If you believe in god, you're an idiot...

[Harrison]

Originally Posted by Fists [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I also found it funny that when Harrison commented on Cthulu's usage of the -, he immediately stopped using it in following posts.

I used it every post after you fucking retard.

I even put it in quotations each time.

[Alawen Everywhere]

Originally Posted by Alawen Everywhere [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You should really consider reading Aristotle if you're going to have these kinds of discussions. The more brainy you try to present yourself, the stupider you look.

You're like a guy who saw an episode of "This Old House" hitting himself in the dick with a hammer.

You have latched onto one part of human communication (logic) and you're running around trying to wield it like an unstoppable hammer.

What you don't realize is that you completely lack the wisdom and reputation to effectively espouse your point of view. You have chosen to create a confrontational approach to this discussion and as a result, no one is on your side here. Not the Christians, not the faithful of other religions, not the atheists, not the agnostics.

You have also neglected to make any kind of emotional connection with your audience. Simply put, none of us are regarding you as a friend or a peer of any kind.

You come off as a kid who is pissed off that mom made him go to church. Now you want to tell everyone else what to do--basically the same thing that pissed you off.

You also apparently lack the foresight and life experience to realize that even if you spend the rest of your life having arguments like this one, it is highly improbable that you will affect the opinions of even a single person.

But feel free to keep yelling. Just don't expect to make any friends. As an alternative, you could try a little humility. You could try listening. You could try to understand.

[Alawen Everywhere]

Originally Posted by john_savage1982 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Not exactly the meaning of placebo effect but you highlight almost exactly what I am talking about. If a man has schizophrenia we tend to treat him as if his "delusions" aren't real and that the experience is related to a "problem" with a physical structure "the brain". If a person doesn't function in the same way as the majority then it's assumed there is something wrong that must be fixed. Further, any experiences related to definable problems must fall into the same category and is thus is also illegitimate.

What you're missing is religion isn't about the definable and the logical. You could create whatever explanation you want for why people shouldn't believe in things that don't appear to exist in our 5 senses but to do so would be to attack religion from an incompatible viewpoint. Religion is about the feeling of connecting with the outside. Outside the body and mind. For example - whether you recognize it or not, the type of faith involved in religion is no different then accepting that others have minds distinct from your own. How do you really know that outside your own mind that other humans possess the same sort of consciousness. Or, more basic, that the colors you see in your experience are the same colors that others see in their experience. It may be the same light wavelength but you don't know the experience of the other. This is exactly the heart of religion. Despite the uncertainty and perceived differences, people come together to profess believe in a common idea. This process connects people with the outside.


I still don't see why many of you have such faith in the ability for the state to create sound laws and why you have such faith in them to follow them. Why is murder illegal? Better yet, to what extent have you all studied the formation of the social contract? I have a feeling that many of you don't understand that your atheist moral system is actually grounded in very deep religious thought. Consider what your state (I use this in the abstract sense) has provided for you - education, language, culture, protection. I feel many of you take for granted the thousands of years of social development that led to the formation of states. If you spend enough time reading about the formation of modern states you might realize that religion is an integral part of the functioning of a state.


Lastly, atheism functions just like a religion. Instead of believing in the extra-worldly you believe in only the worldly. However, whether you want to admit it or not, you still take a leap of faith to accept that your senses are legitimate, that you aren't being somehow fooled by the natural world, and that science can somehow provide answers. What makes you believe your senses are real? Because they allow you to survive? Why live? What makes your existence as it is worthwhile?

Religion is about expanding your feelings to understand these sort of questions that aren't about figuring out how the physical world functions. This relates back to my original posts. There is a difference between understanding and feeling. They're different modes of thought. In my observations, atheist tend to overemphasize the importance of thought in comparison to feeling and in doing so entirely discount an entire aspect of being human.

Your ideas on the origins of western philosophy and civilization are off by a few hundred years. The Greeks were not Jewish or Christian. Your attempts to ask pre-Descartes philosophical questions are rather silly.

