Stop the Socking

[Daldaen]

http://www.project1999.com/forums/sh...8&postcount=41

Derubael wants us to stop the socking. What do you mean exactly?

As it stands to get FTE and stand a chance on most FFA mobs you need 1 mage 1 tagger minimum. If you don't consider this socking, then make a rule only 2 players allowed in zone when it spawns otherwise disqualified.

On certain mobs, to even stand a chance to get FTE with the current raidscape you need to sock.

Venril Sathir and Trakanon being the primary examples.

VS will have 2 trackers (1 Mage and 1 war/cleric/enchanter) plus several at entrance. Everyone that competes on this does it with a warrior wielding a Bladestopper who stalls (aka tanks and does 0 DPS to stay alive long enough til a raid force is there). This usually means you have a full group in zone. (Mage, cleric x 2, warrior x2-3, enchanter) This isn't a single guild doing it, it's multiple, and if you don't you stand no chance to kill VS.

Trakanon is even worse. They have 2 Mages down at poop mountain entire window ready to CotH down more Mages who then CoTH down more people, it's a big old sock fest and guilds without 2 Mages living on poop mountain stand no chance.

I feel like this is a simple fix. 2 in zone when it spawns, whether they be 2 trackers, a tracker and a tagger, or 2 taggers. Anything over that, is immediately unable to kill the mob. Anyone found socking outside the zone would also be disqualified. Aka don't set up your Trak CotH group at the orb or your VS CotH group in DL.

[arsenalpow]

Not to rain on your parade but you're asking the hardcore raiders to fundamentally change the way they raid, and to completely change the culture of high end raiding that's been prevalent since the genesis of p99.

It's always an arms race and the fuel for this has always been the staff/devs who have plainly stated that they want to see competition. It's hard to have that platform and expect anything different from the playerbase. I don't personally subscribe to that playstyle but if you give a player the leeway he's going to do anything he can to maximize his pixel intake.

The alternative to this is the current class R rotation. We've successfully adopted a culture that's a complete 180 from how raiding on this server typically has been. Remove the FFA component, let class C gouge each other's eyes out if they want, and let the rest of the server rotate content so everyone can experience high end Everquest raiding.

[Daldaen]

Can remove FFA if they want sure.

But that won't reduce poopsocking. Since it isn't generally Class R guilds doing that, though it sometimes is. Their eye gouging will just continue to be poop socking which will lead to longer variance which is retarded and not classic.

Something to make the poopsocking dissipate and the variance to be reduced would be ideal. No one wants to have shifts tracking for 96 hours again. That's dumb... Very very dumb.

I understand that the grey areas and limits of every rule will be pushed until a punishment is handed out and a line is drawn in the sand.

2 players in zone seems pretty clear. And punishment can pretty easily be handed out for breaking such a simple rule.

If you reduce variance enough limiting people to 2 per zone of tracking won't be a huge hindrance, people won't sock since many targets are spawning in overlapping windows which will spread people out and reduce petitions.

[arsenalpow]

Originally Posted by Daldaen [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Can remove FFA if they want sure.

But that won't reduce poopsocking. Since it isn't generally Class R guilds doing that, though it sometimes is. Their eye gouging will just continue to be poop socking which will lead to longer variance which is retarded and not classic.

Something to make the poopsocking dissipate and the variance to be reduced would be ideal. No one wants to have shifts tracking for 96 hours again. That's dumb... Very very dumb.

I understand that the grey areas and limits of every rule will be pushed until a punishment is handed out and a line is drawn in the sand.

2 players in zone seems pretty clear. And punishment can pretty easily be handed out for breaking such a simple rule.

If you reduce variance enough limiting people to 2 per zone of tracking won't be a huge hindrance, people won't sock since many targets are spawning in overlapping windows which will spread people out and reduce petitions.

I honestly wish it were as easy as you want it to be, but consider some of these points.

-players camped in zone to avoid the footrace from the other zoneline, how is that policed?

-players bound in zone to avoid the footrace, how is that policed?

Each new wrinkle you add only complicates the amount of fraps/logs that must be kept to keep everyone playing nicely. The new rules themselves only moved the sock to the zoneline, it didn't change how people are actually playing the game.

[Daldaen]

Originally Posted by arsenalpow [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I honestly wish it were as easy as you want it to be, but consider some of these points.

-players camped in zone to avoid the footrace from the other zoneline, how is that policed?

-players bound in zone to avoid the footrace, how is that policed?

Each new wrinkle you add only complicates the amount of fraps/logs that must be kept to keep everyone playing nicely. The new rules themselves only moved the sock to the zoneline, it didn't change how people are actually playing the game.

Aren't those two things currently prevented? You may not bind in zone and gate to Naggy or Vox anymore and you can't camp on or near the raid spawn so everyone camps at the zone in.

I'm sure there are new wrinkles. But they seem keen on stopping poopsocking sooner rather than later. And they don't appear to want to remove raid windows entirely and replace them with weekly simulated respawns... So limiting to 2 in zone as opposed to 2 at target and allowing for some banhammering if people attempt to skirt the rules by chilling at zone lines, would make for a better environment.

One that may be agreeable by all parties. Where as your complete rotation idea is obviously utopian and Class C will never concede to it.

