Spells: Shaman DoTs Not Stacking Correctly

[Castle]

I noticed in PvP I could not stack Plague with Scourge or Ebolt with Venom of the Snake.

In classic you could stack Sicken, Affliction, Infectious Cloud, Scourge and Plague all at once, as well as Tainted Breath, Envenomed Breath, Venom of the Snake, and Envenomed Bolt. All the disease stacked with disease. All the poison stacked with poison. And all poison stacked with all disease. This was the beauty of being shaman. Please fix this.

The lines that didn't work this way were the necro-only DoTs and I think the druids DoTs.

I am not sure about necros and druids, but having played a shaman I am positive they all stacked.

PROOF
http://web.archive.org/web/200203050...ll.asp?Id=1175

MY OPINION, By Ugol (1/28/2001)

I would remove the bit about this spell being good for use in groups. It is in my experience of limited value in groups, because MOBs rarely last long enough for this to do full damage. Better to use the mem space for something else. I use the L39 poison and L49 poison together and they often lasts for full damage in a group, so they are fast enough.
Having said that, I would say that disease DOTs are great for soloing.

And now for my rant (feel free to ignore). I have grouped with shamans that disease MOBs when in a full group and the MOB dies two seconds later from nukes and melee attacks.Sheesh.

http://web.archive.org/web/200107240...ll.asp?Id=1141

THIS SPELL IS NOT USELESS AS OTHERS MAY TRY TO TELL YOU, By Warwulfe (1/28/2001)

In group fighting, it is most assuredly useless. Solo, it is invaluable. You need every edge you can get, especially when solo'ing Hill Giants and high hit-point count mobs. If nothing else, simply pull with the spell. Assuming it takes 30 seconds to get back, it is going to take another minute or two for you and your pet to finish it. 500+ damage, even in 2 minutes, is nothing to shake a stick at. Consider that Drifting Death, a 34 druid spell, does about 350 damage in a minute. This gets you 250-280 damage a minute for two minutes, and one cast. I'll stack it with a poison spell or three any day of the week. FYI - Scourge used to do nearly, if not more than 1000 damage over the course of 7 minutes. Now THAT is useless, especially to a Shaman, a class that does not need to kite to kill mobs effectively.

http://web.archive.org/web/200201131...Id=1141&Page=2

WHY EB TILL 49???, By Nuuk warchyld (the sacred) rodcet nife (1/28/2001)

Mobs that are level 35 or so like, Dorfs, Ein, Guards etc.. have roughly 1700 hit points. Therefore after level 39 (Venom of Snake) an efficient mana way of killing these mobs is as follows: Lure with Scourge (550dmg), VoS(460dmg), EB(220dmg), ROOT, VoS(460dmg) after 42 seconds. Root to keep mob still to get full dmg from dots in. With out EB you would come up short about 150 dmg therefore having to waste mana on a blast that could get resisted or VoS which takes more mana than EB. With this series of spells you can get right till level 48 killing those mobs with minimal mana loss and downtime. and dont forget to med while waiting for mobs to die. I have used this method on dorfs and lose only 1 bubble of mana per mob i kill. I keep just ahead of 5 dorfs at a time. thats roughly a dorf ever 4 mins with almost no down time since i med between dots not fights. Try it it works great!

[DarthPeon]

You're wrong. Here is an original developer patch post stating so. These retards you quoted did not understand that their stronger dot was over writing the weaker one.



Uthgaard
03-07-2011, 08:32 AM
Working as intended.

What you had before, where every dot stacked with any other dot, was the bug.

http://www.project1999.org/forums/ar...p/t-28855.html

And here are the patch notes from Sept 4th, 2002 - When they allowed multiple classes the ability to cast the same dot and exceed the 15 stack limit. However as mentioned in the patch notes - that still not to mean inferior versions of the same dot stacking.


We've made two changes to the way spells stack.

Damage Over Time (DoT) spells are spells that linger on the target
doing damage. Until today two different characters could not have the
same DoT spell on the same target. As long as one copy of the spell was
active any new version of the spell would not take hold. After today
the same DoT spell cast by different casters can affect the same target
at the same time. Also, if you cast a DoT spell on a target and you
already have that spell active on it, the spell will refresh. (Note: It
will not be possible to stack Lifeburn).

This does not allow for inferior spells to stack along with superior
spells. (Example: Two Necromancers can both land Boil Blood on the same
target. However, Heat Blood, being an inferior spell, will still not
stack.)

Full patch notes below

http://everquest.allakhazam.com/hist...es-2002-2.html

[valithteezee]

Darthpeon shamans we're always an exception to the rule of dot stacking.

[DarthPeon]

Originally Posted by valithteezee [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Darthpeon shamans we're always an exception to the rule of dot stacking.

Woe the world and those special shaman who didn't get they were overwriting their dots. What part of this direct dev quote in regards to how all dots worked up to that point not clear?

This does not allow for inferior spells to stack along with superior
spells.

