Class Experience Penalties

[Jereziah]

Very well could be Halladar, but no one's outlined it sufficiently to walk away from the post yet. I also fear that hatred towards the thread in general could simply encourage a dev to state it's client-side, who knows if it's true or not though.

[Aeolwind]

Originally Posted by Jereziah [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

That's the first post you've made that provides any reason at all as to why you guys aren't in support of this. Prior to this it's been simply your opinion.

So from this, I gather that you're saying code-wise, it's too difficult for you to make these changes? If that's the case, there's quite literally nothing we can do and continuing to discuss it would be futile. I just hope you're not lying to end the post as there's a lot of people here that support you guys, don't take that for granted.

As I thought everyone was already distinctly aware, changes to the client file EXE's is absolutely forbidden by Sony. Just like we can't control when you get meditate or other skills (IE Level 1) we can control if the server will send you any skill up ticks or not. But you can still spend those points cause the client says you can. Like we can remove bash from clerics in the DB, but when you turn 16, it will still be in the trainer, it will still give you a button, and you'll still be able to bash.

We left Kedge open for extra space for upper levels. And the compass can either be turned off, or you could code your UI to not display it by default.

But stuff like Soulbinders being removed were a HUGE debate that we don't regret removing. Other things like item links the debate wasn't so huge as it was rather incidental and inconsequential. It's impact on gameplay was minimal and only manged to save people typing time. Compare the time savings in say a soulbinder to a item link. Or compare that same time savings to the experience penalty or translocator despawns. A typing time sink is irrelevent compared to the real time sinks that were built into the game or the interation requirements that are called forth by the lack of soul binders. In other words:

Item links while not classic have limited/no impact on game play. Other things that do have impact on game play, like compass/sense heading we are limited in our options for resolution due to the client issues. In general, the rule is exert control where possible, don't sweat the small crap, and try to keep it on course. Considering we work for free & the limitations in skill, time & client usage, I'd give us a A, possibly a B+ on execution.

[Danth]

The penalty shouldn't go away in a group, it's just supposed to be shared. I don't know where some folks get the notion that the additional experience was drawn out of nowhere. Perhaps they can provide links? As described by Sony, penalized classes (not just hybrids--hybrids merely had the highest penalty, not the only one) simply received more experience per kill in a group. Even if you divide that 40% against the entire group, you still level slower than a non-penalized class. You're right, though, in the sense that it penalizes the player most heavily for soloing.

In the end, I don't care about that. I do care about the significant and non-classic nuisance factor in that my wife's character constantly out-levels mine. I have to spend significantly more time than her online, and in some cases she suicides just to help us stay even. The best I can say is that I tolerate it.

Warriors appear to be on a separate damage table here. I cannot confirm, though.

Danth

[Jereziah]

Very well could be Halladar, but no one's outlined it sufficiently to walk away from the post yet. I also fear that hatred towards the thread in general could simply encourage a dev to state it's client-side, who knows if it's true or not though.

Speak of the devil [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Appreciate it Aeol, and no, to be honest I think most people have no clue what is editable and what is not, therein lies a vast majority of the 'ask for something but don't get it - then yell for not getting it' problem.

You guys have read the posts, you know how people feel about the exp penalties. We'll leave it at that. Thanks for the explanation - it helps.

[Aeolwind]

Originally Posted by Halladar [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

He said client wise, ie the part on your computer at home that came with titanium. It is compiled code, and I'm sure that while the devs for this project could give you a good idea of the basic operation, and what does what, no one involved with any of these emu things is making any change to the client on your home computer.

We aren't talking about spell icons, and spell windows and whatnot, or renaming zone files.

At least that is what I think he means.

Exactly, text files, UI files, Music files (to a degree), etc are not part of the source code itself for the client. Other files, like the sound files, can be renamed to return your old midi music & that is ok within reason.

[Halladar]

Originally Posted by Danth [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The penalty shouldn't go away in a group, it's just supposed to be shared. I don't know where some folks get the notion that the additional experience was drawn out of nowhere. Perhaps they can provide links? As described by Sony, penalized classes (not just hybrids--hybrids merely had the highest penalty, not the only one) simply received more experience per kill in a group. Even if you divide that 40% against the entire group, you still level slower than a non-penalized class. You're right, though, in the sense that it penalizes the player most heavily for soloing.