Okay, I just realized I hate this thread. Have fun with Philosophy for Dummies.

Dummies.

[Slade_the_Slide]

Originally Posted by john_savage1982 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

There is a word I currently use...for all of you...people. You people type in the same "I'm intelligent, I know things, I'm above religion, blah blah blah...I mock the world cause I'm insecure" tone yet most of you probably attended something like a second or third tier state college (or never attended college) and read book from people like Richard Dawkins while thinking "I'm so logical and above the rest and if people don't agree with me then they must be wrong." If you didn't attend college you've probably invented reasons like "I'm anti-establishment" to justify why you have any semblance of legitimate knowledge.

The funny part is while most of you denounce religion and go on about ideas of science/logic/evolution/whatever, most of you probably have just as vague idea about the intricacies of these subjects as you do about the intricacies of religion. This is perhaps the saddest part in all of this. The come back here will be "I have a degree in blah blah blah, I know things." All I will do is laugh if I see them.

There is a difference between religion and the organization/politics surrounding religion. Further, while you stand firm against religion, you might not realize that ideas of morality in the western world is strongly based in judeo-christian ethics. Call whatever your idea of morality whatever you want - it's likely most of these ideas are rooted in religion. Consider - why be moral? State will punish you if you don't? If you stop yourself from being immoral - what brings you to act correctly? What you call "I am in control of my mind, i do what is right, blah blah blah," I happen to call "indoctrination by the state." The stat ein return gets the indoctrinating ideas from religion.

Now, the word I call you folk. Neckbeards. You're all god dang neckbeards. Full of yourselves yet total idiots.

[IMG]http://pugetsoundblogs.com/bremertonbeat/files/2008/10

False.

1. While admittedly I went to a small university, that doesn't take away from it's educational merits. I majored in History

2. One doesn't need school to gain education. All the universities and such are there to show you put the time in the get a degree basically. The only person who can learn is yourself. They provide the tools, you do the rest. Thus, one can be very self taught, but that doesn't hold up when looking for a job really.

3. I don't see many atheists who are insecure at all. Most I know are very secure. While I don't believe in any divine being, I think if that is whatever comforts you at the end of the day, go for it. Just don't impose it on others

4. I can't really grow much of beard, plus neckbeards itch

5. Reality and delusion are opposites. I'd rather live in reality, or as close as one can get, than to be in a happy delusion, no matter how comforting it may seem.

[Humerox]

Originally Posted by Harrison [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I used it every post after you fucking retard.

I even put it in quotations each time.

He meant Cthulu bro.

I noticed it too, lol.

[Fists]

Harrison brother, Humerox is right! I was talking to Cthulu! No need to be so hasty on the defense!

[chtulu]

You guys are just so bull-headed.

[boboo]

Originally Posted by chtulu [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You guys are just so bull-headed.

Funny thing is agree on most of your points, but you shoot yourself in the foot by saying if you beleive in god youre an idiot. (I hadnt noticed u were the one to start the thread). I think organized religion is transparently false, but take someone like my father. He beleives in something, some life after death, some life energy that makes us conscient past death, but not organized religion.

The point is, who the fuck knows if the visible universe is not some experiment in some unimaginably complex creature's beaker? You seem to stray too close to religious dogmatism yourself.

[chtulu]

Originally Posted by boboo [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Funny thing is agree on most of your points, but you shoot yourself in the foot by saying if you beleive in god youre an idiot. (I hadnt noticed u were the one to start the thread). I think organized religion is transparently false, but take someone like my father. He beleives in something, some life after death, some life energy that makes us conscient past death, but not organized religion.

The point is, who the fuck knows if the visible universe is not some experiment in some unimaginably complex creature's beaker? You seem to stray too close to religious dogmatism yourself.

That doesn't answer any questions though, it's just a circular argument. If something that complex made this universe, what made that complex entity?

[boboo]

Originally Posted by chtulu [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

That doesn't answer any questions though, it's just a circular argument. If something that complex made this universe, what made that complex entity?

Who the fuck knows, thats my point.