[arsenalpow]

Originally Posted by Daldaen [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Aren't those two things currently prevented? You may not bind in zone and gate to Naggy or Vox anymore and you can't camp on or near the raid spawn so everyone camps at the zone in.

I'm sure there are new wrinkles. But they seem keen on stopping poopsocking sooner rather than later. And they don't appear to want to remove raid windows entirely and replace them with weekly simulated respawns... So limiting to 2 in zone as opposed to 2 at target and allowing for some banhammering if people attempt to skirt the rules by chilling at zone lines, would make for a better environment.

One that may be agreeable by all parties. Where as your complete rotation idea is obviously utopian and Class C will never concede to it.

You're right, those two things are currently disallowed, and by having two coth mages you usually see exactly who's cothed in, you see a spell message, you see the soandso mystical portal crap. However, without those coth mages you don't know where the FTE person came from and you'd need ways to police those things.

[kotton05]

Originally Posted by arsenalpow [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Not to rain on your parade but you're asking the hardcore raiders to fundamentally change the way they raid, and to completely change the culture of high end raiding that's been prevalent since the genesis of p99.

It's always an arms race and the fuel for this has always been the staff/devs who have plainly stated that they want to see competition. It's hard to have that platform and expect anything different from the playerbase. I don't personally subscribe to that playstyle but if you give a player the leeway he's going to do anything he can to maximize his pixel intake.

The alternative to this is the current class R rotation. We've successfully adopted a culture that's a complete 180 from how raiding on this server typically has been. Remove the FFA component, let class C gouge each other's eyes out if they want, and let the rest of the server rotate content so everyone can experience high end Everquest raiding.

FFA isn't going away, unlike that ct you lost. Also before this stupid camp at ent and coth Mage shit. FE and TMO would just have 1 tracker. Then fastest to log in won. Was a lot less work. A lot more doable by guilds like most class r. I say we get rid of most the rules. The only rules we need is no long da stall, honor FTE and no kiting.

[arsenalpow]

Originally Posted by Ella`Ella [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

P99 needs fewer rules. The more rules you've created the less creativity there is for overcoming 'competition' and more creativity in rule lawyering the grey area.

Originally Posted by kotton05 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

FFA isn't going away, unlike that ct you lost. Also before this stupid camp at ent and coth Mage shit. FE and TMO would just have 1 tracker. Then fastest to log in won. Was a lot less work. A lot more doable by guilds like most class r. I say we get rid of most the rules. The only rules we need is no long da stall, honor FTE and no kiting.

And there you have it, hardcore raiders advocating zero regulation so we can go back to the days of 1-2 guilds steamrolling all the content.

[kotton05]

Originally Posted by arsenalpow [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

And there you have it, hardcore raiders advocating zero regulation so we can go back to the days of 1-2 guilds steamrolling all the content.

You're more than wrong. Keep those blinders on.

[Magnar]

Originally Posted by arsenalpow [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It's always an arms race and the fuel for this has always been the staff/devs who have plainly stated that they want to see competition.

Then the staff needs to stop creating convoluted raid rules that have too many loopholes and exploitations and just let people go all out. Either lay the hammer down and come up with something concrete that is fair to EVERYONE, not just 2 big kids playing in the sandbox while everyone else has to watch, or just let everyone go at it like the savages they truly are, spreading trains, killsteals, and everything else.

What is the point of the competition? As someone who has been in that special sandbox, it's f*cking pointless and not fun at all. Ya, sure, getting gear is great, but it makes you feel like a real sack of crap when you're watching rare loot get destroyed that you know someone else could use, just because they're under a different tag.

This isn't a job, no one is making any money off of this. Rogean has thrown the gauntlet down on anyone who even ATTEMPTS to make a coin off his server. Hell, he barely covers the expenses to run it through donations, and most of his staff doesn't even play here, but they work on it to provide something for others, because their passions was the programming side and figuring out whether or not they could do it. Well, they did it, but immature attitudes from the playerbase, particularly the raid scene, is just destroying what they've worked so hard to create because people want to throw tantrums over a damned digital dragon and who made contact first?

If you took all of the raid suspensions from each major guild, each kill they've gotten, and everything else and put it all into a spreadsheet, I guaran'damn'tee you it will come out pretty f*cking even, with the exception being smaller, upstart guilds being completely squashed at every turn when they're trying to gear up with planar trash drops.

Server numbers may visually appear to be somewhat steady, but look around the raid scene. People are constantly quitting because of the horrible conditions of that social aspect of the game. Most of the 'does not drop anymore' loot is locked into characters that don't even log in anymore, the server's only Ton Po's staff is stuck on a guy permabanned for cheating because of this ass backwards raid system. That right there should have been a HUGE red flag that something was totally wrong with how things are being ran, from both sides of the field.

Rogean has said time and time again he and a lot of the staff do not play here, which is totally respectable because it gives a totally unbiased view when dealing with GM matters, but quite honestly and with total respect (as sometimes things are lost in the tone of the internet, and want to make it clear I'm just posting this as a discussion statement and not trying to belittle the staff in any way), I think it puts you in a position to really not know what calls to make in regards to the raid scene on the server. It's a whole different experience to be part of the raid spending hours behind the view of a character, constantly interacting with your own guild and their rivals.

The current version of the competition aspect doesn't add anything to the server other than more issues for the staff to deal with, so why bring more issues on yourselves?