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Old 05-06-2014, 01:54 PM
ZawrTheMonarch ZawrTheMonarch is offline
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Default A question about Bards

At the later levels, do Bards run into issues in terms of certain songs not stacking with other class abilities? For example, do songs which increase a groups haste, mana, and health regen stack? What about debuffs like our slow line? I guess basically what I'm asking is if we get into a group with a Shaman or Enchanter, are we offering anything else or adding onto their buffs or are we just killing our wrists twisting for no reason?

Thanks for any help!
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Old 05-06-2014, 02:33 PM
Loke Loke is offline
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Part of what differentiates a good bard from a mediocre bard is having the knowledge of other classes abilities so that you can best compliment them. There is always something you can be doing to increase the effectiveness of the group, if someone else is doing one of the things you're doing, stop doing that thing and start doing something else. Unless you're in a group with a bunch of other bards, there will always be some other song you can rotate in.
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Old 05-07-2014, 01:22 AM
Kekephee Kekephee is offline
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It's a real pain in the ass having to constantly keep track of who's in your group and what buffs they're handing out so you can modify your twist accordingly

But that's what we signed up for
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Every song I play is actually just me screaming the 1812 Overture in a raspy, shrieking falsetto.
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Old 05-12-2014, 07:40 PM
Tann Tann is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZawrTheMonarch [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
At the later levels, do Bards run into issues in terms of certain songs not stacking with other class abilities? For example, do songs which increase a groups haste, mana, and health regen stack? What about debuffs like our slow line? I guess basically what I'm asking is if we get into a group with a Shaman or Enchanter, are we offering anything else or adding onto their buffs or are we just killing our wrists twisting for no reason?

Thanks for any help!
The haste portion of the group songs will not stack with enc/shm spells but the other stats the song has will.

Mana/health regen songs will stack with all other types.

Slows will not stack and the enc/shm one will override yours (mostly), I always found it good practice to get a pre-slow on the mob until the enc/shm landed theirs.

Enc/Shm in group? I'd still play mana/health songs and haste because of the extra stat increases. Toss in psalm of _____ when needed and everyone is happy.
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Old 08-01-2014, 09:03 PM
Klapton Klapton is offline
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I wish I could find "Krescendo's Haste Guide" from the old eqdiva site. I can't remember if the stackable haste songs were added with later expansions, or which expansions they were. But there was "regular haste" that did NOT stack with other haste, "Bard Haste" that DID stack with other haste, and then there was "Bard Overhaste" that allowed you to break the "haste cap."

Hopefully I will relearn all this stuff again. I'm just getting started here, and its amazing how much stuff I forgot.
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Old 08-02-2014, 01:46 AM
Rhambuk Rhambuk is offline
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Quote:
Krescendo's Haste Guide
Formula[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]Spell Haste,type v1) + (Item Haste, type v0) + (Bard Stacking Haste--No cap raiser, type v2) + (Bard Stacking Haste--Cap raiser, type v3)

Types of Haste:

Permanent Item Haste (Flowing Black Silk Sash or FBSS) Tribute haste also falls in this catigory.

Spell Haste (INCLUDES most Songs--Anthem de Arms, INCLUDES right clickity items--Lute of the Howler, Procs--Dance of the Blade from Singing Short Sword)

Bard Stacking Haste --No cap raiser (Er Vaj Line)

Bard Stacking Haste --Cap raiser(Vah Shir/Rizlona's Line)**possibly the Ranger AA Guardian of the Forest? Don't know the %**

Bow Haste (its 1/3 the weight reduction on quivers, stacks with everything and is useless to bards---only applies to firing arrows)
While this may be a 'haste' I really suspect, having a quiver in inventory just does this: (bow deley x (100%-(weight redux%/3)))....ie 36 delay bow, fleeting quiver with 60% arrow weight reduction 36 x (100%-(60%/3)) = 29


Some Monk (epic?) proc that there is an argument over whether it stacks or not. **Edit--evidently not, it is regular spell haste, but, perhaps some stat bonuses associated with it do stack? **

Rules:

You may have one from each category. The highest % Haste in each category takes effect.

These are added up to your 'cap'. (see the cap chart below)

One cap raiser can be used to 'raise your cap'.

Instruments, if appropriate, and AMP (voice) affect any stat bonuses only....Haste % is NOT affected by the use or non-use of Amp/Instruments (Er Vaj requires a brass instrument to be equipped).

Examples:

A level 20 bard is singing 7-Jonathan's Whistling Warsong, 20% self-only haste. He twists in 10-Anthem de Arms, 10% haste.

The bards haste is 20% (his self-only is higher than the anthem 10%), the rest of the group is 10% hasted. The STATS from both songs, since they are 'stacking' are added together but the HASTE DOES NOT.

Note: Not all Bard Hastes with stat bonuses stack...see Reed's. If you get an icon for both, the stat bonuses should stack...the HASTE DOES NOT. For instance bard, bard hastes with an AC buff component, do not stack with each other. However, Jonathans and Anthem will, because only Jonathan's has the AC component. In addition, it appears a DS component in the Haste will keep it from stacking (Rhondo and Zek do not stack).

Same circumstances, chanter casts 30% haste on each member of the entire group. The entire group is now at 30%, taking the higher of the two spell hastes.

Same deal, bard buys and equips FBSS.

Bard haste is now 50% (30% chanter haste plus 21% FBSS, but limited to 50% because of level haste cap).

