Class defining epic

[nuuki]

What would you guys say is the most impactful epic in the game and why? How would you rate them all in order if you had to list them out?

1. Mage? The beast pet?
2. Monk? Crazy fists and haste?
etc. etc.
..
13. Enchanter? Buff basically as good as VoG? Who cares?
14. Necro? Free dot? So?

What do you guys think?

[Pint]

cleric obviously

[Ele]

Originally Posted by Pint [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

cleric obviously

[nuuki]

Yea I was trying to get at what changes the class fundamentally and sounds like Bard epic is probably it, though I don't really understand why. Isn't its multiplier weaker than some instruments? Can you layer in instruments on top of it?

Cleric epic seems one of the weakest from this perspective. All it does is save a bit of time and mana after a wipe doesn't it?

Rogue also seems pretty weak to me. There are weapons out there with basically the same ratio as the Ragebringer and haste items with almost as much haste, so all in all it doesn't seem to add much.

[Cecily]

Originally Posted by nuuki [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Rogue also seems pretty weak to me. There are weapons out there with basically the same ratio as the Ragebringer and haste items with almost as much haste, so all in all it doesn't seem to add much.

You don't understand rogues then. The answer is 40 atk if you were wondering why its so good.

[-Catherin-]

Bard epic provides a modifier that covers all instruments at the same time. even though the modifier is weaker it allows you to use every type of song under the sun without wasting time swapping instruments in and out, creating an incredible cumulative effect.

This also allows you to melee while still getting a great bonus from your songs, which brings into play the procing of the bard epic which is unique in itself. its a group haste proc that also adds atk that stacks and you cant get anywhere else.

Also bard epic is the only thing in the game that also increases your singing mod. If you look at the songs listed under singing only you will see that a lot of them are some of the best songs in the game.

It does not completely eliminate the need to use other instruments sometimes but it greatly cuts down on how necessary they are and because of that the class becomes a lot easier and fun to play

[Cecily]

Originally Posted by nuuki [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Cleric epic seems one of the weakest from this perspective. All it does is save a bit of time and mana after a wipe doesn't it?

If by a bit of time and mana you mean only 18,000 mana saved per 30 dead people, yeah it's not that great.

[zanderklocke]

Originally Posted by nuuki [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Yea I was trying to get at what changes the class fundamentally and sounds like Bard epic is probably it, though I don't really understand why. Isn't its multiplier weaker than some instruments? Can you layer in instruments on top of it?

Many songs have a singing modifier that is not affected by an instrument. The bard epic improves all songs that are singing only by 180%. Look at the bard list of songs: http://wiki.project1999.com/Bard
Any song that lists "Singing" next to it can now be improved 180% which might make these songs more effective than other instrument modified songs. Therefore, the bard has to rethink what songs are best to twist now. For example, on raids that require only MR, it's better to play "Singing" songs and not equip the drum and do percussion resist songs anymore. Another example, by twisting some DS songs, bard epic can easily have their group DS on players be over 50 damage. That's super helpful to a tank.

Furthermore, the epic proc is group buff that is:
Spell haste 55%
Str +30
Atk + 30 (this is the winning one which is awesome for rogue dps groups)

Once the epic gets switched to the modifier working in offhand in Velious, bards will be able to equip all useful instruments (horn, lute, and drum) in the primary slot and the epic in the offhand slot to maximize instrument/singing modifiers on all songs. This will be nuts in terms of how overpowered songs will be able to be.

[Crawdad]

Originally Posted by nuuki [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Yea I was trying to get at what changes the class fundamentally and sounds like Bard epic is probably it, though I don't really understand why. Isn't its multiplier weaker than some instruments? Can you layer in instruments on top of it?

Rogue also seems pretty weak to me. There are weapons out there with basically the same ratio as the Ragebringer and haste items with almost as much haste, so all in all it doesn't seem to add much.

Bard epic is important because its the only item until Luclin that modifies the Singing skill. It also acts as a weak (1.8) version of any instrument, but the singing is what matters.

Rogue epic will still be used far into Velious (I think its only sent to off-hand after NToV) because of its contribution to Dps.

Cleric epic seems one of the weakest from this perspective. All it does is save a bit of time and mana after a wipe doesn't it?

You're underselling it. There's a reason every guild wants every one of their clerics to be epic'd.

[Ele]

Originally Posted by nuuki [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Yea I was trying to get at what changes the class fundamentally and sounds like Bard epic is probably it, though I don't really understand why. Isn't its multiplier weaker than some instruments? Can you layer in instruments on top of it?

Cleric epic seems one of the weakest from this perspective. All it does is save a bit of time and mana after a wipe doesn't it?

Rogue also seems pretty weak to me. There are weapons out there with basically the same ratio as the Ragebringer and haste items with almost as much haste, so all in all it doesn't seem to add much.

Bard epic modifies Singing, which you can not replicate on any item. It also allows modification of any song without swapping instruments in exchange for slightly smaller boosts over the top end instruments. It does change the way bards approach numerous encounters and settings.

Cleric epic is basically a requirement of the class post 50, especially if you intend to raid at all. It isn't a little bit of time and mana, it is a ton of time and mana. It is the difference between a 45 minute recovery and a 5 minute recovery. Does it "change" the class? Not really, something they already do. Does it define them? Certainly.

Rogue epic is their strongest weapon in Kunark and provides easy 40% haste and +40 attack. The attack bonus doesn't get replicated (in near that amount) on any item in Velious or Kunark. Rogues are certainly defined by their epic in Kunark and it still has huge potential in Velious for a while.