Game Mechanics: Nerfing Insta-Click Hate Items (Classic Evidence)

[Rygar]

Originally Posted by Doctor Jeff [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The change you want has nothing to do with the patch notes you quoted.

If you want custom content you'll have to make your own server.

Its customized for P99 without question, but don't pretend the change has nothing to do with the patch note. Once again, the intention from original devs was to NOT make agro management easy for tanks in terms of procs and hate from spells (i.e. clickies). Nothing is easier than mallets really.

[Doctor Jeff]

The patch notes are very clearly regarding procs, which are not clickies.

[Rygar]

Originally Posted by Doctor Jeff [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The patch notes are very clearly regarding procs, which are not clickies.

I know you are trying to prove a point, but please re-read my follow up responses. I'm not doubting that, but the whole point of the proc nerf was to make tanking less trivial. My point is mallets and clickies make raid tanking completely trivial which is against the intention that message set forth for the class.

They even say it was entirely too easy to hold a mob's attention over 50. Raid tanking was never meant to be spam right click and watch netflix until mob dead.

[loramin]

Originally Posted by Doctor Jeff [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The change you want has nothing to do with the patch notes you quoted.

If you want custom content you'll have to make your own server.

Here's a question: do you actually know exactly how many "agro points" a mallet gave in 1999? Do you have any direct evidence yourself that the P99 values are classic? If not, how do you know that the "agro point" numbers on P99 are the same, ie. how do you know they are in fact "classic"? The P99 devs have certainly tried their hardest, but maybe there is no direct evidence and their current values are wrong. Certainly no one here remembers these items being as prevalent in classic times (which I admit proves nothing).

Maybe Rygar is trying to make the server more classic, and he's doing the best he can with indirect evidence since no one knows the classic "agro point" values, while you're actively working to keep it less classic. Or maybe he's wrong; that's totally possible and I certainly don't know. But I do know that anyone who has obviously put in time and effort to try and make this server better doesn't deserve to be insulted for wanting a custom server.

[Victorio]

Originally Posted by Rygar [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I know you are trying to prove a point, but please re-read my follow up responses. I'm not doubting that, but the whole point of the proc nerf was to make tanking less trivial. My point is mallets and clickies make raid tanking completely trivial which is against the intention that message set forth for the class.

They even say it was entirely too easy to hold a mob's attention over 50. Raid tanking was never meant to be spam right click and watch netflix until mob dead.

It's apples and oranges. They said that the proc hate and the proc rate made it trivial to hold aggro (without even using clickies.) Clearly that is not the case on p99.

[Rygar]

Originally Posted by Victorio [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It's apples and oranges. They said that the proc hate and the proc rate made it trivial to hold aggro (without even using clickies.) Clearly that is not the case on p99.

I don't completely understand what you are saying, are you saying it is hard on P99 to hold agro with procs only? Holding agro is very trivial on P99 when dealing with raid mobs because of the use of insta-agro clickies.

My point is they shouldn't be available trivialize agro management as the patch stated they implemented a nerf easy-mode agro management. If live devs saw P99 agro management, bet your ass a nerf would hit.

[Maner]

Originally Posted by Rygar [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I don't completely understand what you are saying, are you saying it is hard on P99 to hold agro with procs only? Holding agro is very trivial on P99 when dealing with raid mobs because of the use of insta-agro clickies.

My point is they shouldn't be available trivialize agro management as the patch stated they implemented a nerf easy-mode agro management. If live devs saw P99 agro management, bet your ass a nerf would hit.

There are probably a lot of things the developers from 1999 would change if they saw what people were doing today. The problem is it's not classic to make those assumptions and change it because you think it's what the devs would have done.

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Here's a question: do you actually know exactly how many "agro points" a mallet gave in 1999? Do you have any direct evidence yourself that the P99 values are classic? If not, how do you know that the "agro point" numbers on P99 are the same, ie. how do you know they are in fact "classic"? The P99 devs have certainly tried their hardest, but maybe there is no direct evidence and their current values are wrong. Certainly no one here remembers these items being as prevalent in classic times (which I admit proves nothing).

Maybe Rygar is trying to make the server more classic, and he's doing the best he can with indirect evidence since no one knows the classic "agro point" values, while you're actively working to keep it less classic. Or maybe he's wrong; that's totally possible and I certainly don't know. But I do know that anyone who has obviously put in time and effort to try and make this server better doesn't deserve to be insulted for wanting a custom server.

The problem is it's his job to find the agro values of the mallet on live and prove that they are different here. You're trying to use a strawman argument and make someone prove things should remain as they are. Indirect evidence isn't evidence it's an assumption or an opinion, therefore it proves nothing. Saying no one knows is just stupid though, instant clicks weren't nerfed in the patch mentioned so the argument is null.

Originally Posted by Rygar [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I don't completely understand what you are saying, are you saying it is hard on P99 to hold agro with procs only? Holding agro is very trivial on P99 when dealing with raid mobs because of the use of insta-agro clickies.

My point is they shouldn't be available trivialize agro management as the patch stated they implemented a nerf easy-mode agro management. If live devs saw P99 agro management, bet your ass a nerf would hit.

They literally nerfed the proc rate of some weapons meaning not all proc rates were the same. Not only that they said that proc rates increased as you leveled which also obviously isn't the case here. On p99 proc rates are all normalized. They also said the proc rates as they were made it too easy to hold agro, that is not the case on p99.

[teija]

Originally Posted by Maner [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

They don't show intent to fix instant clicks in any way actually... they are specifically talking about weapons procs... this isn't the "prove intent to nerf things they never actually nerfed" forum

I don't always agree with what Maner says but he is right here. The quote in the op specifically refers weapon "procs" not instant clicks. Confirmed classic as fuck, take your custom99 requests elsewhere.

[Rygar]

That feeling... When people just don't get it...

Once again (I'm sure it won't be for the last time), I'm saying that fix shows the intention for the class. They dId NOT want agro management to be trivial. If live had widespread abuse of insta clicks it would have been nerfed.

Funny how no one isn't crying about hoops not being classic these days yet are getting so salty over this.

[teija]

Originally Posted by Rygar [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

They dId NOT want WEAPON PROC to be trivial.

FTFY, Your OP is not even close to the same subject matter that you are trying to change. All these "bug reports" about things the creators "may" of wanted to changed years later is getting out of hand.