Level 58 Bard:

-Wearing Silver Chitin Handwraps 22% permanent item Haste.
-This bard has Lute of the Howler 40% right clickity haste--he has clicked it and is in werewolf form.
-He has a Troubadors Mace in off hand (brass instrument)
-he sings 54-Celerity, 45% spell haste
-he sings 50 Melod of Er Vaj, 5% bard stacking haste (requires a brass instrument, but remember the Troubador's Mace)
-he sings Battlecry of Vah Shir, 15% Stacking and cap raising Haste (brass not required)

Bard total haste:

SCHW 22% + Lute of the Howler 0% (trumped by celerity)+ Celerity 45% + Er Vaj 5% + Battlecry of the Vah Shir, 15%
= 87%

Same circumstances, but a chanter has cast a 60% haste on the bard and he is wearing a Cloak of Flames 36% Perma Haste as well as the SCHW.

Bard total Haste:

SCHW 0%(trumped by CoF) + CoF 36% + LotH 0% + Celerity 0%(trumped by chanter) + Chanter Spell 60%+ Er Vaj 5% + Battlecry 15%

= 116%.....NOOO!
= 109%....cap is 94 plus the battle cry 15% = 109%.

Btw, since Celerity was wasted...a good choice would have been McVaxius Rousing Rhondo...the 21% Spell haste would have been wasted, but still holding the brass Trouby Mace, there would have been a nice, stacking STAT boost (which also stack with LotH).

I have seen it argued, that the Vah Shir line does, in no way add haste, it just raises the cap...I dunno...most things I have seen and experienced tend to indicate it does, but 15% addl haste at 80 ish is kinda hard to track, and I'm not gonna parse it. Also, there is information out there relating to when Vah Shir line was bugged and would actually slow you if another haste was not in place. That has been fixed.


CLEAR AS MUD, eh?





I saw a perhaps, more concise, explanation on the new site which I have pilferred and placed here:

by Astuce999

There are 4 versions of haste.
For every type of haste, only the highest percentage haste
is applied. The other stats granted by an ability are still in
effect, which is usually what skews people's perception of how
haste works.

v0 == item haste (again Tribute falls into this category)
v1 == icon haste (songs, spells, right-clicks)
v2 == ervaj line of songs type haste
v3 == vah shir / rizlona's / ranger AA type haste

v0 + v1 + v2 (equal or less then) 100 percent haste.

v3 may go over 100 percent haste. v3 doesn't only increase
the cap, it actually grants that percentage of haste as well.

The Ervaj line of songs have an AC component, and this is why
it does not stack with the Psalms.

If you have your epic, or warsong of zek, the shaman line of
haste spells (bst too) will do nothing. The icons will stack, but
since shammy haste only grants haste, there will be no actual
effect.

The enchanter line of haste spells, grants additional stats. The
one I relish the most is the attack bonus. The agi is nice too.
Therefore even if you do have 10 other types of hastes going
on, you will see an increase in hit rate and damage, which may
be misconceived as increased haste if you don't see your
misses.

Both Warsong of Zek and the epic proc Dance of the Blade
have attack/str bonuses. As with enchanter haste spells,
getting all those up is worth it because it will increase your
damage output. The weapons Nature's Melody and Siren Song
also have similar effects (as epic), and it is worth getting as
many up as possible to increase DPS without ever actually
increasing the haste.

The best way I found to explain this to people in game is to
use things they know. In this case it means item haste. It is
very rare that I find someone who thinks item haste stacks
with itself, so it's a good starting ground. I ask them if I have
a cloak of flames, and a RBB, how much haste would I be at?

They answer CoF because only the higher haste is applied.
I answer, does that mean that the RBB is useless? They say
no, that the other stats RBB has are still good to have. I
then tell them that they know how spell haste works now, and
after about 2 mins they agree.

'Stuce


Reinnhart's Charts

I believe melee haste caps are:

Level 01 - 30: 50%
Level 31 - 50: 74%
Level 51 - 55: 84%
Level 55 - 59: 94%
Level 60 - 65: 100%.

Add V3 cap raisers--10% Warsong, 15% Forpar (LDoN), 25% Warcry, 30% Zek/Rizlona's/Muse (none stack with each other)
Now this is a fairly old guied but alot of it still applies.

?
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  #7  
Old 08-02-2014, 02:09 AM
Kekephee Kekephee is offline
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sweet jesus
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Kekephee Souphanousinphone
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Every song I play is actually just me screaming the 1812 Overture in a raspy, shrieking falsetto.
  #8  
Old 08-02-2014, 02:10 AM
Kekephee Kekephee is offline
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Quote:
The best way I found to explain this to people in game is to
use things they know. In this case it means item haste. It is
very rare that I find someone who thinks item haste stacks
with itself, so it's a good starting ground. I ask them if I have
a cloak of flames, and a RBB, how much haste would I be at?

They answer CoF because only the higher haste is applied.
I answer, does that mean that the RBB is useless? They say
no, that the other stats RBB has are still good to have. I
then tell them that they know how spell haste works now, and
after about 2 mins they agree.

The Jesus Socrates of Elf Sim, spinning parables and dialectics to enlighten the ignorant masses
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Kekephee Souphanousinphone
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Every song I play is actually just me screaming the 1812 Overture in a raspy, shrieking falsetto.
  #9  
Old 08-02-2014, 02:23 PM
Klapton Klapton is offline
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Hooray! You found it!!!

Now if you could find my best tutorial: "Anatomy of a Train: A Newbie Guide to Aggro and Pulling" ...

I did find the Project 1999 Wiki, which does have a decent explanation of Haste:

http://wiki.project1999.com/Haste_Guide

I noticed that the "above haste cap" songs did not exist until Luclin.

.
  #10  
Old 08-11-2014, 06:10 PM
astuce999 astuce999 is offline
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Klapton from EQdiva way back when?

This is Astuce from there! (yes those are my guides you guys are quoting)
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