 AM

Charm has been a total catastrophe of a spell since day 1. Charm was almost never used in raids as it was way too short and unpredictable, and charisma didn't matter so much. I could charm lguk mobs on my necro with like 120 cha long enough to kill the pet and FD. Enchanters with 200 could charm for longer, but it was still incredibly unpredictable and not even remotely close to the duration that they can do now.a

The current game has a newer charm/charisma formula and makes enchanters preposterously overpowered. I don't see it going away any time soon.

Jete · #3 01-15-2010, 02:21 AM

I think the Charm formula is correct at least from a bard stand point.

I can charm yellows / reds for about 20 seconds at most with my mana using lvl 39 charm. As for blues / light blues I use my non mana charm which breaks about.. 60% of the time in the worst case scenario. (exactly like it should =P ) Any nerf to the current Charm would render bard charm even more useless than it used to be - since its not possible to charm kite due to faction not working.

This is at 180 CHA.

Edit- If this was truly classic charm would have no level cap as well. The bard mana using charm was put in the game sometime before Kunark. It was possible to charm raid mobs before then. So if anything, get rid of bard mana using charm, and take the lvl cap off the other one. GG. =P

Hasbinbad · #4 01-15-2010, 03:03 AM

As I understand it, charming at high levels with high efficacy is only possible with 255 charisma. I can assure you that this emulates live quite well at least during the kunark -> pop era, as I played a raiding enchanter during that period. The fact is that nobody seriously pumped charisma back in the day, so while this is seen as non-classic, it actually is.

guineapig · #5 01-15-2010, 08:37 AM

You have to also consider the fact that without charm enchanters provide almost zero DPS on a raid (outside of haste/clarity) since so many mobs have tons or magic resistance and that's the only branch of magic we have access to.

I can't vouch for how it was on live or how it is now with 200+ MR.

I can say that the one time I attempted to charm on this server was in my low 30's in Splitpaw. I had maybe 135 charisma at the time and I tashed/charmed one of the light blue con gnolls at the entrance (so it was much lower level than me). The charm never lasted more than a minute and was quite annoying. At that point the group decided to find a tank and I put my charm spell away.

Scrooge · #6 01-18-2010, 12:05 AM

Enchanter were never meant to be DPS in the first place, the option to Charm on live always carried a big risk with it for the user, and I don't think I ever remember it being as stable as it is here...not that I have any complaints, heh.

Dabamf · #7 01-18-2010, 12:16 AM

Charm in live was not even close to how it is here. I knew enchanters who had full charisma sets. Charm still never lasted more than a couple minutes at best. And it was much more inconsistent. And for raid-ish mobs like FGs, charm broke in <1 minute all the time. Charming any mob to kill a raid encounter (like charming a fetid to kill draco or CT) was absolutely out of the question, as charm was likely to break, kill the enchanter then go nuts on the raid. Can anyone remember charming mobs to assist in raid encounters? I'd be quite surprised.

I could also charm clear lguk lord solo as a nec with only a shitty charisma set. Charisma wasn't as important, so even with a DE nec's low charisma, it usually lasted long enough for my pet to die (the goal) and me to FD.

On this server, charisma seems to quite clearly affect charm duration linearly. 60 charisma = 1-2 second charm, every time. 120 charisma = 10 seconds (on green). 160 = 20+. Etc. On live it was MUCH more volatile. 60 charisma sometimes lasted 20 seconds or more. 160 sometimes broke in 4 seconds. Etc

President · #8 01-18-2010, 12:45 AM

Other than a CH rotation and a MT I don't remember much strategy at all back in the day lol.

I can't say I don't find it a bit overpowered but I don't really think its a serious problem. I don't remember what charm was like back in the day but even in this post we have mixed reviews. What I have noticed though is everyone seems to have a brain about them and knows what the hell is up. The enchanters I have grouped and played with that decided to charm always re applied the spell well before it had a chance at breaking between fights and were conscious of the charm time.

Ghesta · #9 02-08-2010, 08:40 AM

This is so odd. I was coming here to say that charm is broken and I find a thread that states the exact opposite of my opinion.

I don't know about enchanter / necro / bard charm. Sorry I just don't. I'm a druid. Played a druid for 7 years. I played during blue box and was leveling my druid during that era. Around the teens when my druid got her first charm spell I used to hang out in the Karana's and charm even con animals and pet kite all day long.

Charm would last anywhere from 30 seconds to several minutes, and if I could get an enchanter to Tash the mob before I charmed it, it would very often last for the duration of Tash.

Now this was often without ANY CHA gear whatsoever. None, 75 cha and I'd have mobs for usually a few minutes at a time.

That being said in the current server build, I can't charm a blue mob for more then 18 seconds at the most. When I was grouping in oasis in my teens I even had a high level enchanter tash a blue con caimen before I charmed it, and it was still breaking immediately, 6-24 seconds.

This isn't a huge deal for me as a druid as it is for enchanters, but it's certainly not right. I know from experience that I should be able to hold animals for several minutes without a break with no problem, and it's just not happening.

Jify · #10 02-08-2010, 08:51 AM

It's all about CHA. I difference between unbuffed at 75 CHA and buffed at 185 CHA is night and day.

It seems appropriate duration for bards at least. Once in a blue moon I'll get a full 60s on charm, but most of the time in PoHate it is <30 on yellows, and <45 on evens. Does the trick though. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]