JBB, is it really that good?

[Evia]

Originally Posted by Snaggles [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It’s “free” sub 60 but with Torp it’s an opportunity cost. There are other things someone can do with that time. Like make more mana while waiting for dots and torp to run its course.

What people are failing to grasp is that time is a finite resource. Player clicks are often less than robotically perfect. Even if you could script the perfect rotation, which you can’t and it’s not legal anyways, I can’t imagine how you could fit in a JBB with efficiency. Simply look at Bane…it does 6x the damage and is a 3 second quicker cast. Torp heals for approximately 5x the DD of a JBB and is also a second quicker. This is math, not creative writing class…

If someone here can manipulate time and space I hope they are finding something better to do with that super power than sneaking in a 268dd click on an elf sim.

all the points you're making are not wrong, and make perfect sense in some scenarios
because sometimes using JBB can be a detriment if you should be casting or doing something else. i'd like to think most players can tell when its a good time to click or a bad time. Regardless its never a bad thing to have an extra tool in your toolbelt. Even if you don't use it often.
but with your explanation you fail to consider situations where a bane is overkill, or you don't need to torp or canni, or you cant canni because HP too low. There are so many situations where a free DD, even at 8 seconds, can come in handy and is the right move over something else that will drain your mana.

Some people do over rely on the jbb, or use it in bad situations just being lazy. but to just outright say its worthless or never worth the use just doesnt make sense to me. Gonna have to respectfully disagree on that.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Evia [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

all the points you're making are not wrong, and make perfect sense in some scenarios
because sometimes using JBB can be a detriment if you should be casting or doing something else. i'd like to think most players can tell when its a good time to click or a bad time. Regardless its never a bad thing to have an extra tool in your toolbelt. Even if you don't use it often.
but with your explanation you fail to consider situations where a bane is overkill, or you don't need to torp or canni, or you cant canni because HP too low. There are so many situations where a free DD, even at 8 seconds, can come in handy and is the right move over something else that will drain your mana.

Some people do over rely on the jbb, or use it in bad situations just being lazy. but to just outright say its worthless or never worth the use just doesnt make sense to me. Gonna have to respectfully disagree on that.

This is correct. That is a good summary.

Originally Posted by Snaggles [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Strawman and rage posting? Ok.

I’ve learned killing stuff with slower working dots and less debuffs is elite gaming. Thanks.

More rage posting and strawmanning.

It is clear you aren't trying to have a conversation. You haven't looked at the video/logs I posted for any reason other than to criticize. I have never claimed my playstyle is the absolute best in the game. I am sharing my experience with how hard fights have gone for me in the past. I have concrete evidence showing situations in which you can use JBB at level 60.

Thus far you have provided nothing to back up your position other than insults and proof that you don't read what other people post. I am not sure why you think you are going to convince anyone with these tactics.

[Ripqozko]

Kittens on kittens fighting, when will it end.

[greatdane]

Originally Posted by Kawhi [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

This whole thread is just about people with different death risk tolerances, right?

Like if you want to give yourself the best chances of dropping a rare mob with a guaranteed drop, you might want to make sure your health stays above X% at all times and it might make sense to JBB more.

If you're farming a common mob with a rare drop, then you probably want to churn through them faster and so you're going to dot and canni more.

Either option is fine depending on what risk/reward you are going for.

What am I missing?

It's basically a confusing conflict between people who think that class dynamics should be discussed either from the perspective of how that class functions at level 60 with all the possible assets available to you then, or the perspective of whatever level and gearing stage that OP described him/herself to be at. We have here a prime example of what's wrong with the P99 forum: some dude asked in July if it was worth it to get JBB when you're high enough level to use it, and then here we are in late September debating what is or isn't possible for a fully itemized level 60 shaman to do.

In any case, it's good craic.

