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Old 10-28-2014, 10:08 AM
Daldaen Daldaen is offline
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Default Stop the Socking

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Derubael wants us to stop the socking. What do you mean exactly?

As it stands to get FTE and stand a chance on most FFA mobs you need 1 mage 1 tagger minimum. If you don't consider this socking, then make a rule only 2 players allowed in zone when it spawns otherwise disqualified.

On certain mobs, to even stand a chance to get FTE with the current raidscape you need to sock.

Venril Sathir and Trakanon being the primary examples.

VS will have 2 trackers (1 Mage and 1 war/cleric/enchanter) plus several at entrance. Everyone that competes on this does it with a warrior wielding a Bladestopper who stalls (aka tanks and does 0 DPS to stay alive long enough til a raid force is there). This usually means you have a full group in zone. (Mage, cleric x 2, warrior x2-3, enchanter) This isn't a single guild doing it, it's multiple, and if you don't you stand no chance to kill VS.

Trakanon is even worse. They have 2 Mages down at poop mountain entire window ready to CotH down more Mages who then CoTH down more people, it's a big old sock fest and guilds without 2 Mages living on poop mountain stand no chance.

I feel like this is a simple fix. 2 in zone when it spawns, whether they be 2 trackers, a tracker and a tagger, or 2 taggers. Anything over that, is immediately unable to kill the mob. Anyone found socking outside the zone would also be disqualified. Aka don't set up your Trak CotH group at the orb or your VS CotH group in DL.
  #2  
Old 10-28-2014, 10:16 AM
arsenalpow arsenalpow is offline
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Not to rain on your parade but you're asking the hardcore raiders to fundamentally change the way they raid, and to completely change the culture of high end raiding that's been prevalent since the genesis of p99.

It's always an arms race and the fuel for this has always been the staff/devs who have plainly stated that they want to see competition. It's hard to have that platform and expect anything different from the playerbase. I don't personally subscribe to that playstyle but if you give a player the leeway he's going to do anything he can to maximize his pixel intake.

The alternative to this is the current class R rotation. We've successfully adopted a culture that's a complete 180 from how raiding on this server typically has been. Remove the FFA component, let class C gouge each other's eyes out if they want, and let the rest of the server rotate content so everyone can experience high end Everquest raiding.
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  #3  
Old 10-28-2014, 10:23 AM
Korben Korben is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Daldaen [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Aka don't set up your Trak CotH group at the orb or your VS CotH group in DL.
P99 needs black and white rules else people will habitually line step if there's any gray area.

Then again I think the habitual like steppers should just be outright banned, it's not like after 4 years of doing it they can maintain plausible deniability about the rules and what is right and wrong... even though that's the story every time.

Personally, I think 16 hour windows are a huge contributor to the issue, and it also puts the smaller guilds at a disadvantage when they have to muster a Trak force at 4:14AM, after having the majority of their guild on alert for 12+ hours leading up to it.

On to the real socking issue, spawns like VS are just an ugly nightmare, and like you said you get someone with FTE to stall until their 40 friends run in to take a shit on him... In that specific circumstance I don't even know why we don't just allow spawn socking and no window, just pop him on a known timer.
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Old 10-28-2014, 10:26 AM
Bboboo Bboboo is offline
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Never.

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Old 10-28-2014, 10:27 AM
Daldaen Daldaen is offline
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Can remove FFA if they want sure.

But that won't reduce poopsocking. Since it isn't generally Class R guilds doing that, though it sometimes is. Their eye gouging will just continue to be poop socking which will lead to longer variance which is retarded and not classic.

Something to make the poopsocking dissipate and the variance to be reduced would be ideal. No one wants to have shifts tracking for 96 hours again. That's dumb... Very very dumb.

I understand that the grey areas and limits of every rule will be pushed until a punishment is handed out and a line is drawn in the sand.

2 players in zone seems pretty clear. And punishment can pretty easily be handed out for breaking such a simple rule.

If you reduce variance enough limiting people to 2 per zone of tracking won't be a huge hindrance, people won't sock since many targets are spawning in overlapping windows which will spread people out and reduce petitions.
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Old 10-28-2014, 10:27 AM
fadetree fadetree is offline
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It is impossible to stop the socking. The nature of the game requires it. Change the nature of the game if you want to stop the socking.
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Old 10-28-2014, 10:29 AM
Ando Ando is offline
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Originally Posted by fadetree [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
It is impossible to stop the socking. The nature of the game requires it. Change the nature of the game if you want to stop the socking.
Maybe, but by increasing Variance they can make poopsocking a whole lot more painful which hopefully dissuades some people from doing it.
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Old 10-28-2014, 10:30 AM
Korben Korben is offline
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So, get ready to scream NOT CLASSIC, but the windows we have are totally not classic but... what if mobs like VS, Trak, even Sev perhaps, were just random on their respawn? They could respawn an hour later, 5 hours later, 4 days later.... with an upper limit on how long it could go between spawns? Extrapolate that across the number of possible targets available, maybe there's something to it?

I'm ready to duck the pitchforks.
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  #9  
Old 10-28-2014, 10:33 AM
Daldaen Daldaen is offline
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Originally Posted by Ando [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
Maybe, but by increasing Variance they can make poopsocking a whole lot more painful which hopefully dissuades some people from doing it.
Increasing variance just dissuades people from partaking in raiding period. Which isn't the goal.

No one wants to have to set up 12 different 8 hour shifts of tracking just to make sure you catch the NPC when it spawns.

Going to no respawns and just sim repops every week would be vastly superior method of removing poopsocking that doesn't rewuire you have people devote hours upon hours staring at pixels doing literally nothing other than hovering a finger over a batphone button.
  #10  
Old 10-28-2014, 10:33 AM
arsenalpow arsenalpow is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Daldaen [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
Can remove FFA if they want sure.

But that won't reduce poopsocking. Since it isn't generally Class R guilds doing that, though it sometimes is. Their eye gouging will just continue to be poop socking which will lead to longer variance which is retarded and not classic.

Something to make the poopsocking dissipate and the variance to be reduced would be ideal. No one wants to have shifts tracking for 96 hours again. That's dumb... Very very dumb.

I understand that the grey areas and limits of every rule will be pushed until a punishment is handed out and a line is drawn in the sand.

2 players in zone seems pretty clear. And punishment can pretty easily be handed out for breaking such a simple rule.

If you reduce variance enough limiting people to 2 per zone of tracking won't be a huge hindrance, people won't sock since many targets are spawning in overlapping windows which will spread people out and reduce petitions.
I honestly wish it were as easy as you want it to be, but consider some of these points.

-players camped in zone to avoid the footrace from the other zoneline, how is that policed?

-players bound in zone to avoid the footrace, how is that policed?

Each new wrinkle you add only complicates the amount of fraps/logs that must be kept to keep everyone playing nicely. The new rules themselves only moved the sock to the zoneline, it didn't change how people are actually playing the game.
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