In the end, I don't care about that. I do care about the significant and non-classic nuisance factor in that my wife's character constantly out-levels mine. I have to spend significantly more time than her online, and in some cases she suicides just to help us stay even. The best I can say is that I tolerate it.

Warriors appear to be on a separate damage table here. I cannot confirm, though.

Danth

I'm sure you've seen this:http://everquest.allakhazam.com/edit...rs_letter.html

now the relevent part:

"This means that we must address the penalty differently: basically, for every kill, after all grouping bonuses and zone bonuses are applied, the experience will be split up according to level, rather than experience. For those classes that do not have a penalty, they will then be given that share. Those classes that have a penalty will get their share, multiplied by their experience penalty. Essentially we are creating extra experience to give to those with a penalty after everyone else has gotten their share."

Of course this is from 01. I thought it was from 99. (I started in fall of 99 I think. I know the rogue changes happened sometime after I started playing. I thought it was only a couple months, but my memory could be wrong).

[JohnPublic]

You need to apply the penalty to the group's exp as a whole like it was in the original game OR remove the penalties all together. Right now hybrids are getting the worst of both worlds and it is seriously affecting their numbers.

On a related note, are mage and necro pets taking their fair share of experience as they did in the original live?

[Danth]

Ah, I see what happened Halladar. The part you quoted was in reference to the functioning of the new XP system as implemented during 2001. This new system replaced the version which P1999 strives to emulate.

Here's an excerpt of the portion which discusses how the original system worked:
"As such, a level 20 Troll SK, having more experience total than a Human Wizard of the same level, would get more experience from each kill, while the total experience for the kill was unchanged. Essentially, the SK would take part of the Wizard's share were everything distributed equally to begin with. "

I am *told* pets do not eat experience on P1999. As I am not a pet class, I can neither confirm or deny this with any certainty.

Danth

[Aeolwind]

Originally Posted by Halladar [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I'm sure you've seen this:http://everquest.allakhazam.com/edit...rs_letter.html

Of course this is from 01. I thought it was from 99. (I started in fall of 99 I think. I know the rogue changes happened sometime after I started playing. I thought it was only a couple months, but my memory could be wrong).

Same, I started in Dec in 99. Was 47 when Kunark came out, and I'm CERTAIN hell levels were in, I spent 71 straight hours in the king room in solb to get through 45. The original inception was that Verant added up the groups XP pools (Hybrids had larger pools to fill), then dumped the XP into that pool then redivided it back into the players. So this made hybrids get "more" and other classes get "less". So a group full of halflings would smoke any other group, by a huge margin ((War, Rog, Clr)x2).

[Halladar]

Originally Posted by Danth [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Ah, I see what happened Halladar. The part you quoted was in reference to the functioning of the new XP system as implemented during 2001. This new system replaced the version which P1999 strives to emulate.

Here's an excerpt of the portion which discusses how the original system worked:
"As such, a level 20 Troll SK, having more experience total than a Human Wizard of the same level, would get more experience from each kill, while the total experience for the kill was unchanged. Essentially, the SK would take part of the Wizard's share were everything distributed equally to begin with. "

I am *told* pets do not eat experience on P1999. As I am not a pet class, I can neither confirm or deny this with any certainty.

Danth

yeah. I was wrong, I've quit and come back to this game too many times (though not very much the past 5years or so).

But I think a lot of people have the same impression I did, that even in this 1999 type era it comes out of nowhere. The years they run together.

But while this will help you and your wife Danth, I think if they enact things the way it worked in 1999, it will hurt hybrids with groups. WHile it is beneficial to group, groups are going to be less likely to invite one (unless there is no warrior available).

When I have a group I take whoever comes along. But a lot of people on this server have to have dps or this or that or a puller who can flop to the ground like he is dead.

(On live I saw a lot of classes that could pull, necros, enchanters, clerics, druids, monks, etc. Even mages could do the pet pull thing, and the rogues the "sneak" pull. What is the hairy big deal about it here? A warrior can usually do it fine if it isn't something that has to be split and he knows the zone and pathing.)

Basically:

1) If the xp comes out of nowhere, it will be like not having a hybrid penalty.

2) If more xp is just given to hybrids I think groups are going to be leery of taking them.