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  #11  
Old 11-02-2012, 03:12 PM
Ferok Ferok is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1203jjt [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
Because of the troll's regen? Or am I overlooking something?
Because of the regen, yes. HP regen == mana regen for Shaman. Frontal stun immunity is nice for soloing, but regen is vastly preferable until torpor is available. And if you're not soloing, frontal stun immunity is basically irrelevant.
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  #12  
Old 11-02-2012, 03:15 PM
1203jjt 1203jjt is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ferok [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
Because of the regen, yes. HP regen == mana regen for Shaman. Frontal stun immunity is nice for soloing, but regen is vastly preferable until torpor is available. And if you're not soloing, frontal stun immunity is basically irrelevant.
Point taken [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.] At least with regen, it's pretty much always working for you, whereas the stun is more situational...
  #13  
Old 11-02-2012, 03:22 PM
Ferok Ferok is offline
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Regen rates from: an old monkly business article

Level 1:
Troll/Iksar: 4pt sitting, 2pt standing
Other: 2pt sitting, 1pt standing

level 20:
Troll/Iksar: 6pt sitting, 2pt standing
Other: 3pt sitting, 1pt standing

level 50:
Troll/Iksar: 8pt sitting, 2pt standing
Other: 4pt sitting, 1pt standing

level 51:
Troll/Iksar: 12pt sitting, 6pt standing
Other: 5pt sitting, 2pt standing

level 56:
Troll/Iksar: 16pt sitting, 10pt standing
Other: 6pt sitting, 3pt standing


level 60:
Troll/Iksar: 18pt sitting, 12pt standing
Other: 7pt sitting, 4pt standing
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  #14  
Old 11-02-2012, 03:27 PM
Raavak Raavak is offline
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Monk and shaman is a great combo.
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  #15  
Old 11-02-2012, 03:31 PM
Ephirith Ephirith is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ferok [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
And if you're not soloing, frontal stun immunity is basically irrelevant.
You and your monk decide you want to camp Ass/sup, King, or frenzy in Guk. The monk is splitting most of the mobs and bringing them single, and your mana has no trouble keeping up with the pace of the pulling. Suddenly, either:

1. Root breaks, a mob runs, you try to root it but it resists
2. Monk botches a pull and brings 3-4 or more mobs
3. Adds out of nowheres.

As a shaman you need to CC the adds. You root 2 or 3 of them and slow the one the monk is killing. Guk has tight corridors so you can't really put space between you and the rooted mobs. You start trying to slow the rooted mobs when one of them breaks, runs over to you, and bashes you.

If you're a troll, you are stunned for a moment and your spell is interrupted.

If you're an ogre, the bash does not stun you, and you immediately proceed with what you are doing.

Every time a monk/shaman has multiple adds, the shaman will root them. When root breaks, the mobs rush the shaman and usually open with a bash. A bash will stun the troll. Maybe your monk is taking excessive damage from a spam-happy froglok wizard-- those seconds spent stunned add up to a significant difference in your ability to respond.

A troll's ability to regenerate will slightly increase their efficiency over time, but it will do almost nothing to get them through a tough situation where the shaman is dealing with mobs. At later levels, with a fungi tunic, regrowth, and perhaps torpor, racial regen becomes increasingly negligible while ogres still have the same innate advantage in situations where the shaman has to deal with CCing mobs or taking hits in a stressful situation.

I'm not trying to say troll is a poor choice, or that regen isn't beneficial. But it's going too far to say frontal stun immunity only helps when you're solo.
Last edited by Ephirith; 11-02-2012 at 03:39 PM..
  #16  
Old 11-02-2012, 03:40 PM
1203jjt 1203jjt is offline
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^Well put...ogres also don't have the xp penalty that trolls do...this is going to be a tough decision :/
  #17  
Old 11-02-2012, 03:42 PM
Ferok Ferok is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1203jjt [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
^Well put...ogres also don't have the xp penalty that trolls do...this is going to be a tough decision :/
15% (Ogre Shaman) vs 20% (Troll Shaman).

http://wiki.project1999.org/Shaman#E...nce_Statistics
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  #18  
Old 11-02-2012, 03:52 PM
Hailto Hailto is offline
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Play a barbarian; not looking like a fat blob is way more important. I've had no problem with stun/regen. Also, last time I checked the shaman that have progressed furthest on the solo challenge are all barbarians, its not game breaking.
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  #19  
Old 11-02-2012, 03:53 PM
Ferok Ferok is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ephirith [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
I'm not trying to say troll is a poor choice, or that regen isn't beneficial. But it's going too far to say frontal stun immunity only helps when you're solo.
But you'd agree it's mostly beneficial when you're solo.

Yes, you'll get bashed from time to time on a root break, resist, etc while grouped.

But lets break that down:
Alot of the time (esp in close quarters), you're sitting. Still stunned if Ogre? Not sure, but either way the impact to your response time is negligible.
Some of the time, you're not facing the mob. Still stunned if Ogre.
Some of the time, if you're not casting, you'll get kicked. Not stunned either way.
Some of the time, if you are casting, melee push interrupts your cast anyway.
Some of the time, bash misses. Not stunned either way.
And finally, the vast majority of the time, 2 seconds of stun doesn't make the difference between life and death.

So yes, it can be helpful in group situations, but would I trade that rare situation for additional hp every. waking. tick. Well, I did.
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  #20  
Old 11-02-2012, 04:06 PM
Furniture Furniture is offline
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Its a tough choice, really depends on your style of play. Being an ogre will save your life at times, as stated above there will no doubt be many situations where you get aggro and desperately need to get a spell off.

However the troll regen will be nice as it can give you some extra mana over time, but not that much.

At level 24 as a troll, when you get canni, it will take 5 tics (with the regen spell) to get enough hp for one cannibalize spell. In other words it will take 30 seconds of sitting to get enough hp for 1 canni spell

At level 24 as an ogre, when you get canni, it will take 7 tics (with the regen spell) to get enough hp for one canni spell, also means it will take 42 seconds of sitting to get enough hp for 1 canni spell.

This to me is not enough regen to merit it giving up the powerful ogre shaman who is perhaps one of the most powerful race/class combos in the game at end game here and throughout velious.

The benefits of the troll regen really shine in earlier levels, where you dont have that much hp to begin with

Its up to you how you want to play this out but imo the regeneration spell line is good enough to do what you need to do with cannibalize. You also will die less during the tough situations that will come up as mentioned above.
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