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  #61  
Old 08-23-2017, 07:41 PM
Saludeen Saludeen is offline
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I mastered the bard class and it depends entirely on the player.

A bad bard can twist 2 buffs and do nothing but that or maybe melee.

A good bard can twist 3, switch instruments, and melee.

A great bard can twist 3 of the correct buffs even during downtime (mana regen, hp regen + 2x mana twitch - 4 songs total), mez or snare and even kite if they have to while keeping a mob charmed, attacking, and switching instruments and meleeing. Controlling your pet is also important like keeping it parked away from you and timing your break / recharm perfectly, but it all requires hotkeys. Its hard to imagine but its what I used to do in groups.

So if you're good at micro you can be a great bard and have lots of fun. Can't charm or mez in raids though.

Also, if you play a bard make macros for your abilities with /stopsong and /cast 1. That way you only have to press it once instead of double tap.
Last edited by Saludeen; 08-23-2017 at 07:49 PM..
  #62  
Old 08-23-2017, 08:44 PM
Triiz Triiz is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skarlorn [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
since when a challenge more difficult than mastery?

fucking KEK

also, this guy doesn't realize that bard haste doesn't stack with ENC haste, nor can bards charm monsters above the very low 50s.
Bard can charm up to 51, Enchanters can only charm up to 53 unless they are using level 60 Dictate with a fixed 48 second duration for 750 mana and a 5 minute recast.

It's not really the max charm level difference that makes Enchanter charm so much more powerful since it's not practical at all to use Dictate in 99% of scenarios. Enchanter with a lvl 48-49 pet would still be a lot more powerful than a bard with a 51 pet.
  #63  
Old 08-23-2017, 08:54 PM
Rivera Rivera is offline
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Lots of non-Bards arguing with Bards about how the Bard class works in this thread.

Lol.
  #64  
Old 08-24-2017, 12:30 AM
Arkanjil Arkanjil is offline
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This has been an interesting read....I love both classes, but BARD for life. Each has their place depending on the situation. As a bard, I always enjoy joining a group and cranking the efficiency up to 10. It feels like the world speeds up and the game quickens on the bard...I love it!

I'm a fan of both classes and each has their place. Can't live without the enc class...bards are nice but not always needed. They compliment each other well though!
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  #65  
Old 08-24-2017, 05:47 AM
Troxx Troxx is offline
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Bard charm is really only useful for solo killing and as a secondary means of crowd control. For crowd control it is both superior and inferior to simply mezzing. Properly used it takes a mob out of the equation AND adds their damage potential to the group's output. It's only partially inferior in that you have to wait for charm to break before you can then lock it back down. With mez you can relive prior to mez expiring.

Bard charm should not be compared to enchanter/druid/necro charm - it doesn't last long enough to warrant keeping it around. Buffing it is both pointless and dangerous as it will run loose every 3-4 ticks.

But solo? Lol it's so overpowered. Nothing like making two mobs beat on each other, doubling for 150 a pop while simultaneously twisting 40-50 dps in dots only to target swap and repeat the process on your old pet until both are dead. In the upper 50s that translates to a net dps (2x npc+ dots) of 140-180 sustained dps for the 2 hours it takes you to run out of mana. As charm breaks are exquisitely predictable you just settle into a rhythm without any real risk.

Unlike enchanters, bards have a unique level of power that is really hard to quantify in groups. Enchanter power and role is easily defined. In the roles of CC, haste buffs, and raw damage output (if charming), enchanter is the clear winner. A bard will provide less capability in each of these areas and is always stuck focusing attention on upkeep. If 5 mobs hit camp, group haste and buffs fall away. For the enchanter ... they can focus exclusively on crowd control while their buffs keep pushing the group along.

