Spells: Shaman DoTs Not Stacking Correctly

[Castle]

Another piece of convincing evidence. Earliest page is archived Jun 7th 2002. Only speaks about Vanilla through Velious. No luclin.

http://web.archive.org/web/200206071...ollshaman.html

What spells should I use in PvP?


Your spell load out depends on your opponent, but you should always have at least one escape spell memmed. Spirit of Cheetah (SoW if you’re below 24) and Gate are reccomended. I have both memmed when I’m traveling or paranoid.

If there are people out looking for you, it should be assumed they are prepared with generic magic/fire/cold resistances. When attacking prepared opponents, go with disease debuffs, disease spells and direct damage. If they are resisting the disease spell, keep slamming away at the disease debuff – it’s fast casting and will eventually stick on even the most resistant players. Below level 40, few players have good poison resist, so you may want to give poison a shot as well. At level 50, I like to stack two disease dots on them (scourge + plague).

The evidence is overwhelming.

[gloinz]

Originally Posted by Castle [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Another piece of convincing evidence. Earliest page is archived Jun 7th 2002. Only speaks about Vanilla through Velious. No luclin.

http://web.archive.org/web/200206071...ollshaman.html


The evidence is overwhelming.

not admissible in court
Jun 7th 2002.

[Castle]

not admissible in court
Jun 7th 2002.

Actually bro.. If it was created on or after June 7th 2002, it would make my argument even stronger (though I don't know if this is possible.)

Imagine...
July 24, 2002 - Patch - Necro dots still won't stack inferior and superior from the same line
June 7, 2002 - BAM Shaman DoTs of the same resist-check be stackin'. Obviously... this would prove to further emphasize Shamans were doing it all along and nothing was changed on 2002 in regards to Shamans if it was changed for Necros. Once again he said "still not stack" so it meant the necros never stacked. Not that it matters because the server will only go through Velious... what the guide goes through - Vanilla through Velious, levels 1-60. Obviously, it was written during Velious, prior to the July 24, 2002 patch.

This is me victory dancing to dubstep, brah
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LXO-jKksQkM

Honestly, the evidence is overwhelming, another nail in the coffin is nice, but I think the point has been belabored to the point of over-saturation. To deny all Shaman DoTs didn't stack is just bias, or something else talking.

[melkezidek]

Dot Stacking of the same type did not happen untill after SOV came out. Everything you are listing is likely from that time line.

However I do remember shamans having 1 spell that was considered unique and did stack giving them 1 extra dot.

[Castle]

Melkezidek, gonna have to put up some proof on that because Uthgaard said that

'but I remember this!'

Is not good enough. I can give plenty of anecdotes too *shrug*

[tradebot]

I leveled up my shaman on p99 stacking Affliction+Scourge+Poison DoT.

[Darwoth]

changing my mind on this, one of the better shamans (yes, classic era) on RZ told me this........

Most of the shaman on RZ/SZ were trash. I use to drop plague and scourge on people all the time because ebolt was resisted all the time.

so if he says they stacked then they did, i just never ran into anyone doing it.

[Cwall]

anecdote of an anecdote

must be legit cause they cancel each other out

[Castle]

anecdote of an anecdote

must be legit cause they cancel each other out

Anecdote (based on memory 12 years after the fact by biased people)
versus
Anecdote (written down during the period as it was going on by unbiased people)

Yep, I think we know which one is more legit [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[DarthPeon]

Originally Posted by Castle [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Actually bro.. If it was created on or after June 7th 2002, it would make my argument even stronger (though I don't know if this is possible.)

Imagine...
July 24, 2002 - Patch - Necro dots still won't stack inferior and superior from the same line
June 7, 2002 - BAM Shaman DoTs of the same resist-check be stackin'. Obviously... this would prove to further emphasize Shamans were doing it all along and nothing was changed on 2002 in regards to Shamans if it was changed for Necros. Once again he said "still not stack" so it meant the necros never stacked. Not that it matters because the server will only go through Velious... what the guide goes through - Vanilla through Velious, levels 1-60. Obviously, it was written during Velious, prior to the July 24, 2002 patch.

This is me victory dancing to dubstep, brah
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LXO-jKksQkM

Honestly, the evidence is overwhelming, another nail in the coffin is nice, but I think the point has been belabored to the point of over-saturation. To deny all Shaman DoTs didn't stack is just bias, or something else talking.

While you provide decent evidence of Blart suggesting shaman dot stacking in a post circa 2002 that does not negate the fact that these same exact spells did not stack when a necro cast them. The spell IDs are the same in the code, yet coming out of the shaman they somehow magically stack as opposed to coming out of the Necro? This matter can be resolved by current devs with access to spell files showing if this feature can be custom flipped on and off on the same Spell ID - without creating two separate Plague spells (for example) on a Necro and Shaman. Separate versions of the spells in question did not exist.

Further more, dot messages wearing off did not come until much later and that means people were unaware their higher level dots were over writing their lower level dots, they assumed as much because both spells landed. Yes there could very well be that many bad players that you quoted out of the ~500k that ended up playing.

Here is something for you to consider since the focus has shifted to a notable shaman documenting that they stacked. Even a good player highly versed in their class can be wrong:

Charisma remained misunderstood for years after classic release. During the era great enchanters, bards (Zamtil and company, Thott) - players that accomplished many more things on a pve server for optimal raid performance and min-maxing pve encounters in general (in relation to Blart and his lack of number crunching accomplishments) claimed that more charisma equated to longer charms. These players were in the top raiding guilds like Fires of Heaven and Afterlife. Years later data showed that it only affects the initial charm resist check and has no bearing on charm duration, and still today it is a misunderstood concept.

There are many more examples of things like this prevalent throughout eq history, but i digress.

So this is where we stand:

1) We have an official everquest dev post stating inferior dots do not stack with superior dots (the word "still" can be interpreted and coaxed out from the patch notes since by deduction it was not a feature taken away at that point).

2) We are in agreement that necro/druid dots of the same line do not stack.

3) And I hope we are in agreement that even notable players or experts throughout history can be at wrong, regardless of the subject.

If the same spell ID is used for two separate classes, I predict any change to the spell would immediately show up on both classes due to the way the code works. If so, this negates the fact that Necros could not stack but yet shaman somehow could. Or else separate spell IDs of the same exact would have been required - essentially creating two new spells of the same name.

I am for classic on this issue. Nothing more, nothing less.

Cheers