[long.liam]

I get the feeling that a lot the people in this thread that are downplaying the JBB chose Iksar for their shaman. The cognitive dissonance of having chosen the so called "Master Race" for their shaman and it be a possible inferior option is too much for them. Not saying everyone that disagrees does but probably a lot do. I will say this though More DPS does not equal better. Some things said here are true, but only partial truths. Saying its better for the shaman to do this or that is true, but it also applies to casting bane of nife constantly. Bane of Nife costs 425 Mana to cast. You would have to cast canni 4, 5 times to get that mana back to cast again. That would do 740 dmg to the shaman. You then have to cast torpor to get that mana back. That's not including the time needed to cast other buffs, heal other players, heal the pet, any damage the shaman is taking from AEs, tanking. High level fights are delicate balance of resources. Anything that makes that easier is great. Not saying the JBB is always good, especially on NPCs that are immune to cold, but being able to DPS without using mana is awesome.

[Snaggles]

No page one discussion continues on page twenty-five of a thread. By that times it’s taken on a life of itself and it’s mostly red yarn and magazine clippings.

No sane person would ever downplay the functional advantage of a JBB vs not having one while leveling up. Even in your high 40’s with an epic and fungi it’s a huge advantage. It does lose steam in the mid 50’s with an epic and fungi. Can a shaman still solo to 60? Of course. I did after stubbornly not wanting to buy back my JBB for the 5th time or swapping over my Fungi. I got my epic af 60. It was stupidly easy to solo the shaman because the class is very good.

The issue I see on the forums is trying to get bumper sticker advice on a very nuanced game. Depending on play style, level, budget, end goal, all this crap varies wildly. Nobody asks specifics nor do we define them in our responses.

My big axe to grind was arguing you can’t functionally JBB while casting all your dots, torping, and using Canni. I’ve tried. Pages later to realize the big debate was assuming only Pox, JBB, and pet for dps (note: I never watched the video…) I’ve done this same thing in Chardok and it works fine that way even if not my preference. I always double debuff with Sini and Malady in that situation for less resists (mana wasted and lower dps) but to each their own.

[long.liam]

Originally Posted by Snaggles [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

No page one discussion continues on page twenty-five of a thread. By that times it’s taken on a life of itself and it’s mostly red yarn and magazine clippings.

No sane person would ever downplay the functional advantage of a JBB vs not having one while leveling up. Even in your high 40’s with an epic and fungi it’s a huge advantage. It does lose steam in the mid 50’s with an epic and fungi. Can a shaman still solo to 60? Of course. I did after stubbornly not wanting to buy back my JBB for the 5th time or swapping over my Fungi. I got my epic af 60. It was stupidly easy to solo the shaman because the class is very good.

The issue I see on the forums is trying to get bumper sticker advice on a very nuanced game. Depending on play style, level, budget, end goal, all this crap varies wildly. Nobody asks specifics nor do we define them in our responses.

My big axe to grind was arguing you can’t functionally JBB while casting all your dots, torping, and using Canni. I’ve tried. Pages later to realize the big debate was assuming only Pox, JBB, and pet for dps (note: I never watched the video…) I’ve done this same thing in Chardok and it works fine that way even if not my preference. I always double debuff with Sini and Malady in that situation for less resists (mana wasted and lower dps) but to each their own.

I think it's really a comparison between Bane of Nife and JBB. Pox is just okay. Only 19 DPS for Pox, less than half of what Bane does. Also you will have to cast Insidious Decay ontop of Malo/Malosini to ensure that it lands, Malo doesn't lower disease resistance. It's not huge problem to lower the diesease resistance, it's annoying to have another debuff to worry about, especially since it will only increase your DPS by a measly 19. The pet is great, bane is great, but expensive, especially if you get any resists.

[Snaggles]

I mostly agree with you. IMHO Pox and the JBB at 60 have use but a lot more fine print than Bane. I’ve ranted about it for pages already [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.] .

[Toxigen]

You can have JBB but you'll never have PD Robe. Hope this helps.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Toxigen [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You can have JBB but you'll never have PD Robe. Hope this helps.

Vindi BP better. Hope this helps.