Bard class really excels only for those that know their song book, pay attention, and get creative. You have to not only know your class inside and out, you need the skill to use the knowledge. Great bards can pull off some insane shit and drop jaws, but an enchanter is generally going to add more total power to a balanced group. For the awkward group? Bards can do a wide enough range of jobs ... from healing to pulling to tanking to crowd control ... they can fill the gap for groups that aren't perfectly built to make the awkward not only viable but capable.

I've got a good lute - that's 42 stackable hp per tick regen (almost 3x fungi) along with 12 mana regen to all 6 members with just 2 songs.

Not that it's worth doing, but it is possible to maintain >70 dps in rolling dots (aoe and single target stacked) at 60 if focusing on nothing else. Not great, but capable.

Ench > bard in filling the role groups are usually seeking.
Bard situationally > ench in supporting the awkward group
Ench > bard for indoor, high level, or challenging solo
Bard >= ench for outdoor charm solo (kill speed, safety margin, mobility, down time) if played well.
Ench > bard for dps
Bard > ench for raw mana regen
Ench >>> bard in terms of ease to play
Ench >>>>>> bad bard in all areas
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  #66  
Old 08-24-2017, 06:46 AM
Jimjam Jimjam is offline
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Adding to your point for charm as CC, with something I have seen some bards do: Charm can be used to CC two mobs at once, and add both of their dps in favour of the group by pitting the first mob needing cc against the second (this happens while the group kills a third mob).

Note that bard is also far better at (circle) kite CCing than enc. Again, something I rarely see used but effective when done properly.
  #67  
Old 08-24-2017, 11:26 AM
Legidias Legidias is offline
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And in a raid or group situation where the puller gets just waaaay too many mobs, no one else in the game can hold down AE aggro and not die instantly like a bard. Rangers can weaponshield but cant grab aggro of so many mobs. Chanters could grab aggro with ae stun, but with higher lvl mobs they can resist and then chew up an enchanter.

This shouldnt happen really in a controlled pull, but sometimes mistakes happen. A monk or whoever pulls 15+ mobs that a raid or group cant handle. Clerics need to camp out but mobs would probably target sitters. Pop ae aggro song / dodge disc and now you have an extra 10 second buffer for clerics to camp and other people to aggro or CC freely. The best part is that it doesnt matter even if song is resisted or not, you'll still pull aggro over any healing or sitting.
  #68  
Old 08-24-2017, 12:52 PM
Triiz Triiz is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Troxx [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
Bard >= ench for outdoor charm solo (kill speed, safety margin, mobility, down time) if played well.
Bard charm soloing is definitely faster 1 mob vs 1 mob outdoors because of dots, but where an Enchanter really excels is having 2-4 mobs beating on their pet, killing pet with a lower level nuke, then recharming one of those 2-4 mobs and repeating. Granted, it's a lot easier to do in places like HS where mobs are bunched together, but it's doable in outdoor zones like DL as well.

While bard can go the solid 2+ hours without any downtime while charming, the 45+ minutes at the end of that it takes to regen all that mana at 2mana per tick sitting is just brutal if you're not in a zone that you can safely start travel song or hide, AFK, and walk away.

By far my least favorite part of leveling a bard 50-60 mostly charming was the super slow mana regen. It's a shame mana songs don't work on bards, would be so OP.
  #69  
Old 08-24-2017, 02:54 PM
Peacocky Peacocky is offline
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Bard hand down all the way. Did you ask for the most active class?, look no further. I know Enchanter inside-out with blindfold, played three times and one on Rallo Zek pvp and used to exploit every nook and cranny before many nerfed. Enchanter is a great class of it own.

Enchanter can be buff outside of group whereas a bard cannot so it is a great bonus plus for a group with additional buff within. I also played as a monk and would not want a group without a bard especially who can sing 4 songs at a time.

Also there is no song macro on p99 and those who are lazy bums with weak wrist should stay away from bard.

Amen.
  #70  
Old 08-24-2017, 03:22 PM
pogs4ever pogs4ever is offline
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bards are way better at fte on many encounters. An entire separate set of skills there.
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