Here is a druid documented example of how dots stacked back then. Two different lines stacking - Like plague and ebolt for a shaman...

http://web.archive.org/web/200008221...ds.com/dot.htm

[Castle]

Here is a druid documented example of how dots stacked back then. Two different lines stacking - Like plague and ebolt for a shaman...

From these sources we know how druid DoT lines work and know how necro DoT lines work. You haven't provided the evidence against Shaman DoTs stacking. On the contrary I have proven otherwise above.

As I said their DoTs weren't "lines." Lines of DoTs were only accessible by THAT class and their hybrid if one existed. Only Druids and Rangers had their lines; Necros and SKs had their lines; For Shamans... Beastlords AND Necros all had some of their DoTs. Necros got Venom of the Snake(39shm) and later Envenomed Bolt(49shm), and Scourge(34shm) and Plague(49shm) later... Weird.. they didn't get Tainted Breath(9shm) or Envenomed Breath(24shm), or Affliction(19shm) or Sicken(5shm), nor did they get Bane of Nife(56shm) or Pox(58shm) in Kunark. Makes no sense, unless they aren't preset "lines." Also Necros got their own unique poison/disease DoTs. Poison: Chilling Embrace (34) and Poiso Bolt (4) Disease: Disease Cloud (1).

Was Disease Cloud in a line of DoTs? No.
Was Chilling Embrace in a line of DoTs? No.
Was Poison Bolt in a line of DoTs? No.

Notice, poison and disease DoTs are seen as individual DoTs, not lines. Doesn't make sense if they are sharing a "line" of DoTs for their spells to be this way, unique low level DoTs, share some mid-hi level DoTs, then nothing after that.

Your quote on inferior and superior dots are used as terms to refer specifically to predefined lines of DoTs. The only examples given by the Devs were druid/necros. Sure Dev quotes have more weight, but taking a Dev quote out of context means nothing.

You're wrong. Here is an original developer patch post stating so. These retards you quoted did not understand that their stronger dot was over writing the weaker one.

This is false in many ways.

1. Your DoT has worn off and your spell did not take hold messages were in in early 2001 when these sources posted.
2. You CAN tell the difference looking at mobs HP with 1 dot versus 2 dots even if there is no DoT-tic message
3. The story that follows shows that if the DoTs weren't stacking the mob couldn't have died. The guy is quoting exact numbers. Obviously he did his homework.
   
   

   Mobs that are level 35 or so like, Dorfs, Ein, Guards etc.. have roughly 1700 hit points. Therefore after level 39 (Venom of Snake) an efficient mana way of killing these mobs is as follows: Lure with Scourge (550dmg), VoS(460dmg), EB(220dmg), ROOT, VoS(460dmg) after 42 seconds. Root to keep mob still to get full dmg from dots in. With out EB you would come up short about 150 dmg therefore having to waste mana on a blast that could get resisted or VoS which takes more mana than EB.] With this series of spells you can get right till level 48 killing those mobs with minimal mana loss and downtime. and dont forget to med while waiting for mobs to die. I have used this method on dorfs and lose only 1 bubble of mana per mob i kill. I keep just ahead of 5 dorfs at a time. thats roughly a dorf ever 4 mins with almost no down time since i med between dots not fights. Try it it works great!

   Sounds like he knows what he's talking about. He even calculated how much HP the mob had left. If EBreath didn't land they'd still be alive with 1/2 bub of HP left, instead of dead. Pretty clear he calculated it.
   
4. You have provided no clear evidence to counter these clear claims

I rest my case. Please fix this Devs.

[gloinz]

2001 = not classic
shamans are already powerhouses id be one if i could b a dwarf shaman

[Castle]

Jan 2001 = 1 month after Velious was released.

Check patch messages from day 1 through Velious. There is nothing mentioned about spell stacking changing for Shaman DoTs. So we must assume Shaman DoT stacking remained the same. To believe otherwise we would need a reason. No patch message and no other archived posts = no dice.

In other words, FRAPs or it didn't happen.

[Doors]

Shamans should still be able to stack a disease and a poison dot. That is straight out of the Kunark strategy guide.

[Uthgaard]

Originally Posted by Castle [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[*]You have provided no clear evidence to counter these clear claims[/list]

The evidence was provided months ago, and your conclusion that shaman dots are not lines is absurd. They have a poison line and a disease line. Even your examples of the necro lines are incorrect. Your inability to operate the search function on the forums, or comprehend the topic doesn't require everyone else to rehash the discussion to satisfy your bellyaching.

[Castle]

Shamans should still be able to stack a disease and a poison dot. That is straight out of the Kunark strategy guide.

I think you missed it. I would be surprised if the Prima guide which was wildly inaccurate got anything right [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The evidence was provided months ago, and your conclusion that shaman dots are not lines is absurd.

Way to put up a link to proof bro.. wait... shit, where'd that thing go?

Uthgaard, a search revealed a few quotes of Devs promising to nerf DoTs and discussing them, but no hard evidence of it being classic. No quotes, no links, nada. You got a link? All I found is a general consensus druid DoTs shouldn't stack in the same line... and apparently shamans got swept into that as well, even though there is clear proof this was not the case in classic.